Oil leak: Rayong fishermen refuse to accept Bt1,000 per day in compensation

[NongKhaiKid]

A thousand baht a day does not even cover the fuel charges for the boat. Which ironically they probably buy from PTT anyway. A company that made 650,000 Million last year should be made to pay for their mistakes. The fisherman's reputation and livelyhood has been stained even if they have cleaned up the sea. The value of their catch goes down so they have to catch more and more. Also affecting the sustainability of the fishing industry in Rayong. PTT should have to pay more damages and for a longer period than 30 days. It's a clear case of trying to shirk responsibility and the power of the big company versus the ordinary man. Not to mention that the politicians having a vested interest in PTT rather than protecting the people they represent.

'The people they represent' ???? I wonder who owns the boats ??? individual fishermen who live in shacks near the sea ????

the persons who will lose out are the men/boys who work for the boat people.

This is a similar situ to the rice money---no local person got anything from this rice cock-up....and so the same here --all those who are crying are those who own many boats.

PTT will not throw away money that can be banked by the shareholders.

'm no expert but it seems it's not just about now and lost earnings but what about the future with depleted stocks as this isn't going to go away overnight. I doubt it can be quantified so let's throw some money at the peasants, hope they grab it and get back to making money.

[NongKhaiKid]

 

1000 a day for going nothing does not sound too bad, people get greedy when big corporations are concerned.

 

Thais are a greedy nation in general

I live in a rented house with some very productive mango trees in the garden. Every year my landlord and wife come to get the green mangoes knowing i don't like them but they always give or leave the yellow for me.

Recently the wife visited with a friend and this lady asked if she could get some mangoes and promptly picked every yellow one she could find, I asked quite nicely if she would leave some for me and she promptly threw the bag on the ground and stormed off. Even the landlady was embarrassed and the landlord, an army officer, called to apologise. That sort of behaviour defies description.

we also had ponces wanting free mangos,bananas and coconuts,they were welcome to them,alas my 45 kilo pitbull seemed to put them off,and i was buggered if i was shimying up to get them,the local orphange did well though,the dog loved playing catch with the little tykes.happy days,sorry off topic,i thought i,d share a good news story

And why not, always good in a while and i hope the Mods don't take us off.

[paulward75]

Whatever these fisherman receive by way of compensation will not enough in my opinion. Why can't we support them rather talking about greed. Surely the greedy one here is the filthy petroleum company. Why not support the underdog and stop being so cynical. This is their livelihoods, their business and their families lives being affected. Why not support them, I know if it were me I want the support of the people. Point taken there are greedy people everywhere and in every country but I'm not sure a few mangos in your garden equates to the livelihoods of these people. Popular support is all they have right now. Lets give it to them.

[ginjag]

Whatever these fisherman receive by way of compensation will not enough in my opinion. Why can't we support them rather talking about greed. Surely the greedy one here is the filthy petroleum company. Why not support the underdog and stop being so cynical. This is their livelihoods, their business and their families lives being affected. Why not support them, I know if it were me I want the support of the people. Point taken there are greedy people everywhere and in every country but I'm not sure a few mangos in your garden equates to the livelihoods of these people. Popular support is all they have right now. Lets give it to them.

Where do you draw a line at who is the hard-up one. ??? PTT has to dig into it's vast reserves and pay out. Problem is who to. ??

there are so many greedy weathy fish boat owners that have overfished, raked in young fish and shellfish and do not throw them back.

THE OLD SAYING HERE, they never know when to stop, everything corruption, alcohol, domestic abuse. it is this in built greed and want in society. We name big business-government-bib---Phuket-Samui-mafia.

So yes make this government owned PTT pay up BUT not to the weathy boat owners, but the solitary fishermen and families-market stall usually run by Mother and gran selling the fish dad got that day, These are the people that wwill get s#d all. Floods come to mind, traffic accidents, rice small scale-farmer.

[CIHUAHUA]

Maybe they should pay the tourists something who wanted to vacation during that time.

[cobra1]

I think we are all missing the point here if they own a boat for fishing and with their staff on board and boat expensive to take it out or leaving it harbour yes they would rightly want more compensation for not being able to earn a salary for them selves and their staff (gasahol, nets,staff wages,etc )

[wade72]

The Major shareholders of PTT. #1 The Ministry of Finance as the majority shareholder.

Nothing else to say.

1. กระทรวงการคลัง 1,459,885,575 51.11

2. กองทุนรวม วายุภักษ์หนึ่ง โดย บลจ.เอ็มเอฟซี จำกัด (มหาชน) 217,900,000 7.63 3. กองทุนรวม วายุภักษ์หนึ่ง โดย บลจ.กรุงไทย จำกัด (มหาชน) 217,900,000 7.63 4. บริษัท ไทยเอ็นวีดีอาร์ จำกัด 122,378,282 4.28 5. CHASE NOMINEES LIMITED 42 72,892,701 2.55 6. HSBC (SINGAPORE) NOMINEES PTE LTD 68,026,201 2.38 7. STATE STREET BANK EUROPE LIMITED 28,817,224 1.01 8. STATE STREET BANK AND TRUST COMPANY 23,177,046 0.81 9. สำนักงานประกันสังคม (2 กรณี) 22,280,000 0.78 10. NORTRUST NOMINEES LIMITED-NT0 SEC LENDING THAILAND 21,610,118 0.76 11. GOVERNMENT OF SINGAPORE INVESTMENT CORPORATION C 17,558,900 0.61 12. THE BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON 15,495,248 0.54 13. THE BANK OF NEW YORK (NOMINEES) LIMITED 15,429,726 0.54 14. THE BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON-CGT TAXABLE 14,880,417 0.52

Source:

http://www.set.or.th/set/companyholder.do?symbol=PTT&language=en&country=US

*EDIT - Didn't post properly, PTT is 51.11% owned by the Ministry of Finance.

Edited August 9, 2013 by wade72

[ginjag]

I think we are all missing the point here if they own a boat for fishing and with their staff on board and boat expensive to take it out or leaving it harbour yes they would rightly want more compensation for not being able to earn a salary for them selves and their staff (gasahol, nets,staff wages,etc )

Even more to the point, they want to pay out on earnings LOST. owners/fishermen employed. As already stated they will have no fishing expences incured as they cannot fish. SO pay them for not fishing PTT.

on a lighter note not fishing ?? well lads you got wages so repair/paint/ service your boats, ( have time to use your TACKLE )

[stoli]

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

1,000 baht a day does not compensate a boat owner, and maybe his crew of 10, all of whom were not able to fish during this period. How about the people that sell fuel, bait, supplies? Where do they get compensated by someone's screw up at PTT?

[monkeycountry]

Rayong fishermen refuse to accept Bt1,000 per day in compensation

JUMPOL NIKOMRAK,

PIYANUT TUMNUKASETCHAI

THE NATION

RAYONG: -- FISHERMEN IN Rayong are getting ready to fight against the Bt1,000 daily compensation proposed to make up for the loss of income caused by the recent oil leak.

Their livelihoods were affected when some 50,000 litres of crude oil leaked from a PTT Global Chemical (PTTGC) offshore pipeline on July 27. There are about 800 small trawlers in Rayong.

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income," Rayong Small Fishing Trawler Association president |Jaturas Iamworanirun said at a meeting yesterday, which was attended by about 1,000 fishermen.

At the meeting, the participants were given a form, reportedly prepared by Chulalongkorn University, in which they were asked to specify the amount of squid, shrimp, fish and clams they could catch every day on average. "These forms will provide the information," Jaturas said.

Earlier, the Rayong provincial government asked those affected to come forward and claim compensation. However, Jaturas said, the authorities seemed to be prepared to pay just Bt1,000 in daily compensation for a period of 30 days.

"We can't accept that," Jaturas said.

He said that once the real average income was calculated, his association would submit the information to Rayong Governor Wichit Chatphaisit, PTTGC and the National Human Rights Commission to push for fair compensation.

Separately, Department of Special Investigation (DSI) chief Tarit Pengdith said yesterday that it was clear the leakage could not be blamed on natural causes. "We are going to determine the exact cause. It's possible that somebody's recklessness led to the leak," he said.

He said DSI investigators would also need to rely on information gathered by the PTT fact-finding committee. PTTGC is a unit of PTT.

Although the DSI has not yet taken this up as a special case, it has asked 14 relevant agencies to provide information. These agencies include PTTGC, the Pollution Control Department and the Marine Department.

-- The Nation 2013-08-09

First if all, most uneducated Thais, such as fishermen, do not understand the concept of "average". Secondly, they will most likely remember the catch on their best day ever, double it, and put that on the paper.

But yes, I agree with finding out how much they usually make. They claim to make more than 1k/day, so over 30k/month. with such a high income (no expenses?), they must be paying taxes, so their income can be seen on their tax return :-)

In any case, it's not like there is oil everywhere, far from it, so the vast majority of fishermen in rayong have probably not lost any income at all.

[monkeycountry]

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

And nothing for damages?

Damages to whom? Did any fishermen get hurt?

[monkeycountry]

What an absolute insult and a slap in the face with the back of a shovel. PTT is worth billions, did very little to clean up the mess (Volunteers worked hard) and offering a pissy 1K baht per day compensation around 6K in total. Drop a couple of shackles at the feet of the peasants and everything evaporates and never happened.

Why isn't Yingluck's Natural Resources Minister stepping to insure that adequate compensation is paid to the hard-working masses that elected them?

Too many vested interests in play. How many in government, politicians in general, VIPs etc are shareholders ? Politicians of course will not be but Dolly the family carabao will hold a large stake.

Yingluck proved yesterday she only cares about big business, huge profits and a few high value bills that can mean more food in the trough.

When it comes to the little hard working people .... bugger off is the attitude

Are you referring to the little hard working people who according to themselves make a lot more than 1,000 baht per day, yet never pay any tax, and throw all their garbage overboard polluting reefs and beaches 10 times more than any oil spill ever has?

[monkeycountry]

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

1,000 baht a day does not compensate a boat owner, and maybe his crew of 10, all of whom were not able to fish during this period. How about the people that sell fuel, bait, supplies? Where do they get compensated by someone's screw up at PTT?

I am guessing PTT is selling the fuel :-)

[monkeycountry]

A thousand baht a day does not even cover the fuel charges for the boat. Which ironically they probably buy from PTT anyway. A company that made 650,000 Million last year should be made to pay for their mistakes. The fisherman's reputation and livelyhood has been stained even if they have cleaned up the sea. The value of their catch goes down so they have to catch more and more. Also affecting the sustainability of the fishing industry in Rayong. PTT should have to pay more damages and for a longer period than 30 days. It's a clear case of trying to shirk responsibility and the power of the big company versus the ordinary man. Not to mention that the politicians having a vested interest in PTT rather than protecting the people they represent.

dunno where you get your numbers from, but in 2012 (last year) PTTGC made 34 billion and PTT 104 billion net profit.

Edited August 10, 2013 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

'The authorities seemed to be prepared to pay just Bt1,000 in daily compensation for a period of 30 days'

So that's 30,000 baht per person. Seems pretty good to me, paid holiday, take the money and move on.

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

So show us your tax returns....what !? You don't have any ? You don't pay tax ? Give us 20 years of back tax plus interest, then we will talk about giving you more compensation...

As for future, I agree PTT should pay more, but that money should be used to take care of the environment.

The sale of agricultural produce is VAT exempt in Thailand. Thus, rarely if ever declared on a taxeable report. Just another convenient way for middle men to wash cash and the such. However, presumably, they have some records scrawled on the back of a fag pack, concerning their daily take of which types of fish, and another piece of paper showing how much cash the buyer gave them.

At the end of the day, 1000 baht is I reckon extremely low.

What has VAT got to do with anything. He is talking about tax returns, as in income tax returns. And no, the fishermen are not exempt from paying income tax, although I am sure none of them do, which means they cheat us all, and have done so for decades. Even if they make less than the minimum required to pay income tax they a still required to file a tax return, and had they done so, it would now be very easy to find out how much they actually make and thereby how much compensation they should get. Som Nam Na.

[Thai at Heart]

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

And nothing for damages?

Damages to whom? Did any fishermen get hurt?

Compensation is what you lost, damages go beyond that for future inability to regain business.

[GentlemanJim]

"At the meeting, the participants were given a form, reportedly prepared by Chulalongkorn University, in which they were asked to specify the amount of squid, shrimp, fish and clams they could catch every day on average. "These forms will provide the information,..."

Unfortunately, neither side is to be trusted. PTTGC insults the fishermen with a paltry compensation, but, I am sure the fishermen are overestimating their catch. I suppose when you are forced to decide between two crooks, you support "Our Crook". alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20> alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20> alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20>

1000 a day for going nothing does not sound too bad, people get greedy when big corporations are concerned.

You guy's clearly have no idea of how business actually runs. Some of these fishermen have to pay 2000 baht per day or more to pay for the rental or loans on their boats whether they fish or not. The money they earn each day also has to supplement what they don't get when weather conditions prohibit fishing. Some of the fishermen employ other people. Fish is not a cheap commodity and you don't see many wealthy fishermen because the overhead costs of getting the fish from the sea to your plate are so high. Giving a fisherman 1000 baht a day does not even start to cover basic daily overheads that exists if they fish or not.

Unless PTT is kicked very hard between the legs in financial terms then they have absolutely no motivation to spend money on improving safety systems, because these companies are run by accountants. If they have an accident and pay $1000 000 in compensation, but to improve safety systems costs $5000 000 what do you think the accountant will choose? Hell you can have 5 major accidents before you are out of pocket, that could be 20 years...done! pay paltry compensation, ignore safety and environment. Hit them with $500 000 000 in compensation and fines and the safety measures they need will be paid for and implemented next week!

[monkeycountry]

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

And nothing for damages?

Damages to whom? Did any fishermen get hurt?

Compensation is what you lost, damages go beyond that for future inability to regain business.

I assume that would only be a problem if a large portion of the fish in the area has died. Is that the case? I have not read about lots of dead fish anywhere?

As far as I know, the main reason of the decline in fish stock is overfishing and the fact that the fishermen catch the young fish as well and damage reefs with the nets and other garbage.

Perhaps the fishermen can use the compensation they get from PTT to pay for the damage they have done to the diving industry, tourism industry and Thailand in general?

Edited August 10, 2013 by monkeycountry