Japan Says It Faces Increasing Threats from China, North Korea

[thaibeachlovers]

Payback is a bitch!

[Publicus]

It's called 'deflection'.

In good old Great Britain we have a very well known political commentator called Jeremy Paxman whose most famous saying is "Answer the question"

An interview with Paxman and Xi Jinping about the China Sea would be good value.

China would never expose themselves to rigorous interrogation though, so it won't happen.

It's time for the international community to stand up against the Bullies from Beijing.

On many issues, not just the China Sea.

Who do you consider to be the "international community" to stand up to Beijing?

Both Hong Kong and Taiwan are a lot more like Japan in may ways, including a higher standard of living, 99% literacy, various industries and so forth and both look down at China and Mainlanders as being nothing more than country bumpkins.

As of now, Hong Kong has it's fair share of trouble with it's neighbor to the North, but when the sh*t hits the fan, as in the Diaoyu Island situation, both country/city-state nations will back Beijing all the way. Keep in mind, they have those islands recorded in 16th century Chinese chronicles.

Japan does not. They claimed those islands after the war.

With Okinawa, they are more Chinese/Taiwanese then they are Japanese in culture and music. Matter of fact, Okinawans call

themselves Ryuku-jin. They hate mainland Japan with a passion.

I've lived in both Japan and Hong Kong for a number of years and one thing for certain, they (HK and TW) will never forget what happened during the war.

That's accurate to say, and it's because the people of the region don't ever have the thought to forgive and forget, or, if one can't forget, at least to forgive. Hence, the old grudges, hates, passion for revenge are never ending, self-perpetuating, virulent.

The CCP in Beijing exploits this and uses nationalism as a strategy and tactic to gain the legitimacy and support of the PRChinese sheeple, who love and thrive on the CCP promise to settle old scores against neighbors, to obtain vengeance, and to humiliate its traditional and historical enemies of thousands of years, who also have been enemies during the past century especially and in particular.

This is the vicious cycle. It contrasts to the virtuous cycle, which focuses on and develops the positive in hopes of constructing a better future..

The vicious cycle perpetuates anger and a passion of revenge and a drive to settle old scores. This consumes the consciousness, time and effort of both the CCP in Beijing, which uses these nationalist and ethnic emotions cynically to promote its own rule, and exploits the time, thoughts and attention of the population. It warps the school curriculum and what passes in the CCP-PRC for an education system, which in fact infects the popular mind and emotions with a passion for vengeance and "payback" which, as has been said and continues to be said in the CCP-PRC, is a "bitch."

All this leads to nowhere good or positive for either the present or the future and adversely impacts all of us.

It's a destructive win-lose mindset held and developed by backward thinking people and their leaders because it dwells in negativity and hate. A society predicated in large part on win-lose revenge and settling old scores is a menace to the civilized world and to a peaceful, prosperous and relatively stable international order.

The shameless propagandists and pernicious, never ending advocates of vengeance and settling old scores endanger all of us.

They need to be rebuked and neutralized, consigned to the trash heap of history lest they realize their purpose of pursuing endless and recurring conflict, to include possibly ethnic cleansing.

Whatever happened to learning win-win?

[SinglePot]

Yep.

So what is China gonna do?

[LawrenceChee]

Yep.

So what is China gonna do?

1) Continue to engage in peaceful talks with its neighbors, focus on increasing trade like the UK commercial nuclear plants announced today.

2) not read TV comments and get pissed

3) hope Japan would stop provoking them and South Korea and all nations affected by the war . The annual visit to the shrine at its politicians insistence in honoring war criminals is just inappropriate and does nothing to ease the tension

[Publicus]

It's not often that I agree with Publicus and disagree with LawrenceChee on one topic, but calling Japan an aggressive military country prone to further invasions is simply ridiculous - the reference to history is not only laughable but also devoid of any sense of reality . . . beware, Portugal is having a tough time and may again go on a worldwide rampage!!!

Japan has been a model world citizen for the past 60+ years, something that cannot be said for China.

Japan has a civilised society based on order and the rule of law - China advocates mass demonstrations against whichever happens to stoke the nationalist feelings of the day, brutally suppresses minorities and engages in ethnic cleansing of an insidious nature - akin to Indonesia's actions in Irian Jaya.

China is not 'misunderstood', its leaders are scared feces-less of the growing rift between rich/poor, country/city, peasant/educated . . . 100 million un- or underemployed which could severely test the power of the state.

Long may the Communist Party reign because if they ever lose power and 'democracy' steps in we shall all be in trouble.

Holmes concluded that whoever best combined sea, land and air forces stood a good chance of winning a conflict.

This is the important factor, a combination of the three arms of any military - is paramount and comparing sheer numbers is useless . . .

It saddens me to say this, especially as an ex Navy Lt (subs), but the Navy is now by far the least effective and important aspect of any military - it can disrupt but its effectiveness has been marginalised by medium and long range missiles.

On the final point in your post concerning the Navy as a modern fighting force, Navies are becoming the main combat and battle force of many Western countries. The Japanese continue to focus on their Navy with the Air Force and the Army in supporting roles. Australia is moving decisively in the same direction. Asean countries are building their navies, as is India. So is the CCP-PRC.

In the strategic war plan of the United States presently and going forward, the Navy and the Air Force are the paramount military forces. The Marines remain important while the Army is being downgraded as a component of combat and battle, war.

The AirSea Battle strategy of the US going forward focuses on the Navy and Air Force as a joint coordinated strike force, The US will fight its future battles and wars based on sophisticated integrated Air and Sea forces, supported by Marine forces. The Army is now a remote backup force. What good is an Army in Asia? Think Vietnam, as one instance - and of course Iraq and Afghanistan.

I speak of conventional warfare.

Ultimately, it is the US Navy that has more nuclear weapons than either the Air Force or the Army. It is the US Navy that has this awesome and destructive force in numbers and in decisive force. It is the Navy that will deploy and take the coordinated lead in any nuclear warfare, supported by the Air Force.

The military commander in chief of all US forces in the Asia Pacific Theater is a navy four-star admiral headquartered at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (presently a Japanese-American).

To the United States, the Navy is the central combat force of present and, increasingly, future warfare both conventional and nuclear.

So fret not, my former naval friend. Even tho I was Army, I recognize present and future realities. For me its simple reality, but for you I can understand that some sentiment is involved. And your specialty, submarines, are integral to the whole thing.

New US destroyer deployed against China's Anti-Access strategy: US Navy

Concept art of the Zumwalt-class stealth destroyers in operation. (Internet Photo)

The primary function of the US Navy Zumwalt-class stealth destroyers recently deployed to the Asia Pacific region is to counter the anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities of China, reports party mouthpiece Global Times.

The new surface combat vessel is considered the future of the US Navy by admiral Jonathan Greenert, chief of naval operations, and will play an important role in supporting president Barack Obama's Asia Pivot Strategy.

The 15,000-ton USS Elmo Zumwalt DDG-1000's stealth design is able to reduce radar and sonar detection to the lowest levels of any destroyer in the world. It would be able to engage against Chinese warships in a littoral (shallower coastal waters) combat environment. The vessel's deadliest weapon system is its electronic rail gun that fires using electromagnetic pulses.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20131017000112

Edited October 18, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Yep.

So what is China gonna do?

1) Continue to engage in peaceful talks with its neighbors, focus on increasing trade like the UK commercial nuclear plants announced today.

2) not read TV comments and get pissed

3) hope Japan would stop provoking them and South Korea and all nations affected by the war . The annual visit to the shrine at its politicians insistence in honoring war criminals is just inappropriate and does nothing to ease the tension

1) Beijing negotiates publically only after all of its conditions have already been agreed to in private. Thus, Beijing is seldom involved in negotiations because other governments do not agree to privately capitulating to absolute demands. The CCP's notions of what negotiations are and how they are conducted are bizarre, highly risky, egocentric.

2) Hard for the CCP and its types to do.

3). Japanese PM Shinzo Abe did not visit the Yasakuni war shrine this time. Japan is a peaceful nation that has spent the past 60+ years peacefully building an advanced and extremely wealthy country and population and in developing Japanese style democracy. Japan provoking no one. Japanese culture is popular throughout East Asia and promotes positive attitudes in the region towards Japan. Japan is a principal target of Beijing's designs to become the regional power of East Asia. Japan, by being Japan, stands in Beijing's way. This will not change.

4) The CCP spends more on internal security forces than it does on its armed forces. That's what dictators do.

[LawrenceChee]

Yep.

So what is China gonna do?

1) Continue to engage in peaceful talks with its neighbors, focus on increasing trade like the UK commercial nuclear plants announced today.

2) not read TV comments and get pissed

3) hope Japan would stop provoking them and South Korea and all nations affected by the war . The annual visit to the shrine at its politicians insistence in honoring war criminals is just inappropriate and does nothing to ease the tension

1) Beijing negotiates publically only after all of its conditions have already been agreed to in private. Thus, Beijing is seldom involved in negotiations because other governments do not agree to privately capitulating to absolute demands. The CCP's notions of what negotiations are and how they are conducted are bizarre, highly risky, egocentric.

2) Hard for the CCP and its types to do.

3). Japanese PM Shinzo Abe did not visit the Yasakuni war shrine this time. Japan is a peaceful nation that has spent the past 60+ years peacefully building an advanced and extremely wealthy country and population and in developing Japanese style democracy. Japan provoking no one. Japanese culture is popular throughout East Asia and promotes positive attitudes in the region towards Japan. Japan is a principal target of Beijing's designs to become the regional power of East Asia. Japan, by being Japan, stands in Beijing's way. This will not change.

4) The CCP spends more on internal security forces than it does on its armed forces. That's what dictators do.

1) Asians negotiate this way so that the government officials do not fall flat and look stupid later. It's used in business engagements all the time , move the thorny issues aside and anything potentially embarrassing for both sides. The republicans can learn from the CCP on that and avoid what they just did 2 weeks ago. Started with lots of bravado and now looking very very unreliable and reckless, and not thinking of the big picture.

2) Yes anger is quite a human trait and I can only see them take offense to some extreme views, emotive rather than objective at times

3) strange how you put that China thinks Japan is in its way of being Asia superpower. That was exactly the Japanese way of thinking 60 years ago when they attacked USA and China in the hope of neutralizing the 2 biggest threats to it being a regional superpower.

As you put in earlier threads, Japan has the most advanced navy and weaponry on the region and China is correct in its stance in protecting itself and its citizens to ensure a repeat does not happen.

Abe did not visit the shrine for the 3rd time running but he also failed to stop the other politicians from doing so. This act is viewed as a remembrance of its past and makes its neighbors uneasy. the shrine contains remains of 1068 convicted war criminals by its allies including 14 Class A criminals. You don't see Germany or Italy honoring theirs as they know how distasteful this is.

4) Budgets budgets budgets ...get your own house right before it gives you a right to critique the rest of the world how they want to spend their $.

[LawrenceChee]

It's not often that I agree with Publicus and disagree with LawrenceChee on one topic, but calling Japan an aggressive military country prone to further invasions is simply ridiculous - the reference to history is not only laughable but also devoid of any sense of reality . . . beware, Portugal is having a tough time and may again go on a worldwide rampage!!!

Japan has been a model world citizen for the past 60+ years, something that cannot be said for China.

Japan has a civilised society based on order and the rule of law - China advocates mass demonstrations against whichever happens to stoke the nationalist feelings of the day, brutally suppresses minorities and engages in ethnic cleansing of an insidious nature - akin to Indonesia's actions in Irian Jaya.

China is not 'misunderstood', its leaders are scared feces-less of the growing rift between rich/poor, country/city, peasant/educated . . . 100 million un- or underemployed which could severely test the power of the state.

Long may the Communist Party reign because if they ever lose power and 'democracy' steps in we shall all be in trouble.

Holmes concluded that whoever best combined sea, land and air forces stood a good chance of winning a conflict.

This is the important factor, a combination of the three arms of any military - is paramount and comparing sheer numbers is useless . . .

It saddens me to say this, especially as an ex Navy Lt (subs), but the Navy is now by far the least effective and important aspect of any military - it can disrupt but its effectiveness has been marginalised by medium and long range missiles.

On the final point in your post concerning the Navy as a modern fighting force, Navies are becoming the main combat and battle force of many Western countries. The Japanese continue to focus on their Navy with the Air Force and the Army in supporting roles. Australia is moving decisively in the same direction. Asean countries are building their navies, as is India. So is the CCP-PRC.

In the strategic war plan of the United States presently and going forward, the Navy and the Air Force are the paramount military forces. The Marines remain important while the Army is being downgraded as a component of combat and battle, war.

The AirSea Battle strategy of the US going forward focuses on the Navy and Air Force as a joint coordinated strike force, The US will fight its future battles and wars based on sophisticated integrated Air and Sea forces, supported by Marine forces. The Army is now a remote backup force. What good is an Army in Asia? Think Vietnam, as one instance - and of course Iraq and Afghanistan.

I speak of conventional warfare.

Ultimately, it is the US Navy that has more nuclear weapons than either the Air Force or the Army. It is the US Navy that has this awesome and destructive force in numbers and in decisive force. It is the Navy that will deploy and take the coordinated lead in any nuclear warfare, supported by the Air Force.

The military commander in chief of all US forces in the Asia Pacific Theater is a navy four-star admiral headquartered at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (presently a Japanese-American).

To the United States, the Navy is the central combat force of present and, increasingly, future warfare both conventional and nuclear.

So fret not, my former naval friend. Even tho I was Army, I recognize present and future realities. For me its simple reality, but for you I can understand that some sentiment is involved. And your specialty, submarines, are integral to the whole thing.

New US destroyer deployed against China's Anti-Access strategy: US Navy

Concept art of the Zumwalt-class stealth destroyers in operation. (Internet Photo)

The primary function of the US Navy Zumwalt-class stealth destroyers recently deployed to the Asia Pacific region is to counter the anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities of China, reports party mouthpiece Global Times.

The new surface combat vessel is considered the future of the US Navy by admiral Jonathan Greenert, chief of naval operations, and will play an important role in supporting president Barack Obama's Asia Pivot Strategy.

The 15,000-ton USS Elmo Zumwalt DDG-1000's stealth design is able to reduce radar and sonar detection to the lowest levels of any destroyer in the world. It would be able to engage against Chinese warships in a littoral (shallower coastal waters) combat environment. The vessel's deadliest weapon system is its electronic rail gun that fires using electromagnetic pulses.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20131017000112

This article best summarizes it all ...no matter how sophisticated the US Navy is and how battle plans look good in grids and charts, it's still ultimately the officers that bear the conduct of its operations.

As a fellow military man, it's sad to see someone with this amount of responsibility of being 2nd in command of nuclear weapons falling short of the integrity needed.

This fall in humanity is at times the biggest risk when compared to a fool up in North Korea who likes to ramble and most people understand he does it for food rather than any real claims.

Moderates understand the real threat of having someone in charge of nuclear weapons falling short in a casino or gambling ...the late Tom Clancy can spin a better tale compared to a lunatic leader from the North Korea that does not have the sophisticated weaponry he often threatens or the guys to carry it out.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24470259

[SinglePot]

"As you put in earlier threads, Japan has the most advanced navy and weaponry on the region and China is correct in its stance in protecting itself and its citizens to ensure a repeat does not happen."

A point of view on this from objective posters appreciated.

Is Japan acting threateningly towards China in 2013? I was under the impression Japan is complying willingly and successfully with international treaties requiring the opposite.

[MantisMan]

It's called 'deflection'.

In good old Great Britain we have a very well known political commentator called Jeremy Paxman whose most famous saying is "Answer the question"

An interview with Paxman and Xi Jinping about the China Sea would be good value.

China would never expose themselves to rigorous interrogation though, so it won't happen.

It's time for the international community to stand up against the Bullies from Beijing.

On many issues, not just the China Sea.

Who do you consider to be the "international community" to stand up to Beijing?

Both Hong Kong and Taiwan are a lot more like Japan in may ways, including a higher standard of living, 99% literacy, various industries and so forth and both look down at China and Mainlanders as being nothing more than country bumpkins.

As of now, Hong Kong has it's fair share of trouble with it's neighbor to the North, but when the sh*t hits the fan, as in the Diaoyu Island situation, both country/city-state nations will back Beijing all the way. Keep in mind, they have those islands recorded in 16th century Chinese chronicles.

Japan does not. They claimed those islands after the war.

With Okinawa, they are more Chinese/Taiwanese then they are Japanese in culture and music. Matter of fact, Okinawans call

themselves Ryuku-jin. They hate mainland Japan with a passion.

I've lived in both Japan and Hong Kong for a number of years and one thing for certain, they (HK and TW) will never forget what happened during the war.

I understand the term 'country bumpkins' but can you explain 'when the sh*t hits the fan'.

When what sh*t hits what fan?

Cheers.

Hi, I'm referring to a time, in the near future though I'm only guessing the time frame, that when HK or TW must take sides between China or Japan, it will be China.

I was using the Diaoyu Island as an example. I have HK in-laws and made jokes and teases about Japan as "Sekai ichi-ban!" (Japan is number one in the world!).

I soon not only found my brother and sister-in laws cursing me in the most vile of Cantonese phrases, but also they, and the most hard hitting of all, blocked me out of WhatsApp family group.

Yep, no more family gossip for me.

[MantisMan]

"As you put in earlier threads, Japan has the most advanced navy and weaponry on the region and China is correct in its stance in protecting itself and its citizens to ensure a repeat does not happen."

A point of view on this from objective posters appreciated.

Is Japan acting threateningly towards China in 2013? I was under the impression Japan is complying willingly and successfully with international treaties requiring the opposite.

Of course I could be wrong here, but their behavior about Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands is appalling. But then again, those Japanese folks going out on those islands and waving the "Hi no Maru" are usually ultra right wingers. It's not uncommon for local government officials to hire them out to do not only thug work like breaking knees, but also stupid things like waving the flag in front to international cameras. (well, maybe not so stupid for some to wave their countries flag).

And now, Prime Minister Abe is quite confrontational with China.

They STILL won't respect other Asian countries feelings about the Japanese Class One War criminals being buried in Yasukuni Shrine with Prime Ministers worshiping there once a year. Hell, all they need do is remove the bodies and place them elsewhere.

By not doing so, that is considered a slap in the face of Chinese, Philippines and Koreans who suffered at Japanese atrocities.

Those islands belong to Taiwan if anybody at all, then secondly, China.

The Northern Islands above Hokkaido belong to Russia.

Tsushima (between Busan, Korea and Kyushu Japan) belongs to Korea.

Okinawa, long time US military occupied region, may indeed belong to Taiwan, then China.

Japan has recently become more hawkish in its rhetoric but I think only because the US is standing behind them, close at hand.

Edited October 21, 2013 by MantisMan

[SinglePot]

Fact is Mantis, If China starts getting aggressive they will be blown out of the water.

HK and Taiwanese with a vengeance will be as much use to Beijing as a bent chopstick.

[LawrenceChee]

Fact is Mantis, If China starts getting aggressive they will be blown out of the water.

HK and Taiwanese with a vengeance will be as much use to Beijing as a bent chopstick.

Been watching too much Saving Private Ryan ? The days of fear when the western powers can blow someone out of the water is long gone

We were talking abut being less aggressive right ?

It seems these days this is a rather weird dilemma ...the west have the best weaponry but fear having troops on the ground as they know they won't win while China and North Korea has the most troops in the world but less high tech bombs and missiles

I am betting on the history realms that China would come out tops ..technology never seem to beat man ...

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SinglePot]

If China gets aggressive in the East China Sea there will be only one military and honourable winner.

China was left in the dark ages with a vengeance...and is pitiful.

Hence the belligerent aggression from Beijing.

[LawrenceChee]

If China gets aggressive in the East China Sea there will be only one military and honourable winner.

China was left in the dark ages with a vengeance...and is pitiful.

Hence the belligerent aggression from Beijing.

I do admire the stoic determination to see China get in a war and get blasted

Sadly it will not happen as the Chinese is more keen to make money than start a war that will consume much resources and make nothing

Japan on the other hand is quiet and dangerous much like a viper snake. They have done it in the past and can surprise you again

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SinglePot]

China is very keen to make money. Fairly obvious to everybody.

But China is also very keen to assert itself.

That's where the beauracrat bully boys from Beijing in their counterfeit black Buicks come in.

Loud and dangerous.

[Publicus]

"As you put in earlier threads, Japan has the most advanced navy and weaponry on the region and China is correct in its stance in protecting itself and its citizens to ensure a repeat does not happen."

A point of view on this from objective posters appreciated.

Is Japan acting threateningly towards China in 2013? I was under the impression Japan is complying willingly and successfully with international treaties requiring the opposite.

Of course I could be wrong here, but their behavior about Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands is appalling. But then again, those Japanese folks going out on those islands and waving the "Hi no Maru" are usually ultra right wingers. It's not uncommon for local government officials to hire them out to do not only thug work like breaking knees, but also stupid things like waving the flag in front to international cameras. (well, maybe not so stupid for some to wave their countries flag).

And now, Prime Minister Abe is quite confrontational with China.

They STILL won't respect other Asian countries feelings about the Japanese Class One War criminals being buried in Yasukuni Shrine with Prime Ministers worshiping there once a year. Hell, all they need do is remove the bodies and place them elsewhere.

By not doing so, that is considered a slap in the face of Chinese, Philippines and Koreans who suffered at Japanese atrocities.

Those islands belong to Taiwan if anybody at all, then secondly, China.

The Northern Islands above Hokkaido belong to Russia.

Tsushima (between Busan, Korea and Kyushu Japan) belongs to Korea.

Okinawa, long time US military occupied region, may indeed belong to Taiwan, then China.

Japan has recently become more hawkish in its rhetoric but I think only because the US is standing behind them, close at hand.

Japan possesses the Senkaku Islands so it has the right to name them too, so this business of calling them Diaoyu is OTT (yes, the MSN do it too). I'd suggest you tell your relatives they're all wet, but then from what you say about them, they'd probably cut your tongue out, so I'll pass on any such suggestion.

Beijing is the initiator of a consistent campaign of harassment and aggression against Japan on the sea and in the air. Japan is thus forced to respond in order to protect its interests, the Senkaku Islands, against an aggressor bully in the region and in the neighborhood - in the immediate neighborhood.

The island chaos caused by the CCP last year caused Japanese nationals and businesses in the CCP-PRC to be violently assaulted over several days of anti-Japanese rioting led by the Fen Qing, who are notorious for their hate of the Japanese (and everything Western besides, the United States first and foremost). The Fen Qing make Japanese or US rightists look like reasonable, mild mannered, polite Sunday school students.

The PRChinese Fen Qing have been described in terms such as revanchist, xenophobic, chauvinistic, neo-conservative or neo-authoritarian, ultra-nationalistic or nativistic, any one of which, as is obvious, is less than complimentary. There's nothing Japan or anyone can do to change the fenqing in their most extreme state of any form of extremism anywhere.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is standing firmly against CCP and its fenqing's fierce belligerence and aggression in this CCP created dispute. The CCP and its fenqing are determined to create yet another territorial dispute against yet another neighbor, to include flying warplanes around and near the islands and Japanese air space.

If Beijing has a territorial dispute, let the CCP take the matter to the UN Tribunal on the International Law of the Sea, as the Philippines has done against Beijing in the Beijing-initiated dispute over the West Philippine Sea and the Scarborough Shoals. The CCP-PRC is a signatory to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Oh wow, I had forgot - Beijing wrote a caveat to its signature to the Law of the Sea Convention, saying it didn't have to adhere to any provisions of the Convention anytime anything came up that the CCP didn't like. And here I was thinking the CCP in Beijing were responsible participants in an international system that is based on the rule of law.

What wuz I thinking?!

[LawrenceChee]

History dictates the islands belongs to China according to archives and ancient maps. the Japanese were given control of those after WWII.

It's interesting that everyone refers to the UN when it comes to China...everyone knows for a fact that the UN has no bite and no real arbitrary powers except to negotiate and try to talk peace which is exactly what Asians like to do while trading

I didn't see the USA or UK consult the UN before they went for a full out war on Iraq ...history already tells us the fiasco on that one so I don't need to repeat it...that was pure aggression but I guess it is okay when you have the world policeman on duty and on call...as for boycotting of goods ...freedom fries ?

This is exactly what China has been doing on the background with Japan. in spite of the western media portrayal of in high tensions and imminent dangers, the grassroots are still talking to each other even though technically for political sake the 2 leaders are holding firm and not talking in public.

Again this is the Asian Way ...never embarrass the leaders in public not like the dumb mucking of the senate and the house laid bare to see influenced by their donations and extreme views ...silly and undignified I would think as the media left the leaders no place for any decision but to stick to their guns and later admit to a humiliating defeat while the citizens suffer.

There is no estimate as yet on the effects of the shutdown, but the numbers when they appear will be doctored and hardly a true reflection of the people who suffered whether it was their wedding plans when the parks were closed, visas which cannot be processed etc

Asians will continue to talk and talk in the hope that the talk will prolong any danger of a dumb war. China and Vietnam have set up a hotline ...they are active foes on the island disputes but talking is the way, not fighting and demands of immediate actions

One should learn how to meditate like the Asian...you may not get immediate results bit you do stay relevant around for a long long time.

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Publicus]

History dictates the islands belongs to China according to archives and ancient maps. the Japanese were given control of those after WWII.

It's interesting that everyone refers to the UN when it comes to China...everyone knows for a fact that the UN has no bite and no real arbitrary powers except to negotiate and try to talk peace which is exactly what Asians like to do while trading

I didn't see the USA or UK consult the UN before they went for a full out war on Iraq ...history already tells us the fiasco on that one so I don't need to repeat it...that was pure aggression but I guess it is okay when you have the world policeman on duty and on call...as for boycotting of goods ...freedom fries ?

This is exactly what China has been doing on the background with Japan. in spite of the western media portrayal of in high tensions and imminent dangers, the grassroots are still talking to each other even though technically for political sake the 2 leaders are holding firm and not talking in public.

Again this is the Asian Way ...never embarrass the leaders in public not like the dumb mucking of the senate and the house laid bare to see influenced by their donations and extreme views ...silly and undignified I would think as the media left the leaders no place for any decision but to stick to their guns and later admit to a humiliating defeat while the citizens suffer.

There is no estimate as yet on the effects of the shutdown, but the numbers when they appear will be doctored and hardly a true reflection of the people who suffered whether it was their wedding plans when the parks were closed, visas which cannot be processed etc

Asians will continue to talk and talk in the hope that the talk will prolong any danger of a dumb war. China and Vietnam have set up a hotline ...they are active foes on the island disputes but talking is the way, not fighting and demands of immediate actions

One should learn how to meditate like the Asian...you may not get immediate results bit you do stay relevant around for a long long time.

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

History dictates? It's the CCP that dictates.

Japan rightfully will not be dictated to.

And elitist dictators and the admirers of dictatorship not only hate and disrespect the messiness of democracy, you hate and disrespect democracy itself. What recently occurred in Washington is an aberration anyway, caused by the Republican party and its fanaticism about ObamaCare. The CCP needs to provide ObamaCare at a minimum, which is does not do, never mind equaling any medical and health care systems Western countries have, which the CCP doesn't do either.

Your recurring and regular talk about the West needing to emulate Asians and of how Asian ways are superior makes you sound like a Fen Qing.

Are you a Fen Qing?

You'd have a hard time convincing me you are not a Fen Qing.

[Bkungbank]

I don't agreed with Chinese to bullied it's neighbor but please studied history that the Chinese palace have been robbed during Ching Dynasty and some of the poof still sits in your museum today .Nanking massacre was a great lesson for Chinese to protect themselves please don't forget Russian the big giant during Syria resolution China and Russia are the same tone.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. I think we have had enough deflections on the US and the UK for the time being. The thread is about Japan's assertion that China and North Korea are a threat.

The US health care system doesn't quite meet the criteria of a post that should remain visible.

[NeverSure]

It's called 'deflection'.

In good old Great Britain we have a very well known political commentator called Jeremy Paxman whose most famous saying is "Answer the question"

An interview with Paxman and Xi Jinping about the China Sea would be good value.

China would never expose themselves to rigorous interrogation though, so it won't happen.

It's time for the international community to stand up against the Bullies from Beijing.

On many issues, not just the China Sea.

Who do you consider to be the "international community" to stand up to Beijing?

Both Hong Kong and Taiwan are a lot more like Japan in may ways, including a higher standard of living, 99% literacy, various industries and so forth and both look down at China and Mainlanders as being nothing more than country bumpkins.

As of now, Hong Kong has it's fair share of trouble with it's neighbor to the North, but when the sh*t hits the fan, as in the Diaoyu Island situation, both country/city-state nations will back Beijing all the way. Keep in mind, they have those islands recorded in 16th century Chinese chronicles.

Japan does not. They claimed those islands after the war.

With Okinawa, they are more Chinese/Taiwanese then they are Japanese in culture and music. Matter of fact, Okinawans call

themselves Ryuku-jin. They hate mainland Japan with a passion.

I've lived in both Japan and Hong Kong for a number of years and one thing for certain, they (HK and TW) will never forget what happened during the war.

That's accurate to say, and it's because the people of the region don't ever have the thought to forgive and forget, or, if one can't forget, at least to forgive. Hence, the old grudges, hates, passion for revenge are never ending, self-perpetuating, virulent.

The CCP in Beijing exploits this and uses nationalism as a strategy and tactic to gain the legitimacy and support of the PRChinese sheeple, who love and thrive on the CCP promise to settle old scores against neighbors, to obtain vengeance, and to humiliate its traditional and historical enemies of thousands of years, who also have been enemies during the past century especially and in particular.

This is the vicious cycle. It contrasts to the virtuous cycle, which focuses on and develops the positive in hopes of constructing a better future..

The vicious cycle perpetuates anger and a passion of revenge and a drive to settle old scores. This consumes the consciousness, time and effort of both the CCP in Beijing, which uses these nationalist and ethnic emotions cynically to promote its own rule, and exploits the time, thoughts and attention of the population. It warps the school curriculum and what passes in the CCP-PRC for an education system, which in fact infects the popular mind and emotions with a passion for vengeance and "payback" which, as has been said and continues to be said in the CCP-PRC, is a "bitch."

All this leads to nowhere good or positive for either the present or the future and adversely impacts all of us.

It's a destructive win-lose mindset held and developed by backward thinking people and their leaders because it dwells in negativity and hate. A society predicated in large part on win-lose revenge and settling old scores is a menace to the civilized world and to a peaceful, prosperous and relatively stable international order.

The shameless propagandists and pernicious, never ending advocates of vengeance and settling old scores endanger all of us.

They need to be rebuked and neutralized, consigned to the trash heap of history lest they realize their purpose of pursuing endless and recurring conflict, to include possibly ethnic cleansing.

Whatever happened to learning win-win?

Yep. Contrast this with "civilized" countries such as the First World Allies after WWII, who not only "forgave," but helped reconstruct Germany and Japan and Italy and others. There is no conflict left there, not even simmering under the surface. Sure there is economic rivalry to some extent, but nothing that would hint of a possible military conflict.

But Second World Allies led by Russia (or the USSR) continued to cause strife and refused to join with the First World to this day.

These neanderthals with their pterodactyls have no clue that peace and cooperation would benefit them. They think the only thing that could benefit them is "gimme."

Let me remind again that the US has treaties with every nation in Asia that isn't aligned with China to defend them. That's everything from Australia and NZ to S. Korea and surrounds.

Thailand is a mental outlier. It can't decide whose side it's on and the allies are tired of it. Thailand apparently thinks that China is the next big thing and wants to be part of that, apparently not realizing that China eats small countries for lunch once allowed in the door. This is costing Thailand dearly, but they can't see it. The allies are no longer loyal to Thailand and that especially includes Japan and the US who recently bitch slapped Thailand over the location of the deep water port. Yingluck, in reported recent informal talks with Japan's Abe, seems brain dead about that little fact.

If China attacks it's going to get flattened. It knows it. It's working feverishly to develop new weapons without success, and by the time it has anything near what the West has, the West will have something to defeat that.

All China can do is posture, and it knows it. If N. Korea pushes its luck too far, it will get flattened.

And I don't believe that the fact that the missile location is "too close to China" matters one hoot. If it needs to be taken out, it will.

[SinglePot]

Yep. The slippery snake with its posturing would have a hard time.

As for conventions and the Law of the Sea....the Chinese Way.

Stubborn and determined to have their own way.

[LawrenceChee]

Yep. The slippery snake with its posturing would have a hard time.

As for conventions and the Law of the Sea....the Chinese Way.

Stubborn and determined to have their own way.

Good descrip on the first line of the Japanese who hoodwinked everyone in their gentle and peaceful ways during WWII

I wonder of u have been to the shrine ...maybe if you visited you can understand why the Chinese are uncomfortable along with the South Koreans ...they remember the past and know the Japanese being the strongest in the military here in the region and the need of oil resources make them the danger and threat again ....

Good to have a strong china to protect their own interests

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SinglePot]

Something I have noticed Lawrence on this and many other China related issues, is the constant references to historical events which are used to support and condone modern day China's attitudes and behaviour.

I don't know how best to describe it. Revenge, assertion, I don't know. It's like China has a chip on its shoulder.

Why can not China dump the past and move forward without all this historical baggage?

Maybe the one party system is not conducive to forward thinking. A bit of challenge to ingrained thought processes?

I appreciate that the democratic system in the US is having a tough time at the moment, so please don't come back with China system is more effective than Western.

[MantisMan]

I don't know how best to describe it. Revenge, assertion, I don't know. It's like China has a chip on its shoulder.

Why can not China dump the past and move forward without all this historical baggage?

They can't do that any more then HK'ers, Taiwanese, Phillipino's and Koreans.

I lived in Japan for 20 years and they are Xenophobic and proud of it. They have a term "Sakoku" which means "Isolated". They have, even to this day an isolated attitude and use it as justification or even an excuse to DO or not DO this or that.

They look at Koreans and Chinese as Americans look at Mexicans. They even have the same jokes and vulgar comments.

To this day, they still do not recognize the War Prostitutes from China and Korea as victims of a Government Sanctioned Act but lie and say they volunteered when in fact, it was Japanese women who volunteered for prostitution when the Americans occupied the country.

These other Asian nations will NEVER forget, ever. It's in their blood. Let's give an example. Say you had a grandpa who survived the tortures in some bamboo cage in Sai Pan during the war. Do you think he will forgive the Japanese?

I've meet people who were brutalized by the Japanese. They don't forget.

They are taught in school to be the victims of the Atomic bombings and not the instigators as we (Americans) are brainwashed to believe.

Hell, no country deserves two A-bombings, but that is another topic in itself. The are not taught "Oh yes indeed, we deserved two bombs on our heads, because we were brutal during the war."

On second note, why should Japan cry and whine for the return of the Northern Islands from Russia when in fact, they ( the Japanese) are doing the same exact thing with the Diaoyu Islands? They claimed them after the war as did the Russians with in the North.

Sounds like double standards to me.

[Scott]

It wold appear that the discussion has drifted way, way off topic and is now basically violating forum rules. There is little being offered except for racist remarks about China/Chinese and Japan/Japanese. This is not permitted under forum rules.

//Closed//