Corporal Punishment ReVisited:

[BruceMangosteen]

Corporal punishment is alive and some, especially those from
surrounding countries, attempt to copy Thai teachers and spank the kids
with bamboo sticks. At my school, even the Thai's have curbed their use
of sticks and the one foreigner was told to cease several years ago. A
smart phone with a video recorder certainly curbs it as well. Whenever
I see these monsters hitting children I start filming and they know
they are risking their retirement. When asked, I simply say "Bangkok

has requested I send them videos".

I pasted this here in a new discussion. As younger teachers continue to replace older ones I find there is much less use of sticks by same. The males tend to think again they are able to make said judgments and seem actually proud to carry a longer stick to class. As mentioned above, when photographed with a stick they sort of look at themselves as what they are IMHO. If you can't motivate your children without a stick you are in the wrong profession. With the recent comments from the M.of Ed. head about style of teaching it will only be a matter of time before he outlaws use of sticks completely. I might add and ask, why would a Thai teacher hit an M.6 student on the last day of school as I witnessed last year? What are you thinking I asked her? Do you think he's going to carry that bit of teaching or the "lesson" in pain with him into a University and adulthood? I answered myself, telling her he's not learning anything by it and most likely will despise you for the rest of his life.

[elgordo38]

I am 75 and what worked for me was "Spare the rod spoil the child" I turned out OK. Talking to most of todays children seems to be an excersize in futility. We were raised to obey work hard to succeed. Now everything is fast tracked for the sake of greed oh well the better years were mine to enjoy.

[SlyAnimal]

For me, what is right or wrong, is generally what is written in the law.

Therefore, as it's against the law to hit students, I don't condone it, and think that it's wrong (particularly for a teacher), to do it. As a teacher should be a role model. So if your role model breaks the law, what does this say about what you should do? In much the same way, as if your teacher or parents don't wear a helmet on their motorcycle, or don't stop at a red light, what will this teach you about what is right and wrong in the world?

My personal view, is that the corporal punishment could be a very useful tool to have at your disposal. However, only when used wisely for students who don't respond to other methods of punishment. As much as anything, you need something which can scare them, something which is on the horizon.

Being yelled at loses it's effect if a student is used to being yelled at

Being told to do extra lines or homework etc doesn't work if they aren't going to bother doing it.
Being told to stand up, or stand at the door still allows the student to try and distract their classmates with funny faces etc while the teachers back is turned

Being told to stand outside the class or similar stops them from disturbing other students, but it also stops them from being able to learn.

Being asked to do something at lunchtime/afterschool/weekends isn't scary if you have no intention of doing it

Being suspended from school is just a free holiday for many students.

Being expelled from school might scare them if they think their parents will care, but isn't particularly daunting if you're not too fussed and your parents don't care either.

Failing the class doesn't have much effect, since the school will probably change the student's grade to a pass anyway.

Failing the year, and having to repeat it because the school won't change the student's grade, might scare them, but it'll probably just have the same effect as expelling them.

Failing a student, or expelling them, is also very permanent. It's a huge blemish on their record, and will usually hinder their ability to learn more in the future. To me this is the absolute last resort, as it's not really helping the student, just teaching them a very harsh lesson, which they probably won't understand until they are older and regret not having an education.

Instead, a tool like corporal punishment, gives teachers a way to scare/intimidate/punish the particularly disrespectful students, which they learn the lesson from instantaneously, but without any permanent effects.

Although as with any punishment, the thought of the punishment is more effective than the actual punishment itself. Which is why, it would need to be reserved for special cases only, to keep the mystique about it. I think that this is essentially why it was abolished, not because it was brutal etc, but because it became ineffective because too many schools employed it's use as their first answer to a problem, when it should be used as a last resort when all other methods failed. As it if it wasn't used as often, then it wouldn't have been seen as something which was brutal or barbaric, but rather as something which was a last resort.

At least that's my 2c anyway, I grew up without corporal punishment in schools. Although my mother was very firm at home, now in NZ they've even outlawed "smacking" of children by their parents, I understand that there are other ways to punish children, and agree that they should be used, but find it unfortunate that just because some people went a bit too far (And the law found it too difficult to define "fair use" or "reasonable force" etc), that these tools are now forbidden to law abiding citizens/schools (And the ones who did take things too far etc, probably still continue doing what they're doing regardless).

[phosphorescent]

If a kid is misbehaving or not working in my class, I don't punish him/her individually. Instead, I punish the whole class. I explain to them at the beginning of each year that they need to work as a cohesive unit and help each other. I tell them that if one student is misbehaving, it's a reflection on the rest of the class doing nothing to help that student improve and change his/her ways. Weakest link in the chain kind of thing.

Many kids don't care if the teacher looks down on them but every kid wants and needs friends. The fear of being ridiculed and looked down on by their classmates is a much more effective persuasion tool than a beating. Using the students' peers to correct their behavior leaves me with almost no behavioral problems in class and I have never had to raise my voice to get a point across. I make it clear that kids can choose to talk, play and do whatever they want in my class as long as they accept the fact that their classmates will pay the price. They always make the correct decision which leads to very productive classes and no headaches at the end of the day for me. I've found that consistency and treating the kids with respect is the key to successful discipline even in the toughest of classes.

I've been teaching for 14+ years and still love the job which I attribute to effective class control.

Although I have never needed nor wanted to use corporal punishment, I believe there is a place for it so long as it is used extremely sparingly and only in specific circumstances after all other avenues have been exhausted.

[culicine]

A few pointers here -

Since 2005, corporal punishment has been against the law - even 'soft' hitting is not allowed.

Parents cannot give the school permission for their child to be struck. Kids can get verbal reprimands, sent from the classroom, suspended, etc, but not hit.

In the event that a teacher is caught doing this and reported to the police/MoE, only the teacher is in trouble, not the Administrator/Director.

Given the continual use of corporal punishment, I really wonder if Admin is just condoning hitting; just turning a blind eye as they know it's not the school that will be in trouble (only their reputation will be tarnished).

To me, if students are really that badly behaved, teachers need to be looking at their lessons and classroom management techniques. There are a lot of things that can be done - hitting isn't one of them.

[BruceMangosteen]

A few pointers here -

In the event that a teacher is caught doing this and reported to the police/MoE, only the teacher is in trouble, not the Administrator/Director.

Given the continual use of corporal punishment, I really wonder if Admin is just condoning hitting; just turning a blind eye as they know it's not the school that will be in trouble (only their reputation will be tarnished).

Good morning. My understanding is that only the parents can report incidents of child abuse which corporal punishment is, to the police. Informing the MoE has been proven to be a waste of time. They do nothing. As for the school getting in trouble, this represents loss of "face" and that is more important in Thailand than laws and child abuse being curbed and/or eliminated.

Over the weekend I heard a story of guards being allowed to hit students during assembly in the morning. Mostly but not limited to students arriving to school late.

Just yesterday I personally observed a very attractive lady in her mid to late twenties going to class with a stick in hand. It was a disgusting sight and she knows not IMHO how stupid she looks.

[Loptr]

A few pointers here -

Since 2005, corporal punishment has been against the law - even 'soft' hitting is not allowed.

Parents cannot give the school permission for their child to be struck. Kids can get verbal reprimands, sent from the classroom, suspended, etc, but not hit.

In the event that a teacher is caught doing this and reported to the police/MoE, only the teacher is in trouble, not the Administrator/Director.

Given the continual use of corporal punishment, I really wonder if Admin is just condoning hitting; just turning a blind eye as they know it's not the school that will be in trouble (only their reputation will be tarnished).

To me, if students are really that badly behaved, teachers need to be looking at their lessons and classroom management techniques. There are a lot of things that can be done - hitting isn't one of them.

We live in an age where laying a hand on a child is considered a crime. Children realize this and push the limits of your patience, trying to evoke a response because they know you cannot hit them. So, you have to find a way to instill fear and respect in them another way.

There are other ways to punish a child besides hitting them. One way is to simply stand the child in front of the class, tell them to hold their arms straight out from their shoulders and to stay like that. Trust me, after one or two minutes, they will be begging to quit. It not only has the desired effect on the child being punished, but will also send a message to the rest of the class.

I was also raised during a time where you respected authority or else. If you knowingly crossed a line, you got your ass beat. It taught me self discipline and to respect authority.

[phosphorescent]

Many people assume that corporal punishment is a barbaric thing of the past. Well, It may surprise many of you to learn that it is still legal in America!

It is legal in the home in every state and 19 states still allow it in schools.

As for Thailand, It is prohibited in schools but still legal in the home.

Below is a link that shows which countries do and don't allow corporal punishment.

http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/progress/table_q-t.html

Edited June 19, 2013 by phosphorescent