Aus Visa Advice - Tourist or Partner Visa (with newborn child)?

[secretariat]

Hi folks,

Would love to hear your thoughts on a somewhat tricky situation involving getting my fiancee & baby (due in a few months) to Australia shortly after the birth.

Basic background info -

* Relationship 2.5 years old

* Engaged for 15 months

* She has previously had a 3 mth tourist visa, then a 12 mth tourist visa approved to visit Australia

* She has spent around 6.5 months in Australia before (3 trips - 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 months)

* Fall pregnant in Aus early this year, baby due towards end of year

* I live in Aus full time, she is now back in Thailand until the birth of our child

Our intention is for her to have the baby in Thailand. I will travel to Thailand for the birth & weeks following this. I want the baby to have both a Thai & Australian passport. I then want both her & the baby to come to Australia approximately 4 to 6 weeks after the birth to start our new life as a family.

BUT WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS THE BEST THING TO DO IN TERMS OF VISA's....

* We don't technically qualify for the standard defacto relationship - partner visa (although we've been in a relationship for 2.5 years, we have not lived together in the same country for 12 months continuously - hard to do when I work full time in Aus). We will be applying under the 'special circumstances' part of the partner visa application as we will have a child together

* I considered submitting the partner visa prior to now but the fact that Xray's are involved meant that she couldn't do it when pregnant. (I also thought that we might need to wait until after the birth before we can apply as having a child

At this stage I'm thinking about have her apply for another tourist visa in a couple of months (when the current 12 month visa she holds expires). It will simply be submitted as a standard tourist visa (no mention of baby) & see if this can be granted. If successful, we would use this visa for her to come to Australia after the birth of the baby. But I would intend to submit a formal partner visa application in Thailand (after the birth of the baby, but before travelling to Australia). I would hope that this would be possible - we can start spending time as a family in Australia for short time, then she can return to Thailand (or travel overseas) when hopefully a full partner visa will be granted.

By the time she & baby will be ready to come to Australia (visa's permitting) we'll have spent over 7 months separated. We don't want to have to live in different countries when the baby is born, waiting months of end to get a visa approved.

Any comments from those who've been through similar experiences would be greatly appreciated....

(I'll also want to make sure I do everything right so that we can claim baby bonus as well)

[secretariat]

anyone?

[Northpoint]

anyone?

The issue of the Op is a very interesting one and he explained it well. Unfortunately it goes beyond my limited expertise. I am flat out trying to work out the best way to get a rather straight forward de facto sponsor visa after returning from Oz next october after getting our third 3 months tourist visa.

It does not take too much of an effort to do a visa application for a tourist visa yourself, without having to pay a visa agent to do so. The OP's issue is a complex one, but he will get his sponsor visa eventually. I think in his case I would be inclined to seek the help of a migration lawyer in Australia or the help of a very good visa agent to expedite the matter.

[David48]

anyone?

I would have replied if I had any experience ... but you are one step ahead of me this time.

With this particular set of circumstances, I and maybe many more here will learn from your experiences.

So, I sincerely hope that come back and inform us with your experiences and tips.

.

[simple1]

OP: Can you clarify if the baby will accompany your partner when travelling to Oz on her tourist visa? If so baby will require a visa. I believe I am corect that it would be a big mistake not to declare baby on the partner's visa application and would be a major negative for future applications. I assume baby could be entered on partner's Thai passport, but would need to cross check if this is so.

EDIT: I recall a number of years ago my wife making an application for a visa & was warned that if not declaring a child any future application for child's entry would be declined

Edited July 9, 2013 by simple1

[secretariat]

Our intention is to apply for the tourist visa before she has the baby. I can't recall any questions on the Tourist Visa form asking if the applicant is pregnant - it's not something that will be hidden or lied about. Obviously it's a different story if the Tourist Visa is applied for after she has the baby.

Once the baby is born, I'll be in Thailand for awhile. As I'm the father of the child, I will be nominated on the birth certificate as the father. When I'm in Thailand we will be applying to the Australian Embassy for the baby to be registered as a "citizen by descent". That way the baby will have an Australian passport before departing Thailand - which I believe will mean the baby won't need a visa to enter Australia?

[simple1]

Our intention is to apply for the tourist visa before she has the baby. I can't recall any questions on the Tourist Visa form asking if the applicant is pregnant - it's not something that will be hidden or lied about. Obviously it's a different story if the Tourist Visa is applied for after she has the baby.

Once the baby is born, I'll be in Thailand for awhile. As I'm the father of the child, I will be nominated on the birth certificate as the father. When I'm in Thailand we will be applying to the Australian Embassy for the baby to be registered as a "citizen by descent". That way the baby will have an Australian passport before departing Thailand - which I believe will mean the baby won't need a visa to enter Australia?

OK. Don't forget baby will need Thai pasport to depart & use the Oz passport for entry to Australia. Regarding your concern applying under the special circumstance process, if I were in your shoes, after downloading and reviewing the advisory booklet, then contact the office below for any further clarification needed, as they are transparent & professional. I understand current processing time is between 6 / 12 months, why not ask if it is permissable to start the application process now & explain that any x-rays required will be provided after baby is born?

Visa and Immigration Office

Australian Embassy Bangkok

37 South Sathorn Road

Bangkok 10120 Thailand

Please use the Online Enquiry Form for any enquiries.

Telephone: 02 344 6300 Fax: 02 344 6593

e-mail: [email protected]

Info for the process to obtain Form 1229 to provide consent for person under 18 in Thailand to obtain an Australian visa below. Note that if all legal custodians of applicants under 18 years of age are applying for visas together and intend to travel with the child, Form 1229 is not necessary.

http://www.thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/DIAC_Visa_children.html

Edited July 9, 2013 by simple1

[Jasun]

Firstly, go to a registry office in Oz and book a date for a marriage around 2-3 months after the due date of the child (you'll need some signed stuff from your girlfriend). It's not expensive and you can cancel the appointment any time in the future.

Include the receipt as part of an application for a prospective spouse visa - offshore. You'll need to get together as much evidence of your relationship as possible, including her visits to see you in Australia etc, declarations from family members, photocopies of birthday cards you sent, anything. Take all the forms etc over with you when you go for the birth of your child.

Have the child then apply for Australian citizenship by descent through the Oz embassy in BKK, takes 2 weeks.

After the baby is born, get the x-rays done. The doctor's cert and your child's citizenship certificate will be the last pieces in your prospective spouse visa application. If you have all your ducks in a row, getting it shouldn't be a problem.

Once she has her visa, and your child has its Australian passport, get on a plane and come home. It'll probably be 6-8 weeks after the baby is born. Once in Oz, you can get married, otherwise she can apply for a longer term visa purely on the strength she is the mother of an Australian citizen.

[jawdoe]

my wife came out to Australia when pregnant no need to say anything about it. however i used a visa company so the people processing my visa never saw my wife. I have had both my children in Thailand and would say your best option is another 12mths visa for your GF/Wife that you can upgrade when in Australia to Partner visa The Oz embassy should put her on a temp visa while the Partner is being processed, this gives her some coverage eg. medicare etc... If you are having the baby here in Thailand you'll need to get the thai passport made, then apply for citizen by decent.

[secretariat]

Thanks for your help guys, it's greatly appreciated. Plenty for me to think about now, but things are becoming more clearer now then when I wrote the OP.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You would qualify for a de-facto once the child was born I submitted one last year in the same circumstances .

[secretariat]

UPDATE & FURTHER QUESTIONS:

I know it's been awhile since I've added to this thread, but thought I'd give bit of an update as I now have further questions.

Progress since my initial post -

* Baby is now due soon - approx 1 to 2 months time

* I recently visited Thailand for a quick trip & we are now legally married (married in Thailand/registry etc)

* About 1 month ago (prior to marriage), my finance/wife applied for a tourist visa so she can come to Australia following the birth of our child. She was somewhat successful in this request - She was granted a tourist visa, but it's only a 3 month/single entry visa. (She had a real b*tc% who was assigned to assess the visa). We were really hoping for her to be granted a 12 month m/e visa, but that was not to be

* We only really wanted the 12 month visa to give us flexibility on how/when we apply for a partner visa. That flexibility is now gone.

Our intentions are now as follows -

* I'll be in Thailand following the birth of the baby. (As I'm now legally married in Thailand, I'm assuming that I won't have any issues in being nominated as the legal father of the baby when born?)

* After birth, will go through the process of getting the baby

- Thai passport

- Australian Citizenship by descent

- Australian passport

* When in Thailand, I want to submit the Partner Visa application for my wife, BUT, I want her to travel to Australia on her Tourist Visa whilst her Partner Visa is being assessed

- I've assumed that as the baby will be an Australian citizen, their should be no need for the child to apply for a visa.

So now for my current questions -

* When applying for a Partner Visa (which obviously takes longer to assess than a tourist visa), does the applicant need to submit their passport, or is a certified copy sufficient? If they need to submit their passport, hold long does the embassy hold onto it for?

* Has anyone had success with travelling outside on Thailand on a Tourist Visa whilst at the same time applying for a Partner Visa? (I'm paranoid about some case officer at the embassy totally stuffing everything up by granting a partner visa whilst my wife is in Australia - and therefore losing the visa & application fee because my wife isn't in Thailand when granted)

* Is a partner visa application submitted the same way as a Tourist visa (i.e. through VFS, etc)? Or is it possible to arrange to meet with a relevant case officer at the embassy at time of application so that we can discuss the travel arrangements during the partner visa application process (so that the embassy does not grant a partner visa during this time)?

* Is there anything I can do with immigration department in Australia so that I can safeguard against the Australian embassy in Thailand stuffing things up?

I guess I could bring the wife & baby to Australia for 3 months on her tourist visa, then when she comes back to Thailand submit the partner visa application then, and simply hope that it doesn't take forever to grant a partner visa.... But this is far from idea when we simply want to get on with starting our new family in Australia.

Any help, as always, is greatly appreciated.

[krisb]

She definitely definitely can't have an xray being pregnant. For sure get baby Australian passport ASAP after birth. Then the way I see it baby doesn't need a visa. I think it would help lever your wife's partner visa quite a bit. I'd probably get a tourist visa, hopefully a nice long one which is faster than the partner visa, then if you can once she's here go for the partner visa.

Re baby bonus, if I'm not mistaken, I'm sure the bonus can be claimed if she's so many months pregnant, baby doesn't have to be born.

[krisb]

My wifes partner visa was applied for and issued while she was here in Australia. At the time she was here on a fiancee visa, which then bridged onto a partner visa.

I wonder could a tourist visa bridge onto a partner visa?

[krisb]

Sorry, 1 more, I would be using my child visiting family in Australia as the reason for granting a tourist visa for her. I know the feeling op, I talked my wife into having the baby here. She was gonna have it in Thailand up until the last minute. It made my brain go into overdrive thinking of how visas would work in that scenario. Concentrating on the birth is the most important bit now. Visas will follow.

[simple1]

She definitely definitely can't have an xray being pregnant. For sure get baby Australian passport ASAP after birth. Then the way I see it baby doesn't need a visa. I think it would help lever your wife's partner visa quite a bit. I'd probably get a tourist visa, hopefully a nice long one which is faster than the partner visa, then if you can once she's here go for the partner visa.

Re baby bonus, if I'm not mistaken, I'm sure the bonus can be claimed if she's so many months pregnant, baby doesn't have to be born.

At this stage would not be able to claim baby bonus as baby would not meet Australian residence requirement.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/baby-bonus

[secretariat]

Hey krisb,

Totally agree with her not having xrays whilst pregnant. That's been a major factor in why she hasn't already applied for a partner visa yet. But will get the xrays done shortly after the birth, provided all is well. Unfortunately she has only been given a 3 month visa, single entry only - so don't think we can apply in Australia. Plus it costs significantly more to apply for a partner visa in Australia compared to applying offshore.

Have decided for her to have the baby in Thailand with her family & friends around to support her. She's not covered by medicare in Australia, plus she doesn't speak fluent english - I'd rather her be comfortable having the baby in Thailand, where there's no language barriers.

Edited August 24, 2013 by secretariat

[krisb]

She definitely definitely can't have an xray being pregnant. For sure get baby Australian passport ASAP after birth. Then the way I see it baby doesn't need a visa. I think it would help lever your wife's partner visa quite a bit. I'd probably get a tourist visa, hopefully a nice long one which is faster than the partner visa, then if you can once she's here go for the partner visa.

Re baby bonus, if I'm not mistaken, I'm sure the bonus can be claimed if she's so many months pregnant, baby doesn't have to be born.

 

At this stage would not be able to claim baby bonus as baby would not meet Australian residence requirement.

 

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/baby-bonus

Anyway, you have year to apply once born. Op, do you qualify for the 5 or 2 thousand dollars?

[krisb]

Baby needs to be on the house book before getting a Thai passport.

[secretariat]

Is it hard to get on the house book you refer to krisb?

Regarding the baby bonus, will be eligible for 5k.

[krisb]

Housebook, tambien baan, family tree. Easy, I'm sure your wife will go do it.

[David48]

To the OP, secretariat ... great to see you back here ...

The questions you ask I have no experience of yet but there has been some good information kicking around recently on the Partner Visa Issue.

I costs considerably more to lodge the Partner Visa in Australia then overseas ... BUT ... you have to be in the country of lodgement to collect the Visa. Friend of my gf lodged her Partner Visa Application in Thailand, came to Australia, but had to return to Thailand to receive the Visa. All that is 3rd hand information, as I've not experienced it directly.

Back to the good info ...

One of the guys discovered that you can pay for Visas in Australia and have that acknowledged in Thailand ... thus a good saving on the exchange rate. See this thread ... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/660659-paying-for-a-visa-application-in-aus-for-lodgment-in-bkk/

You asked about conversion from a tourist visa to a partner Visa ... I don't know ... BUT, has the Visa got the 'No Further Stay' condition?

If it does ... she has to leave Australia by the Visa's expiry date.

If not, why not apply for second tourist visa to run after the current one expires?

Good luck with what you do and come back and share what you have learnt as we all grow by the information here.

Cheers

David48

[secretariat]

Thanks for the tip about paying the visa in Aus with Aus currency. Don't know how much it saves, I guess it depends on what exchange rate the embassy sets for the Thai conversion (The immigration website says it is set for 6 month period, but ATM their currency conversion calculator is down "experiencing technical difficulties"...go figure). Does anyone know what the current price is for a Partner Visa application paid in Thai Baht?

I'll no doubt go with the option of paying in Aus with Aus currency - thanks for letting me know about that.

With the Tourist Visa, I am sure it's only a single entry/3 month visa/no further stay... I felt like lodging a complaint, but now that we have seen been married I don't want to make a big deal of things...An example of the stupidity of the case worker - on the tourist application there is a question about visiting NZ/PNG/etc as part of the holiday to Australia. We stated that we would like to go for a short trip (say 1 week) to NZ for New Years to see friend... When the case officer called my wife she told her that she needs to apply for a visa to visit NZ (obviously), and said that she would need to come back to Thailand, then she can travel from Thailand to NZ if she wants to visit !!!!

It looks like I'll have to apply for citizenship of the baby very shortly after birth -- The immigration website states up to 60 days to process a citizenship application ??

[krisb]

60 days seems a bit long considering it only takes a couple of days for my daughter born in Australia, to get her Thai citizenship done in Thailand. Thats according to the Thai consulate in Adelaide. BTW, very very helpful chap works there if you ever need solid advice.

Op, I assume you apply for bubs citizenship at vfs right? How much is it? Another option is apply for it once bubs is in Australia but then it would need a visa to get here but possibly a quicker option if needed.

[secretariat]

krisb,

I could be wrong, but I believe VFS only deals with visa applications. As I'll be applying for Australian Citizenship + Passport for the baby, I believe that this is all done directly with the Australian embassy?

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/how_to_apply/born_overseas/

http://www.thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/DIAC_Citizenship.html

As for costs, I assume that the citizenship by descent fee (Form 118) is $120 AUD (http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/fees_forms_appeals/)

And the cost for an Australian passport I assume will be a further $119 AUD (https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/Queries/Fees.aspx)

But I could be completely wrong with the citizenship/passport costs - but it's the next thing that I need to investigate further prior to the birth of the child (so I can get hold of the child's passport as quickly as possible).

I'm sure I read a forum thread recently about the process for arranging citizenship/passport for a child born overseas, but I can't seem to find it atm. I'll keep looking though...

Edited August 26, 2013 by secretariat

[simple1]

OP: under the heading, Australian Passports – Applications for Minors, at the URL below clearly explains the process via the BKK Embassy

http://www.thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Consular_P2.html

[secretariat]

Cheers simple...

[krisb]

Yeah babies passport is about 120. Its valid for 5 years by memory. To get the baby pp photos done, incase you wonder, just hold baby under its arms in front of the screen and you stand to the side.

[secretariat]

A quick question about the dependant child aspect of a Partner migration visa. (It would seem like a ridiculous question, but I can't count on common sense applying when it comes to the Australian Government & $$$).

I've had a quick look at the various Visa forms that need to be filled out for my partner to come to Australia. Before this visa application is lodged, I will arrange for our newborn baby to receive citizenship by descent & an Australian passport.

When I looked at the visa forms, it asks for details of any dependant children of the applicant, and whether those children will be migrating to Australia with the applicant. However, on the main visa application form, it does not ask whether the child is an Australian citizen or not.

My question is this - Will the Australian government ignore the citizenship of the baby & incur an "additional applicant charge under 18"?

I know this sounds like a dumb question, but I have to wonder...

[krisb]

Far as I can tell the answers no. The baby is Australian as you. I get what your saying though it can be either depending on which way you look at it.

Do this, work through the form, compile all your questions, then go straight to the source and ring DIAC.