Pattaya Estate Agents, money for old rope, Time to start Owners Co-Ops

[dotpoom]

I am delighted with the amount of feedback my post has generated, it has been very informative. It seems to me that it is beyond doubt now that Real Estate Agents here have an exceptionally low rating among the majority of posters here. It was my frustration with their performance that prompted me to start the post in the first place. I understand why some in the business took it as "Realtor Bashing". I myself do not see it that way....You remember the old saying...."cap fit....cap wear"....if the cap does not fit you then why get so annoyed....word of mouth on your performance will always protect you (or ruin you)

Rather than "bashing" I see it as the telling of the "facts" from the personal experiences of the contributors......I don't think anybody got on here to make up stories, which is a sad reflection on the service provided by the realtors. Those in the business who had objections to the complaints being made remind me of the Mother at her son's passing out army parade....."Why is my Johnny the only one in step" she asked....."Look how all the others are out of step" But rather than take these complaints on board and try to smarten up their approach I suspect...just as in politics...it will go in one ear and out the other.

I still think my idea of Owner Co-Ops has some legs. I myself have been self-employed all my life but it has been a one man show, so I honestly wouldn't know how to go about setting up a Co-Op, that end I would leave to those better qualified than myself in that area. Granted, there would be many hurdles to overcome but I have always relied heavily on the saying..."where's there"s a will.....there's a way".That was an excellent point made earlier on about one big obstacle...when a sale is made by a particular owner...wouldn't he just move on and cease to be involved...unlike Farmers....their participation is ongoing. I haven't got down to going through it all step by step in my head but in my experience I never let problems get in my way. "Necessity is the mother of invention"...a well founded truth.

Maybe I'm behind the times now...but I would have imagined that the "high street shops " are still the most popular method of purchases.for those who are new to a market in a foreign country...especially the head to head aspect of it...with a Co-Op even better as you are dealing directly with the owners who are simply trying to sell a property.....not also trying to make a 5% killing on top. (something tells me I'v left myself open with that last comment and a keyboard is heating up somewhere), anyway, I think most people know what I mean.

If nothing else was achieved by this post, at least it felt good to get it aired.

Edited June 17, 2013 by dotpoom

[gmac]

The "wasters" you refer to are obviously the "window shopping, time wasting so called purchasers", who have nothing better to be doing than swanning around, property gazing, to kill an afternoon......that problem has nothing to do with the complaints owners are talking about here...that is YOUR problem...and at the other end of the scale. Please don't try to involve us in it. Perhaps a small fee or something similar towards the expense of commuting them between properties might separate the men from the boys. We too have to put up with the time wasters. Now....when a person asks me over the phone before even coming to view the property "what's the lowest I'll take for it?".... I reply by telling them that after they have viewed the property, decided they like it and want to buy it, have enough money in their pocket to put down an initial small deposit (even 1,000 Bt) then I'll begin the "haggling" with them, guaranteeing them a fair price and hopefully a fair one for myself too. I can tell in a matter of seconds the genuine ones from the time wasters....so I no longer sit around with them after the viewing, having cups of tea and talking about the merits and de-merits of living in Thailand....I presume you can tell them apart too but I do realize you cannot turn them away on those grounds alone for fear you may be wrong.

PS, I knew an antique dealer at home who used to charge 5 Euro just to go into his shop....he too was probably sick and tired of the browsing tourists...he may have cut down the footfall into his shop drastically but at least he knew whoever came in were certainly genuine customers......sometimes I'm reminded of him and consider doing the same thing myself...just waiting a little longer to let the tolerance run out completely. Anyway, let's not take ourselves too seriously, As the man said ...."Don't bother taking off your coat....you won't be staying very long" ...Meaning....It's a short life for those who didn't get my drift.

Welcome to the world of sales, seems like most people in this post have never been in sales. Everyone is a potential client and should not be turned away. Window shoppers, browsers, etc., are all a part of the sales game and should not be taken lightly. The key is to sell them when they are in your store before they leave and if you are sure they are going to leave, let them go with a positive view of your abilities and your product whether it be houses, cars, widgets, etc. Piss them off and they will spread the word losing more potential clients. Just my opinion I could be wrong but always seemed to work for me and in my opinion this philosophy is universal.

Couldn't agree more. Never been involved in sales myself but have been a serial window shopper. I like to thoroughly research any new purchase I make which makes for a lot of 'time wasting' as far as sellers/agents are concerned BUT at the end of the day I am a serious buyer and remember where I have been well looked after when I am finally ready to buy.

[finnomick]

I would like to add something that I do not believe has been mentioned so far regarding the amount of ' work ' an agent will do to sell ones property. I wanted to sell my apartment in Jomtien. It was on the market for about a year, and before the agents bash me, it was advertised at less than what I paid for it some 5 years ago and I had spent several '00,000 baht on kitchen etc. I also have a friend who is an agent so he was one of the people through whom I tried to sell. He told me that there are so many new estates being built with ' move in for under a million baht ' with the developers offering commission on viewing ( not commission only on sale ) that they push these new developements before the private seller's property. So this could be one of the answers you are looking for Dotpoom.

......and just out of interest, it was an agent who actually bought my property

Edited June 17, 2013 by finnomick

[i claudius]

I was an agent in the UK for many years ,always the same whinges as from the op ,sell it yourself i say ,do the advertizing ,,legal work ,everything yourself if you do not like it . just stop complaining or as someone else said ,get a work permit ,hire a shop ,pay staff ,pay adertizing ,air con ,cars, petrol and work 70 hours a week . and get paid nothing for the 90% of houses you offer but never sell .

Sell secondhand cars and insurance as well if you need to boost your income. The OP is talking about Estate Agents here, having been a renter and property buyer here, I found the majority of the agents to be no more than Oxygen thieves, with one major exception. My last rental and the purchase of my present house were both done without the hindrance or 5% of a Chav salesman.

By the way I have to ask what legal work an estate agent does in the UK? I always hired a solicitor once the property had been advertised by the agents.

Many clients did not want to pay a solicitor either and that is what i was refering to , if an agent is an "oxygen thief" then do not use him ,simple , another thing i remember in the UK was an agent opening up and charging a small fee to put your house on his books upfront ,no extra charge when he sold it ,he went bust after a few months ,no one wanted to pay up front in case their house did not sell ,they wanted all the work for free if it was not sold. as to most sellers here in Pattaya having an inflated idea of how much their property is worth ,that accounts for about 95% of house owners here.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Rimmer
Quote fixed

[dotpoom]

Certainly a lot of food for thought in what you point out there....finnomick.

I would like to add something that I do not believe has been mentioned so far regarding the amount of ' work ' an agent will do to sell ones property. I wanted to sell my apartment in Jomtien. It was on the market for about a year, and before the agents bash me, it was advertised at less than what I paid for it some 5 years ago and I had spent several '00,000 baht on kitchen etc. I also have a friend who is an agent so he was one of the people through whom I tried to sell. He told me that there are so many new estates being built with ' move in for under a million baht ' with the developers offering commission on viewing ( not commission only on sale ) that they push these new developements before the private seller's property. So this could be one of the answers you are looking for Dotpoom.

......and just out of interest, it was an agent who actually bought my property

[dotpoom]

P.S.......I wonder the new property auctions that started yesterday will affect the market....any reports?

[dotpoom]

P.P.S....I should have added...it's 50,000 Bt. up front just to get your bidding No....but you do get it back at the end of the auction, or else it comes off the price if you bought. That's another way of sorting the men from the boys I suppose....

Edited June 17, 2013 by dotpoom

[Basil B]

The "wasters" you refer to are obviously the "window shopping, time wasting so called purchasers", who have nothing better to be doing than swanning around, property gazing, to kill an afternoon......that problem has nothing to do with the complaints owners are talking about here...that is YOUR problem...and at the other end of the scale. Please don't try to involve us in it. Perhaps a small fee or something similar towards the expense of commuting them between properties might separate the men from the boys. We too have to put up with the time wasters. Now....when a person asks me over the phone before even coming to view the property "what's the lowest I'll take for it?".... I reply by telling them that after they have viewed the property, decided they like it and want to buy it, have enough money in their pocket to put down an initial small deposit (even 1,000 Bt) then I'll begin the "haggling" with them, guaranteeing them a fair price and hopefully a fair one for myself too. I can tell in a matter of seconds the genuine ones from the time wasters....so I no longer sit around with them after the viewing, having cups of tea and talking about the merits and de-merits of living in Thailand....I presume you can tell them apart too but I do realize you cannot turn them away on those grounds alone for fear you may be wrong.

PS, I knew an antique dealer at home who used to charge 5 Euro just to go into his shop....he too was probably sick and tired of the browsing tourists...he may have cut down the footfall into his shop drastically but at least he knew whoever came in were certainly genuine customers......sometimes I'm reminded of him and consider doing the same thing myself...just waiting a little longer to let the tolerance run out completely. Anyway, let's not take ourselves too seriously, As the man said ...."Don't bother taking off your coat....you won't be staying very long" ...Meaning....It's a short life for those who didn't get my drift.

Welcome to the world of sales, seems like most people in this post have never been in sales. Everyone is a potential client and should not be turned away. Window shoppers, browsers, etc., are all a part of the sales game and should not be taken lightly. The key is to sell them when they are in your store before they leave and if you are sure they are going to leave, let them go with a positive view of your abilities and your product whether it be houses, cars, widgets, etc. Piss them off and they will spread the word losing more potential clients. Just my opinion I could be wrong but always seemed to work for me and in my opinion this philosophy is universal.

Well said RB.

Another pointer is many claim qualifications and trade associations.

• Just what qualifications and are they worth the paper they are written on? I remember someone who had business cards with NBDoA after his name. NBDoA stood for No Bloody Degree or Anything.
• Any trade association is only as good as it worst member, need I say anymore.

[SGD]

One of the once "premier" Pattaya agents was so honest that they used to "rent" down on their luck westerners trying to eke out life in Pattaya with a scam which saw this guy supposedly buy a property at say 2m and then sell it at 2.5m a couple of minutes later so that it could be show to the real vendor and purchaser that the buying price was 2.5m and the selling price was only 2m.

Of course, the only real sale was at 2.5m with the agent pocketing 500,000 minus a few beer vouchers for the willing intermediary.

As to raising commissions, then it will only continue as long as people are stupid enough to pay it. For instance, if it was fine 10 years ago to get 3% on a Bt1m house, why do you now need 5% when reselling that same house today for Bt2.5m ? So today you want Bt125,000 when Bt30,000 was fine before !!!!!

[norrona]

I used to be an estate agent in Pattaya for a good 8 years, started off working in the office opposite royal garden on 2nd road, I can't speak for the agents now but I would say it must be even harder now with the internet and all the info it has to offer, the clientele coming through the door (russian-indian-chinese) and rising costs in the town for office etc.

I had experiences where I visited peoples property to list it and when I put a value on it basis what had been sold in there recently the owners would get offended and insist it should be listed higher! What kind of incentive is that really? I was there to sell their property get paid not massage their ego about their place that they had decorated to their taste and put so much into the extras and paid the high price where their missus had sorted it all out and not bargained (why would she when it's not her money) they expected it back plus profit....

Then there was the time wasters which come with being in a tourist town, the usual types were the ones who came into the office to buy and could never tell you how much they had for a budget, had been there for a while holidaying and coming to the end of their trip and were going home so just wanted a look to see what they could get for their money and were looking to purchase next trip...blah blah blah!

Owners who when you took a potential client to their property would not shut up and ruin the experience/deal or even worse slip the client their details and tell them to call them direct for a 'special' deal cutting the agent out (caught loads doing that)

So the above is just a very small fraction of what goes on in that business, you have unscrupulous agents, unscrupulous sellers and yes unscrupulous buyers.....

This thread was opened about a moan on 5% commission mainly..... It is not a surprise commission that you find out when they get a buyers is it? It is spelled out to you from the get go so you got 2 choices, agree and let them do all the hard work for you to find a buyer or sell it yourself.......if it were me I would be doing both and just be happy you get to sell your property in a town where development and new properties with payment plans are your enemy and factor in their 5% on your sale price!

Good luck

[Asianrider]

Agents arn't the reason!

Developers offer commisions from 5-12% to shift property as quick possible.

Thats the reason!

What many buyers don't realise is that on new projects is they can often get a better deals through Agents

than going direct esspecially the smaller agenencies can share comission to close a deal.

On resale houses most owners slap 20-30% on the resale value anyways which makes them dificult to shiftl,

plus they don't take care.

Too many agents in this town focussed on off-plan sales which offer fatter commissions.