Chevrolet supplied an old engine in a new car

[fft100]

Hi,

I am not sure how to progress with this as I am not clear what product laws there are in Thailand. If anyone has any experience of something similar, or a lawyer that practises in this field etc I would be most grateful for any information. I have looked at the Chevrolet site in the USA thinking of escalating it over there, but it is not obvious how to do that.

Details below.

In July 2012 I ordered a new Chevrolet Captiva LT with AWD and the VCDi engine. The car was delivered to me on the 31st August 2012.

When I was selecting the Captiva, I looked at the Chevrolet website, and the Captiva Brochure. In both cases, they said the engine was the 163PS engine with the 6 speed gearbox. There was no mention of the previous 150 PS engine. I mentioned to my thai wife and the sales staff at the time that it had the new engine which was better than the old one.

The website as at May 2012, i.e. before I ordered, can be seen at the wayback machine

http://web.archive.org/web/20120528053137/http://www.chevrolet.co.th/vehicles/view-all-vehicles/cars/captiva/models.html

The Captiva brochure has a date on the last page of 10/10/11. The manuals included with the car, both Thai and English, only mention the 163 PS engine and the 6 speed transmission. When I received the car, the registration document arrived over 1 month later

In July 2013 I received an insurance update form. On that, I noticed that the VIN number was 2011, and that the engine was rated at 150PS. Looking at the blue book that arrived a month or two after I took delivery of the car, that also has 150PS.

I went to the Chevrolet garage and spoke to the manager. She assured me that I had the new engine, and that all the Diesel cars had the same information in the blue book (registration document). She was so sure, that she showed me other registration documents from Diesel Captivas that also said 150PS. Some of these appeared to be after the date I had bought my car.

I was still not sure, so I asked what the visible difference was between the 150PS and the 163PS engine. No one from the garage knew, so the manager called Chevrolet Head Office in Thailand. They checked and said that I had the old 150PS engine with 5 speed box.

I pointed out that this was unacceptable. I had bought a car with the new engine and transmission and had been sold a car with the old engine and transmission. Apart from not enjoying the proper performance, when I come to sell the car, it will not be worth as much as a car with the new engine.

To avoid problems, I suggested that they took my car as a trade in and sold me a new Captiva with the new engine. Of course, there would be a small extra payment to allow for the year of use. The manager refused, saying that she could not do that. I then asked her to talk to Head Office. After 2 weeks and a number of phone calls, I have been told there is no response. Head Office do not seem interested in sorting out the problem.

On the paperwork when ordering, there is no mention of the output of the engine or the number of gears in the transmission. It is just a 2.0 Diesel.

Edited August 7, 2013 by george

[billd766]

Send a registered letter to the MD of Chevrolet Thailand personally giving a date in two or 3 weeks that you want a response by.

If there is no response by that date send another letter to the CEO of Chevrolet USA, copy to Chevrolet Thailand explaining the problem and asking for a response within a time period.

If that doesn't work try the Consumer body in Thailand and after that go viral on the internet as you won't have anything to lose by then.

[Wavefloater]

I agree that you should send a letter to the US head office. After all, GM is an American company. As said above, CC it to the head Office of the Thailand operation. However, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a reply -- GM has taken a nose dive and seems to be a company that just doesn't care anymore. I know how bad it got when my oldest brother, who has been a die-hard GM fan all of his (45+ years) driving life stopped buying from them a few years ago. He felt that quality of their cars and the commitment to the customer just wasn't there anymore. Your only solution might be to buy a Mazda (or something similar) next time.

[yoshiwara]

You will get no joy at the Thai end. It is certainly newsworthy that Chevrolet are sticking old engines in new cars and shipping them out.

There are a lot of people who would be interested in this story, assuming it is straight up.

[Gsxrnz]

I would say you have zero chance of getting this resolved. If you had noticed immediately on delivery BEFORE you drove the vehicle and before signing delivery documents etc, then you could have got it sorted. All you can do now is sell the vehicle and buy the one you want - the "trade-in" concept isn't well understood in Thailand.

Didn't you notice that you were missing 6th gear?

The vehicle will have a badge/label under the bonnet/hood that will state the model number and serial number of the engine I should think.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[fft100]

And how are you supposed to notice it before driving it ? BTW, The engine number does not indicate whether it is a new engine or not (they all start Z20D1). Even Chevrolet dealers don't know how to tell the difference by looking at it. Does anyone google engine numbers before taking delivery ? if you had read all the above you would notice I say that no documents say what the engine power is, just the size.

Both the new and old are 2.0L diesels. And you can tell the difference between a 5 speed auto and 6 speed auto ?

When spending over 1.6m baht, I think you have a reasonable assumption that what is delivered is what is advertised. It is a pity as the captiva is one of the very few European style/spec/safety orientated cars over here at a non-extortionate price. for example, I think it is the only car with curtain airbags all the way from front to back for example.

I think the letter to both USA and Thai head offices is the way to go to start things off.

[Commander Tamson]

Interesting story and possibly a good warning for all - not just for those interested in Captivas or Chevys.

the Far East/SE Asia may well be considered a good dumping ground for 'old spec, unsold stock'

I say Go Viral

[Gsxrnz]

And how are you supposed to notice it before driving it ? BTW, The engine number does not indicate whether it is a new engine or not (they all start Z20D1). Even Chevrolet dealers don't know how to tell the difference by looking at it. Does anyone google engine numbers before taking delivery ? if you had read all the above you would notice I say that no documents say what the engine power is, just the size.

Both the new and old are 2.0L diesels. And you can tell the difference between a 5 speed auto and 6 speed auto ?

When spending over 1.6m baht, I think you have a reasonable assumption that what is delivered is what is advertised. It is a pity as the captiva is one of the very few European style/spec/safety orientated cars over here at a non-extortionate price. for example, I think it is the only car with curtain airbags all the way from front to back for example.

I think the letter to both USA and Thai head offices is the way to go to start things off.

Sorry if my post was misleading - I do think you possibly have a legitimate claim against the dealer, but I think the chances of getting it resolved are virtually nil due to the time between delivery and raising the issue, and partially because TIT, language barrier, understanding, face etc.

Unless you have documentation that specifically states that you ordered a 2012 year of manufacture/VIN, then that will be your only possible avenue of recourse. If delivery documents or invoice mention the 2011 VIN, then you won't have a leg to stand on.

It's all down to what you signed when you ordered and accepted the vehicle - if the documentation is wrong or vague, then that counts in your favour.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[harrry]

It is possible that the dealer has not even taken it up with Bangkok but just answered as he hopes you will go away. Thailand does have a consumer affairs department that could give you some assistance by getting together copies of the webpage etc and saying this is what you will be submitting to them and to head office in the US it may start some action. Worth a try you cannot lose anything more.

Edited August 7, 2013 by harrry

[lemoncake]

Depending on where you are based, there is a consumer protection board agency which occasionally can help

If you in Pattaya, they are located at the city hall, on the ground floor in "legal department"

However be warned Chevy in Thailand is known for driving people crazy, not so long ago, a cop went crazy shooting up Chevy dealership.

I would not even waste time with Thai head office, Contact US head office, and ask to contact Thailand-more chance of getting the right person

[Gomyway]

It's really the best to report this to GM in USA and CC to GM here in LoS.

For you to be sure what you got you can take a look at the VIN - position 10 tells the modelyear, if it is a B you have a 2011 and if it's a C your car is a 2012.

At the attached picture you can see how the VIN is decoded.

If you want to take a look for more informations, please follow this link: http://www.nhtsa.gov/search?q=vin&x=0&y=0

Good luck.

PS: To test your transmission shift the gears manually and count how many you get.

[Familyonthemove]

There must be quite people with the same issue ...... worth having it posted in Thai on Panthip?

[Slip]

That's what you get for driving an automatic. If it had been manual you would have noticed in seconds. US head office is the way to go in the 1st instance I reckon. You could try Thailand first but I wouldn't give them too much leeway in reply. Simply state that if you don't have a reply in 5 (3)? days you will escalate the issue to a global HQ level. You have after all been swindled if your account of the matter is as you say.

[harrry]

There must be quite people with the same issue ...... worth having it posted in Thai on Panthip?

I would advise against this as defamation laws are so strict here.

[harrry]

Just noticed the google add on my page is for the Chevrolet Captiva.

[gamini]

I had nothing but problems with my Chev. Every time I sent it for service after the guarantee expired they told me I needed new brakes liners or some such thing with huge bills. I was convinced that I was getting ripped off. I sold it and bought a Toyota Camry the maintenance of which was neglible compared to the Chev

[colin2]

How can you prove that the 150ps car isn't what you ordered ?. Do you have any paper work to prove it ?.

Also Chevy customer service is extremely poor every where.

Good luck !.

[Ace of Pop]

Even My Mrs would have noticed there was a Gear Missing on the first Day. 150 or 160 hardly anything too notice.

[Naam]

That's what you get for driving an automatic. If it had been manual you would have noticed in seconds. US head office is the way to go in the 1st instance I reckon. You could try Thailand first but I wouldn't give them too much leeway in reply. Simply state that if you don't have a reply in 5 (3)? days you will escalate the issue to a global HQ level. You have after all been swindled if your account of the matter is as you say.

keep on dreaming!

[Ace of Pop]

Wonder if he gave all this info to the Guy he sold it too.A Trader would have spotted a Fault.

[impulse]

Seems to me that bigger issue is that you bought a 2012 model vehicle and they delivered to you a 2011 model.

If the documents say 2012, and the VIN shows it's a 2011, that's a much bigger issue than 150/163.

That rises to the level of fraud.

I'd be pursuing that instead of the engine not being the one advertised, which could be dismissed as a commercial misunderstanding.

Edit: It is possible you got a 2012 model built in 2011, since I don't know what month they introduce the new models here in Thailand. But from the engine, it's reasonable to do some diligence to see if what you got was, in fact, a leftover 2011.

Edited August 8, 2013 by impulse

[i claudius]

I have a chevy and must admit it is very good ,some years ago their service dept in Pattaya was very good ,but for the last two services i have gone elsewhere ,the reason being that they tried to charge me for things that were not needed and to be honest they were not very good but charged a lot.,such a shame ,because they started out so well.

[Woodsie888]

The OP has purchased a 'new & unused car'. He has not purchased a 'brand new car'. There is a difference, believe me. He obviously wanted a 'brand new car', and thought he was buying one, but he did need to stipulate in his purchase contract that he was buying the latest 163 bhp, 6 speed A/T version. Normally, all brochures have a disclaimer from the manufacturer stating, 'specifications and price may change without notice', or words to that effect.

Sadly, he was not probably aware of the fact that there was old stock around and that's what he's ended up with.

Perhaps there is a difference in list price between the two which may be worth following up. He may have paid new price for an old model? That might cause the dealer an issue. Then again if he paid old price, he got exactly what he paid for.

The Dealer most certainly 'knew' wether the OP's car was new or old model.

The manufacturer always stands up for the dealer in these cases, unless the dealer has been fraudulent.

My comments come from years of experience dealing with this exact problem.

[NCC1701A]

if you can't get this worked out, document your story and make a video and put in on you tube.

[Asiantravel]

if you can't get this worked out, document your story and make a video and put in on you tube.

I think better for him to refer it to this Thai government body ( or he in the end may risk being sued himself by Chevrolet )

From my experience of dealing with this department business organisations don't like having these people on their backs

www.ocpb.go.th/main.php?filename=index