Could you have settled in Thailand without the help from a woman?

[up2you2]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

So you don't read or write Thai then?

And your speaking level, beginner, intermediate, advanced, fluent?

20 years is a long time to not learn your wife's language.

Agreed. People love to get on that soapbox and rail about how much they love Thailand and respect Thais, but their actions don't back up their beliefs.

Anyone who truly regards Thailand and wishes to understand her, would have made a supreme effort to learn the language through and through. Hard to establish credibility after living here 20 years and not knowing the language. How much can a person respect Thais and Thailand with this being the case? Really, there's no excuse.

What if a Thai lived in the west and still couldn't read and write English, much less speak it properly -- how would she be viewed? Why should any westerner be exempt from this same reasoning?

Western point of view ! Thais do not care that much if a foreigner after how many years living there, does not speak thai.

A western point of view of the Thais point of view!

I've heard many Thais aver very much to the contrary of what you claim.

I tend to avoid the topic as people get defensive and think one is being an elitist language snob or it turns into some sort of absurd pissing match but the fact is that my experience here was MASSIVELY changed by the sheer luck (it certainly wasn't foresight) of me deciding to start learning Thai within 2 days of arriving and working hard at it ever day. And the ways I which my experience changed goes far, far beyond mere practicalities or even how it helped me understand Thais and Thailand, but also to the way I was perceived by Thais. This latter fact has been confirmed me for me by Thais hundreds of times (at least) over the decades, both implicitly and many times quite explicitly.

As much as I hate getting off from my own OP I was interested to read your comments.

What works for you all well and good, but from my own experience I would have been held at a severe disadvantage in trying to communicate in Thai.

Without trying to appear or sounding boastful, there is really nothing that I have not been able to achieve, by deliberately not speaking the Thai language.

There is no way I could have got my friends stolen ATM funds, 280,000 Baht refunded by a Thai Bank speaking Thai.

Another example was when I just arrived to live here in Thailand, on the purchase of a new Sony Trinitron TV, back then it was impossible to get discounts.

Finally at the end of this negotiation the owner said to my girl friend, "I have never given such a discount before, I can't understand why he can't speak Thai".

To which she replied, "Be grateful that he can't, because if he could he wouldn't pay anything at all".

What I would like to hear more about, and I'm being genuine here, is what you have understood about Thais and Thailand through speaking Thai.

In this respect I do feel at a disadvantage, and for those of us who can't, I'm sure we would all be interested to know and learn from you for what is for most of us, a complete enigma.

[ABCer]

Yes I could have. As a matter of fact I actually did. For me one thing has nothing to do with the other. Meaning that if we had split, I wouldn't be leaving on that account. And visa-versa, - if I decided to leave she would have to make a choice between coming with me or staying behind. May be not fair, but that's how the cookie crumbles. At present such a possibility is very unlikely.

Edited July 25, 2013 by ABCer

[Scully]

Women.

More trouble than they are worth. (But only when you are first acclimating to Thailand. After that I love to look at women. Be with them. Be friends with them. Talk to them. Etc., etc., etc. I tend to not like male friends much. Very boring people, men.)

Actually, it is very important, and much better for one in the long run, to first get setup in Thailand

Begin learning the language

Know how to obtain your needs without depending on anyone, female or male, local or not loco.

And then when you are feeling comfortable and when you have the time,

Then gradually take it slow and begin getting to know some nice girls, women, whatever,

But never become too dependent

And try to give more than you receive. (I do NOT mean financially, I just mean in a relationship, if each tries to give more than they receive, then they will be happier with their partner.)

These are very wise words and wise advice I here impart unto you.

Take it or risk unhappiness.

I know of which I speak, having tried things many ways, in various countries, when I was fresh off the boat.

In amongst all these little petty arguments is a post that could actually help people settle down in Thailand. There are too many men who go all in with their first long haired translator and live to regret it.

Many Thai girls are on the hunt for a cash cow so will take any old foreigner that shows an interest, these men then become reliant on these women. There would be far less horror stories if people would take the time and take your advice.

Just to add, many men don't admit to themselves that they are with the wrong woman until its too late. It's a lot easier to leave a woman when you don't need her to look after you. Sadly I know men that have never posted a letter or paid the car tax on their own, must be hard to leave after being mothered for so long.

[rayongchelsea]

I haven't read all the posts..

My main point that well travelled people have certain characteristics that enable them to adapt better..by the very fact that they just got off theirs butts and went looking for that experience in itself would educate you into being self reliant...and not being dependent.

Lighten up " when I said first blow job"", whether young or old, lonely or not...the sex appeal can be alluring..tomslife is being to literal...and very defensive..it was a joke..i could have said first smile..which can be very intoxicating..don't go looking for stuff that ain't meant..

As for the quality question...

In the first decade I was here if any expat had money , I use to wonder why they settled here..it just wasn't that sort of place..regardless of the definition of quality..it was sure much friendlier..

I was shocked when I saw my first fight between foreigners in early 2002..these aren't quality people in any definition..

The whole perception of a farang has also changed..the money element is there..it may always have been but for many it's business...

The problem for those who come later be it one year later, a decade later, they always think they know more and have sussed it out better than those before..dependence on a women will only enhance that feeling..

To me it's just total bullshit that you come away from home to rely or need someone else..basically you should stay at home.

Does having a gf help you of course it does..but really..if shit hits the fan..you have to learn to stand up for yourself..

Thailand is not an easy place to live..all the more reason to try it by yourself first..

Take care..

[naboo]

My first week here, I was ready to go home. I was looking for a room to rent for a month in Nonthaburi, Bangkok and was struggling to get anywhere. I went into a restaurant, no English on the menu, I pointed at things randomly, had some interesting meals. But it wasn't working.

I learnt a very valuable lesson, in Thailand, if you want to survive outside the tourist areas, you need to learn the language. Reading, writing, speaking and listening. I'd had about 20hrs of Thai lessons at this point and I used them. Every day, for a month, each lesson was put into practice. After a month, I moved out into a small town up north, stayed for 2 months. My 20 lessons of Thai went far, I built on them, picked up some other dialects along the way unknowingly. Made good friends, good Thai friends I've stayed in contact with since.

If I had not have been willing to learn the language, I would have gone home, or perhaps found a woman and relied on her for the duration of the relationship. Like I relied on my mummy when I was 4. I was never going to do that, didn't cross my mind at the time and had it done I'd have told myself I was a better man than that.

I'm now married with a daughter, spend most of my time away from foreigners, with Thai family and friends. This isn't because I'd rather hang out with Thais than foreigners (and vice versa wouldn't be the case either, people are people), but its where I've ended up. I could never have ended up where I am without learning the language. I'd never have been able to be as involved in my wife's family as I am without learning the language.

I'd say that if I hadn't learnt the language, I'd have gone home long ago. But I've never relied on my wife (or ex girlfriend) to help me out when I needed to get something done.

If you're going to live in Phuket, Pattaya, Samui etc you can get by on your own just fine. Anywhere else and you'll need a translator or to study and practice.

[SteeleJoe]

@ SteeleJoe,

In the whole 19 years that i am, 1 way or another, connected to Thailand, i have never been told by ANY thai person that i should learn the thai language. The 1st girl i met spoke english quite well so did not need to learn thai, as tourist only. The 2nd 1 spoke hardly any english so i needed to learn some thai in order to communicate. In the time till know i can speak thai on a basic level without ever taking lessons. Learning a language and speaking it, in country of residence, has only benefits. Personally i speak thai with a foreign mind, thats where i come from. Thais speak english based on a thai mind. Thats where they come from. It all depends ofcourse as well in what circles one moves. In the circles i have moved no 1 ever pushed or said to me to learn Thai. But thats my experience !

You've misunderstood me perhaps. I never said Thais told me to learn Thai; though I have, in the sat 3 decades, occasionally heard a Thai say it directly (in a gentle way) to a foreigner, generally it's not something most would say to someone ( but they WILL say it ABOUT someone - to me).

What I said was, that it is not the case - as you claimed - that Thais don't care if a foreigner speaks Thai or not. Some prefer that you don't (and those people I want nothing to do with), few would hold it against you if you don't (but some do, to a degree), but even fewer - perhaps even none - would not perceive you differently if you could.

But just because one speaks Thai doesn't mean you are automatically liked ( just an inability to do so doesn't mean you won't be): as I always used to tell my friends back in the day who'd grumble that I had an advantage pulling girls: saying things people don't like doesn't come across any better in their own language...whatever language an ass is an ass and a nice guy is a nice guy. Language is huge but it matters more that you have some communication skills, some cultural sensitivity and some interpersonal skills - no?

[SteeleJoe]

Easy answer for me. I would never have made Thailand my home if not for the help of the wife or her family and many other Thai friends that I have befriended over the years. This doesn't mean that If I wanted to make Thailand my home that I could not have adapted and made a go at living here myself. I just never had the chance. I appreciate every Thai person that has tripped over themselves to help me get along here making life much eaiser. I don't see it as an negative. I find that when people say that they don't/didn't need help from GF, wife. partner whatever to live and adjust here in Thailand is in IMHO in denial.

I thought it was a great post - right up to the last sentence; not only was it incredibly presumptuous, it is odd given that you say you if you wanted to make Thailand your home you could have adapted and made a go at living here myself - but no one else could?

[aTomsLife]

I haven't read all the posts..

My main point that well travelled people have certain characteristics that enable them to adapt better..by the very fact that they just got off theirs butts and went looking for that experience in itself would educate you into being self reliant...and not being dependent.

Lighten up " when I said first blow job"", whether young or old, lonely or not...the sex appeal can be alluring..tomslife is being to literal...and very defensive..it was a joke..i could have said first smile..which can be very intoxicating..don't go looking for stuff that ain't meant..

As for the quality question...

In the first decade I was here if any expat had money , I use to wonder why they settled here..it just wasn't that sort of place..regardless of the definition of quality..it was sure much friendlier..

I was shocked when I saw my first fight between foreigners in early 2002..these aren't quality people in any definition..

The whole perception of a farang has also changed..the money element is there..it may always have been but for many it's business...

The problem for those who come later be it one year later, a decade later, they always think they know more and have sussed it out better than those before..dependence on a women will only enhance that feeling..

To me it's just total bullshit that you come away from home to rely or need someone else..basically you should stay at home.

Does having a gf help you of course it does..but really..if shit hits the fan..you have to learn to stand up for yourself..

Thailand is not an easy place to live..all the more reason to try it by yourself first..

Take care..

Thanks for coming back to clarify -- you were missed

I wasn't offended by anything you said, nor do I have anything to be defensive about. My motives for coming and staying here had everything to do with adventure, so I'd say I fit in more with your perception of expats of old. I don't think anyone who knows me would ever have reason to regard me as a sexpat. I was merely pointing out that the expat experiences of the past varied according to how Thais perceived westerners back then.

My initial reply was meant as matter of factly as this one is. Though some might see what followed it as a petty argument, for me it was just a healthy chat. I'm always happy to engage whenever someone of intelligence is interested enough to respond to one of my posts.

Take care as well.

[benalibina]

@ SteeleJoe,

In the whole 19 years that i am, 1 way or another, connected to Thailand, i have never been told by ANY thai person that i should learn the thai language. The 1st girl i met spoke english quite well so did not need to learn thai, as tourist only. The 2nd 1 spoke hardly any english so i needed to learn some thai in order to communicate. In the time till know i can speak thai on a basic level without ever taking lessons. Learning a language and speaking it, in country of residence, has only benefits. Personally i speak thai with a foreign mind, thats where i come from. Thais speak english based on a thai mind. Thats where they come from. It all depends ofcourse as well in what circles one moves. In the circles i have moved no 1 ever pushed or said to me to learn Thai. But thats my experience !

You've misunderstood me perhaps. I never said Thais told me to learn Thai; though I have, in the sat 3 decades, occasionally heard a Thai say it directly (in a gentle way) to a foreigner, generally it's not something most would say to someone ( but they WILL say it ABOUT someone - to me).

What I said was, that it is not the case - as you claimed - that Thais don't care if a foreigner speaks Thai or not. Some prefer that you don't (and those people I want nothing to do with), few would hold it against you if you don't (but some do, to a degree), but even fewer - perhaps even none - would not perceive you differently if you could.

But just because one speaks Thai doesn't mean you are automatically liked ( just an inability to do so doesn't mean you won't be): as I always used to tell my friends back in the day who'd grumble that I had an advantage pulling girls: saying things people don't like doesn't come across any better in their own language...whatever language an ass is an ass and a nice guy is a nice guy. Language is huge but it matters more that you have some communication skills, some cultural sensitivity and some interpersonal skills - no?

I agree with you on the communicationskills. For me being able to speak some thai and the ability to ask what they reply to me, if i do not understand them, has only had benefits. I have been perceived though as an ass and a nice guy ! My point was that in my life there no 1 has ever told me to really learn the language. Again that was the environment i lived in.

[SteeleJoe]

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

19....so I assume no education, no ambitions fulfilled, no money (probably still no money as farangs cannot work in Thailand, not for real money anyway). I moved here in the prime of my life, a few million in the bank, have learned the language and have had no long term romantic involvements. I did it my way and I think right way:)

You're awesome. You can't imagine how much I was just like you!

By the way...

1) I haven't been here continuously since 19.

2) Some Farangs make lots of money here.

3) Not everyone has the same priorities in life.

4) You post says so very much about you.

[SteeleJoe]

I haven't read all the posts..

My main point that well travelled people have certain characteristics that enable them to adapt better..by the very fact that they just got off theirs butts and went looking for that experience in itself would educate you into being self reliant...and not being dependent.

Lighten up " when I said first blow job"", whether young or old, lonely or not...the sex appeal can be alluring..tomslife is being to literal...and very defensive..it was a joke..i could have said first smile..which can be very intoxicating..don't go looking for stuff that ain't meant..

As for the quality question...

In the first decade I was here if any expat had money , I use to wonder why they settled here..it just wasn't that sort of place..regardless of the definition of quality..it was sure much friendlier..

I was shocked when I saw my first fight between foreigners in early 2002..these aren't quality people in any definition..

The whole perception of a farang has also changed..the money element is there..it may always have been but for many it's business...

The problem for those who come later be it one year later, a decade later, they always think they know more and have sussed it out better than those before..dependence on a women will only enhance that feeling..

To me it's just total bullshit that you come away from home to rely or need someone else..basically you should stay at home.

Does having a gf help you of course it does..but really..if shit hits the fan..you have to learn to stand up for yourself..

Thailand is not an easy place to live..all the more reason to try it by yourself first..

Take care..

Thanks for coming back to clarify -- you were missed

I wasn't offended by anything you said, nor do I have anything to be defensive about. My motives for coming and staying here had everything to do with adventure, so I'd say I fit in more with your perception of expats of old. I don't think anyone who knows me would ever have reason to regard me as a sexpat. I was merely pointing out that the expat experiences of the past varied according to how Thais perceived westerners back then.

My initial reply was meant as matter of factly as this one is. Though some might see what followed it as a petty argument, for me it was just a healthy chat. I'm always happy to engage whenever someone of intelligence is interested enough to respond to one of my posts.

Take care as well.

A "healthy chat" is you telling other people what they think? Implicitly accusing them of dishonesty when they present their own opinion?

Once again, we have a difference of perspective.

[SteeleJoe]

I just went back and read some posts again as I was baffled at how, as it turns out, I understood Rayongchelsea correctly but was criticized for what I said and yet you were civil with him...

And I saw a post I may have misunderstood:

In rayongchelsea's post, to me quality is clearly inferred -- " were self sufficient, well traveled" (as opposed to not being those things now). You responded by saying "the above is largely true". If I was mistaken, my apologies.

I should have acknowledged that apology. In the context of the exchange, I took it as sarcasm. So I would say the same: If I was mistaken, my apologies. (Everything else I stand by: I meant exactly what I said and no more).

[SteeleJoe]

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

19....so I assume no education, no ambitions fulfilled, no money (probably still no money as farangs cannot work in Thailand, not for real money anyway). I moved here in the prime of my life, a few million in the bank, have learned the language and have had no long term romantic involvements. I did it my way and I think right way:)

You're awesome. You can't imagine how much I was just like you!

By the way...

1) I haven't been here continuously since 19.

2) Some Farangs make lots of money here.

3) Not everyone has the same priorities in life.

4) You post says so very much about you.

Crap. Just noticed mistakes in my post and too late to edit. Meant to say:

You're awesome. You can't imagine how much I WISH I was just like you!

By the way...

1) I haven't been here continuously since 19.

2) Some Farangs make lots of money here.

3) Not everyone has the same priorities OR AMBITIONS in life.

4) YouR post says so very much about you.

[catweazle]

Don't really know what to make of this question... In some way it is a downright stupid question to ask, since in life you always will need the help of other people, men AND women, and this regardless of where you might go and regardless of what your plans for life are. In another way it is a good question, especially as it focuses on Thailand. In discussions with fellow expats and wannabe expats I always come to the conclusion that Thailand is where it is today mainly because of the Thai women. I have been living and working with Thai employees in Thailand for 22 years now, experienced a lot of hardship and had to make a lot of compromises, throw old western thinking structures in the bin, etc.

What I have seen so far boils down to the fact that Thai women are the driving force here in Thailand - percentage-wise they have more intellect, work harder, are cleverer, more creative and versatile, and they adapt easier to unforeseen changes than their male counterparts. In regards to the topic question it would be downright wrong to simply focus on the sexual part, the prostitution and how easy it is to not be alone here in Thailand if you feel lonely. Another point is that most women in Thailand embrace their female role, whereas in the western world most women nowadays want to be hardcore businesswomen with no time for family, kids, or romance...

I have to admit that initially a woman was the reason for me to move to Thailand back then in '91, but once the first euphoria faded out, I realised that I want to spend the rest of my life here because I learned to love the land, the food, the people, the laissez faire attitude and the relative freedom one enjoys here on a daily basis. Of course, there are some black dots, like corruption, lack of safety issues, etc. but the good outweighs the bad by far. I would never, never, trade my life here for a life in Europe, and to answer your question, I am not arrogant and ignorant enough (unlike some other forum members here) to say that I could be where I am today without the help of my several former Thai girlfriends and (in the more mature stage of my stay here) my Thai wife. It took me about 12 years to find the right one though.

Ignore the comments in this thread where so called "experts" warn you of all the Thai women who are only out to rip you off and are in just for the money. Of course, we have a lot of rotten apples here and the girlie bar scene is probably the worst fishing ground to find a reliable life partner, but - man, just enjoy life and embrace and cherish all the good things that are waiting for you here. Follow your heart and your intuition, and welcome every setback as a lesson learned, stand up again and keep walking! Keep in mind that you will only make it here in Thailand when you have been all the way down, sitting in the deepest $3ite you can imagine, without a single Baht left in your account, just wondering "what just happened". Only the ones who manage to stand up again and again after each failure will make it here in Thailand. You will then find out that there are Thai woman out there willing to help you back onto your feet, knowing that you have absolutely nothing to give and they have nothing to gain but your love and friendship. I have seen it all - and everyone who calls me a dreamer after reading all this has not been where I have been, sitting in the grim reaper's lap and coming back to tell the story.

Last but not least - when you really want to make it here in Thailand, stay away from your fellow country men and "best (western) friends" since they most likely are the ones who will rip you off and fail you when you need them most.

All the best to you for your future ventures in Thailand.

[aTomsLife]

I just went back and read some posts again as I was baffled at how, as it turns out, I understood Rayongchelsea correctly but was criticized for what I said and yet you were civil with him...

And I saw a post I may have misunderstood:

In rayongchelsea's post, to me quality is clearly inferred -- " were self sufficient, well traveled" (as opposed to not being those things now). You responded by saying "the above is largely true". If I was mistaken, my apologies.

I should have acknowledged that apology. In the context of the exchange, I took it as sarcasm. So I would say the same: If I was mistaken, my apologies. (Everything else I stand by: I meant exactly what I said and no more).

Indeed, I was sincere. I never intended to be anything but civil with you. In #39 I even pointed out that I apologized to you in #23, but you engaged me still and round and round we went.

Maybe I wasn't clear in our early exchanges, but I wasn't trying to be overtly judgemental: I was just attempting to explain why I arrived at my initial conclusion. It wasn't until you told me that I was being subjective that, in #51, I started asserting to you what you were actually saying -- at least from my perspective at the time.

I was civil with RC because he took the time to clarify his post without being vindictive. I prefer civility when possible. And I'm happy to accept your apology, and once again offer my own.

Edited July 25, 2013 by aTomsLife

[vincent2000]

I believe that the problems we may face in Thailand are just cultural differences which have great impact on their society .

Thailand is a "Buddhist" country ... Their buddhism is now greatly denatured to suit their lifestyle and "needs" but it's still the root of society.

Buddhism is NOT christianity. Buddha teach that life is suffering , he explain the origin of suffering (attachement) and he explain the path to the cessation of suffering.

Christianity teach us to love your neighbor as yourself and to love Jesus even more .

What are the MAIN impact :

-Buddhism: Strong social hierarchy (reincarnation makes you man or girl , poor or rich because you are "better" than others)

-Christianity: Social justice and equality.

Of course , this is not always the case but it is the tendency .

People are comming in Thailand for fun , womans or the climate .
I believe that the climatic reason is the worst (if not just holidays) , because there are other countries where you can buy land on your own name.

And no .... I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a woman , and now that she is gone , I'm leaving soon .

[SteeleJoe]

Indeed, I was sincere. I never intended to be anything but civil with you. In #39 I even pointed out that I apologized to you in #23, but you engaged me still and round and round we went.

Maybe I wasn't clear in our early exchanges, but I wasn't trying to be overtly judgemental: I was just attempting to explain why I arrived at my initial conclusion. It wasn't until you told me that I was being subjective that, in #51, I started asserting to you what you were actually saying -- at least from my perspective at the time.

I was civil with RC because he took the time to clarify his post without being vindictive. I prefer civility when possible. And I'm happy to accept your apology, and once again offer my own.

For the record:

* I engaged you still in that I gave reasons to support what I said and dispute your mischaracterization of my position (and, it turns out, rayongchelsea's), because I objected to your assertion that I "just want to agree with someone's ideas without knowing what they mean" and your subsequent implicit accusation that I was not being honest.

* I clarified repeatedly without being vindictive and remained civil (if not especially charming).

* I too prefer civility and am glad we can manage it now.

[mrtoad]

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

19....so I assume no education, no ambitions fulfilled, no money (probably still no money as farangs cannot work in Thailand, not for real money anyway). I moved here in the prime of my life, a few million in the bank, have learned the language and have had no long term romantic involvements. I did it my way and I think right way:)

There have been plenty of people that have moved here and been successful here as opposed to in their own country. Some, with no education, little money etc, under 20 and would probably make your boast look quite idiotic. Your way, was the right way......for you.

[SteeleJoe]

Don't really know what to make of this question... In some way it is a downright stupid question to ask, since in life you always will need the help of other people, men AND women, and this regardless of where you might go and regardless of what your plans for life are. In another way it is a good question, especially as it focuses on Thailand. In discussions with fellow expats and wannabe expats I always come to the conclusion that Thailand is where it is today mainly because of the Thai women. I have been living and working with Thai employees in Thailand for 22 years now, experienced a lot of hardship and had to make a lot of compromises, throw old western thinking structures in the bin, etc.

What I have seen so far boils down to the fact that Thai women are the driving force here in Thailand - percentage-wise they have more intellect, work harder, are cleverer, more creative and versatile, and they adapt easier to unforeseen changes than their male counterparts. In regards to the topic question it would be downright wrong to simply focus on the sexual part, the prostitution and how easy it is to not be alone here in Thailand if you feel lonely. Another point is that most women in Thailand embrace their female role, whereas in the western world most women nowadays want to be hardcore businesswomen with no time for family, kids, or romance...

I have to admit that initially a woman was the reason for me to move to Thailand back then in '91, but once the first euphoria faded out, I realised that I want to spend the rest of my life here because I learned to love the land, the food, the people, the laissez faire attitude and the relative freedom one enjoys here on a daily basis. Of course, there are some black dots, like corruption, lack of safety issues, etc. but the good outweighs the bad by far. I would never, never, trade my life here for a life in Europe, and to answer your question, I am not arrogant and ignorant enough (unlike some other forum members here) to say that I could be where I am today without the help of my several former Thai girlfriends and (in the more mature stage of my stay here) my Thai wife. It took me about 12 years to find the right one though.

Ignore the comments in this thread where so called "experts" warn you of all the Thai women who are only out to rip you off and are in just for the money. Of course, we have a lot of rotten apples here and the girlie bar scene is probably the worst fishing ground to find a reliable life partner, but - man, just enjoy life and embrace and cherish all the good things that are waiting for you here. Follow your heart and your intuition, and welcome every setback as a lesson learned, stand up again and keep walking! Keep in mind that you will only make it here in Thailand when you have been all the way down, sitting in the deepest $3ite you can imagine, without a single Baht left in your account, just wondering "what just happened". Only the ones who manage to stand up again and again after each failure will make it here in Thailand. You will then find out that there are Thai woman out there willing to help you back onto your feet, knowing that you have absolutely nothing to give and they have nothing to gain but your love and friendship. I have seen it all - and everyone who calls me a dreamer after reading all this has not been where I have been, sitting in the grim reaper's lap and coming back to tell the story.

Last but not least - when you really want to make it here in Thailand, stay away from your fellow country men and "best (western) friends" since they most likely are the ones who will rip you off and fail you when you need them most.

All the best to you for your future ventures in Thailand.

I have a lot to say about this post but it's late and I've had a long day and another tomorrow...

Suffice it to say for now that so much of that could have been written by me.

[aTomsLife]

I was shocked when I saw my first fight between foreigners in early 2002..these aren't quality people in any definition..

The whole perception of a farang has also changed..the money element is there..it may always have been but for many it's business...

It appears I understood him perfectly well, too. We simply misunderstood each other, SteeleJoe.

Edited July 25, 2013 by aTomsLife

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

So many amazingly self sufficient self made "I never needed nowt from no-one" people in this thread who apparently know everything about Thailand and picked it all up totally by themselves that I'm surprised so many of their other posts are basically whining about how Xenophobic and horribly brutal life is in Thailand.

the smugness is strong in this thread(not from you OP obviously)

an open question to all you self sufficient Godly men amongst Mice...when exactly did your rose tinted glasses turn crap coloured brown vis a vis Thailand?

[pigeonjake]

in my opinion , you only have to read TV on daily to see that most wouldnt be able to settle without help,

you read can i own a car?

how to open a bank account?

were is the cheapest hotel in such a part ?

its all here in black and white,

i for one found it very easy,,,,,,,, becouse my wife helped me,,

jake

[hellodolly]

Thailand was my choice I came here and met her and we have been together 7 years. I could have made it easy enough as I had my retirement visa when I arrived here. The only help she did was in what city to stay in.

I guess I was just lucky but then again I wasn't looking in the bars for a young girl. Or for that matter any one.

[benalibina]

Don't really know what to make of this question... In some way it is a downright stupid question to ask, since in life you always will need the help of other people, men AND women, and this regardless of where you might go and regardless of what your plans for life are. In another way it is a good question, especially as it focuses on Thailand. In discussions with fellow expats and wannabe expats I always come to the conclusion that Thailand is where it is today mainly because of the Thai women. I have been living and working with Thai employees in Thailand for 22 years now, experienced a lot of hardship and had to make a lot of compromises, throw old western thinking structures in the bin, etc.

What I have seen so far boils down to the fact that Thai women are the driving force here in Thailand - percentage-wise they have more intellect, work harder, are cleverer, more creative and versatile, and they adapt easier to unforeseen changes than their male counterparts. In regards to the topic question it would be downright wrong to simply focus on the sexual part, the prostitution and how easy it is to not be alone here in Thailand if you feel lonely. Another point is that most women in Thailand embrace their female role, whereas in the western world most women nowadays want to be hardcore businesswomen with no time for family, kids, or romance...

I have to admit that initially a woman was the reason for me to move to Thailand back then in '91, but once the first euphoria faded out, I realised that I want to spend the rest of my life here because I learned to love the land, the food, the people, the laissez faire attitude and the relative freedom one enjoys here on a daily basis. Of course, there are some black dots, like corruption, lack of safety issues, etc. but the good outweighs the bad by far. I would never, never, trade my life here for a life in Europe, and to answer your question, I am not arrogant and ignorant enough (unlike some other forum members here) to say that I could be where I am today without the help of my several former Thai girlfriends and (in the more mature stage of my stay here) my Thai wife. It took me about 12 years to find the right one though.

Ignore the comments in this thread where so called "experts" warn you of all the Thai women who are only out to rip you off and are in just for the money. Of course, we have a lot of rotten apples here and the girlie bar scene is probably the worst fishing ground to find a reliable life partner, but - man, just enjoy life and embrace and cherish all the good things that are waiting for you here. Follow your heart and your intuition, and welcome every setback as a lesson learned, stand up again and keep walking! Keep in mind that you will only make it here in Thailand when you have been all the way down, sitting in the deepest $3ite you can imagine, without a single Baht left in your account, just wondering "what just happened". Only the ones who manage to stand up again and again after each failure will make it here in Thailand. You will then find out that there are Thai woman out there willing to help you back onto your feet, knowing that you have absolutely nothing to give and they have nothing to gain but your love and friendship. I have seen it all - and everyone who calls me a dreamer after reading all this has not been where I have been, sitting in the grim reaper's lap and coming back to tell the story.

Last but not least - when you really want to make it here in Thailand, stay away from your fellow country men and "best (western) friends" since they most likely are the ones who will rip you off and fail you when you need them most.

All the best to you for your future ventures in Thailand.

I applaude you for the quality and human way of your comment. I do not agree a 100% with it, but it is written with a heart and knowlegde. My compliments again.

[Andre0720]

^{In every instance where I needed help from a woman in Thailand, it cost me dearly}

[F4UCorsair]

The little contact I've had with Thai women, and I don't believe any of them have been hookers, ex or current, showed me that they were always on the take, secret commissions, most expensive options, etc. I expected a little humility. They always went for the biggest and best, restaurants, etc., things they would have never been in a position to afford themselves.

I wouldn't want any help from one if I was to settle there, and would probably prefer to hire rather than buy.

I feel so very sorry for you. You have apparently been treated very poorly by the local women and that is very sad.

Perhaps you haven't considered how arrogant you were towards them, how you wanted only to use them, like so many others who come to Thailand and perhaps you only met poor Thai women who were desperate enough to even look at you. You poor pathetic dumb ass. I object to people like you even being allowed to set foot in Thailand, let alone stay here. Go back to where you came from, Thailand and in particular, the Women of Thailand will be all the better for it.

Thank you for your kind words. I guess you won't be giving my post a "like"??

[F4UCorsair]

I don't understand the OP's question, why would one need a Thai lady to build up something in Thailand ?? Many would have been better off without one !

Lawyers are more useful then Thai women.

And probably cost less rubberduck!!! They may not provide the same 'extras', but their advice would no doubt be better.

[pigeonjake]

the topic should of been could you of settled without the internet and TV,

thers some bloke asking what kind of fridge to buy,,lol,

samsung mate,,lol

[benalibina]

the topic should of been could you of settled without the internet and TV,

thers some bloke asking what kind of fridge to buy,,lol,

samsung mate,,lol

He must have asked his girl first. She replied; up to you ! So where else could he have gone to ask advice ?

Yes TV !

And you helped him, on the wrong topic though.

[elektrified]

I just showed up. Just like I did in several European cities. Got on just fine. Why would anyone need help from a woman or anyone for that matter? Maybe stay at home if you can't do it on your own.