'Trayvon Martin could have been me' - Barack Obama

[kikoman]

As with Zimmerman it is irrelevant of his fighting skills he has been exposed to more combat situation's in that year than Trayvon could have been exposed to in his entire life.

A great example of combat skills I saw in Pattaya a fat, out of shape, drunk, Falang man calls this young, very thin and skinny Thai guy out to the middle of the street on Soi 6, his friends tried to hold him back and finally they just gave up. As he moved toward the That and was received with a series of Karate style kicks, knock out cold on the street, did not even get the chance to throw one punch

Yes there is a lot of difference in a fighter with some MMA training already has more fighting skills then most Street Fighters.

Cheers:

Edited July 21, 2013 by kikoman

[chuckd]

As with Zimmerman it is irrelevant of his fighting skills he has been exposed to more combat situation's in that year than Trayvon could have been exposed to in his entire life.

A great example of combat skills I saw in Pattaya a fat, out of shape, drunk, Falang man calls this young, very thin and skinny Thai guy out to the middle of the street on Soi 6, his friends tried to hold him back and finally they just gave up. As he moved toward the That and was received with a series of Karate style kicks, knock out cold on the street, did not even get the chance to throw one punch

Yes there is a lot of difference in a fighter with some MMA training already has more fighting skills then most Street Fighters.

Cheers:

In other words...you really don't know a lot about the matter of Zimmerman's or Martin's fighting talents.

You seem to know quite a bit about the bar fights on Soi 6 though.

Edited July 21, 2013 by chuckd

[kikoman]

I've watched Obama's remarks and read it (link below). I'd like to say that it's not bad at all. The headlines with "Trayvon Martin could have been me" does it a disservice. It's a 17 minute number and trying to sum it up in those 6 words is misleading.

I think both sides of this debate should listen & watch the whole thing. He makes a lot of good points and observations.

Maybe there could be a thread dedicated to his remarks where members can discuss the points he brought up? Oh, wait, never mind.

- http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/19/obama_trayvon_martin_could_have_been_me_35_years_ago.html

It is a great thought, the people of the US are all ready very polarized' most are not willing to consider that Trayvon had rights to.

But Thank for a thoughtful post.

Cheers:

[Publicus]

Many bad mouth and disrespect our President Barrack H. Obama because he is (Oh My God a Black President).

Not many. Some. However, most of us who disrespect him do it for different reasons. He has purposely divided the country for political gain and his policies overseas and domestically are hastening the decline of what was a great nation.

I could care less what color he is.

Well baring the unforeseen there are 1279 days until the JAN 2017 Presidential Inauguration when a new US President and a real American may take over like Mark Rubio (whose parents were born in Cuba) or Ted Cruz (whose father was born in Cuba or barring any birther challenges as Ted himself was born in Canada) or even George P. Bush (son of JEB whose Mother was born in Mexico)

Hillary Clinton is the odds-on favorite already.

[SteeleJoe]

Many bad mouth and disrespect our President Barrack H. Obama because he is (Oh My God a Black President).

Not many. Some. However, most of us who disrespect him do it for different reasons. He has purposely divided the country for political gain and his policies overseas and domestically are hastening the decline of what was a great nation.

I could care less what color he is.

Well baring the unforeseen there are 1279 days until the JAN 2017 Presidential Inauguration when a new US President and a real American may take over like Mark Rubio (whose parents were born in Cuba) or Ted Cruz (whose father was born in Cuba or barring any birther challenges as Ted himself was born in Canada) or even George P. Bush (son of JEB whose Mother was born in Mexico)

Hillary Clinton is the odds-on favorite already.

Here we go...

[Ulysses G.]

Those who repeatedly try to minimize the value of the intensive year of MMA combat training Zimmerman had are either lying or know nothing about self protection,

Nonsense. A year of going to one class, three times a week, will accomplish very little for a typical student who has not had martial arts training already. If someone is a blackbelt in another art and works very hard, that is a different story. Why would you try to argue with Zimmerman's intsructor who actually trained him and said his fighting skills were almost non-existent?

Edited July 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[kikoman]

Those who repeatedly try to minimize the value of the intensive year of MMA combat training Zimmerman had are either lying or know nothing about self protection, Real street fighting is completely different then trained combat fighting, you not only learn combat Techniques of kicking and striking, but you learn the weak points of the human body and how to disable an opponent with attacking certain parts of the body, you learn the specialized fighting skill, which many street fighters do not know.

An all female jury was advantages to the defense as female at less exposed to violence and most have never been involve in a fight and it would be easier to lead them in the direction the defense want them to go.

Also that is where Juror B37 enters the picture she has been referred to as the acquittal juror because she had all ready formed an opinion that Zimmerman should not have been arrested. In that position she would try to influence the (3) jurors that favor conviction,.

Cheers:

The testimony given by his MMA trainer was that Zimmerman was not very athletic and not a good student of fighting.

In other words, he couldn't defend himself very well...according to his testimony.

I am very surprised that the prosecution did not try to neutralize his testimony, they new he was going to testify and yet did not consider bringing in an other MMA instructor that would testify to the weak points of his story. In a year of intensive combat training you could have week combat skills but learn all the major weak points of the human body and different specialized Technics how to disable or neutralize an opponent.

That on leaving that training he would have more skills than most street fighters. In a month of such training he would have been exposed to more combat situations that a Street fight would be exposed to in all their life.

I am saying it is not posible to go tough a year of intensive combat training and not learn any thing.

Zimmerman was a bouncher in a bar at the aGE OF 21

[Ulysses G.]

I am very surprised that the prosecution did not try to neutralize his testimony, they new he was going to testify and yet did not consider bringing in an other MMA instructor that would testify to the weak points of his story.

The "other instuctor" would have no clue what kind of MMA student Zimmerman was. Testifying would have been rather pointless and silly.

[cup-O-coffee]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

I think I agree with this notion, and I also think that demonizing honesty is also a tragedy. Honesty may not be right or wrong, but demonizing it and forbidding it from discussion an all accounts, and instead allowing limited honesty is detrimental.

Honesty is the first step to the deepest understanding of issues understanding.

[chuckd]

Those who repeatedly try to minimize the value of the intensive year of MMA combat training Zimmerman had are either lying or know nothing about self protection, Real street fighting is completely different then trained combat fighting, you not only learn combat Techniques of kicking and striking, but you learn the weak points of the human body and how to disable an opponent with attacking certain parts of the body, you learn the specialized fighting skill, which many street fighters do not know.

An all female jury was advantages to the defense as female at less exposed to violence and most have never been involve in a fight and it would be easier to lead them in the direction the defense want them to go.

Also that is where Juror B37 enters the picture she has been referred to as the acquittal juror because she had all ready formed an opinion that Zimmerman should not have been arrested. In that position she would try to influence the (3) jurors that favor conviction,.

Cheers:

The testimony given by his MMA trainer was that Zimmerman was not very athletic and not a good student of fighting.

In other words, he couldn't defend himself very well...according to his testimony.

I am very surprised that the prosecution did not try to neutralize his testimony, they new he was going to testify and yet did not consider bringing in an other MMA instructor that would testify to the weak points of his story. In a year of intensive combat training you could have week combat skills but learn all the major weak points of the human body and different specialized Technics how to disable or neutralize an opponent.

That on leaving that training he would have more skills than most street fighters. In a month of such training he would have been exposed to more combat situations that a Street fight would be exposed to in all their life.

I am saying it is not posible to go tough a year of intensive combat training and not learn any thing.

Zimmerman was a bouncher in a bar at the aGE OF 21

It would seem you have more of a problem with the prosecution team than with Zimmerman.

Why not take this up with the District Attorney's office in Sanford and get the problems solved once and for all.

Oops, I forgot. Zimmerman was acquitted.

[JLCrab]

Since it seems there are persons on this and other topics with a plethora of information on this case, they might better spend their efforts in informing the US Department of Justice with these nuggets. USDOJ has set-up an email address for those who have 'tips' on the case:

//e-mail removed as per forum rules//

Since this is in Florida I'm sure a bunch of psychics and para-normals will be those most likely to respond.

Apologies: The email is contained in this Orlando Sentinel Article for those with a 'tip':

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-07-16/news/os-george-zimmerman-doj-investigation_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-justice-department

[chuckd]

Someone in an earlier post said Zimmerman would always be despised for the actions taken.

It would seem he has the same unfavorable rating as our current President. Both at 48%

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/20/george-zimmerman-and-barack-obama-share-same-disapproval-rating/

[cup-O-coffee]

I've given the thread a few moments thought now.

I'm hoping this thread might show some understanding and empathy for Trayvon and for his family, friends - and to include the larger picture of young black males in the United States whose legacy is 200 years of slavery and another hundred years of Jim Crow laws. Destroyed families from their outset.

However, I see my worst fears of this thread topic are already being realized. The other side is in fact the other side, i.e., it hasn't any feeling for a kid who got very nervous about some little white sh*t following him in silence with eyeballs fixed on him.

The other side is devoid of human feeling, sympathy, caring for the black kid, the deceased. Can't put themselves in the other fellow's shoes and haven't the slightest interest in trying to do so. To them Martin is bad, Zimmerman is good. White is right and if you're black get to the back.

The SOS is polluting this thread too.

In fact, I do feel badly about Trayvon's death. In and of itself, the loss of life of any human, from a death standpoint, is tragic.

Now that I have your attention, let's move beyond that and be honest about why these deaths occur. I suspect that if you, Publicus, cannot at some point in time demonstrate an understanding of all sides and spell it out in this thread so that we can have the assurance that you are seeking a solution and not keeping the kettle at a boiling point, then I fear that those out there who echo your sentiments will not be able to do the same.

I appreciate your honesty, regardless of how I disagree with it so much. You are a good litmus test for all of us who are trying to be objective about this. To be objective, one must be willing to listen to honesty, no matter how much it grinds in one's ears.

I get your points, I truly do, but when are you going to begin suggesting solutions which include all, rather than simply splitting hairs about chaotic kickback from the larger issues that generate these chaotic kickbacks?

[Jingthing]

Someone in an earlier post said Zimmerman would always be despised for the actions taken.

It would seem he has the same unfavorable rating as our current President. Both at 48%

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/20/george-zimmerman-and-barack-obama-share-same-disapproval-rating/

Irrelevant.

Zimmerman can't walk down a public street now.

Probably some right wing group will help him pay for plastic surgery.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think so. Look at his photos. His looks change all the time and there is nothing about him that stands out. Once the media move on to something else and he loses some weight, no one will recognize him. If worst comes to worst, he can take the money that he will make when he wins his lawsuits and move to Thailand and be a very handsome man.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[cup-O-coffee]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

It is done by political design. Most Americans don't hold such strong views against others, whether we happen to agree with them or not. It is done to curry constituencies by political leaders. Almost all political victories in America come from swinging marginal voters, so it is is very important, politically to foment division. To pit the old against the young, the gay against the straight, the black against the white, the poor against the rich. It is democracy by parsing groups up to get to 50.001% rather than unifying. There's a lot of money in it.

Well said.

I really appreciate what lannarebirth said. I have been trying to put this into words for some time now and this is near what I fel deep in my soul. Barrack asked us to search our souls. The problem with this is that he has made too many laws against people being able to express what is in their souls, and to call upon people to search their souls means to engage in honesty. Putting limitationon uttering honesty, I feel, really is quite a defeating thing to do if we are all supposed to come together and get out the poison before we can clean the wounds.

[Credo]

Could you cite a few of those laws? I didn't know congress was inclined to pass anything that Obama wanted.

Since there are 'so many' of them, maybe just 3 or 4 would do.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Credo

[cup-O-coffee]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

But don't you feel frustrated about anything regarding the things this man does and does not do? It is not criminal to express frustration, no matter how "off" they are. It is honesty in its most raw form. It suggests a disquiet in a person’s character about something. Why not let's get it out on the table so we can begin to sort it out. The laws forbid certain kinds of honest thoughts, and that is wrong. It is not going to keep people from forming their own sub cultures where they feel comfortable to express their thoughts, and eventually kill to protect them. Putting a lid on honesty to protect those who do not want to hear what others have to say, and to be able to discuss it will foment even more chaos.

I listened to his speech, and I also listened to another man, Kevin Jackson, reply to that speech. Neither one is right or wrong. The President is human and suffers from the same frailties we all suffer from. But the question is, do you trust him? He has placed himself in a position where his credibility to the average street kid and average person simply understands no longer, and moreover they mistrust him.

[SteeleJoe]

Barrack asked us to search our souls. The problem with this is that he has made too many laws against people being able to express what is in their souls, and to call upon people to search their souls means to engage in honesty. Putting limitationon uttering honesty, I feel, really is quite a defeating thing to do if we are all supposed to come together and get out the poison before we can clean the wounds.

Sincere and simple question: which laws? Which limitations?

[Credo]

I trust him. I trust him as much as I have trusted any president or politician -- probably a little bit more than most.

I am still waiting for a list of all those laws.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Credo

[cup-O-coffee]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

Your comment just goes to show that race is still a deciding factor in American politics. The jury looked at the facts and found Zimmerman not guilty. Now Obama comes on the stage and seems to justify a black opinion that they are discriminated against. If Obama were to act as the "president of ALL the people" and were to make some use of his law degree he should have said that a jury of Zimmerman's peers found him not guilty and that should be the end of it. Rather he seems to give some justification for a black attitude that they are the victims of discrimination. Blacks are in the situation they are in due in large part to their behavior and outlook.

Obama's behavior is shameful and he is a poor example of what Americans should expect in a president.

That's coming from a place which denies the reality that racism is still a MAJOR problem in the USA.

I am beginning to believe that people often find their destiny in the roads they seek to avoid it.

I am beginning to believe that race and segregation is an issue that needs more discussion, but from the grass roots level.

Why hasn't anyone recently suggested that the issue of race and racism has been determined by a very few people, and the majority has been ignored. When we listen to the very few, we hear of things that do not exost, yet they say are possible. When we look around at the majority, we such a stong and chaotic contrast, that I have to believe that even the most unintelligent person can see that race is a factor that determines out ability to cope and exist tiogether in harmony,,, or not.

This issue of race and racism is about as ludicrous as forcing a husband and wife to remain together, when it is apparent that in doing so they will eventually kill each other: ...and in forcing them to remain together, we forbid or ignore any discussion on the issues which make them incompatible, and instead side with either the husband or wife.

People want to keep race out of it when the issues of race, profiling, and segregation come up, but isn't it very interesting that when we attack issues from the opposite end, we eventually confront race, but only as it is used as a line of defense from being responsible and honest (honest) human beings. It is also, as lannarebirth suggested, an evil, sick and twisted meansd for evil, sick and twisted people to keep the pot boiling so that they can cater to their own personal evil, sick and twisted characters.

At the heart of all of these issues, you will absolutelu not find honesty, but what you will find is a sense of frustration that not one of these few people who speak about these issues never ever says anything that everyone can sit back and say, "YES! That's it!". Why? Because it would take honesty, and honesty does not get votes.

[cup-O-coffee]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

Your comment just goes to show that race is still a deciding factor in American politics. The jury looked at the facts and found Zimmerman not guilty. Now Obama comes on the stage and seems to justify a black opinion that they are discriminated against. If Obama were to act as the "president of ALL the people" and were to make some use of his law degree he should have said that a jury of Zimmerman's peers found him not guilty and that should be the end of it. Rather he seems to give some justification for a black attitude that they are the victims of discrimination. Blacks are in the situation they are in due in large part to their behavior and outlook.

Obama's behavior is shameful and he is a poor example of what Americans should expect in a president.

He certainly had an opportunity to say something for everyone. He certainly had an opportunity to put people in their places and jar other people's sense of right and wrong. He did not. He lost that opportunity. Very regrettable, but this is the way it is for people who need cue cards to utter sincerity.

[cup-O-coffee]

I can guarantee you if a black man had shot Trayvon neither the media nor obama would give a hoot.

He would have been convicted.

One one way or the other, this is possibly true, but is it productive to imagine things when we are stonding right in the face of so many truths which, if we ar honest, can lead to a better understanding and provide a way out for people to be honest and forgiving and then mov forward to a solution, or solutions?

[cup-O-coffee]

I've given the thread a few moments thought now.

I'm hoping this thread might show some understanding and empathy for Trayvon and for his family, friends - and to include the larger picture of young black males in the United States whose legacy is 200 years of slavery and another hundred years of Jim Crow laws. Destroyed families from their outset.

However, I see my worst fears of this thread topic are already being realized. The other side is in fact the other side, i.e., it hasn't any feeling for a kid who got very nervous about some little white sh*t following him in silence with eyeballs fixed on him.

The other side is devoid of human feeling, sympathy, caring for the black kid, the deceased. Can't put themselves in the other fellow's shoes and haven't the slightest interest in trying to do so. To them Martin is bad, Zimmerman is good. White is right and if you're black get to the back.

The SOS is polluting this thread too.

Empathy for a hood that attacked a man that just happened to be carrying a weapon to defend himself? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Thanks for that.

I'll stop now and I can tell this thread will digress quickly and I want to stay out of the ban zone. One cannot debate with a person that has a 180 degree diametrically opposite view of reality without becoming incensed with the stupidity of the premise for the argument. Much like wrestling with pigs. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.

And it begs the question, why are we all being lead by so few? Why aren't we realizing that we are the puppets who are allowing ourselves to have our arms jerked when the strings are pulled?

How is it possible that we allow ourselves to get sucked in, and buy into this entire group think which is more corrosive and farther from any truth or honesty that defines us as human beings?

Human beings are supposed to be truthful and honest. That is what makes us who we are. When we make laws that forbid truth and honesty, then we begin to become puppets. Those who do not wish to become puppets seek alternative routes and form their own sub cultures which are not productive for all, and rather create wedges that divide our humanity and make us less than what we could be.

[kikoman]

He has my complete trust, I also would like to see all the laws he passed to keep you guy from searching your souls, I think most you are looking at the bottom of your shoes,

Many of you-all post , just to post I does not have to thought provoking, just trying to get some kind of reaction,

If that what it takes for you to float your boat by all means do it,

Obama is my President I have the utmost respect for him, as in his face I see the beginning of change in this land.

big changes are coming, As much as I respect him I can not do what he ask.

For I will never sit down and negotiate with racist, Trayvon was murdered and I will not rest until he gets justice.

Most of you-all will go on and troll other threads, I will keep working for.

Justice for Trayvon!

Cheers:

Edited July 21, 2013 by kikoman

[Ulysses G.]

I trust him. I trust him as much as I have trusted any president or politician -- probably a little bit more than most.

I voted for Obama the first time, but he quickly began to annoy me. First, was the time that he criticized a police officer for arresting a black man that was breaking into a house that turned out to be his own home. He ended up apologizing for that. Then he interjected himself into the debate over the 9/11 mosque and so on and so forth, right up until he said that Trayvon would look like his son without having all the facts of the case. I resent him as much for his positions on all the things that he has interfered in, as his job killing policies.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[kikoman]

I always vote, I voted for Obama twice, I only vote Democratic as Repugs have done nothing but start wars, Democrats were the movers of the Civil Rights Bill, Equal Rights Amendment and all the others.

They passed the Social Security retirement.

And they will be behind- Justice for Trayvon,

Cheers:

[SteeleJoe]

I always vote, I voted for Obama twice, I only vote Democratic as Repugs have done nothing but start wars, Democrats were the movers of the Civil Rights Bill, Equal Rights Amendment and all the others.

They passed the Social Security retirement.

And they will be behind- Justice for Trayvon,

Cheers:

I have only voted for Democrat presidents as well and while I have no great esteem for the party, they tend to be closer to my own political positions than their opposition.

But you need to brush up on your history regarding Civil Rights. Look up the "Southern Bloc" to start with...

[Ulysses G.]

But you need to brush up on your history regarding Civil Rights. Look up the "Southern Bloc" to start with...

This is a good start and Obama is featured in it:

http://www.amazon.com/Mugged-Racial-Demagoguery-Seventies-Obama/dp/1595230998

[F430murci]

The frustrating part to me . . .

Not sure why I bother, but the true racists are those that believe the message to our children here is to not trust non blacks as opposed to instructing our kids not to commit violent acts toward other humans regardless of their race.

The racists are those that bash the legal system as being racially biased, bash jurors they don't know, bash the prosecution for not making big deal out of gun control laws, accuse the Florida system of some how being impacted by an old insignificant white trial level judge from a far away state, and on and on simply because something did not turn out the way they had planned or hoped based on PERSONAL reasons.

The racist are those that believe when things don't go their way it is because of white Anerica.

The racists are those that speak out in a case like this, but care little when a non black person is targeted by a black person because of their race.

The racists are those that refuse to address the true problem, black on black crime and the disproportionately high number of crimes committed by non whites and instead complain that the system is geared to lock up blacks.

The racists are those that believe a non black should be targeted for a hate crime or revenge motives because something did not go their way.

The racists are those that believe violence is ever okay and acceptable when directed toward a non black under any circumstances including a jury's decision to acquit.

The racists are those that focus on nothing but racial divide and racial animosity when something does not go as planned or turn out the way they had hoped.