Investing in property in thailand

[KittenKong]

You have obviously only been around the lower end of the market. Try a more expensive place and you won't find any dogs or screaming kids. Many gated communities are very peaceful.

One of the estates I was on had houses selling for over 18MB, and I thought it was noisy and cramped. At that price I doubt this was the "lower end".

[Naam]

I own property all over the world, i have decided to sell up and am in the process of doing so,, i have sold all my property in first world countries and the property i have left am having great difficulty in selling the rest, you know the story of how to make a small fortune in Thailand, today i would never buy property anywhere in the universe, i would rent and if i didn't like my neighbors, i would move, no painting, no maintenance and always have a new property, as the song goes "oh oh oh oh once bitten twice shy boy" you know the rest. Buying property today is not a good good financial decision if you are not in your own country,, too much political instability world wide, i want to keep my hands on my money at all times,,,, good luck to all...

like the guy that built his million dollar dream home and then the karaoke bar started next door

only an idiot builds a million dollar dream home in Thailand outside a top rated gated community where strict regulations apply and are enforced.

not so

if you know anything about physics you will enerstand the following:

Your gated community logic only applies if you live in a vacuum.

Too add to the issue you might replace Karaoke with the idiot next door with yapping dogs ;-)

in a top rated gated community your land is not the size of a bath towel. you might of course hear a dog barking once in a while but you never hear your neighbour belching or farting which is highly likely when you live in a condo.

[Naam]

"Gated communities" (or housing estates, as I call them) here seem to be very densely packed and rarely have plots of the size that I would like in order to put me at a suitable distance from my neighbours. And all the ones I have ever visited here seem to be blighted by barking dogs and screaming kids, both of which are intolerable noises as far as I'm concerned.

we have some 40 homes in our community and except for a few Thai style homes on plots of 400-500m² the average land size on which a home sits is 1-1½ rai. the only dogs i hear barking are my own dogs when they greet a visitor entering our house and demand a treat.

during the construction of our home we lived in a Jomtien penthouse (19th floor) where the noise pollution was horrible.

to be fair... i know a couple of gated communities which are more "hi-so" than the one we are living and where the land size does not match the size of the homes, i.e. they have a patch of garden with a lawn size that can be taken care of by using scissors.

[davejones]

Maybe that is your perception but all the resale properties have already sold this month all for more than the owners originally paid. Those eager buyers don't want shoebox condos, they want quality property in a good location which in my experience normally sells quickly at a profit.

Very true. But most on here seem to only know people that bought tiny, overpriced condos that they had to sell at a loss. Location, location, location is true the world over. The that message seems to be lost on most people here.

A friend sold his very nice 80sqm unit in one of Jomtien's busiest and most popular condo buildings recently for less than he bought it for 7 years ago. Another friend in the same building has his large 110sqm condo for sale for nearly 20% under the price he paid for it new. No takers so far.

So even with the right location you may not get your money back.

I wouldn't call Jomtien a good location. It is vastly oversupplied, and they are building massive amounts of extra condos.The building may be popular, but the location is pretty bad. It will be the first place to suffer in any downturn. And nearly all the property seems VERY overpriced, so I'm not all all surprised that people are trying to sell for less than they bought. Just one look at that area and you can tell it's not a good investment.

Even if you disagree and think the location is good, then it is obvious that they overpaid for their condos. So of course they will get less if they paid too much to begin with. Many of the new condo prices I've seen in Pattaya area seem really, really overpriced. But you can't blame the developers, as some people are willing to pay the money being asked.

[KittenKong]

I wouldn't call Jomtien a good location. It is vastly oversupplied, and they are building massive amounts of extra condos.The building may be popular, but the location is pretty bad. It will be the first place to suffer in any downturn. And nearly all the property seems VERY overpriced, so I'm not all all surprised that people are trying to sell for less than they bought. Just one look at that area and you can tell it's not a good investment.

Even if you disagree and think the location is good, then it is obvious that they overpaid for their condos. So of course they will get less if they paid too much to begin with. Many of the new condo prices I've seen in Pattaya area seem really, really overpriced. But you can't blame the developers, as some people are willing to pay the money being asked.

You may not call Jomtien a good location for buying in, but it is an excellent location for living in, at least the part near Thappraya Road/Beach Road where the public transport is. My main interest in property is whether I want to live in it, and I would not care to be stuck up Soi Watboon etc.

The particular building I was referring to is probably the most popular and most conveniently situated condo in the whole of Pattaya.

But even there the resale prices of larger units often dont match the purchase prices (in Baht) of a few years ago. OK this may well be because the purchase prices were absurdly high, but even so it is a mistake to assume that many places actually sell for a profit when the time comes.

I entirely agree about the price of new units in Pattaya/Jomtien, many of which are more than double what they are actually worth, and I suspect that some off-plan "flippers" may be in for a very rude awakening.

[Naam]

some people forget the Baht's appreciation. i built my home changing USD into THB at a rate of ~42.50, that was seven years ago. THB appreciation since then 26.50%, increase of building cost since then not less than +35%. bad deal? i don't think so.

[KittenKong]

some people forget the Baht's appreciation. i built my home changing USD into THB at a rate of ~42.50, that was seven years ago. THB appreciation since then 26.50%, increase of building cost since then not less than +35%. bad deal? i don't think so.

Currency fluctuations are not a valid part of the calculation as they could go in any direction at any time, entirely independently of the value of the property.

And it still does not follow that just because building costs have risen 35% that the value of your property has risen by an equal amount, or even at all. You will only know the real value of your property when someone buys it from you.

What I am saying is that real people whom I know personally have actually sold real condos in good condition and in desirable locations for real money, but have not managed to obtain the Baht price they paid for them x years ago. There is no speculation or currency manipulation involved in this. It is a simple fact.

[davejones]

some people forget the Baht's appreciation. i built my home changing USD into THB at a rate of ~42.50, that was seven years ago. THB appreciation since then 26.50%, increase of building cost since then not less than +35%. bad deal? i don't think so.

Currency fluctuations are not a valid part of the calculation as they could go in any direction at any time, entirely independently of the value of the property.

And it still does not follow that just because building costs have risen 35% that the value of your property has risen by an equal amount, or even at all. You will only know the real value of your property when someone buys it from you.

What I am saying is that real people whom I know personally have actually sold real condos in good condition and in desirable locations for real money, but have not managed to obtain the Baht price they paid for them x years ago. There is no speculation or currency manipulation involved in this. It is a simple fact.

Agree with what you say.

Regarding the real people that bought and then sold for less. I seems like they either paid too much to begin with, or the locations aren't as desirable as they assume. Don't forget that in places like Pattaya and Bangkok, the market is very over-supplied, and this is where most foreigners buy. Location, location, location comes down to particular streets and even particular properties. Even if you think Silom, for example, is a desirable location, there are still streets that are very desirable and streets that aren't. And even in one street, some properties could appreciate while others don't. I don't think most people understand how important location is. The so much oversupply of property, especially condos, this is even more important in places like Bangkok.

[BlackJack]

i know many trying to sell and no buyers (at asking prices)

you may think your dwelling is worth X but try getting it

good luck all

[davejones]

i know many trying to sell and no buyers (at asking prices)

you may think your dwelling is worth X but try getting it

good luck all

If no buyers, then the asking price is too high. It's simple supply and demand. There will ALWAYS be buyers at some price. Sounds like another case of people paying too much to begin with.

If Tesco Lotus sold apples for 10,000 baht a kilo, they wouldn't get buyers either. It doesn't mean that people can't make money buying and selling apples. They just need to buy and sell at the right price. Most foreign property buyers in Thailand don't appear to have any idea about the property market. They just dive in and pay whatever the asking price is for the new condo they saw.

[Jerry Cornelius]

I own property all over the world, i have decided to sell up and am in the process of doing so,, i have sold all my property in first world countries and the property i have left am having great difficulty in selling the rest, you know the story of how to make a small fortune in Thailand, today i would never buy property anywhere in the universe, i would rent and if i didn't like my neighbors, i would move, no painting, no maintenance and always have a new property, as the song goes "oh oh oh oh once bitten twice shy boy" you know the rest. Buying property today is not a good good financial decision if you are not in your own country,, too much political instability world wide, i want to keep my hands on my money at all times,,,, good luck to all...

like the guy that built his million dollar dream home and then the karaoke bar started next door

only an idiot builds a million dollar dream home in Thailand outside a top rated gated community where strict regulations apply and are enforced.

not so

if you know anything about physics you will enerstand the following:

Your gated community logic only applies if you live in a vacuum.

Too add to the issue you might replace Karaoke with the idiot next door with yapping dogs ;-)

You forgot to include the exponential variables for higher temperatures and humidity.

Thailand is both hot and humid.

[Naam]

some people forget the Baht's appreciation. i built my home changing USD into THB at a rate of ~42.50, that was seven years ago. THB appreciation since then 26.50%, increase of building cost since then not less than +35%. bad deal? i don't think so.

Currency fluctuations are not a valid part of the calculation as they could go in any direction at any time, entirely independently of the value of the property.

And it still does not follow that just because building costs have risen 35% that the value of your property has risen by an equal amount, or even at all. You will only know the real value of your property when someone buys it from you.

What I am saying is that real people whom I know personally have actually sold real condos in good condition and in desirable locations for real money, but have not managed to obtain the Baht price they paid for them x years ago. There is no speculation or currency manipulation involved in this. It is a simple fact.

i am not interested whether my property has gone up or down as far as sales value is concerned. my house is not an investment but a basic necessity, its value is totally irrelevant. personally i pity people who consider whatever real estate they buy (to live in it) an "investment".

currency fluctuations and increase of building cost are bloody well a valid part in my "calculation". the land was 18,000 Baht/wah² in 2005, the last plot sold in my moo baan some months ago was priced at 31,000 Baht/wah². important for me is that building the same home today i'd have to shell out 50-60% more. just the land would cost me today a cool 240,000 Dollars (US-Dollars not Zimbabwe Dollars!) more than in 2005.

by the way, those who have bought condos years ago as an investment, i.e. not to live in them but to collect rent from tenants did not fare too bad i think. they had yield and currency appreciation.

[Naam]

like the guy that built his million dollar dream home and then the karaoke bar started next door

only an idiot builds a million dollar dream home in Thailand outside a top rated gated community where strict regulations apply and are enforced.

not so

if you know anything about physics you will enerstand the following:

Your gated community logic only applies if you live in a vacuum.

Too add to the issue you might replace Karaoke with the idiot next door with yapping dogs ;-)

You forgot to include the exponential variables for higher temperatures and humidity.

Thailand is both hot and humid.

not to forget the burning sensation "the morning after" a healthy portion of prik nam pla for those who are not used to it.

[Jerry Cornelius]

not to forget the burning sensation "the morning after" a healthy portion of prik nam pla for those who are not used to it.

Yes, the expulsive echoes will carry much farther than if one were in cooler climes.

Jerry

[KittenKong]

i am not interested whether my property has gone up or down as far as sales value is concerned. my house is not an investment but a basic necessity, its value is totally irrelevant. personally i pity people who consider whatever real estate they buy (to live in it) an "investment".

Great. Why are you posting in a thread about investing in property in Thailand then?

currency fluctuations and increase of building cost are bloody well a valid part in my "calculation". the land was 18,000 Baht/wah² in 2005, the last plot sold in my moo baan some months ago was priced at 31,000 Baht/wah². important for me is that building the same home today i'd have to shell out 50-60% more. just the land would cost me today a cool 240,000 Dollars (US-Dollars not Zimbabwe Dollars!) more t

than in 2005.

Totally irrelevant and could very well have gone the other way. Indeed depending on what currency you do the conversion from it did go the other way.

And I thought that you didnt care about the value of your home anyway?

by the way, those who have bought condos years ago as an investment, i.e. not to live in them but to collect rent from tenants did not fare too bad i think. they had yield and currency appreciation.

Ho ho. Tell that to someone who decided in July 1997 to take their USD life savings and convert them to Baht at some 26B per USD, and then found that two months later that they would need nearly 60B to buy each USD back. Nearly 20 years on and they are still waiting to see par value.

A cracking bargain, that one.

As for collecting rent from tenants, that isn't all chocolate and roses either. Whilst eating Sunday lunch yesterday I couldnt help overhearing the chap at the next table bemoaning the fact that his tenants hadnt paid him for two months. It didnt even seem to be unusual. His next comment was "I wish I'd never bought the bloody thing".

And I've seen a few of the wrecks that bad tenants have left behind them here. Not a pretty (or cheap) sight. There are easier and more reliable investments, I think. YMMV

[Naam]

Why are you posting in a thread about investing in property in Thailand then?

i humbly apologise! in future i will seek your permission and approval in which thread and what content i am allowed to post.

[KittenKong]

Why are you posting in a thread about investing in property in Thailand then?

i humbly apologise! in future i will seek your permission and approval in which thread and what content i am allowed to post.

I don't remember saying that you couldn't post. In fact I would be the first to defend everyone's right to post. I was just wondering why you were talking about treating your house as a home and not an investment in a thread that is specifically about investing in property?

If you want to have a discussion about treating one's house as a home rather than address the technical errors in your previous post, I'm game also.

As far as I'm concerned a house (or condo) is just somewhere I happen to live at the moment. I may no longer be living in it in 20 years or even in 20 days, for various reasons like death or moving to another country or another town, but whilst I am in a place it is my home. But I would never consider a property in a foreign country in which I have no permanent right of abode to be my lifetime home, as I could be expulsed from it at any time at a whim of the government. And of course if the property happens to be a company name house in Thailand there is even less security of tenure.

And I see nothing mutually exclusive about owning a home and treating it as an investment at the same time. One can do the same with fine art.

[BlackJack]

Why are you posting in a thread about investing in property in Thailand then?

i humbly apologise! in future i will seek your permission and approval in which thread and what content i am allowed to post.

you Klingon troll you

[trogers]

i know many trying to sell and no buyers (at asking prices)

you may think your dwelling is worth X but try getting it

good luck all

If no buyers, then the asking price is too high. It's simple supply and demand. There will ALWAYS be buyers at some price. Sounds like another case of people paying too much to begin with.

If Tesco Lotus sold apples for 10,000 baht a kilo, they wouldn't get buyers either. It doesn't mean that people can't make money buying and selling apples. They just need to buy and sell at the right price. Most foreign property buyers in Thailand don't appear to have any idea about the property market. They just dive in and pay whatever the asking price is for the new condo they saw.

Similar mistake is made by locals as well, due to easy financing terms over decades. Price vs value and appropriate locations are secondary considerations - resulting in overpriced lemons that cannot get good rental yields, if they can be rented out at all.