Uk Partner Visa

[MarkBKK]

Has anyone here ever had a Thai partner apply for and get a UK Partner visa? Is it really as simple as meeting the criteria on the embassy web site?

PS And why does the topic title seem to auto-format itself so ''UK'' and ''visa'' are incorrectly capped?

PPS Before a kindly mod moves this to the Visa section, my partner is a katoey so it seems more appropriate to post it here.

Edited April 6, 2006 by MarkBKK

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks for the explanation about your partner. I can't explain the capital letters thing.

So, you are a UK citizen residing in Thailand, and you are seeking what kind of visa from the UK? Your boyfriend is a Thai living in Thailand, and he's gay, right? By katoey, do you mean (s)he'll show up for the interview wearing female clothes, talking in a high voice and gesturing like a very camp gay man? Is (s)he pre-op?

Can you prove your b/f will return to Thailand after visiting the UK? I literally mean "prove" if the UK is as strict as the USA is; the burden of proof is upon the visitor, to prove they'll go back home.

I dunno, but I think those are the pertinent questions. Thanks.

[MarkBKK]

Thanks for the explanation about your partner. I can't explain the capital letters thing.

So, you are a UK citizen residing in Thailand, and you are seeking what kind of visa from the UK? Your boyfriend is a Thai living in Thailand, and he's gay, right? By katoey, do you mean (s)he'll show up for the interview wearing female clothes, talking in a high voice and gesturing like a very camp gay man? Is (s)he pre-op?

Can you prove your b/f will return to Thailand after visiting the UK? I literally mean "prove" if the UK is as strict as the USA is; the burden of proof is upon the visitor, to prove they'll go back home.

I dunno, but I think those are the pertinent questions. Thanks.

''The struggle of class against class is a what struggle? ... a what struggle?''

I maybe should have been clearer so people not from the UK could understand. A UK Partner visa is a class of visa available to partners of UK citizens. The criteria seem pretty lax compared to other visa types and don't include very much at all, hence the question. According to the published criteria it seems too easy -- pretty much down to if you can prove you've been living together for two years and a couple of other things.

My girlfriend will be attending the interview (as and when and if) dressed as she normally dresses and with a passport that says ''male'' in Thai. Why on earth would she sound and look like a camp scene queen (dearie)? You really should get out more!

Katoey roughly equating to ''third sex'' is pretty much a thing of the past in Bangkok in my experience. It's pretty much only used for LBs (TSs/TGs, not to be confused, as they so often are with the completely different TV/Drag Queen ends of the market). YMMV, of course. As to pre-op/post-op, it's irrelevant.

I'd love to take you out one night in Bangkok ... or London ... or Tokyo so you can refer to certain people I know as ''him'' and ''he'' in their earshot! Sorry -- a lot of straight and gay men make that mistake. One of the drawbacks/advantages of being a more minority group than the poor old bisexuals

[Guest endure]

I think you're probably better off posting in the visa forum. One of the regulars there (scouser) used to be a UK Immigration Officer and is hugely helpful to all those with visa questions. Just explain your situation and I'm sure he'll tell you what you need to know.

[GU22]

There are two types of visa that would cover you and your partner.

An unmarried partners visa. To qualify you must be able to show that you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years.

A civil partners visa. This will allow your partner to travel to the UK so the two of you can register a civil partnership. He then applies (in the UK) for further leave to remain and then after a further two years for indefinite leave to remain.

See Guidance - Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4)

If you have any further questions I suggest that you post them in the visas and migration to other countries forum where you will probably get more replies.

[DUMPSTER]

Your partner being male, must be your b/f, right? Just because he chooses to wear womens clothes doesnt make him your g/f. If he is pre op, then no matter what he wears, he is still a male and until, correct me if im wrong, he has the op and his passport is changed to female, in the eyes of the law he will always be your b/f.

I am not one for labelling people as this or that but obviously we need some criteria for such things like law.

Anyway good luck with the visa.

[MarkBKK]

Your partner being male, must be your b/f, right? Just because he chooses to wear womens clothes doesnt make him your g/f. If he is pre op, then no matter what he wears, he is still a male and until, correct me if im wrong, he has the op and his passport is changed to female, in the eyes of the law he will always be your b/f.

I am not one for labelling people as this or that but obviously we need some criteria for such things like law.

Anyway good luck with the visa.

I assume you've popped over here from Bangkok Tonite

''I am not one for labelling people as this or that ...'' Er, right ...

I'll ask in the visa section. Might be easier.

[boybrat]

oh mark. u are ///(edit by PeaceBlondie)///such an interesting person////

No insults necessary.

[DUMPSTER]

Just had to google Bangkok Tonite! never heard of it. Maybe I need to get out more, maybe not.

Mark, your boy/girl wannabe is a boy, in the eyes of the law as it stands now, as far as I am aware. All forms you fill in you will tick male.

Of course what you choose to call him is your perogative. What you choose to call me is also your perogative too.

Personally I dont like words like Katoey, rice queen, drag queen, TV, TG or LB etc.

Don't be so defensive about your partner. You sound a bit insecure. Unless your partner looks convincing as a girl he's gonna get more looks and comments in the UK especially when you are pushing your trolley round Tescos.

Edited April 7, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[ChrisP]

I'm applying now just for a UK Tourist Visa for my (quite fem) bf. I'll let you know how it goes.. but we have a HUGE amount of paperwork to get together.. to prove our 2-year relationship etc etc.

Mark, I'd be happy to go out with you one night in BKK.. I actually like fem/katoey guys.. But I honestly think you can expect SOME eyebrows raised at the British Embassy when he shows up dressed as a girl. My bf isn't katoey, but does dress very fem too..

Good luck!

Chris P.

PS the Forum Software program automatically chooses caps etc for Topic Titles.

Boring... I know.

[MarkBKK]

I'm applying now just for a UK Tourist Visa for my (quite fem) bf. I'll let you know how it goes.. but we have a HUGE amount of paperwork to get together.. to prove our 2-year relationship etc etc.

Mark, I'd be happy to go out with you one night in BKK.. I actually like fem/katoey guys.. But I honestly think you can expect SOME eyebrows raised at the British Embassy when he shows up dressed as a girl. My bf isn't katoey, but does dress very fem too..

Good luck!

Chris P.

PS the Forum Software program automatically chooses caps etc for Topic Titles.

Boring... I know.

ChrisP: Good luck with the tourist visa. Do you need to prove a two year relationship for a tourist visa? I thought that was for the Partner visa ... and I gave up worrying/noticing raised eyebrows long ago

Anytime you fancy a pint drop me a PM.

Life, as they say, is a game. Those that play in my corner (the corner I chose to play in, not that it's all mine!) choose to refer to LBs, TVs, TSs (etc.) as ''she'' and ''her''. That's what they have chosen. That's what they prefer. Almost universally they consider it an insult to be called ''he'' or ''him''.

Constantly referring to them as ''he'' or ''him'' is a bit like going out with your mates and constantly having your boyfriend referred to as your ''gay'' friend. E.g. ''Would your gay friend like a drink?'', ''Are you and you gay friend staying for another?'' and so on. Obviously her passport, ID card and presence of a Y chromasome indicate that she's biologically male, but if she prefers to be called ''she'', then <deleted>. Go with the flow. I've long thought that only those who are very insecure of their own sexuality consider it so important to get gender labels so factually correct all the time.

boybrat: Didn't realise I'd insulted anyone, I apologise if I did (well ... I suppose the dig about BKKTonite was a bit below the belt )

Dumpster: Didn't realise I'd called you anything.

(Just wandering off on my own for a minute, but I find it interesting that without an exception I can think of, all my straight, gay and bisexual friends in London -- a self-selecting group, of course -- have no problems referring to the M to F transgendered, or whatever you want to call them, as ''she'' and ''her '', but on every bulletin board/web forum I've seen in or about Thailand -- which must have more LBs per square yard than anywhere else on earth -- even in sections labelled ''Gay'' or ''Ladyboy'', there always seem to be many people who insist on pointing out at every single available opportunity that ''They're blokes, you know''.)

[Ijustwannateach]

Is it almost like a spouse visa, or the equivalent of a spouse visa? If so, the usual questions will apply- you should have plenty of photos of both of you together, at home, on trips, etc.; be able to answer very personal questions about each other showing you know each other very well, and so forth. I assume none of this will be any problem for either of you. It might be more complicated than you think (which is why it might be left rather vague on the website) and I would guess that it involves a lengthy series of interviews and a waiting period.

A friend of mine who's trying to get a visa for his wife (he has a 5 year old child) to the U.K. is having to go through tons of paperwork and financial proofs- I would think your process will be just as lengthy. Good luck, though, and let us know how it goes.

"Steven"

P.S. On the labels thing- I think anyone has the right to be called whatever he/she wants to be called, but I don't think the defensiveness (on either side) is helpful. Those who choose not to conform should not be surprised when they have a lot of explanations to make, and gays (of all people) should know to be patient and open-minded when they encounter difference.

[GU22]

For a tourist visa you do not need a 2 year relationship. However, if the reason for the visit is your relationship then you do need to show that the relationship is genuine. If the ECO is satisfied that the relationship is genuine and therefore the reason for the visit is genuine then they are far more likely to issue a tourist visa, even if there is no concrete reason (such as a job) to return.

A civil partners visa is the same as a fiance visa. It allows the holder to travel to the UK to register a civil partnership with their sponsor, which must be done within the 6 month life of the visa. The only difference is that a civil partners visa is for same sex couples whereas a fiance visa is for different sex couples. There is no minimum time the relationship has to have been going, but you must satisfy the ECO that it is genuine.

An unmarried partners visa can be used for gay or straight couples. It is for couples that do not wish to marry or register a civil partnership. It is this type of visa where you need to prove that you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least 2 years.

The ECOs job is to see if applicants satisfy the criteria for the visa they are applying for. They are not there to pass judgement on the applicants lifestyle choices. Believe me, they have seen it all before.

I don't know about Thai law, but am 99.9% sure that under UK law a transsexual keeps the sex they were born with, no matter how much surgery they have had. It is perfectly understandable for you to refer to your partner as 'she' and 'her', but in the eyes of UK law she is a he! It may not be right nor fair, but I'm afraid that it is the law.

[Guest endure]

Your partner being male, must be your b/f, right? Just because he chooses to wear womens clothes doesnt make him your g/f. If he is pre op, then no matter what he wears, he is still a male and until, correct me if im wrong, he has the op and his passport is changed to female, in the eyes of the law he will always be your b/f.

I am not one for labelling people as this or that but obviously we need some criteria for such things like law.

Anyway good luck with the visa.

I assume you've popped over here from Bangkok Tonite

''I am not one for labelling people as this or that ...'' Er, right ...

I'll ask in the visa section. Might be easier.

I think the main point of Dumpster's post was the fact that the law will regard your partner as male regardless of the clothes she wears.

[PeaceBlondie]

My apologies for calling a katoey "he." By now, I should know better.

[DUMPSTER]

spot on endure.

[MarkBKK]

An unmarried partners visa can be used for gay or straight couples. It is for couples that do not wish to marry or register a civil partnership. It is this type of visa where you need to prove that you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least 2 years.

...

I don't know about Thai law, but am 99.9% sure that under UK law a transsexual keeps the sex they were born with, no matter how much surgery they have had. It is perfectly understandable for you to refer to your partner as 'she' and 'her', but in the eyes of UK law she is a he! It may not be right nor fair, but I'm afraid that it is the law.

Yes, it's for unmarried couples. But compared to a tourist visa it seems so easy -- and I've heard they can be hard to get. I just wondered if anyone had any experience of getting one (and if it was as easy for same sex couples). I thought this would be a good place to ask. Being a <deleted> with a camera I've got photos going back over two years and we've got house rental agreements (in both our names) going back just over two years.

AFAICR, when I bothered to check last, there are about two countries in the world that allow you to change your sex (legally). England and Thailand aren't either of them (100 per cent certain).

I would imagine that in Bangkok the embassy has seen it all before -- at least twice! (Another reason I thought here would be a good place to ask.)

I'm sorry Dumpster, if that was your point, I missed it. ''Your partner being male, must be your b/f, right? Just because he chooses to wear womens clothes doesn't make him your g/f.'' Well, actually, yes it does (make him my girlfriend). The law's the law (I seem to remember reading in 2000AD), but I thought this was the caring ''Gay People In Thailand'' forum, not the local DNA/Gender Cop Shop! Stop being so 20th century

Endure: ''I think the main point of Dumpster's post was the fact that the law will regard your partner as male regardless of the clothes she wears.'' Yes, you're quite right (except for the couple of countries I can't remember the names of ... that's what Google's for), that's why I asked ...

PeaceBlondie: ''My apologies for calling a katoey "he." By now, I should know better.'' No sleight taken, mainly because of your avatar

[ChrisP]

Thanks GU22 for your reply and great info here.

ChrisP

[GU22]

Yes, it's for unmarried couples.

How do I qualify to join my unmarried or same sex partner in the UK?

You and your unmarried or same sex partner must show that:

any previous marriage, civil partnership or similar relationship, has permanently broken down

you have been living together in a relationship similar to marriage or civil partnership for two years or more

you have suitable accommodation which is owned or lived in only by you and your household, and where you and your dependants can live without any help from public funds

you can support yourselves and any dependants without any help from public funds

you intend to live together permanently

your partner is not under 18, and

you are not under 18.

The Entry Clearance Officer will need to see evidence of a two-year relationship. This may include:

documents showing joint commitments, such as bank accounts, investments, rent agreements or mortgages

letters linking you to the same address, and

official records of your address, such as your National Insurance card or health card.

At first, you will be allowed to stay and work in the UK for two years. Near the end of this time, if you are still partners and intend to continue living together, you can apply to stay permanently in the UK.

If you and your unmarried or same-sex partner have been living together outside the UK for four years or more, and they have been a British citizen for four years or more, there will be no time limit on how long you can stay in the UK.

It is that simple, apart from an EEA Family permit it's probably the easiest visa to get. Provided you can show you've been living together for the 2 years and can support and accommodate yourselves in the UK without recourse to public funds. Edited April 7, 2006 by GU22

[Guest endure]

That's remarkably civilised. Makes you proud to be British

[DUMPSTER]

MarkBKK wrote.

I'm sorry Dumpster, if that was your point, I missed it. ''Your partner being male, must be your b/f, right? Just because he chooses to wear womens clothes doesn't make him your g/f.'' Well, actually, yes it does (make him my girlfriend). The law's the law (I seem to remember reading in 2000AD), but I thought this was the caring ''Gay People In Thailand'' forum, not the local DNA/Gender Cop Shop! Stop being so 20th century.

As I said you can call your partner what you want but that doesn't mean others will do the same.

I have a b/f but my mother still cant bring herself to say bf. It was, how's your friend in the beginning of our relationship and maybe 1 year later it's now, how's (name). If your partner is obviously a guy in a dress then many, i'm assuming here, would find it difficult to call him your girlfriend. Yes your friends will, of course, but a stranger might be a bit confused as to what to call your partner. Maybe that's oh so 20th century thinking but it's also called reality.

I think we have all played "is that a he or a she?" I would say I can normally spot a TG 90 times out of 100. Do I see them as women? To be honset, I dont. I see them as guys who have changed roles/sexes. I see them as guys doing their best to behave feminine but never quite pulling it off. Am I judging them for that? Not in the sense that I think it's wrong. Each to their own way and everyone must find their own way to find happiness.

Some great info GU22. I hope somebody posts about their experiences about applying for the aforementioned types of visas, especially civil partnerships. What's looks doable on paper can, in reality, prove very difficult to achieve.

[ProThaiExpat]

A compliment is an almost effortless way to make someone pleased with himself and I urge all to use them as often as possible to make the world a happier place, even if only momentarily.

When meeting a male dressed as a female or an obviously effeminate male, I always use female pronouns, usually met with great delight. Most certainly the contrary for masculine men, I certainly don't enjoy gays who use the female pronoun when referring to me or most of my gay friends even though it is usually without malice, just a "gay thing".

[GU22]

Some great info GU22.

Thanks, but I should point out that there are regular posters in the immigration forum who could and would have given the same advice if the query had been posted there.

I hope somebody posts about their experiences about applying for the aforementioned types of visas, especially civil partnerships. What's looks doable on paper can, in reality, prove very difficult to achieve.

I know of several couples on another forum who have successfully applied for a CP visa or an unmarried partners one. Most of these have been issued with a short interview, or even no interview. As with any visa, all you have to do is show that you meet the criteria.

////Rest of post edited by PB////

[hatrick]

Thanks for the explanation about your partner. I can't explain the capital letters thing.

So, you are a UK citizen residing in Thailand, and you are seeking what kind of visa from the UK? Your boyfriend is a Thai living in Thailand, and he's gay, right? By katoey, do you mean (s)he'll show up for the interview wearing female clothes, talking in a high voice and gesturing like a very camp gay man? Is (s)he pre-op?

If your partner has a reguklar income as in salary shown in her bank account and possibly owns property or is a director of a company and you can prove you have known your partner for two years (request copies of emails or any little communicatiosn which ca nbe dated - then no probs! You are absolutely right to be upfront exactly what your relationship is with your partner - they dont like bullshit!

[GU22]

If your partner has a reguklar income as in salary shown in her bank account and possibly owns property or is a director of a company..........

Completely unnecessary.

For any settlement visa the applicant does not need to have any money at all; as long as the sponsor can show that they can support and accommodate themselves without recourse to public funds. Certainly there is no need for the applicant to have a job in Thailand; even if they did have a job they'd be quitting it as they are going to the UK to live.

[Allyt]

I cannot read any more posts on this subject without adding my comments.

Many people on this forum make subjective remarks about Transsexual (TS) people, which if you care to research includes M-F & F-M of various stages of transition. The word GENDER I have not seen used in this forum as a clear distinction from sexuality but it is this very word that many of you are struggling with.

Sexuallity as suggested at the opening of this topic is seen on a continuum. However, people with letters after their names and many years of schooling declare that Gender is not on a continuum and there is not a 3rd gender ( or 4th or 5th ). Guys can be effeminate and girls can be butch but there are just 2 genders. (Sorry if this is a wet blanket for those who want to think they are a new gender)

If people continue to use the term sex instead of gender then they are likely to extend the whole confusion for the readers and themselves. Besides, life is not like the post / sorting office pigeon hole system, every person on this planet is unique and therefore to brand, label or stereo-type any person whether they be male or female with what ever position on the sliding (continuously) scale of sexuality is quite niaive.

Passports- Another misguided & ill researched reply refers to the UK as not enabling folks to change their gender status. - WRONG! For many years it has been possible ( post surgery) for a UK TS to change their passport and every other document of legal status. However, only recently has it been agreed for UK TS's to be able to change their birth certificates.

TS in many countries are allowed to change their legal status and are therefore no longer in effect, prisoners in their own country. However, this cannot be said for folks in Thailand. This country has a long way to go before it enables people to live fully in their trans gendered gender.

For those reading this with empathy I cuddle you, for those reading this with intrigue, I hope you have a warm heart and those who read this with dismay..... well, I want to hug you but you are not going to be happy what ever.

Ally

[jdinasia]

I am all in favor of Tranny rights .... however .. I just don't see them as gay ... so ....

[DUMPSTER]

As for Ts's changing legal status, fine if they must, but changing your birth certificate! If you were born a boy and decide to cut off your bits later in life, that's one thing, but you were still born a boy, therefore that's what your birth certificate should say no matter what surgery you carry out. Don't you think?

[wowpow]

In the last couple of years it seems to have been quite easy to get a tourist visa for a Thai partner. Friends who went with sheaves of proof of relationship found that they were not looked at. Actually one guy went just to enquire what was needed and walked out with a visa. It seemed a lot more difficult with heterosexuals trying to get a visa for their girlfriends.

What will happen now that the UK Embassy has outsourced the Visa Service remains to be seen. I doubt it will have become easier.

[GU22]

If anyone wants to ask advice about visas and immigration, I suggest that they do so in the visas and immigration forums.

In 2004/5, over 93% of applicants to the British embassy in Bangkok were issued a visa, without any hassle.

////edited by PB////