Got Ripped Off By Thai Couple And Police

[udon]

10 years and you cant speak thai? LOL

Read the OP again. duh!

I lived in Pattaya ten years ago and liked it that much that I decided to come back.

[Johpa]

I had an accident in my car where the guy tried to say it was my fault.

I called the insurance and a "poo yai". If you don't even know what a "poo yai", and you live in Thailand, then I guess you deserve everything you get.

The wisest general advice I have seen posted in TV in a long time.

[LaoPo]

I had an accident in my car where the guy tried to say it was my fault.

I called the insurance and a "poo yai". If you don't even know what a "poo yai", and you live in Thailand, then I guess you deserve everything you get.

The wisest general advice I have seen posted in TV in a long time.

Maybe it's wise to inform the people who do not live in Thailand to explain?

LaoPo

[Johpa]

I know what a Poo Yai is, know of several, and make sure I avoid them at all cost. I don't associate with that kind of people and I'm sure there are many like me who don't want to be shafted, who want to see justice served without bribery and nepotism.

You clearly have no idea what a phuu yai is in the larger Thai cultural context. They are people who are respected and whose friendship you cultivate. An example of a phuu yai would be the local kamnaan. I suggest you get a copy of Niels Muldar's book Everyday Life in Thailand. You have much to learn about Thailand grasshopper.

[jdinasia]

lol .... I'll rush right out and buy a book ...... oh wait ... live here ... don't need to!

[Johpa]

Maybe it's wise to inform the people who do not live in Thailand to explain?

LaoPo

In brief, the phuu yai is someone with considerable respect in the local community. Traditionally, this implies a wealthy person or a large land owner, or at least wealthier or a larger landowner than the person seeking help as even your local phuu yai will have his phuu yai above him on up to His Majesty. (So if you think you are above cultivating a phuu yai relationship in Thailand then perhaps Thailand is not the place for you.) For tourists and some Farang ex-pats, your local consulate officer will often play the role of a phuu yai in a dispute. And to some extent, the insurance company is playing a phuu yai role in cases such as traffic incidents.

The phuu yai and the person asking for assistance form the basis of the "patron-client relationship" (Google it) that many have used to describe Thai society. You do some work for the phuu yai, whether it be labor or voting for his candidate, and the phuu yai will help you in time of need.

A phuu yai can range from the local village headman (phuu yai baan) or local sub-district head (kamnaan) to a local large landowner or factory owner, to any higher ranking bureaucrat (karaatchakaan). In the more modern city your boss or the company owner may serve as a phuu yai, and of course you never have enough Thai police friends as higher ranking police officers also can serve as a phuu yai. Disputes in Thailand are often solved by disputing parties by averring to the phuu yais. Phuu yais are even called in to propose marriage to a woman's family as a sign of respect.

As a Farang, I have found it easy to cultivate the friendship of the local phuu yais. Often the only thing they ask in return is a small gift (try a bottle of quality Tequila) from overseas when you return to Thailand from abroad and serve as novelties at their parties so they can show off they have farangs who respect them.

[Thaible]

These accusations of racism are silly.

Easy way to solve it? Marry another farang. Or be a farang woman.

You see, Thais here don't mind farangs per se. Thai men simply don't like the farang men who move here for the purpose of taking the women.

If you have kids, it helps somewhat since it becomes a more legitimate relationship versus visiting prostitutes. Thais have also never had anything against farang women. I have nothing against farang men coming here for the prostitutes, but I'm just telling you why Thai people don't like most farangs who move here for no other obvious reason.

[taxexile]

Easy way to solve it? Marry another farang. Or be a farang woman.

If you have kids, it helps somewhat since it becomes a more legitimate relationship versus visiting prostitutes.

when i read such moronic bilge and realise that it comes from the "brain" of a falang , then its

no wonder some thais think its easy to outsmart and take advantage of a falang .

have village idiots suddenly been given special visa status , because there seem to a lot of them about lately.

god help us all.

[Thaible]

Easy way to solve it? Marry another farang. Or be a farang woman.

If you have kids, it helps somewhat since it becomes a more legitimate relationship versus visiting prostitutes.

when i read such moronic bilge and realise that it comes from the "brain" of a falang , then its

no wonder some thais think its easy to outsmart and take advantage of a falang .

have village idiots suddenly been given special visa status , because there seem to a lot of them about lately.

god help us all.

Racism doesn't come from out of the blue. There's generally some truth to it.

If you don't believe me (but I think you do), try asking how many falang men here have more Thai friends that are female versus male. You'll find that most of their Thai friends are women, while in their homeland most of their friends were male.

Coincidence? Not likely.

Another way to check that I'm right? Simply ask any good Thai male friend. However, chances are that most falang men here don't have that many. BTW, I'm Thai, and while I'm friendly with some falang men (those who have a good job here and hence part of the reason to move here was career), I will absolutely never introduce them to any Thai women I know.

I also find it ironic that someone with the screenname "taxexile" would call me a moron.

Edited April 1, 2006 by Thaible

[jdinasia]

Thaible is Thai? hmmmmmmmm

but apparently this persona IS a racist!

I've never seen a Thai (particularly with that level of English skills .. spell Farang with an L ....

[RamdomChances]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in the heat of the moment it's easy to forget to do the right thing. The OP was ripped off (of course we only have his version) and the police coluded, which ever way you look at it, it's not good.

Ok he should of called his insurance, mabye being able to speak thai would of helped or him having some infulential friends. Trying to justify the scam by saying that it's his fault for not speaking thai or cultivating "puu yai" friends is a bit blinkered IMO.

What sort of percentage of Falangs can speak thai to the level that would really of been any use, I know this board has many.....but in real life how many have you met ? in all my years here I've only met a handful who I would even say speak reasnable thai (OK I dont meet that many people )

As for the "puu yai's" he's in Pattaya !! ...now I don't know any "puu yai's" from there, but a mate of mine used to own some buisinesses in Phuket and knew many there, mostly they were some of the most shallow and corupt people I've met in Thailand , its just that sort of place and I would assume that Pattaya is as well, mabye I'm wrong but the picture of a Pattaya "puu yai" just does'nt give me a nice warm feeling

Its easy for the "old hands" to sit back and say well "that could never happen to me as I speak fluent thai, know lots of big people ect" (obviously this could'nt happen to me as I can speak thai and do know lots of puu yai's ). I'm pretty secure here as I'm fairly well known, know lots of "puu yai's", although never really gone out of my way to cultivate any, just lucky that most of them are part of the family But the thing with puu yai's is that out of their immediate area of infulance they are'nt really much help so being friends with puu yai bann's, Kamnaan"s, oberdors, nai yok oberdors, nai ampurs ect would be of litttle help if I was stoped in Pattaya. The only exception to that is high ranking police (officer's) they just seem to have their own little fraternaty, your friendly officer talks to the officer at the station your at and everything just goes away (with in reason), but how many falangs get to meet higher ranking polkice out side of a buisiness enviroment, unless you are lucky enough to marry into a family that has some I'd say probaly not many.

Corruption here is endemic, I've been told by a police Captian that if he wanted a post in Pattaya he'd have to fork out the best part of a million bhat in "gift's" to secure the job. Even yor basic puu yai bann or oberdor has to spend a fair bit to get there. In the last oberdor elections, most of the candidates were spending around 100,000 on thier campain and a cousin of ours spent around a million trying to get the nai yok oberdor (boss oberdor) slot ( he lost , but he's a bit of a knob anyway ). As soon as they get elected they have to then try and get that money back , its a vicious circle, and that out here in the "stick's" I can imagine what its like in Pattaya

RC

[chuchok]

Easy way to solve it? Marry another farang. Or be a farang woman.

If you have kids, it helps somewhat since it becomes a more legitimate relationship versus visiting prostitutes.

when i read such moronic bilge and realise that it comes from the "brain" of a falang , then its

no wonder some thais think its easy to outsmart and take advantage of a falang .

have village idiots suddenly been given special visa status , because there seem to a lot of them about lately.

god help us all.

Racism doesn't come from out of the blue. There's generally some truth to it.

If you don't believe me (but I think you do), try asking how many falang men here have more Thai friends that are female versus male. You'll find that most of their Thai friends are women, while in their homeland most of their friends were male.

Coincidence? Not likely.

Another way to check that I'm right? Simply ask any good Thai male friend. However, chances are that most falang men here don't have that many. BTW, I'm Thai, and while I'm friendly with some falang men (those who have a good job here and hence part of the reason to move here was career), I will absolutely never introduce them to any Thai women I know.

I also find it ironic that someone with the screenname "taxexile" would call me a moron.

You are just as bad as the farang that make stupid generisations.

You would think by your post, that Thai men never visit prostitutes And that prostitutes are only here because of farang.

[RamdomChances]

If you don't believe me (but I think you do), try asking how many falang men here have more Thai friends that are female versus male. You'll find that most of their Thai friends are women, while in their homeland most of their friends were male.

I've got more Thai male friends than female ones...in fact I've more Thai male friends than Falang ones and I'm not even gay

RC

[Thaible]

You are just as bad as the farang that make stupid generisations.

You would think by your post, that Thai men never visit prostitutes And that prostitutes are only here because of farang.

While it's one thing for a Thai man to go down the street to visit a prostitute, it is quite another for a farang man to:

-move halfway around the world

-where they know no one

-abandon all friends and family

-do not speak the language

-take a 75% pay cut

-have no land rights

-need to make illegal visa runs

-to a country that is supposedly racist against farangs;

just to be able to frequent Thai prostitutes.

Hence, farang-farang couples and farang women won't experience the resentment than a single farang man or one with a Thai girlfriend will, since they are obviously here for very different reasons.

Farang-farang couples are usually here for a job transfer and farang women for community service or a new experience. Also farang men with great jobs/businesses get more respect since they are more likely here for career.

Thus there is no "racism" against farangs in Thailand since the resentment only applies to a very specific segment of the group versus the entire race.

Edited April 1, 2006 by Thaible

[jdinasia]

hmmm I have more str8 thai male friends than gay ones .... (but then again I'm Gay ... and have quite a few female Thai friends ....) But is I don't buy into Thable's story ... that point is moot

[LoveDaBlues]

Pal, you shoulda paid them off at the scene. That would have been the best $25 you ever spend to avoid all the aggravation that followed. Speaking Thai would not have helped you in the least here so pay no mind to that BS. They were out to get cash from you regardless. My advice to anyone in Thailand is do not own or drive a vehicle of any kind as it is just asking for problems. I never understand why anyone would do this. Transportation is so dirt cheap in this country that there is no need to drive yourself. Go with the Greyhound slogan and leave the driving to someone else and your life will be free of much aggravation. As for hanging in Pattaya, good choice; sack that car and hop in the 5 baht trucks. It's not like you live in issan or something where the nearest 7/11 is a thousand miles away. LOL

Abso-friken-lutely!! Aside from getting killed, the expense and the hassel of vehicle ownership is just not worth it. Take a taxi or better yet you can hire a driver and car in most places to be like a Chaffuer. MUCH cheaper than owning, insuring, etc;

What goofy posts. Vehicle ownership here is no more expensive than in the states. Actually cheaper as insurance cost is much less. And quality used vehicles hold their value better. Hassle to own a vehicle? In what way? I don't have any problems. You guys keep riding the 5 baht trucks......I'll stick to my A/C, music-of-my-choice, route-of-my-choice Fortuner.

[Kerryd]

Most of my friends here are Thai. I only know a couple of farangs casually, and 3 of them are guys I worked with in Afghanistan.

I primarily associate with the Thais from my neighbourhood. Ordinary, everyday people that work in laundries, tailor shops and restaurants. Great for learning the language and customs.

Back to the original topic.

Three days ago one of the girls that lives in my building ("Bo", the owner's daughter) was involved in an accident. She was waiting to turn off of #2 Road into Big C (Pattaya). While waiting for the traffic to clear, another car struck her in the side.

The other car was driven by an off-duty police officer. Bo figures he had just come out of a karaoke bar where he'd been drinking, and didn't turn sharp enough to avoid Bo's stationary car.

She had to go to the police station the next day and was basically told the officer wasn't at fault, and the repairs to her car were her responsibility !

And she is Thai ! At least they didn't make her pay for the damages to his car.

I didn't ask what kind of insurance she had, but I doubt it would be 1st Class in any event.

So it's not just farangs that get the short end of the stick. It's just that when it does happen to a farang, we all hear about it (here). We rarely hear about what happens to Thais in similar circumstances.

[The Coder]

I don't consider the police "colluded" in this case. It seems the police recommended both parties resolve their differences on their own, which due to the OP's negotiation skills, they did.

You do not need to speak Thai or know high ups to get out of a scam that you see coming. I would never willingly line the pockets of con artists to just get it over with. Just like i will never get in a taxi with a "broken" meter even if I have to wait all night for an honest one.

[Neeranam]

So it's not just farangs that get the short end of the stick. It's just that when it does happen to a farang, we all hear about it (here). We rarely hear about what happens to Thais in similar circumstances.

You're right there, why do you think most Thais hate the police.

Great posts by Johpa and RC about "puu yais" - explained very well

[Gary A]

I just paid my insurance on my Toyota four door four wheel drive. I bought first class insurance. First class is much more expensive than third party because there is no deductible for collision. Many people turn in every scratch. You DO have the option to reduce your first class coverage. My first quote came from the original insurer. 25,000 baht. I got a second quote from another agent and it was 18,200 baht for the same coverage. I then found an agent who knew what he was talking about and he told me if I wanted first class insurance at a lower price to reduce the coverage, I chose to have my vehicle insured for 350,000 rather than the 500,000 and the premium is 15,200. Some insurance companies are fly by night and you would have problems if you had a claim so look for a company that has been in business for a long time. An interesting note is that third party and first class have the same liability coverage. Third party costs about 4,000 baht a year.

I would strongly suggest that if you have a vehicle in Thailand to at least buy the third party coverage. That covers anyone you should hit and covers from 100,000 to 200,000 baht bail bond. The third party insurance on my Nissan has a 10 million baht limit per accident but no coverage for the Nissan itself. To be able to simply call the insurance company is reassuring. Speaking fluent Thai will NOT prevent you from being railroaded but since the insurance company is the one who has to pay they WILL protect you.

[Neeranam]

I pay 800 baht a month and they looked after me very well in my accident.

Could you tell more about the 3rd party insurance for 4000Bhat?

[Gary A]

I pay 800 baht a month and they looked after me very well in my accident.

Could you tell more about the 3rd party insurance for 4000Bhat?

The policy on my Nissan is from QBE Insurance Thailand. For strictly liability the coverage is 10 million baht per accident, 200,000 baht per person in excess of mandatory Thai insurance and 1 million baht for property damage. That premium is 3,616.32 baht per year. In addition to that I elected to add 50,000 baht per person for personal injury in my Nissan and bail bond at 100,000 baht. That was an additional 890 baht. When this policy expires I will change to LMG Pacific. It is cheaper and where I now have my first class policy. My first class from LMG (Liberty Mutual Group) has higher coverage for liability and bail bond too.

I was paying about $1,600 per year for a $1,000 deductible collision on a Honda Civic in California in 2001. Thailand seems much more reasonable to me.

[Neeranam]

Thanks for that - but I won't be going with LM as I am currently suing them!

[Maigo6]

You guys keep riding the 5 baht trucks......I'll stick to my A/C, music-of-my-choice, route-of-my-choice Fortuner.

Same here old chap, I love my Tuner too!

[taxexile]

Racism doesn't come from out of the blue. There's generally some truth to it.

there's hardly ever any truth behind racism , racism is pure hate , sometimes mixed with a little jealousy and a pinch of misguided patriotism, and if the reason for the racism this week is cavorting with prostitutes , then should all falangs here suddenly marry falang women or become orange robed monks the racists will quickly find another reason to hang their racist beliefs on before next tuesday afternoon.

thats the nature of racism , there doesnt have to be a reason . why do so many thais dislike the burmese , the indians , the laotians , the africans , and the chinese that are here.

If you don't believe me (but I think you do), try asking how many falang men here have more Thai friends that are female versus male. You'll find that most of their Thai friends are women, while in their homeland most of their friends were male.

it is far easier for men and women from different cultural backgrounds to form friendships (on any level) than it is for males from different cultural backgrounds.

for reasons that are beyond me i have rarely been able to engage in meaningful conversation with a thai male , unless that thai male has had lengthy exposure to western culture. our reference points are just too divergent.

its much easier talking to women here.

and what has racism got to do with the sex of ones friends anyway?

Another way to check that I'm right? Simply ask any good Thai male friend. However, chances are that most falang men here don't have that many. BTW, I'm Thai, and while I'm friendly with some falang men (those who have a good job here and hence part of the reason to move here was career), I will absolutely never introduce them to any Thai women I know.

why not ?

I also find it ironic that someone with the screenname "taxexile" would call me a moron.

why ?

[The Dude]

I pay 800 baht a month and they looked after me very well in my accident.

Could you tell more about the 3rd party insurance for 4000Bhat?

The policy on my Nissan is from QBE Insurance Thailand. For strictly liability the coverage is 10 million baht per accident, 200,000 baht per person in excess of mandatory Thai insurance and 1 million baht for property damage. That premium is 3,616.32 baht per year. In addition to that I elected to add 50,000 baht per person for personal injury in my Nissan and bail bond at 100,000 baht. That was an additional 890 baht. When this policy expires I will change to LMG Pacific. It is cheaper and where I now have my first class policy. My first class from LMG (Liberty Mutual Group) has higher coverage for liability and bail bond too.

I was paying about $1,600 per year for a $1,000 deductible collision on a Honda Civic in California in 2001. Thailand seems much more reasonable to me.

I'd hate to sell insurance in this country or buy it for that matter. I just don't have faith in institutions I took for granted in the US. I will continue to flag taxis, ride trains and pound pavement, thank you. I dont much care for aggravation. I scrapped numerous shovels just thinking about it. No can dig, dig?

[The Dude]

Pal, you shoulda paid them off at the scene. That would have been the best $25 you ever spend to avoid all the aggravation that followed. Speaking Thai would not have helped you in the least here so pay no mind to that BS. They were out to get cash from you regardless. My advice to anyone in Thailand is do not own or drive a vehicle of any kind as it is just asking for problems. I never understand why anyone would do this. Transportation is so dirt cheap in this country that there is no need to drive yourself. Go with the Greyhound slogan and leave the driving to someone else and your life will be free of much aggravation. As for hanging in Pattaya, good choice; sack that car and hop in the 5 baht trucks. It's not like you live in issan or something where the nearest 7/11 is a thousand miles away. LOL

Abso-friken-lutely!! Aside from getting killed, the expense and the hassel of vehicle ownership is just not worth it. Take a taxi or better yet you can hire a driver and car in most places to be like a Chaffuer. MUCH cheaper than owning, insuring, etc;

What goofy posts. Vehicle ownership here is no more expensive than in the states. Actually cheaper as insurance cost is much less. And quality used vehicles hold their value better. Hassle to own a vehicle? In what way? I don't have any problems. You guys keep riding the 5 baht trucks......I'll stick to my A/C, music-of-my-choice, route-of-my-choice Fortuner.

No problema master dude. You go ahead and do that w/the dude's blessing. Please be careful on the road w/all the psychos

[LoveDaBlues]

I dig that you don't personally dig vehicle ownership but can dig my digging of vehicle ownership........dig?

[Donz]

Lets all have a group hug,

Lifes a bitch, shit happends and you just have to deal with it. Its unfortunate this has happend to a nice guy.

Labeling people racists is racists in itself (sort of).

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

I had a similar situtation were my dad and I and his hoe for the day were in the central Pattaya hotel and they tried to over charge him for room service by attempting to charge us for some food that he never ordered. We flatly refused to pay, they brought out the server boy at first saying that if we did not pay it would come out of his meager salary. And we were like "And???" so seing that we were not about to fall for that old trick they called the police. The cop asked us to pay, we told him we did not order and we did not sign for it. He said pay or go to the station. So we said cool, lets go to the station. Well just as we were getting ready to go down to the station, get this, my Dad's Hoe paid the bill, 600baht! she didn't want to see us go to the station! First time I ever saw a bar hoe pay for anything, much less 600 baht!...

Either way we would have sooner paid 60,000 baht to a lawer than to pay a scamer 600. Just on GP. Had it been my car and as obvious as you said I would have never paid them sh*&... but then again I can speak fair Thai and would have called them on their "Tal'leh" Lao lao