What do you expats invest in Thailand

[Naam]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

-why on earth should you invest onshore when you can buy offshore exactly all assets (e.g. Thai high dividend stocks)?

-and why would you have a risk of fluctuating exchange rates when you keep Baht offshore and use them to buy Baht denominated assets?

-offshore you pay the same 10% tax on dividends (it's a Thai witholding tax) and offshore you pay, as in Thailand zero percent tax on capital gains.

Makes about as much sense, as for me living in Hua Hin doing my weekly shopping at Tesco in Surin!

Anoyher poster mentioned in an earlier post here, that dividends and other rights are only for Thais.

Not correct, if buying NVDR's (just tick a box, when buying/selling) foreigners have the same rights as Thais!

hmm... does that mean an investor living in Surin has to move to Bangkok if he wants to buy shares of a company who's headquarter is in BKK? and you are obviously buying only shares of companies located in Hua Hin?

i bow to your financial wisdom and hang my head in shame

[Naam]

.... the average expat's interest is focussed on how to save either on ATM withdrawals and/or which Thai bank pays 0.1% more on fixed deposits. a thread i opened a few weeks ago on high yield / high risk bond investment died within a few days ....

If you are talking about retired or semi-retired expats, it's hardly surprising is it?

I personally am not in the slightest bit interested in anything as risky as the sort of bond investments you mentioned. Why should I be? I dont need to make money; I have more than enough to see me out, even if by the time I reach official retirement age they have stopped paying pensions to the likes of me.

No, I only need to not lose what I have now, and to try and get a return modestly above inflation. The way to do that is not to take big risks and to stick with (relatively) safe investments. So that's what I do. Bit of a no-brainer really.

Those who are looking for thrills will probably do otherwise, but not me.

Perfect example of why Naam is right.

gracias El Jefe! some people seem need these kind of explanations even though i thought my posting was self-explanatory

[Danbit]

You could contact KTZmico.com, but remember what you investments does not count in the 800,000/400,000 demand

SET was among the best last year.

[soi41]

hmm... does that mean an investor living in Surin has to move to Bangkok if he wants to buy shares of a company who's headquarter is in BKK? and you are obviously buying only shares of companies located in Hua Hin?

i bow to your financial wisdom and hang my head in shame

According to your logic (?), The investor living in BKK, should move to Surin (offshore) to buy shares in a company located in BKK??

Please enlighten stupid little me, about the advantages of buying Thai stocks offshore on exacly the same terms and conditions as you can buy them in the country, where we live and the companies are based.

And we are only talking Thai stocks.

[CIHUAHUA]

Do not invest in anything. A condo is not worth the price, pencil it out compared to rent. Even if you do own a condo you still can not stay more than a year at a time on a OA visa. Rules change and money folds. They can change their minds anytime. It looks like the Thai economy is over extended and there is no 100% fail-safe for any investments. Don.t listen to those that say there are guarantees with your money, there are none. You are here so you can be exploited for what you have while you try to get something for nothing. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[statman78]

Currently I do not live in Thailand but plan to move there when I retire. About 4 years ago I bought a condo in BKK and now have it leased out. I am getting about a 7.5% return on my investment if I assume over the long term that I collect 10 months worth of rent per year. Currently I have a tenant, a japanese businessman, who has been there for over 2 1/2 years and has never missed a rent payment. I work through a local agency that changes 1/2 month worth of rent per year (1 month worth of rent if they need to find a new tenant). I purchased the condo in an area where expats live (mainly Japanese)

[yoshiwara]

.... the average expat's interest is focussed on how to save either on ATM withdrawals and/or which Thai bank pays 0.1% more on fixed deposits. a thread i opened a few weeks ago on high yield / high risk bond investment died within a few days ....

If you are talking about retired or semi-retired expats, it's hardly surprising is it?

I personally am not in the slightest bit interested in anything as risky as the sort of bond investments you mentioned. Why should I be? I dont need to make money; I have more than enough to see me out, even if by the time I reach official retirement age they have stopped paying pensions to the likes of me.

No, I only need to not lose what I have now, and to try and get a return modestly above inflation. The way to do that is not to take big risks and to stick with (relatively) safe investments. So that's what I do. Bit of a no-brainer really.

Those who are looking for thrills will probably do otherwise, but not me.

besides that you have more than enough money what is your point?

A flawed one actually because in the current financial environment setting a target return for 'modestly above inflation' is not an easy task at all. And when someone says that they are making relatively safe investments without big risks I am always interested to know what that might be. I am not flying the banner for high-interest bonds. It is not my cup of tea, but the idea that there is a 'catch-all' safety-first strategy is rather arrogant. What may be appropriate for one may not be appropriate for another.

[Penefattore]

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

CPNRF is also trading at a 70% premium to its NAV ... not exactly cheap http://www.cpnrf.com/

[Penefattore]

Anoyher poster mentioned in an earlier post here, that dividends and other rights are only for Thais.

Not correct, if buying NVDR's (just tick a box, when buying/selling) foreigners have the same rights as Thais!

except voting rights

[falkan]

gold,condo,stocks, shares in thai to thai businesses - worked out pretty good year for me..

[KittenKong]

besides that you have more than enough money what is your point?

I would have thought that the point was pretty obvious: not everyone is interested in taking risks in order to get more money.

Just because you seem to think this is a necessary or desirable thing to do does not make it so for anyone else, and that is probably why few people bothered following your thread.

[KittenKong]

Perfect example of why Naam is right.

No, it's a perfect example of why you think he is right. In fact you are just as wrong as he is, and for the same reasons.

[dr_lucas]

Never invest more in Thailand that your not willing to walk away from!

....in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner...

[KittenKong]

A flawed one actually because in the current financial environment setting a target return for 'modestly above inflation' is not an easy task at all. And when someone says that they are making relatively safe investments without big risks I am always interested to know what that might be.

Nice to learn that my investment strategy (about which you admit you know nothing at all) is "flawed".

I have long time-deposits in countries with an effective bank deposit guarantee system that currently return about 2.5% over local inflation, tax-free. The real income from these alone covers my yearly outgoings by more than 2 times.

I have shares that pay dividends that exceed inflation by a somewhat higher amount and these have also done well in capital terms, in spite of the global problems of the last few years. These are very unlikely to show a capital loss. I do have stop-loss sell orders on them, just in case, and I keep an eye on them.

I also buy worthwhile stocks when the price falls unusually low, and I have made money consistently in about 90% of these purchases. I stop-loss the purchases anyway and so have not lost much on the ones that fell in value. All in all over the last 3 years I have made about 45% capital gain from these, plus dividends which in some special cases have been quite high.

But I steer clear of things like PIBS and other such things which have little or no intrinsic value. The recent situation in Europe and the UK with bank PIBS seems to justify this.

I have about 2 years' expenditure in Baht spread across enough Thai banks to stay within the projected deposit protection limits. I have no other investments in Thailand, and am unlikely to get any.

Edited July 17, 2013 by KittenKong

[moradave]

I do not recommend investing in a Pattaya beachside condo. When I first came here 8 years ago, the condo similar to the one I now live in rented for 17,000 baht a month. I am now paying 14,000 on a 12 month lease. Not exactly a big growth in income. It sold then for about 3.5 million, today asking price around 3.2 million with dozens of condos for sale. Not exactly a big capital gain.

[yoshiwara]

A flawed one actually because in the current financial environment setting a target return for 'modestly above inflation' is not an easy task at all. And when someone says that they are making relatively safe investments without big risks I am always interested to know what that might be.

Nice to learn that my investment strategy (about which you admit you know nothing at all) is "flawed".

I have long time-deposits in countries with an effective bank deposit guarantee system that currently return about 2.5% over local inflation, tax-free. The real income from these alone covers my yearly outgoings by more than 2 times.

I have shares that pay dividends that exceed inflation by a somewhat higher amount and these have also done well in capital terms, in spite of the global problems of the last few years. These are very unlikely to show a capital loss. I do have stop-loss sell orders on them, just in case, and I keep an eye on them.

I also buy worthwhile stocks when the price falls unusually low, and I have made money consistently in about 90% of these purchases. I stop-loss the purchases anyway and so have not lost much on the ones that fell in value. All in all over the last 3 years I have made about 45% capital gain from these, plus dividends which in some special cases have been quite high.

But I steer clear of things like PIBS and other such things which have little or no intrinsic value. The recent situation in Europe and the UK with bank PIBS seems to justify this.

I have about 2 years' expenditure in Baht spread across enough Thai banks to stay within the projected deposit protection limits. I have no other investments in Thailand, and am unlikely to get any.

Read what I said a little more carefully: 'A flawed one actually because in the current financial environment setting a target return for 'modestly above inflation' is not an easy task at all.'

I have a question though. Which countries return deposits over 2.5% above inflation which you think are safe?

[Naam]

hmm... does that mean an investor living in Surin has to move to Bangkok if he wants to buy shares of a company who's headquarter is in BKK? and you are obviously buying only shares of companies located in Hua Hin?

i bow to your financial wisdom and hang my head in shame

According to your logic (?), The investor living in BKK, should move to Surin (offshore) to buy shares in a company located in BKK??

Please enlighten stupid little me, about the advantages of buying Thai stocks offshore on exacly the same terms and conditions as you can buy them in the country, where we live and the companies are based.

And we are only talking Thai stocks.

i didn't mention anything about advantages although a huge big advantage does exist. besides the fact that i can buy Thai (or any) stocks offshore at identical conditions and that includes the tax situation the procedure is carried out offshore without the restrictions on Thai Baht.

should the domestic situation (stock market, currency, whatever) change you are stuck with a restricted currency in a country with limited investment possibilities and face problems to invest somewhere else were the grass is greener. an offshore investor can move money out of the SET and move into any other market faster than the average Thai takes to finish a small bowl of Som Tam.

markets are not one-way streets. people who judge a market based on its performance of the last 4-5 years lack the phantasy what could happen to their life savings.

let's take a look at the SET 1990>to date:

[HerbalEd]

Never invest more in Thailand that your not willing to walk away from!

You can say pretty much the same about any investment .... Never invest more than you're able to lose.

[Naam]

Never invest more in Thailand that your not willing to walk away from!

You can say pretty much the same about any investment .... Never invest more than you're able to lose.

correct! and that's why "never invest more in Thailand than..." is an utmost ignorant view.

[bkkfaranguy]

Never invest more in Thailand that your not willing to walk away from!

You can say pretty much the same about any investment .... Never invest more than you're able to lose.

correct! and that's why "never invest more in Thailand than..." is an utmost ignorant view.

Nothing ignorant about it at all, Thailand is a 3RD world country with no guarantees compared to developed coutries like Eurozone or USA where many of your investments are insured by the government. Does that mean I do not invest here no, just means I am much more cautious and if I get burned not going to drive myself crazy about it knowing the reality of living in a 3RD world country where you are considered at best a 3RD class citizen.

[elektrified]

U.S. based no-load mutual funds. I like keeping my money.

LOL. You feel safe with keeping your money in USD? LOL.

[Straight8]

Tax on Dividends? 10% or 15% ?? Can someone confirm.

[Chicken George]

For most expats as you intend to be live here on a income pension from their own country. I would suggest coming here renting and seeing how you actually like living here before investing. Msybe you have been for a holiday here and enjoyed yourself. Sometimes living here does not work out the same. Have seen many come here to live and treat it as a masdive holidsy. Drinking all day and spunking all their money. Just a thought but one to consider. If you do not have a wife yet or kids then just rent. Essy to up sticks snd move on. Invest in your own country. Rent your house out and keep assets there as I do. Remember you msy have to go bavk one dsy. Good luck

[ThailandInvestmentGuide]

<snip> Does that mean I do not invest here no, just means I am much more cautious <snip>

Well I'd suggest that "never invest in Thailand" (a statement that I disagree with when applied to everyone) is quite different to "use more caution when making Thai investments" (which I do agree with). In my experience most personal investment failures here can be traced back to the investor - not the investment, and not the country. It would seem that, for various reasons, many foreigners investing here seem to exercise less caution rather than more, and one aspect of this is that many simply couldn't be arZed to do the background research needed to provide a decent chance of success.

The other comment I'd make, and one which at least one poster has already mentioned, is that not all investors are the same. There are a large number of individual variables related to things like age and risk profile, country of residency, degree of investment experience, etc etc. This means that there is no one great/terrible investment for everyone, and it all also means that there is no one great/terrible country for everyone to invest in either.

Edited July 18, 2013 by ThailandInvestmentGuide

[Naam]

Never invest more in Thailand that your not willing to walk away from!

You can say pretty much the same about any investment .... Never invest more than you're able to lose.

correct! and that's why "never invest more in Thailand than..." is an utmost ignorant view.

Nothing ignorant about it at all, Thailand is a 3RD world country with no guarantees compared to developed coutries like Eurozone or USA where many of your investments are insured by the government. Does that mean I do not invest here no, just means I am much more cautious and if I get burned not going to drive myself crazy about it knowing the reality of living in a 3RD world country where you are considered at best a 3RD class citizen.

you are missing the point! being cautious with your hard earned life savings applies to all investments in any country and not exclusively to investments in Thailand.

your investments are insured by the government. keep on dreaming. does the government in a "developed" country reimburse shareholders or bondholders if the company or the country goes bankrupt?

your posting demonstrates ignorance²!

[Skytrain2hell]

That's another strange misconception that foriegners have. I move money in and out of Thailand 3-4 times a year, and haven't had a problem since my first year here. The rules are pretty simple, at least for US citizens. You can only transfer to a US bank that has your exact name on it. It must go from your exact name in the Thai bank to your exact name in a US bank. Done.

Sometimes they ask you to fill out a sheet of paper that says where the money came from, and it's nothing more than a formality to cover their asses in case you are laundering money. If a bank employee doesn't know the rules, I explain it to her, and she confirms it with her superior. Done.

there is money and there is money Honourable Sir Skytrain. how many times have you transferred a hundred or two-hundred-thousand Dollars, exchanged them into Baht, reexchanged those Baht into Dollars and transferred these Dollars by filling out a sheet of paper?

I've never transferred 200,000 US, but I typically transfer 40-60k US. It clears almost instantly now. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'd have little problem doing larger amounts as you suggested.

[Naam]

That's another strange misconception that foriegners have. I move money in and out of Thailand 3-4 times a year, and haven't had a problem since my first year here. The rules are pretty simple, at least for US citizens. You can only transfer to a US bank that has your exact name on it. It must go from your exact name in the Thai bank to your exact name in a US bank. Done.

Sometimes they ask you to fill out a sheet of paper that says where the money came from, and it's nothing more than a formality to cover their asses in case you are laundering money. If a bank employee doesn't know the rules, I explain it to her, and she confirms it with her superior. Done.

there is money and there is money Honourable Sir Skytrain. how many times have you transferred a hundred or two-hundred-thousand Dollars, exchanged them into Baht, reexchanged those Baht into Dollars and transferred these Dollars by filling out a sheet of paper?

I've never transferred 200,000 US, but I typically transfer 40-60k US. It clears almost instantly now. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'd have little problem doing larger amounts as you suggested.

$40-60k doesn't sound too bad. but a friend told me that for $28k he had to bend over backwards.

[Skytrain2hell]

That's another strange misconception that foriegners have. I move money in and out of Thailand 3-4 times a year, and haven't had a problem since my first year here. The rules are pretty simple, at least for US citizens. You can only transfer to a US bank that has your exact name on it. It must go from your exact name in the Thai bank to your exact name in a US bank. Done.

Sometimes they ask you to fill out a sheet of paper that says where the money came from, and it's nothing more than a formality to cover their asses in case you are laundering money. If a bank employee doesn't know the rules, I explain it to her, and she confirms it with her superior. Done.

there is money and there is money Honourable Sir Skytrain. how many times have you transferred a hundred or two-hundred-thousand Dollars, exchanged them into Baht, reexchanged those Baht into Dollars and transferred these Dollars by filling out a sheet of paper?

I've never transferred 200,000 US, but I typically transfer 40-60k US. It clears almost instantly now. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'd have little problem doing larger amounts as you suggested.

$40-60k doesn't sound too bad. but a friend told me that for $28k he had to bend over backwards.

I know some people that wouldn't mind bending over forwards for 28k, lol.

[Skytrain2hell]

That's another strange misconception that foriegners have. I move money in and out of Thailand 3-4 times a year, and haven't had a problem since my first year here. The rules are pretty simple, at least for US citizens. You can only transfer to a US bank that has your exact name on it. It must go from your exact name in the Thai bank to your exact name in a US bank. Done.

Sometimes they ask you to fill out a sheet of paper that says where the money came from, and it's nothing more than a formality to cover their asses in case you are laundering money. If a bank employee doesn't know the rules, I explain it to her, and she confirms it with her superior. Done.

there is money and there is money Honourable Sir Skytrain. how many times have you transferred a hundred or two-hundred-thousand Dollars, exchanged them into Baht, reexchanged those Baht into Dollars and transferred these Dollars by filling out a sheet of paper?

I've never transferred 200,000 US, but I typically transfer 40-60k US. It clears almost instantly now. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'd have little problem doing larger amounts as you suggested.

$40-60k doesn't sound too bad. but a friend told me that for $28k he had to bend over backwards.

The first time for large transfers can be difficult. They might want you to prove that the money is clean. After you get that first approval, however, it's smooth sailing. At least in my case it has been.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Skytrain2hell

[Skytrain2hell]

Green energy is a great sector to follow in Thailand. It's mimmicking that of the US during the solar and wind energy boom (and subsequent crash). It's currently in the early stages, and by studying what happened in the US, it should be easier to know when to get out. Follow a few stocks like: HYDRO, DEMCO and UAC.

This morning, just before 11 AM these three stocks are up:

DEMCO +5%

UAC +7%

HYDRO +3%

A day of gains some people would be happy with over an entire year. Obviously, everyday isn't like this, but there are many strong investments in the SET if you can get over the fear factor.