Chulalongkorn Fine and Applied Arts Faculty dean apologizes for Hitler graduation mural

[Jingthing]

I think Hitler actually was obsessed with Jews but he also knew that having scapegoats would be very powerful politically. But I reckon that is debatable

[sdanielmcev]

I wish the Dean would have told the Israelis to bite the big one. One of the things I like about Thais is their resistance to Western ideals. And, yes, that includes Western ideals for education. From what I have seen, most Thais are happy, rid of all the angst that permeates the West. It takes much more skill, wit and courage to avoid a fight. And you think Thais are stupid?

[wilcopops]

What I'm finding increasingly disturbing is the number of people who actually subscribe albeit negatively to Hitlers "credo" - they are happy to talk about race, IQ and concepts of hierarchy as if they have a basis in truth. They also debate which people he was "against" - this is pure drivel.

hitler's regime USED easily identifiable ethnic groups to build up a groundswell of opinion in the German population that was based purely on pseudo-science......in all probability he knew this was all crap, but it enabled him and his party firstly to get into power (democratically) and then in the name of what was "best" for Germany install himself and his party as the only viable rulers of the country.

He wasn't ANTI anything in reality - he just knew how to use these easily identifiable groups to his own advantage.

THis creation of scapegoats is common to virtually all dictatorships, and is so successful it is often adapted by more democratic governments. Demonising sections of society enables unscrupulous governments to get away with blue murder (literally) in the name of "national, security, unity, threats from within etc.0

I'm sure if you think about it you'l see examples iof this all over Europe and America today.

BUT

As I said at the beginning it seems a lot of the posters on this thread are perfect receptacles for this kind of perception of "other" within thioer own society.

All this goes to show that although you can't fool all the people all the time, you don't need to - just fool some of the people some of the time and that is enough to tip the balance in your favour.

It ius debatable but the causes of WW2 were not anti-semitism, or even Hitler.....they were economic and the result of the Versailes Treaty - all this plus scapegoats enabled, as it always does the far right to increase or take power. It's happening in the estates and EU today.

Edited July 15, 2013 by wilcopops

[Jingthing]

I wish the Dean would have told the Israelis to bite the big one. One of the things I like about Thais is their resistance to Western ideals. And, yes, that includes Western ideals for education. From what I have seen, most Thais are happy, rid of all the angst that permeates the West. It takes much more skill, wit and courage to avoid a fight. And you think Thais are stupid?

I hadn't heard that the Israeli government has commented on the Hitler mural.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[sdanielmcev]

Where did I write "government?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/15/thai-university-hitler-superhero-mural_n_3597274.html?utm_hp_ref=world&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl16%7Csec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D343953

[Jingthing]

Where did I write "government?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/15/thai-university-hitler-superhero-mural_n_3597274.html?utm_hp_ref=world&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl16%7Csec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D343953

Fair enough. The complaint was from the USA actually, not Israel, specifically the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

Rabbi Cooper, an American, not an Israeli, mentioned in the article is quite active in outreach to the ASIAN region:

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4885451#.UeQl0KwjRbQ

Rabbi Cooper’s trailblazing work in Asia has helped counter negative stereotypes about Jews and open new venues in dialogue and intergroup relations in Japan, South Korea, The People’s Republic of China, India, and Indonesia. He was a leader of the Center’s mission to China that brought the first Jewish-sponsored exhibition to the world’s most populous nation. He also arranged national prime-time broadcasts of the Center’s documentary, Genocide, on Chinese and Russian TV to estimated audiences of ½ billion and 80 million, respectively. Rabbi Cooper brought the Center’s special Anne Frank and the Holocaust to tour Japan which has been viewed by two million Japanese in each of Japan’s 47 prefectures. He brought the Center’s Courage to Remember Holocaust Exhibit to the Gandhi Cultural Center in New Delhi. He recently traveled to Jakarta, Indonesia to meet with former president Wahid and other religious leaders in the world’s most populous Moslem nation.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[bbradsby]

As a Jew it is highly offensive to me and I would also think to many Russians who lost 20m people in WWII The really sad thing here is just how isolated and ignorant this facility must be to let it get to this stage. Ignorance comes to mind......the joke is on Thailand.

Yes it's basically ignorance but I think a new trend is growing of immature Thais KNOWING it ticks off foreigners so using Nazi images to have fun with that. But the bright side is that there really isn't an actual politically oriented Neo-Nazi movement in Thailand.

not so sure there isn't a Thai version brewing in the schools & statehouse.

fascism |ˈfaSHˌizəm|(also Fascism )nounan authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.• (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.

[ALFREDO]

"Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach."

-bbrdsby-

Sounds familiar regarding present Thailand!

[techboy]

What's the point of apologising to presumably the Thai public as they have no idea who or what he was and even if they did they wouldn't give a monkey's ?

So you are saying that If people were made to understand what Hitler was, they would not care. Frankly anyone who finds it necessary to so offhandedly judge the character of so many other people as being that terrible- and you are doing just that- Must be projecting his own vile nature on others. No. Most other people are not like you. Keep it all inside where it belongs.

[Jingthing]

By saying Thailand doesn't have a problem with an actual Neo-Nazi movement I was referring to this kind of hate group shown in the video actually directly inspired by admiration of Hitlerian ideology, not suggesting there aren't other kinds of political issues in Thailand:

Again, silly Thai teens wearing Hitler Ronald McDonald t-shirts or even actual Hitlerian Nazi swastikas generally aren't actually Neo-Nazis.

Similarly I doubt the mural painters or the graduates "heiling" in front of it are actually relating to the actual political ideology of Hitler (or even know what that is).

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[Kananga]

I wish the Dean would have told the Israelis to bite the big one. One of the things I like about Thais is their resistance to Western ideals. And, yes, that includes Western ideals for education. From what I have seen, most Thais are happy, rid of all the angst that permeates the West. It takes much more skill, wit and courage to avoid a fight. And you think Thais are stupid?

If thais have a resistance to western ideals then why are they depicting western superheroes on the mural instead of thai ones? Why is the student performing a fascist salute wearing western style graduation clothing? Why is the political system based on western democracy? Why do Thais wear western clothes? Why do rich Thais educate their children in the west? Why is driving a western car seen as a status symbol? Yah real resistant.

Thais aren't born stupid but their education system is pathetic in relation to the country's economic level. People aren't taught to think or question anything which leads to apathy and ignorance. I would the think the high murder rate here dispels your thought that most Thais are happy and try to avoid fighting. The only time I would say they try to avoid fighting is when it is one on one and they don't have a gun.

[Beetlejuice]

What I'm finding increasingly disturbing is the number of people who actually subscribe albeit negatively to Hitlers "credo" - they are happy to talk about race, IQ and concepts of hierarchy as if they have a basis in truth. They also debate which people he was "against" - this is pure drivel.

hitler's regime USED easily identifiable ethnic groups to build up a groundswell of opinion in the German population that was based purely on pseudo-science......in all probability he knew this was all crap, but it enabled him and his party firstly to get into power (democratically) and then in the name of what was "best" for Germany install himself and his party as the only viable rulers of the country.

He wasn't ANTI anything in reality - he just knew how to use these easily identifiable groups to his own advantage.

THis creation of scapegoats is common to virtually all dictatorships, and is so successful it is often adapted by more democratic governments. Demonising sections of society enables unscrupulous governments to get away with blue murder (literally) in the name of "national, security, unity, threats from within etc.0

I'm sure if you think about it you'l see examples iof this all over Europe and America today.

BUT

As I said at the beginning it seems a lot of the posters on this thread are perfect receptacles for this kind of perception of "other" within thioer own society.

All this goes to show that although you can't fool all the people all the time, you don't need to - just fool some of the people some of the time and that is enough to tip the balance in your favour.

What I'm finding increasingly disturbing is the number of times you keep repeating your posts.

[NongKhaiKid]

What's the point of apologising to presumably the Thai public as they have no idea who or what he was and even if they did they wouldn't give a monkey's ?

So you are saying that If people were made to understand what Hitler was, they would not care. Frankly anyone who finds it necessary to so offhandedly judge the character of so many other people as being that terrible- and you are doing just that- Must be projecting his own vile nature on others. No. Most other people are not like you. Keep it all inside where it belongs.

I was pointing out that Thais are not noted for interest in anything or anyone not directly affecting Thais or Thailand. Are you saying they do ?

[MrsExpat2B]

Hope all students involved in this are forced to sign up to some History classes at the faculty of Arts next door. It's likely to have been made up by first years so shouldn't have any problem squeezing in one or two classes.

As an ex Chula student I am embarrassed.

[Thaddeus]

I suggest that this Uni should organise some field trips to a museum in Kanchanaburi.

Perhaps you should go. Then you can see that what happened there was not related to Hitler. Doh!

I've been there several times, first time was around twelve years ago.

Nothing more to say.

[Tywais]

A post with all caps and profanity has been removed. Keep it civil.

[noitom]

It's easy to see that the dean is minimizing the incident. The artist was a 'freshman," The intention of the message was "good and bad heroes." This is a nonsensical reaction for a dean.

[Beetlejuice]

It's easy to see that the dean is minimizing the incident. The artist was a 'freshman," The intention of the message was "good and bad heroes." This is a nonsensical reaction for a dean.

I do agree that this is a rather pathetic response.

And if the said University is acclaimed to be one of Thailand`s top end education facilities, than we have wonder as to the quality of Thailand`s education system as a whole? And it becomes clearer why Thais are lacking in their knowledge of both Thai and world history, as it seems that ignorance is bliss in that department.

[123thaibourbon]

I really don't see what the problem is, why would the Thai's know about Hitler, he never invaded Thailand, the European theatre of war never came to Thailand, but the Pacific theatre of war did came to Thailand and the Japanese army with it.

Whilst Hitler is an evil figure for us in the western world, it's not same in the Asian world, it's why we like Thailand and live there, it's different to our home countries!

please get real. the Nazi war machine left the French & British unable to tend their many colonies. thus, in SE Asia, the Japanese easily ran the British out but allowed French Vichy's to puppet-rule. Many Allied prisoners in work/death camps eg: Kanchanaburi et al. the void Japan filled was to advance the Empire of the Sun.. Axis Germany, Italy & Japan were determined but failed. Italy & Germany were very young nations at that time. Hence, after WW2, the British & French tried to walk back into SE Asia & set up shop. most former colonies said 'no dice' and more hell broke loose such as that of India & Vietnam respectively. aka British Raj & French Indo-China..

Edited July 15, 2013 by 123thaibourbon

[tribalfusion001]

I really don't see what the problem is, why would the Thai's know about Hitler, he never invaded Thailand, the European theatre of war never came to Thailand, but the Pacific theatre of war did came to Thailand and the Japanese army with it.

Whilst Hitler is an evil figure for us in the western world, it's not same in the Asian world, it's why we like Thailand and live there, it's different to our home countries!

please get real. the Nazi war machine left the French & British unable to tend their many colonies. thus, in SE Asia, the Japanese easily ran the British out but allowed French Vichy's to puppet-rule. Many Allied prisoners in work/death camps eg: Kanchanaburi et al. the void Japan filled was to advance the Empire of the Sun.. Axis Germany, Italy & Japan were determined but failed. Italy & Germany were very young nations at that time. Hence, after WW2, the British & French tried to walk back into SE Asia & set up shop. most former colonies said 'no dice' and more hell broke loose such as that of India & Vietnam respectively. aka British Raj & French Indo-China..

I do know my world history, however evil these regimes were, it's in the past and lecturing Thai's about how evil Hitler was is none of our business really. My wife doesn't know about Hitler and the Nazi's, I doubt she cares either, although it might help with her Life in the UK test!

[laughingnomad]

Someone above mentioned "Hitler Chic." Apparently it has become a popular meme among the youth. Google it and you get some interesting articles. Here is one:

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2013/0713/Thailand-has-a-new-popular-sensation-Hitler

I for one would like to talk to the students who did the mural. Just perhaps they knew what they were doing.

I don't know who actually did the mural ( yet it is not very important ), and I already prepared some pictures and would discuss with the students their social sensitivity on the subject.

I am sure students ( even ajarns there ) won't like it, yet this is my position to bring the message to the youngsters.

Good. But I also hope you give the students a chance to explain where they were coming from by doing this mural this way.

[razer]

This is the result of ignorance. It demonstrates to the world how poor the overall education is in Thailand.

[runningfree73]

This is a stunning display of ignorance. If this happened at some unknown technical college in the provinces I wouldn't be so surprised but Chulalongkorn University is one of the leading institutes of higher learning in Thailand and has quite a high profile internationally.

[Shaksey]

I think the best way to explain to a Thai the offence to Farangs caused by this would be to say that it's as offensive to us as insulting the King would be to them. Surely that they would understand.

[wilcopops]

What I'm finding increasingly disturbing is the number of people who actually subscribe albeit negatively to Hitlers "credo" - they are happy to talk about race, IQ and concepts of hierarchy as if they have a basis in truth. They also debate which people he was "against" - this is pure drivel.

hitler's regime USED easily identifiable ethnic groups to build up a groundswell of opinion in the German population that was based purely on pseudo-science......in all probability he knew this was all crap, but it enabled him and his party firstly to get into power (democratically) and then in the name of what was "best" for Germany install himself and his party as the only viable rulers of the country.

He wasn't ANTI anything in reality - he just knew how to use these easily identifiable groups to his own advantage.

THis creation of scapegoats is common to virtually all dictatorships, and is so successful it is often adapted by more democratic governments. Demonising sections of society enables unscrupulous governments to get away with blue murder (literally) in the name of "national, security, unity, threats from within etc.0

I'm sure if you think about it you'l see examples iof this all over Europe and America today.

BUT

As I said at the beginning it seems a lot of the posters on this thread are perfect receptacles for this kind of perception of "other" within thioer own society.

All this goes to show that although you can't fool all the people all the time, you don't need to - just fool some of the people some of the time and that is enough to tip the balance in your favour.

What I'm finding increasingly disturbing is the number of times you keep repeating your posts.

Really? Why? It's you who just repeated it, not me.

[wilcopops]

It's easy to see that the dean is minimizing the incident. The artist was a 'freshman," The intention of the message was "good and bad heroes." This is a nonsensical reaction for a dean.

I do agree that this is a rather pathetic response.

And if the said University is acclaimed to be one of Thailand`s top end education facilities, than we have wonder as to the quality of Thailand`s education system as a whole? And it becomes clearer why Thais are lacking in their knowledge of both Thai and world history, as it seems that ignorance is bliss in that department.

I can't see how you can support this statement - it seems to be nothing but supposition. Could you explain the rationale behind it?

Edited July 16, 2013 by wilcopops

[Sayonarax]

Die chula die.

[BanTamo]

What's all this nonsense about "collage" in every other post?

Having attended. Chulalongkorn for a Master in Finance just prior to the Thais crashing the Asian financial system I knew the degree was worthless, though it did give me insight into Thai elite character. Insight I have often wished I didn't have.

But this new low has me considering mailing the damn fool thing back to the benighted <deleted>.

[BanTamo]

Of course there were a few other, more important reasons to spend time at Chulalongkorn ...

[bluecheesefan]

A dean of a collage in any country does not know who Hitler is or what he did or why this maybe a problem?

A dean of a collage in any country sees Hitler in a student mural and does nothing?

Collage students don't know what the problem is?

Students are doing a Nazi salute in front of all the people attending the graduation?

I try to make my friends understand Thailand but they all think I am exaggerating.

Maybe this mural should be at the airport so when the next group of Euro bankers come into town they will feel really welcome.

Has the IMF seen this yet? Good luck with that!

col·lage

/kəˈläZH/

Noun

1. A form of art in which various materials such as photographs and pieces of paper or fabric are arranged and stuck to a backing.
2. A composition made in this way.

col·lege

/ˈkälij/

Noun

1. An educational institution or establishment, in particular.
2. One providing higher education or specialized professional or vocational training.

Synonyms

school - academy - university

lol.