Phuket -- A pessimist's Paradise

[KarenBravo]

Yup, being a pessimist here is the only way to be. We have been proved right over and over and over again.

Nothing ever changes. Those in power when confronted with Phuket's problems either deny it, blame foreigners, start a committee, or just pay lip service.

The Thais do not understand Westerners. The above actions would appease most Thais, but, when Westerners take these people to task, the powers that be get resentful as their answers and solutions, such as committees and general clap-trap is supposed to be accepted at face value, as in Thai society.

Why does nothing ever change when the solutions are so obvious?

Two reasons.

Firstly, the governor has no real power. He is appointed from Bangkok for a limited time only. Appointed is actually the wrong word. The governor is actually the winner of an auction. It's no coincidence that Phuket governors are generally old and will retire after their term. It takes a lot of money to win the auction to be Phuket's governor and that "investment" has to be recouped.

Secondly, the idea of subordinating ones own interests for the good of the province is a totally alien concept here. The attitude is "what's in it for me".

In Patong, there are less than a thousand voters. The present mayor of Patong makes sure that these voters not only get paid for their votes, but, anything they want will be given which is why canals can be filled in. Buildings above the 80 metre mark can be built, competitors can be pressured to leave. The list is endless.

It's also a common trait that most Thais cannot see the connection between actions and consequences and that seeing further than a week ahead is virtually impossible.

Corruption is a way of life and 72% of Thais interviewed said that they don't mind corruption as long as it benefits themselves.

What really makes me laugh is that most of these people profess to be Buddhists, yet, from my observations, Thais are the most selfish people on the planet when it comes to money.

I would really love to see the Phuket tourist industry collapse and if it does, I know exactly who the Thais will blame.

[jocko]

Not you i hope.

You are spot on though which means that nothing will change but it gives us something to post about.

[Jimi007]

Well said and I agree. Even my Thai wife agrees that these government officials seem to think that water flows up hill! Gravity? What's that? As for your last sentence, farangs will be blamed as we are for everything else here. We are leaving here at the end of August for 9 months at least. I hope there is some improvement in the lame excuse for a government, but somehow I doubt it.

[Guest]

I think many of us came to Phuket, thinking it would be a nice place to call home. After years of living realizing that Phuket can not ever be a home, just a place to be an visitor. That sucks.

As for home I mean a place where a person can really be part of the society, not just spend time there as an outsider.

The next step is not to care what will happen to this island. I went through that phase few years ago after finally figuring out that I can not really do anything to improve the situation. The change have to come from the local people who live here... and it never comes. So why should we even try to change things?

I still relapse every now and then thinking that I could improve things here. It still does not happen.

After all, just live a life here while it's still good and when it's not, hit the road and move somewhere else.

I live in area which is still good compared to the touristic beaches, way better actually. People here are generally good, but there is more an more indications of creed which is radiating from south west of the island.

[TheWizardofRnR]

Corruption as I posted somewhere awhile back , has become the norm for Thailand in general !

Tom MacNamara RIP from Baan Rim Paa had one of my favorite stories about Phuket Government

It was during a meeting on cleaning up Patong , and a bureaucrat asked Tom to help them to write Big Billboard signs.

Sign asking people to keep Phuket Clean use the Garbage Cans and so on.....Tom said he only had one piece of advise :

Print the signs in Thai !

[PCA]

I think many of us came to Phuket, thinking it would be a nice place to call home. After years of living realizing that Phuket can not ever be a home, just a place to be an visitor. That sucks.

As for home I mean a place where a person can really be part of the society, not just spend time there as an outsider.

The next step is not to care what will happen to this island. I went through that phase few years ago after finally figuring out that I can not really do anything to improve the situation. The change have to come from the local people who live here... and it never comes. So why should we even try to change things?

I still relapse every now and then thinking that I could improve things here. It still does not happen.

After all, just live a life here while it's still good and when it's not, hit the road and move somewhere else.

I live in area which is still good compared to the touristic beaches, way better actually. People here are generally good, but there is more an more indications of creed which is radiating from south west of the island.

you are making just one mistake. Getting infected from selfishness and disregarding the self center as an essential. It is not about getting integrated into anything (society in a fishing village and the headspin after suddenly instead of a fish there was an i-phone on the rod) but seeing something new every day, something what confirms why you are here and not there. This is a beautyful place, naturally clean and healthy. If you want to really improve something than live in samples rather than excusing yourself poorly.

[Guest]

you are making just one mistake. Getting infected from selfishness and disregarding the self center as an essential. It is not about getting integrated into anything (society in a fishing village and the headspin after suddenly instead of a fish there was an i-phone on the rod) but seeing something new every day, something what confirms why you are here and not there. This is a beautyful place, naturally clean and healthy. If you want to really improve something than live in samples rather than excusing yourself poorly.

For me life equals being together and finding solutions to the problems. The key to good life is working together. When this does not happen, then it's time to let go and see how people who are so keen to have power, can handle the situation by then selves.

That's the reason, why I do not like to see any efforts where the western world is the giving party and Thailand is the collecting one. An example what happened with the tsunami warning system.

Power always should come with responsibility. This does not happen here. Until this equation is fixed, well nothing essential will not change.

Changes will happen when the easy money will run out. Hungry people demand more than the ones with full stomach.

Anyway, that is not my problem. That is the problem who have and who could have the power if they would have the balls to take it back from the thugs.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Guest

[PCA]

you are making just one mistake. Getting infected from selfishness and disregarding the self center as an essential. It is not about getting integrated into anything (society in a fishing village and the headspin after suddenly instead of a fish there was an i-phone on the rod) but seeing something new every day, something what confirms why you are here and not there. This is a beautyful place, naturally clean and healthy. If you want to really improve something than live in samples rather than excusing yourself poorly.

For me life equals being together and finding solutions to the problems. The key to good life is working together. When this does not happen, then it's time to let go and see how people who are so keen to have power, can handle the situation by then selves.

That's the reason, why I do not like to see any efforts where the western world is the giving party and Thailand is the collecting one. An example what happened with the tsunami warning system.

Power always should come with responsibility. This does not happen here. Until this equation is fixed, well nothing essential will not change.

Changes will happen when the easy money will run out. Hungry people demand more than the ones with full stomach.

Anyway, that is not my problem. That is the problem who have and who could have the power if they would have the balls to take it back from the thugs.

so where are you lacking. Money, power, balls...? Do you need to look at society and corruption to enjoy a place? If all foul will you run off to the better?

[NamKangMan]

Well said and I agree. Even my Thai wife agrees that these government officials seem to think that water flows up hill! Gravity? What's that? As for your last sentence, farangs will be blamed as we are for everything else here. We are leaving here at the end of August for 9 months at least. I hope there is some improvement in the lame excuse for a government, but somehow I doubt it.

I am single, but, from memory, I think I have mentioned this a long time ago. Why can't you guys with Thai girlfirends/wives get them to register to vote here, and vote on election day for the alternative candidate.

Sure, we may be getting just more of the same, but at least they may start to listen to expats, speaking on behalf of themselves, and tourists, and voting throught a proxy, their wives and girlfriends. These votes can't be bought for a few baht, and these women do not need any "favours" in relation to business, land, construction etc.

Is it possible this could force some positive change?

[Guest]

so where are you lacking. Money, power, balls...? Do you need to look at society and corruption to enjoy a place? If all foul will you run off to the better?

I simply wish to live together with good people around me. In an place where showing money, power and balls are not part of everyday living.

[PCA]

so where are you lacking. Money, power, balls...? Do you need to look at society and corruption to enjoy a place? If all foul will you run off to the better?

I simply wish to live together with good people around me. In an place where showing money, power and balls are not part of everyday living.

well you are at the right place but attracted to the wrong things. Every day's life here has changed but so did and does it anywhere else. Still a good place though.

[NamKangMan]

I think many of us came to Phuket, thinking it would be a nice place to call home. After years of living realizing that Phuket can not ever be a home, just a place to be an visitor. That sucks.

As for home I mean a place where a person can really be part of the society, not just spend time there as an outsider.

The next step is not to care what will happen to this island. I went through that phase few years ago after finally figuring out that I can not really do anything to improve the situation. The change have to come from the local people who live here... and it never comes. So why should we even try to change things?

I still relapse every now and then thinking that I could improve things here. It still does not happen.

After all, just live a life here while it's still good and when it's not, hit the road and move somewhere else.

I live in area which is still good compared to the touristic beaches, way better actually. People here are generally good, but there is more an more indications of creed which is radiating from south west of the island.

The way I now see Phuket is, it's a great place to come for a holiday for 2 weeks, if you are cashed up, but is becoming a nightmare of a place to live.

No transport, traffic, pollution (noise, air, water and rubbish) poor roads, rising crime (petty and violent) drug abuse, failing infastructure, too much construction, corrupt police and officials, unfriendly locals, dodgy expats, black outs, flooding and an ever increasing cost of living.

As an expat, you learn to "work around" most of the BS here, but it's getting harder and it gets tiring.

Considering I'm living in the most expensive place in Thailand, I am constantly assessing whether I am really getting value for my money living here. This place has so many issues that do not exist in other places in Thailand, to the extent they exist here. You would think, the more you pay, the better products/services you receive. Loyalty can only be stretched so far.

So, the question must be asked, why pay top dollar for an inferior product/service, and for how long do they think expats and tourists will continue do so?

The European tourists have pretty much detoured Phuket in recent times. That leaves the expats, and they are leaving as well.

Edited June 21, 2013 by NamKangMan

[Guest]

well you are at the right place but attracted to the wrong things. Every day's life here has changed but so did and does it anywhere else. Still a good place though.

Well, I'll hope that you'll not invite me to join prayers to jesus, santa claus or the little green man with funny aluminium hats.

Of course I do make the most of my life by living with the people around here. Of course I have good interactions with others here. Of course I go around and explore the life here. Why do I even have to mention this?

There are real problems here, which does not vanish by looking to other directions and hoping those would not be around when looking back again.

[NamKangMan]

so where are you lacking. Money, power, balls...? Do you need to look at society and corruption to enjoy a place? If all foul will you run off to the better?

I simply wish to live together with good people around me. In an place where showing money, power and balls are not part of everyday living.

well you are at the right place but attracted to the wrong things. Every day's life here has changed but so did and does it anywhere else. Still a good place though.

"Still a good place though." - I wonder if you will be saying that in 2 years time.

[PCA]

well you are at the right place but attracted to the wrong things. Every day's life here has changed but so did and does it anywhere else. Still a good place though.

Well, I'll hope that you'll not invite me to join prayers to jesus, santa claus or the little green man with funny aluminium hats.

Of course I do make the most of my life by living with the people around here. Of course I have good interactions with others here. Of course I go around and explore the life here. Why do I even have to mention this?

There are real problems here, which does not vanish by looking to other directions and hoping those would not be around when looking back again.

funny boy you seem to be. I might invite you for a beer one day so that you can see something new. Your first sentence just shows where your mind has travelled so far after running against countless walls.

Then later you can look back to a fun beer or night if you like.

There are problems and that's true but if you don't have the balls to surmount them you make them bigger.

Yeah and I am not a priest or solicitor so you make me feeling bored by talking non sense.

[PCA]

so where are you lacking. Money, power, balls...? Do you need to look at society and corruption to enjoy a place? If all foul will you run off to the better?

I simply wish to live together with good people around me. In an place where showing money, power and balls are not part of everyday living.

well you are at the right place but attracted to the wrong things. Every day's life here has changed but so did and does it anywhere else. Still a good place though.

"Still a good place though." - I wonder if you will be saying that in 2 years time.

your time is not mine and I will what I will - always.

Anyway get lost boys if you miss mommy.

[Jimi007]

Well said and I agree. Even my Thai wife agrees that these government officials seem to think that water flows up hill! Gravity? What's that? As for your last sentence, farangs will be blamed as we are for everything else here. We are leaving here at the end of August for 9 months at least. I hope there is some improvement in the lame excuse for a government, but somehow I doubt it.

I am single, but, from memory, I think I have mentioned this a long time ago. Why can't you guys with Thai girlfirends/wives get them to register to vote here, and vote on election day for the alternative candidate.

Sure, we may be getting just more of the same, but at least they may start to listen to expats, speaking on behalf of themselves, and tourists, and voting throught a proxy, their wives and girlfriends. These votes can't be bought for a few baht, and these women do not need any "favours" in relation to business, land, construction etc.

Is it possible this could force some positive change?

She is registered with the government here. But she wasn't born here. So she can't vote here. And we're headed for the USA at the end of August. There is no such thing as an absentee ballot here in Thailand, like there is in the USA. Do you think Thailand is an actual democracy?

[NamKangMan]

@ PCA

Yet another who has been nowhere else in Thailand and/or South East Asia. :)

[PCA]

@ PCA

Yet another who has been nowhere else in Thailand and/or South East Asia.

hehehe, think what you want but don't forget to rest when you sleep.

[NamKangMan]

Well said and I agree. Even my Thai wife agrees that these government officials seem to think that water flows up hill! Gravity? What's that? As for your last sentence, farangs will be blamed as we are for everything else here. We are leaving here at the end of August for 9 months at least. I hope there is some improvement in the lame excuse for a government, but somehow I doubt it.

I am single, but, from memory, I think I have mentioned this a long time ago. Why can't you guys with Thai girlfirends/wives get them to register to vote here, and vote on election day for the alternative candidate.

Sure, we may be getting just more of the same, but at least they may start to listen to expats, speaking on behalf of themselves, and tourists, and voting throught a proxy, their wives and girlfriends. These votes can't be bought for a few baht, and these women do not need any "favours" in relation to business, land, construction etc.

Is it possible this could force some positive change?

She is registered with the government here. But she wasn't born here. So she can't vote here. And we're headed for the USA at the end of August. There is no such thing as an absentee ballot here in Thailand, like there is in the USA. Do you think Thailand is an actual democracy?

Of course Thailand is not a democracy.

I did not know you could only vote in the place you were born. I thought you could vote where you were registered. Pardon my ignorance.

Anyway, it a shame Issan hasn't got a beach. Expats, through their proxy girlfriends/wives, would be the big swing voters up there. :)

[Guest]

funny boy you seem to be. I might invite you for a beer one day so that you can see something new. Your first sentence just shows where your mind has travelled so far after running against countless walls.

Then later you can look back to a fun beer or night if you like.

There are problems and that's true but if you don't have the balls to surmount them you make them bigger.

Yeah and I am not a priest or solicitor so you make me feeling bored by talking non sense.

The first sentence should tell that I don't really valuate people who have learned standard solutions and repeat those to everyone who are willing to listen. It simply does not work. We are living people here who do interact with the locals, even if we criticize how things are handled currently.

If you have solutions for the problems, then I'm really interested to hear. If you know that there is a new group in Phuket, who is working on the problem, then I'm ready to help.

But until that will happen, it's only talk here which will not result to anything. The point is that the change has to come from local people here, before that.. well we have thaivisa.

[NamKangMan]

@ PCA

Yet another who has been nowhere else in Thailand and/or South East Asia.

hehehe, think what you want but don't forget to rest when you sleep.

I'll be keeping an eye out for you on the front page of the PG one day. :)

[PCA]

funny boy you seem to be. I might invite you for a beer one day so that you can see something new. Your first sentence just shows where your mind has travelled so far after running against countless walls.

Then later you can look back to a fun beer or night if you like.

There are problems and that's true but if you don't have the balls to surmount them you make them bigger.

Yeah and I am not a priest or solicitor so you make me feeling bored by talking non sense.

The first sentence should tell that I don't really valuate people who have learned standard solutions and repeat those to everyone who are willing to listen. It simply does not work. We are living people here who do interact with the locals, even if we criticize how things are handled currently.

If you have solutions for the problems, then I'm really interested to hear. If you know that there is a new group in Phuket, who is working on the problem, then I'm ready to help.

But until that will happen, it's only talk here which will not result to anything. The point is that the change has to come from local people here, before that.. well we have thaivisa.

a new group . Yeah there is a new group and they don't comply with the presence. I don't really know how you can help anyone if you are failing to help yourself in the first place.

The OP and you are different than for example NKM, so yes there are changes under procedure. Changes by will for a better community and funny you might think - including farangs.

[PCA]

@ PCA

Yet another who has been nowhere else in Thailand and/or South East Asia.

hehehe, think what you want but don't forget to rest when you sleep.

I'll be keeping an eye out for you on the front page of the PG one day.

you can also meet me and bring your camera

[Guest]

a new group:P . Yeah there is a new group and they don't comply with the presence. I don't really know how you can help anyone if you are failing to help yourself in the first place.

The OP and you are different than for example NKM, so yes there are changes under procedure. Changes by will for a better community and funny you might think - including farangs.

Oh boy..

[Jimi007]

Well said and I agree. Even my Thai wife agrees that these government officials seem to think that water flows up hill! Gravity? What's that? As for your last sentence, farangs will be blamed as we are for everything else here. We are leaving here at the end of August for 9 months at least. I hope there is some improvement in the lame excuse for a government, but somehow I doubt it.

I am single, but, from memory, I think I have mentioned this a long time ago. Why can't you guys with Thai girlfirends/wives get them to register to vote here, and vote on election day for the alternative candidate.

Sure, we may be getting just more of the same, but at least they may start to listen to expats, speaking on behalf of themselves, and tourists, and voting throught a proxy, their wives and girlfriends. These votes can't be bought for a few baht, and these women do not need any "favours" in relation to business, land, construction etc.

Is it possible this could force some positive change?

She is registered with the government here. But she wasn't born here. So she can't vote here. And we're headed for the USA at the end of August. There is no such thing as an absentee ballot here in Thailand, like there is in the USA. Do you think Thailand is an actual democracy?

Of course Thailand is not a democracy.

I did not know you could only vote in the place you were born. I thought you could vote where you were registered. Pardon my ignorance.

Anyway, it a shame Issan hasn't got a beach. Expats, through their proxy girlfriends/wives, would be the big swing voters up there.

You know what they say about assuming? Well there you go... She's not from Issan. And she has not made a new Tam ban book here as the house lease is in my name, not hers.

[PCA]

a new group:P . Yeah there is a new group and they don't comply with the presence. I don't really know how you can help anyone if you are failing to help yourself in the first place.

The OP and you are different than for example NKM, so yes there are changes under procedure. Changes by will for a better community and funny you might think - including farangs.

Oh boy..

well that's what I said. Good night

[bearpolar]

I gotta say. Im one of those whiners. You probably remember me.

I have been out of the country for a while now. Didnt think 1months that i missed it.

I hate the assholishness of the average thais which isnt even on purpose. I hate the danger and corruption but at least if you forget those things life is enjoyable especially when you're not a hard worker. I for one will just let thai do what they do and enjoy it once im back. In the west you work to watch tv and eat in and have an outing once every 2months. In Thailand you semi-retire to eat out/enjoy outings any day you wish and enjoy the company of others. Just have to be really careful with your safety and learn to let every thai "win" instead of holding your end of the stick to be right as long as it doesnt endanger you/makes your life a misery.

It's just like those hopeless kids that can't stop being bad . You can either beat them and get into trouble and still not fix the problem(or create a new one) or just let them do whatever idiocy they do. Remind them its bad and hope someday they get into trouble and actually learn from their mistakes.

[Valentine]

Good points in the OP, pity it has has turned into a bit of a slanging match. Setting up committees, paying lip service etc proves that money, unlike water, does flow uphill. I think Patong started really going downhill, for me anyway, was around the turn of the century when one family controlled the council & they allowed unfettered growth using their construction companies. In that time we had a job to renovate a place in the Royal Paradise complex & within one hour of starting one of the "company agents" turned up stating we were not allowed to work in Patong. However, once our client was relieved of 50,000 Baht we were allowed to continue. If he had used the said construction company he would not have been "fined" although I feel sure his costs would have been much higher.

I am still happy living here, have good relationships & family to take care of but do get a bit frustrated with the traffic & the constant abuse of power shafting the very people they represent.

[eezergood]

Greed is the simple explanation