I am an alcoholic - well, sort of.....

[corkman]

Hi everyone,

I believe I am an alcoholic. But I am not sure if there are different types of alcoholic?

I mean, I can go weeks at a time without drinking - I don't "need" a drink. I do not drink at home. But any excuse to go out drinking, and I am there. My "problem" is that when I start, I cannot stop. If I went for a beer after work, I would continue on drinking with anyone that will participate, until 2,3,4, or even 5am. I don't get hangovers. I don't feel sick. Until recently, I never had any (additional) behavioural problems such as fighting or aggresion, but the latter is slowly creeping in and I am scared of that!!!

So, I have started to read up "alcoholism", but it seems that most of the information out there is directed at "dependance" or "addiction". As such, I do not fee "addicted" to alcohol - but maybe I am and I just don't realise it. I do not have cravings for a drink - I have never felt like I "need" a drink. I don't have a drink to "steady my nerves" or any of those stigmas. For me, I just don't want to miss out on the party.

So I ask, are there different types of alcoholism and if so are there different approaches to beating the issue?

So I be saying "I will never drink again"?

I am not a spiritual person, so putting faith in a higher power is not for me really.

Please note anything I have written here I am expressing as an idea, not fact. I stand to be corrected on any, or all of it.

Thanks in advance.

[slipperylobster]

You and I share this same problem. No withdrawals because I refuse to drink every day. But after a week or two I have an urge to go out on a binge. It is alcohol abuse..of course. I push myself to the limit, defying the odds of getting into trouble and telling myself I am in control. Problem is, nobody understands what the heck I am talking about after about 5 large leos. (Neither do I). I am healthy and coherent at all other times. Take a non drinker with you to keep you out of trouble...it will catch up to you.

[I Like Thai]

You're just a typical Irishman. We are all the same. I drink about once every 2 months nowadays. But still binge when I do. It's just the way we learned to drink growing up.

[impulse]

I keep going back to my old standard:

If drinking is causing problems in my life, I have a drinking problem. Simple as that.

Getting caught up in semantics can be deadly if it keeps people from getting treatment they need.

My favorite (dark) joke is about the widow at the funeral of her husband that just died of cirrhosis of the liver. When asked if her husband ever tried AA, she replied, "He wasn't that bad off"

You and I have a similar relationship with Vitamin A (alcohol). I could stop whenever I wanted, and stay stopped for as long I wanted. In my case, I just could not predict what was going to happen after the first drink. I may stop at one, or I may stop next Tuesday or when the ATM card quit working.

If you can drink and it causes no problems in your life, enjoy. The vast majority of people are that way.

If you want to try not drinking for a day or two (and enjoying not drinking, BTW- in my case, since 1988), we have a seat warm for you.

Edited June 15, 2013 by impulse

[corkman]

Thanks everyone.

I really like "If drinking is causing problems in my life, I have a drinking problem." So true. I mean even "normal" guys get an ear-full once in a while from their Mrs. - but when it gets to the stage that every "episode" ends the same way (excess and bad behaviour) then you gotta admit you have a problem.

What have you guys done to deal with your issues? Do you keap a diary, or blog, or whatever? Do you in some way "monitor" your progress, set goals and targets, etc.?

Personally, I socialise a lot. That is in part a work obligation, but mostly through choice. I am a very social person and do not want to give that up. I think I can continue to socialise in the same circles and do the same things, just without alcohol...... I'd appreciate peoples thoughts and feedback on that. All my friends are good people - I am the only one in the "group" with a problem, and they will support and encourage me to not drink. There will be no negative peer pressure.

[gerryBScot]

This is a mind boggling issue and I understand you are in a difficult place with this kind of debate going on in your head.

I would describe myself as a binge drinker when I was drinking....that's a few days ago now. I didn't drink every day. Yet today I understand how drinking controlled me and at the end it never provided me with "joyous intimacy with friends", relaxation, happiness, conviviality. Easier and safer to stay home with a bottle than go out - I didn't want company anyhow. I wanted to get drunk when I drank and I wanted to get there rapidly! With the benefit of hindsight I can see how my drinking just got worse and more importantly I understand I will never be able to drink differently. Once I take that first drink I am off.

I ended up in AA and I haven't had a drink in over 10 years. Life has changed a lot, mostly for the better. I don't regret quitting and don't miss anything about drinking.

QUitting drinking is an option and might be a good one for you Corkman but I really don't know. Nobody can tell you except yourself. Be wary of those that tell you that you're not! I am Scots Irish and I used to tell myself my drinking was cultural! I used to tell myself I wasn't an alcoholic too.

Hang around, keep an open mind, think it through, talk to your doctor or some one you trust - if you do think you have a problem, don't debate it too long, get some help. There are a number of options.

Good luck.

[ChinChanGamble]

Ha, I have this very same conversation with myself after a 'session'. I don't drink as much as I used to, due to not being able to afford it like I used to. Before I would have drank maybe three or four times a week, but would not necessarily be drunk on all or even any of the nights. In my head I put it down to that I used to socialise a satisfactory amount! Now I get out twice a fortnight, once on payday and one other night, but have the same problem, once I start it's hard to stop, and again I believe this is to try and satisfy my need for what I have missed the other nights. I wouldn't say you are an alcoholic, but perhaps try and distinguish what will satisfy your need over a week, fortnight or month, and know that just because you're out one night, there is another night to look forward too not so far away!

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[mrjon]

First the man takes the drink and then the drink takes the man, it's that simple, ben there done that.

[ChinChanGamble]

Awww no, it's happened again!

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[Mobi]

Similar questions have come up before in this forum. Many people, me included, would say that anyone who is a serious binge drinker is an alcoholic every bit as much as the alcoholic who needs to drink every day.

Not everyone will agree with this, and they are entitled to their opinions, but certainly AA would say that a man with your ‘symptoms’ is an alcoholic.

I have noticed that quite often women tend to be binge drinkers, as opposed to every day drinkers, but it doesn’t mean that they are not alcoholics.

Booze is a funny old thing ,as I’m sure you already know.

You say you can stay off the booze for long periods of time without feeling any cravings, but it may surprise you to learn that nearly all alcoholics can do something similar if they really put their minds to it.

Us alkies can all tell of the days, weeks, months and even years when we haven’t touched a drop and then one day we relapse. It seems to be the nature of the addiction that we can stop without too many noticeable effects yet before we know it, we are back drinking again – often worse than before.

No two people are the same.

I think you will find that most binge drinkers, over time, will indulge in ever more frequent binges, and many will eventually end up as a common to garden drunks– drinking every day.

This process may take years.

It s is good that you have recognised that you have a problem and I suggest that you take some action to rectify your dilemma before it gets too bad.
AA can certainly help – free of charge – and you don’t have to believe in a higher power to get their good advice.

Other than that, counselling or simply try to stay away from situations that may lead you to going on a binge and see how you get on.

Good luck.

[Scotswahay]

Be careful my friend! My Ex wife only found out I was an alcoholic when I came home sober one night

[Neeranam]

What do you mean - "I am not a spiritual person"?

My test for whether or not you are an alcoholic - have 1 drink when you wake up - stop until lunchtime. Have 1 more. Then have another 1 at 6pm. Go out at night and don't drink. If you can do this then you are definitely NOT an alcoholic.

Alcoholics develop cravings, roughly 20 minutes after taking a drink. These get progressively worse as you get older.

[Mobi]

What do you mean - "I am not a spiritual person"?

My test for whether or not you are an alcoholic - have 1 drink when you wake up - stop until lunchtime. Have 1 more. Then have another 1 at 6pm. Go out at night and don't drink. If you can do this then you are definitely NOT an alcoholic.

Alcoholics develop cravings, roughly 20 minutes after taking a drink. These get progressively worse as you get older.

One of the strangest posts I have read in quite a while.

Who on earth, other than an alcoholic, would dream of having a drink when he wakes up?

Your test is bizarre to say the least.

as I have already said in this thread, no two alcoholics are the same, and there are many, (me included in my drinking days), who could pass your test with flying colours. Sure there are some who would fail, but that doesn't make them any more - or those who pass - any less of an alcoholic.

Ultimately, alcoholics who can pass your test, for several days, or even for weeks in a row, will eventuality succumb.

The tick box lists provided by AA and other help groups are the most accurate guides to whether or not you have a serious problem with alcohol, not some weird test that only proves how much will power you may have on a particular day (or days).

Anyway, that's my opinion.....

[Neeranam]

What do you mean - "I am not a spiritual person"?

My test for whether or not you are an alcoholic - have 1 drink when you wake up - stop until lunchtime. Have 1 more. Then have another 1 at 6pm. Go out at night and don't drink. If you can do this then you are definitely NOT an alcoholic.

Alcoholics develop cravings, roughly 20 minutes after taking a drink. These get progressively worse as you get older.

One of the strangest posts I have read in quite a while.

Who on earth, other than an alcoholic, would dream of having a drink when he wakes up?

Your test is bizarre to say the least.

as I have already said in this thread, no two alcoholics are the same, and there are many, (me included in my drinking days), who could pass your test with flying colours. Sure there are some who would fail, but that doesn't make them any more - or those who pass - any less of an alcoholic.

Ultimately, alcoholics who can pass your test, for several days, or even for weeks in a row, will eventuality succumb.

The tick box lists provided by AA and other help groups are the most accurate guides to whether or not you have a serious problem with alcohol, not some weird test that only proves how much will power you may have on a particular day (or days).

Anyway, that's my opinion.....

Mobi - if someone wants to find out if they are an alcoholic or not, it's a small price to pay. But ok, lets say have the first drink at lunchtime. Have another drink at 6pm. Then go out in a social situation where there is alcohol offered but you can say "no thanks" and drink a cup of tea or whatever. If you can do this then by definition, you are not an alcoholic. After the first drink an alcoholic develops a craving for another. So two alcoholics are the same in this respect.

I probably know more alcoholics than you and none of them could pass this test.

I find it bizarre that you say you are an alcoholic and could control your drinking. Maybe you are an alcohol abuser, which is a completely different thing.

Once you have alcoholism, it doesn't just appear on some days, it is permanent everyday.

[Issangeorge]

Corkmam, these days I drink about once a week with my friends. We get together for dinner and then go out to a karaoke place and have a few drinks. Most of my friends drink at dinner and at the karaoke. I drive and don't want to take a chance at having an accident, so at dinner I drink soda and lemon and ice, a very nice drink. At the karaoke I have one large beer, maybe two if we are there for a long time. If we are there any longer I switch back to soda. Every once in a while, maybe 6 to 7 times a year, when I'm not driving I may have 3 or 4 large beer. Doing this I find I enjoy drinking much more, and have it under control without quitting altogether, you might want to try something like this.

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[Chris Lawrence]

Another test is when the cost of a carton of beer is more than the cost for the day/night. That is are you getting locked in goal, smashing the house/car/wife/kids, your health is affected, etc.

Go along to a few AA meetings and just listen; if you can relate to the stories in the AA meetings, maybe there is a problem?

I have seen a lot of people challenge their drinking, but only you can say if you have a problem.

Go and talk to a social worker in the hospital; you may get some insight into yourself.

TV sometimes can just play with your head as you may pick the answer you want.

Get an objective view to what you think your problem may be. Something in your mind may be triggering these drinking episodes, again that is a area a professional should help with.

[Mobi]

What do you mean - "I am not a spiritual person"?

My test for whether or not you are an alcoholic - have 1 drink when you wake up - stop until lunchtime. Have 1 more. Then have another 1 at 6pm. Go out at night and don't drink. If you can do this then you are definitely NOT an alcoholic.

Alcoholics develop cravings, roughly 20 minutes after taking a drink. These get progressively worse as you get older.

One of the strangest posts I have read in quite a while.

Who on earth, other than an alcoholic, would dream of having a drink when he wakes up?

Your test is bizarre to say the least.

as I have already said in this thread, no two alcoholics are the same, and there are many, (me included in my drinking days), who could pass your test with flying colours. Sure there are some who would fail, but that doesn't make them any more - or those who pass - any less of an alcoholic.

Ultimately, alcoholics who can pass your test, for several days, or even for weeks in a row, will eventuality succumb.

The tick box lists provided by AA and other help groups are the most accurate guides to whether or not you have a serious problem with alcohol, not some weird test that only proves how much will power you may have on a particular day (or days).

Anyway, that's my opinion.....

Mobi - if someone wants to find out if they are an alcoholic or not, it's a small price to pay. But ok, lets say have the first drink at lunchtime. Have another drink at 6pm. Then go out in a social situation where there is alcohol offered but you can say "no thanks" and drink a cup of tea or whatever. If you can do this then by definition, you are not an alcoholic. After the first drink an alcoholic develops a craving for another. So two alcoholics are the same in this respect.

I probably know more alcoholics than you and none of them could pass this test.

I find it bizarre that you say you are an alcoholic and could control your drinking. Maybe you are an alcohol abuser, which is a completely different thing.

Once you have alcoholism, it doesn't just appear on some days, it is permanent everyday.

Err... if you don't think I am alcoholic, read my blog back in 2009 through to the end of 2011 when I finally managed to quit for good. If that isn't the saga of a full blown alcoholic that all but drank himself to death, then I don't know what is.

I have been drinking with alcoholics all my adult life, and I attended AA meetings on daily basis for more than 2 years. I personally know of at least 3 friends in recent years who have died as a result of alcoholism. Two of those three were able to stop drinking for varying lengths of time before relapsing. The third one never stopped.

I think I do know a thing or two about alcoholics and alcoholism.

Yes, there are alcoholics who can never stop - even for a day . Most of these have no desire to ( they don't care) and some even deny that they are alcoholics.

But there are others - and I have met many, both in and out of AA, who admit they are addicted and may make efforts to quit. Some of these succeed for a while, as I have written about in my previous post, but generally they succumb in the end.

Personally, whenever I tried to cut right back - along the lines of your 'test', I could do it for a while, and then one day I would get blotto and I was back to square one. The only way for me, as it is with all true alcoholics, is to quit for good. This is why I don't think your so-called test works.

No one knows about alcoholism quite like an alcoholic - which is why AA can be so effective.

Are you one?

But we are all entitled to our opinions...

PS - yes you are correct - 'Once you have alcoholism, it doesn't just appear on some days, it is permanent everyday.'

Never was a truer statement made. Even after 2 1/2 years, I still crave alcohol. It will never go, but I have learnt how to deal with it.

The greatest motivation for me to stay sober is the sure knowledge that as soon as I pick up that first drink it is curtains for me.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Mobi

[joeaverage]

great, the old i'm a bigger alecart than you debate.

neernam has been reformed longer, but my understanding is he sank well and truly into the gutter.

nobody cares which of you was/is worse.

btw mobi, you are agreeing that his test is valid.

if you are not an alcoholic stopping is not a problem.

if you know you are an alcoholic, you dont need the test.

Edited June 25, 2013 by joeaverage

[Neeranam]

What do you mean - "I am not a spiritual person"?

My test for whether or not you are an alcoholic - have 1 drink when you wake up - stop until lunchtime. Have 1 more. Then have another 1 at 6pm. Go out at night and don't drink. If you can do this then you are definitely NOT an alcoholic.

Alcoholics develop cravings, roughly 20 minutes after taking a drink. These get progressively worse as you get older.

One of the strangest posts I have read in quite a while.

Who on earth, other than an alcoholic, would dream of having a drink when he wakes up?

Your test is bizarre to say the least.

as I have already said in this thread, no two alcoholics are the same, and there are many, (me included in my drinking days), who could pass your test with flying colours. Sure there are some who would fail, but that doesn't make them any more - or those who pass - any less of an alcoholic.

Ultimately, alcoholics who can pass your test, for several days, or even for weeks in a row, will eventuality succumb.

The tick box lists provided by AA and other help groups are the most accurate guides to whether or not you have a serious problem with alcohol, not some weird test that only proves how much will power you may have on a particular day (or days).

Anyway, that's my opinion.....

Mobi - if someone wants to find out if they are an alcoholic or not, it's a small price to pay. But ok, lets say have the first drink at lunchtime. Have another drink at 6pm. Then go out in a social situation where there is alcohol offered but you can say "no thanks" and drink a cup of tea or whatever. If you can do this then by definition, you are not an alcoholic. After the first drink an alcoholic develops a craving for another. So two alcoholics are the same in this respect.

I probably know more alcoholics than you and none of them could pass this test.

I find it bizarre that you say you are an alcoholic and could control your drinking. Maybe you are an alcohol abuser, which is a completely different thing.

Once you have alcoholism, it doesn't just appear on some days, it is permanent everyday.

Err... if you don't think I am alcoholic, read my blog back in 2009 through to the end of 2011 when I finally managed to quit for good. If that isn't the saga of a full blown alcoholic that all but drank himself to death, then I don't know what is.

I have been drinking with alcoholics all my adult life, and I attended AA meetings on daily basis for more than 2 years. I personally know of at least 3 friends in recent years who have died as a result of alcoholism. Two of those three were able to stop drinking for varying lengths of time before relapsing. The third one never stopped.

I think I do know a thing or two about alcoholics and alcoholism.

Yes, there are alcoholics who can never stop - even for a day . Most of these have no desire to ( they don't care) and some even deny that they are alcoholics.

But there are others - and I have met many, both in and out of AA, who admit they are addicted and may make efforts to quit. Some of these succeed for a while, as I have written about in my previous post, but generally they succumb in the end.

Personally, whenever I tried to cut right back - along the lines of your 'test', I could do it for a while, and then one day I would get blotto and I was back to square one. The only way for me, as it is with all true alcoholics, is to quit for good. This is why I don't think your so-called test works.

No one knows about alcoholism quite like an alcoholic - which is why AA can be so effective.

Are you one?

But we are all entitled to our opinions...

PS - yes you are correct - 'Once you have alcoholism, it doesn't just appear on some days, it is permanent everyday.'

Never was a truer statement made. Even after 2 1/2 years, I still crave alcohol. It will never go, but I have learnt how to deal with it.

The greatest motivation for me to stay sober is the sure knowledge that as soon as I pick up that first drink it is curtains for me.

Hi Mobi

My main point was that an alcoholic can not have one drink and then refuse another. This physical craving is due to natural opiates produced when an alcoholic takes alcohol.

This is why Naltrxone, an opoid antagonist, helps many alcoholics. They don't get the high anymore when drinking.

Yes, I am one - been sober for 13 years. I'm not talking about the craving for alcohol when stopped for a while, which I lost after being in AA and doing step 1-5. This took about 3 months. I know many who have cravings years on - they have one thing in common - they haven't done the steps thoroughly.

I like my 'test' as it shows whether the person is an alcoholic, potential alcoholic, or alcohol abuser.

NN

.

[gerryBScot]

I am not sure how helpful these terms are: the professionals might distinguish alcohol abuser from alcohol dependent, and for them it might well be an appropriate distinction, but for sick me it is likely to get me out drinking again. In the early days there was always part of my thinking that was looking for a proper reason to convince myself I wasn't an alcoholic; alcohol abuser sounds perfect, learn to use it properly, controlled drinking, a nice expensive bottle of red wine ( good for the heart too!) - hell, there were times I stopped after two drinks; there were times I drank a bottle of vodka and felt fine after it. All these experiences ever did for me was convince my sick little mind that I wasn't an alcoholic and that I could handle it. Yet as I continued to persevere with alcohol it really got worse and less pleasureable. I am a five star alcoholic, I drank my way into the rooms of AA and I've only ever managed to stay sober this long because I am still in the rooms. I ain't doing any tests or experiments - I know what will happen if I start drinking again. There is no debate in my head today - that's one of many benefits of being sober, finally saying good bye to the debating society. And the steady stream of posts here on TV testifies that the debating society is alive and well. We describe this illness in AA as "cunning,baffling and powerful". That for me is real wisdom.

[Mobi]

I am not sure how helpful these terms are: the professionals might distinguish alcohol abuser from alcohol dependent, and for them it might well be an appropriate distinction, but for sick me it is likely to get me out drinking again. In the early days there was always part of my thinking that was looking for a proper reason to convince myself I wasn't an alcoholic; alcohol abuser sounds perfect, learn to use it properly, controlled drinking, a nice expensive bottle of red wine ( good for the heart too!) - hell, there were times I stopped after two drinks; there were times I drank a bottle of vodka and felt fine after it. All these experiences ever did for me was convince my sick little mind that I wasn't an alcoholic and that I could handle it. Yet as I continued to persevere with alcohol it really got worse and less pleasureable. I am a five star alcoholic, I drank my way into the rooms of AA and I've only ever managed to stay sober this long because I am still in the rooms. I ain't doing any tests or experiments - I know what will happen if I start drinking again. There is no debate in my head today - that's one of many benefits of being sober, finally saying good bye to the debating society. And the steady stream of posts here on TV testifies that the debating society is alive and well. We describe this illness in AA as "cunning,baffling and powerful". That for me is real wisdom.

Thank you, excellent post, and you have said what I obviously failed to make clear.

My only point is that NN's test (or anyone's test) is all fine and dandy and may well work for some, but you and I know that there are many alkies out there who can pass that test with flying colours and still be drinking themselves to death. To that extent, taking a test like that could be dangerous or self deluding.

As you rightly say, deep down ALL alcoholocs know they are alcoholics and don't need any test to prove it to themselves. The problem is that even though they may know it, many are in denial to the outside world.

At the risk of repeating myself, no two alcoholics are exactly the same, and as Gerrybscott says, 'Alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful'

Anyway, Neeranam, there is no point in continuing the 'test' debate, as we will never agree, so lets just agree to disagree...

Keep sober...

Edited June 26, 2013 by Mobi

[Neeranam]

Let's get a few things straight.

Alcoholism is a chronic and progressive disease.

It is possible to have problems with alcohol even if it hasn't developed into alcoholism.

For some people it never does.

Binge drinking can cause health issues and may speed up the onset of alcoholism.

To the OP:-

If you are an alcoholic you will have 3 of the following criteria:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dependence

Definition and diagnosis[edit]

According to the DSM-IV(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association) criteria for alcohol dependence, at least three out of seven of the following criteria must be manifest during a 12 month period:

1 - Tolerance

2 - Withdrawal symptoms or clinically defined Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome

3 - Use in larger amounts or for longer periods than intended

4 - Persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down on alcohol use

5 - Time is spent obtaining alcohol or recovering from effects

6 - Social, occupational and recreational pursuits are given up or reduced because of alcohol use

7 - Use is continued despite knowledge of alcohol-related harm (physical or psychological)

If you are in fact an alcoholic - abstinence is the only way.

If you are not an alcoholic, but abuse alcohol there are other ways to get help or control your drinking. CBT, etc.

It is a very important decision, as the treatment is very different.

This might be interesting reading for you:-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2939449/

Edited June 26, 2013 by Neeranam

[rucus7]

I don't know about any definitive test to determine problem drinking, alcoholism, too much liquid libation or if you are in the majority of social drinkers. My best guess is I was a problem drinker. I don't think the majority of the population mix half coffee with half whisky in the mornings to stop their hands from shaking. To enable them to get to work. Sometimes I had as many as three blackouts a week. Don't get me wrong occasionally I would stop after a couple of cocktails. I certainly did not drink everyday, primarily due to the fact my hangovers were devastating.

Sometimes I felt impaired for three days after a long weekend. I had no problem drinking alone, but preferred bars. Getting arrested didn't make me miss a beat. Towards the end of my drinking days, I thought I had struck a great balance. Drink a half pint of whisky at home to get tuned up and dialed in for the bar. However,I found that I was not really enjoying drinking anymore. I felt apprehension socially about quitting,it seemed such a large part of my life.

My epiphany came after a New Years party December 31 1985. I woke not remembering how I got home, if I drove and whom I had insulted. I decided to take year off from alcohol consumption. I felt it was a realistic commitment. After all it was not forever,sort of a compromise. I had no interest in AA. Although I know it helps many. I made my year. I have not consumed any alcohol since. In retrospect, I now feel I had not really enjoyed the effects of alcohol for many years prior to my cessation.

There is no moral here. I quit when I was ready. Some are never ready, some are.

I am happy to be alive and not in jail.

[mrjon]

It was very simple for me:

I didn't get into trouble everytime I was drinking but EVERY time that I got in trouble I was drinking (and there were many times)

As far as "having a little bit of a problem now and then" well, lets just say that once a cucumber becomes a pickel it can never become a pickle again. That is the way it is, there is no such thing as being a little bit alcoholic.

Hope anyone with a problem realizes it and seeks help before the great "remover" of family,friends,jobs, self worth finds you.

I am not a preacher of abstinence, I'm just a fortunate "recovering drunk and druggie" that bottomed out back in 1980 and when I had no where else to turn after losing it all, I found myself in a detox center and then AA

[Luke FOSTER]

Think about yourself that you are really alcoholic or not.I think you will get answer.

be care full to take alcohol.too much is dangerous..

[bkkrooftop]

Let's get a few things straight.

Alcoholism is a chronic and progressive disease.

It is possible to have problems with alcohol even if it hasn't developed into alcoholism.

For some people it never does.

Binge drinking can cause health issues and may speed up the onset of alcoholism.

To the OP:-

If you are an alcoholic you will have 3 of the following criteria:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dependence

Definition and diagnosis[edit]

According to the DSM-IV(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association) criteria for alcohol dependence, at least three out of seven of the following criteria must be manifest during a 12 month period:

1 - Tolerance

2 - Withdrawal symptoms or clinically defined Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome

3 - Use in larger amounts or for longer periods than intended

4 - Persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down on alcohol use

5 - Time is spent obtaining alcohol or recovering from effects

6 - Social, occupational and recreational pursuits are given up or reduced because of alcohol use

7 - Use is continued despite knowledge of alcohol-related harm (physical or psychological)

If you are in fact an alcoholic - abstinence is the only way.

If you are not an alcoholic, but abuse alcohol there are other ways to get help or control your drinking. CBT, etc.

It is a very important decision, as the treatment is very different.

This might be interesting reading for you:-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2939449/

wow, according to these stats, i would say everyone in my family and know is an alcoholic.. i gotta spend more time off the pc

[big carl]

Thanks everyone.

I really like "If drinking is causing problems in my life, I have a drinking problem." So true. I mean even "normal" guys get an ear-full once in a while from their Mrs. - but when it gets to the stage that every "episode" ends the same way (excess and bad behaviour) then you gotta admit you have a problem.

What have you guys done to deal with your issues? Do you keap a diary, or blog, or whatever? Do you in some way "monitor" your progress, set goals and targets, etc.?

Personally, I socialise a lot. That is in part a work obligation, but mostly through choice. I am a very social person and do not want to give that up. I think I can continue to socialise in the same circles and do the same things, just without alcohol...... I'd appreciate peoples thoughts and feedback on that. All my friends are good people - I am the only one in the "group" with a problem, and they will support and encourage me to not drink. There will be no negative peer pressure.

Pardon me but may I ask you why they would support you in your decision not to drink? Maybe you are starting to be like I was when I had a drink I knew what was wrong with you and what you needed to do to fix the defect in you. I was OK. Over the years every one disagreed with me and did not want me around if I was drinking. it got to the point that even if I wasn't drinking I was hardly tolerable. But that was me some never said a word.

Could it be that you are not very nice when drinking. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Your behavior will continue to deteriorate over time. If you are an alcoholic you may well go for a period of time with out a drink or the urge to have one. But when you do you do not know when it will stop. That is not normal drinking.

In fact I would suggest to you that armed with the facts you have given us why do you take that first drink?

I found a way in AA to stay away from that first drink that was all I wanted. Unasked by me came a new way to live to be happy to have friends my family accepted me back.

In AA there is all kinds of different drinkers with the same problem as you have if they take a drink they must continue on. You claim you are not a spiritual man. Well wanting to stop drinking and change your behaviors in my book is a spiritual thing to do. AA does not call for any religion. All it says is God as you understood him. Notice the word understood him. That allows you to change your mind. When I came in I was a church goer. Haven't been back since. I have an understanding of God that I am sure is wrong but it works for me. I know two athiests one with over 44 years. It is all up to you we are there to support you and you in return are supporting us. Believe it or not we need the reminder that it was not all peaches and cream out there.

You will find on this Forums other methods but we are the only one that is free and no matter where you go in the world you will find us there. I know for myself religion didn't work. Are Big Book tells us that we do not have the only way. We just have a better success record than other methods. The last line was my addition. It says nothing about how many are successful.

What ever you decide to do I sincerely hope it brings you sobriety and joy.

[big carl]

What do you mean - "I am not a spiritual person"?

My test for whether or not you are an alcoholic - have 1 drink when you wake up - stop until lunchtime. Have 1 more. Then have another 1 at 6pm. Go out at night and don't drink. If you can do this then you are definitely NOT an alcoholic.

Alcoholics develop cravings, roughly 20 minutes after taking a drink. These get progressively worse as you get older.

One of the strangest posts I have read in quite a while.

Who on earth, other than an alcoholic, would dream of having a drink when he wakes up?

Your test is bizarre to say the least.

as I have already said in this thread, no two alcoholics are the same, and there are many, (me included in my drinking days), who could pass your test with flying colours. Sure there are some who would fail, but that doesn't make them any more - or those who pass - any less of an alcoholic.

Ultimately, alcoholics who can pass your test, for several days, or even for weeks in a row, will eventuality succumb.

The tick box lists provided by AA and other help groups are the most accurate guides to whether or not you have a serious problem with alcohol, not some weird test that only proves how much will power you may have on a particular day (or days).

Anyway, that's my opinion.....

Mobi - if someone wants to find out if they are an alcoholic or not, it's a small price to pay. But ok, lets say have the first drink at lunchtime. Have another drink at 6pm. Then go out in a social situation where there is alcohol offered but you can say "no thanks" and drink a cup of tea or whatever. If you can do this then by definition, you are not an alcoholic. After the first drink an alcoholic develops a craving for another. So two alcoholics are the same in this respect.

I probably know more alcoholics than you and none of them could pass this test.

I find it bizarre that you say you are an alcoholic and could control your drinking. Maybe you are an alcohol abuser, which is a completely different thing.

Once you have alcoholism, it doesn't just appear on some days, it is permanent everyday.

Err... if you don't think I am alcoholic, read my blog back in 2009 through to the end of 2011 when I finally managed to quit for good. If that isn't the saga of a full blown alcoholic that all but drank himself to death, then I don't know what is.

I have been drinking with alcoholics all my adult life, and I attended AA meetings on daily basis for more than 2 years. I personally know of at least 3 friends in recent years who have died as a result of alcoholism. Two of those three were able to stop drinking for varying lengths of time before relapsing. The third one never stopped.

I think I do know a thing or two about alcoholics and alcoholism.

Yes, there are alcoholics who can never stop - even for a day . Most of these have no desire to ( they don't care) and some even deny that they are alcoholics.

But there are others - and I have met many, both in and out of AA, who admit they are addicted and may make efforts to quit. Some of these succeed for a while, as I have written about in my previous post, but generally they succumb in the end.

Personally, whenever I tried to cut right back - along the lines of your 'test', I could do it for a while, and then one day I would get blotto and I was back to square one. The only way for me, as it is with all true alcoholics, is to quit for good. This is why I don't think your so-called test works.

No one knows about alcoholism quite like an alcoholic - which is why AA can be so effective.

Are you one?

But we are all entitled to our opinions...

PS - yes you are correct - 'Once you have alcoholism, it doesn't just appear on some days, it is permanent everyday.'

Never was a truer statement made. Even after 2 1/2 years, I still crave alcohol. It will never go, but I have learnt how to deal with it.

The greatest motivation for me to stay sober is the sure knowledge that as soon as I pick up that first drink it is curtains for me.

Appreciate your posts. How ever I would like to point out that we are not all the same if I could have gone a day with out drinking I would not have come to AA. I did have a few month break in the last two years then I picked up the first one. It was a beer and when the bar closed I was asking if any one had any whiskey at home.

Also to the best of my understanding Doctor Bob one of the co founders fought the compulsion for 2 years. In the rooms you will hear many different stories and time frames of how long it took the craving to go away. I went from two bottles of whiskey every night to zero just like that. After my first meeting I never had the urge again. It has been over 10,000 days now. By the way I did not drink those tqwo bottles willingly every night I just couldn't help myself.

I did right at the start attend step meetings every week so I eventually learned more about them. Even at my first meeting I couldn't find any thing wrong with them other than I didn't know what God had to do with it. He was out to get me not help me. My understanding now is not even in the same ball park as it was then.

By the way I agree with you that was and ism a strange way to test if you are an Alcoholic. But then again Alcoholics can come up with some strange reasons why they are not. I for one can not imagine any one that could pass that test day after day for a year to even question if they were one. I like the test in the big book. It says step up to the bar and see if you can have just one. Try it more than one time.

Edited April 17, 2014 by big carl