Homeless foreigners in Thailand 'lack assistance'

[hawker9000]

Careful there lobster man. There might be some ambitious politician listening who'll actually take your idea seriously...

Oh, and dolly, until last year I'd never had a visa. I don't know what the percentages are, but LOTS of people are here on a visa exempt basis. That means in the country legally with NO visa - none. Which means no application or data (well, other than what's on your immigration card). It also means no fee or deposit OR evidence of financial responsibility. It usually ONLY means having to have a ticket out of the country before the 30d runs out though (although I'm not sure if just saying you're leaving via a land checkpoint will work or not).

Edited August 19, 2013 by hawker9000

[evadgib]

An alarming number of people that are successfully repatriated to their homeland manage to make their way back to LOS within 12-18 months without anyone's help.

[dudu]

maybe it is time that immigration asked for 400 - 800.000 baht deposit on "their" account, so you can swiftly be deported 1st class one way, when you run out of money ?

good idea for those homeless-ess to go sit in shopping malls, free airco

Maybe its time,they bring fairness into the equation, all money put in by the foreigner,the half should at least be given back,by law, plus taxi fare to the airport...

[nycjoe]

Thailand gets plenty of cash from tourism. This is the nether side. There should be a mechanism, to deal with them in a humane manner. I remember that mentally ill fellow who languished in prison and was in sad shape when he was found.

[Frankythai]

I know that beeing homeless in Thailand is not easy, it is difficult everywhere in the world but here it is worse.

But to think your embassy will do anything to help you? They won't, they don't care.

I know, I habe expirience with Dutch embassy, they just let you rot.

[nycjoe]

Thailand gets plenty of cash from tourism. This is the nether side. There should be a mechanism, to deal with them in a humane manner. I remember that mentally ill fellow who languished in prison and was in sad shape when he was found.

[hellodolly]

Considering I pay over £200 (10k baht) a month to Thailand in taxes, I would expect some kind of help if misfortune fell upon me and I was out on the streets.

The tax I pay here is nearly the same as what I'd pay in the UK, a much more expensive country. Yet I'm not sure what that entitles me to, looking at articles like this one.

Why would you expect that to make that kind of money you would qualify for welfare if it disappeared. Put aside enough to go home where they do have welfare.

Hell they don't really have a Social Security system here 500 or 600 baht a month for their own elderly. I would expect you to know that Thailand does not have a welfare system and you are not paying that much tax I paid over twice that in Canada. Yes they do have a welfare system but they collect a lot more tax money than here.

[delgarcon]

As I suffered. stroke, have had bought of mental problems, been ripped off in more than one country, due to my own stupidity or cleverness of the other, I have read your reviews of a part of any societies sad aspects and deplore and reject the insensitive and negative comments displayed here concerning the plight of a homeless or other person in need of any form of care. You naysayers...do you also wish us to treat you in the same manner when your turn comes ? Will we wash you down the sink as well, shall we judge and condemn you for any issues you have.

A person or animal in need is just that..in need.

And what happens to a Thai who's got no money? If he has a stroke he's allowed to rot in hospital on a 30 baht a day allowance and you think that you should be cared for? I agree that people should not be treated like animals, but foreigners who come here could help themselves by being adequately insured instead of believing that the world owes them a living! Stupidity is a good word, at least you're not brain dead!

[hellodolly]

"In some cases, these foreigners... often having being duped or robbed by Thai former wives or partners..."

...and of course the usual, emphatic reaction on TV is "som nam na", "what the f... do I care", "deport the idiots" etc.

Make your bed and you lay on it. BUT a vast amount of persons stupid or not fell into the love trap, and were ripped off by families. Much of this could be avoided if Thailand gives a little on plot of land - small area only to have in their name.

This is not for land grabbers and should be the only for an individual-1 plot only.

This way would give that little security most need. I'm convinced most of the problems stem from this problem, thrown out, no money left, no car etc.

After all Thailand cannot lose it will always have the land after the initial purchase should anything happen to them he cannot take it with him.

Of course there are a minority who are of the crazy type who come -blow the lot , on drugs/alcohol/sex, not a lot you can do about them only deport.

give a year visa person the little power to stop the biggest problem of stealing of houses, to put a curb on some of these evil families.

How can they get a yearly visa and not have enough money coming in to live on even if they were ripped off 10,000,000 baht. They still have an income.

[britgent]

Can we not start a humane way of allowing the guys to get back on their feet and regain their dignity.

I'm thinking something like a homeless Olympic games and points equal prizes.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6A using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simple1]

Especially in the case of these unfortunate souls who have spent their last savings on scooping up those cute, young bar girls, only to find that they are less loved and admired than that first, special night, I believe positive corrective action must be implemented. Perhaps, in addition to forced health insurance, it would be wise for the Thai government to insist on anti-stupidity insurance. Additionally, a 3 day course on how to outwit those pretty young things before you invest in prenuptial Sin Sod agreements, home purchases and automobile down payments. Bar fine and Short time Records should be posted and updated on the internet hourly. If these steps are implemented, Thailand will not only generate income on the anti-stupidity insurance, but will also save money on their efforts to get these unfortunate souls of the street.

The Thai government should insist that expats intending to stay in Thailand and require an O visa must attend a similar program as the Philippines, the Pre-Departure Registration and Orientation Seminars, prior to the O visa being issued

http://www.cfo.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1378%3Apre-departure-registration-and-orientation-seminars&catid=145%3Aintegration-and-reintegration&Itemid=833

[hellodolly]

So then all western countries should send all thai nationals back to Thailand, currently living in europe and who would be homeless if the social systems have not protecting them getting that! What one expect of a country who do not care about their poor or homeless? Deciding yourself lifing in Thailand must taken carefully because otherwise sometimes you go back only in a coffin before being robbed of all your assets!

thai nationals or thai immigrants? if they are legal immigrants, then they should be entitled to whatever social welfare systems that's already in place.

thailand (and almost all of asia) doesn't have a welfare system.

Also many of them are lured to come to these countries and then abandoned by the people who lured them and helped them qualify for the visa. The foreigners living on the streets of Thailand where lured by there own dreams and needed no help in securing a visa.

[lineofentry]

So these homeless destitutes aren't a burden on the Thai state and aren't being a burden on their home state and are actively involved in recycling. What's the problem?

[razorramone]

Considering I pay over £200 (10k baht) a month to Thailand in taxes, I would expect some kind of help if misfortune fell upon me and I was out on the streets.

The tax I pay here is nearly the same as what I'd pay in the UK, a much more expensive country. Yet I'm not sure what that entitles me to, looking at articles like this one.

Why would you expect that to make that kind of money you would qualify for welfare if it disappeared. Put aside enough to go home where they do have welfare.

Hell they don't really have a Social Security system here 500 or 600 baht a month for their own elderly. I would expect you to know that Thailand does not have a welfare system and you are not paying that much tax I paid over twice that in Canada. Yes they do have a welfare system but they collect a lot more tax money than here.

To be honest I haven't really looked at welfare in Thailand, I know in most countries the idea of tax is dressed up as social insurance - pay now so you get help when you have health/work/family/etc problems.

This is going a bit off topic but where does it go if Thailand doesn't have a big welfare budget?

I worked it out, I am taxed the same here as I would be in the UK (20%). I would expect that tax money to go a lot further here, considering everything is cheaper.

(just curious about this, of course I spend carefully and make sure I have emergency savings for when I need them)

Edited August 19, 2013 by razorramone

[NeverSure]

Homeless people is truly a world problem. Oh to spend a fraction of the International Defense budget on caring for them...

Back on topic foreign embassies have a responsibility to assist their nationals, especially those that are truly destitute and with mental health issues.

I would think it would also be in the Thai authorities to assist foreigners who are homeless- farangs sleeping on the streets is bad for business.

The Land of Smiles product...

I don't know about other countries, but the US has by far the biggest defense budget in the world and yet it spends far more on "entitlements" than it does on defense.

I know of no Western country which is not actually hurting in its national budget from "helping people."

If you need proof, scroll half way down THIS page to the budget pie chart.

[ginjag]

"In some cases, these foreigners... often having being duped or robbed by Thai former wives or partners..."

...and of course the usual, emphatic reaction on TV is "som nam na", "what the f... do I care", "deport the idiots" etc.

Make your bed and you lay on it. BUT a vast amount of persons stupid or not fell into the love trap, and were ripped off by families. Much of this could be avoided if Thailand gives a little on plot of land - small area only to have in their name.

This is not for land grabbers and should be the only for an individual-1 plot only.

This way would give that little security most need. I'm convinced most of the problems stem from this problem, thrown out, no money left, no car etc.

After all Thailand cannot lose it will always have the land after the initial purchase should anything happen to them he cannot take it with him.

Of course there are a minority who are of the crazy type who come -blow the lot , on drugs/alcohol/sex, not a lot you can do about them only deport.

give a year visa person the little power to stop the biggest problem of stealing of houses, to put a curb on some of these evil families.

How can they get a yearly visa and not have enough money coming in to live on even if they were ripped off 10,000,000 baht. They still have an income.

HD, I was referring to prevention better than cure----Giving a yearly visa one should expect a small area of land in farrang name. Thus preventing most of the cheating and misery that follows, at least the desperate have a home, even if they fall on hard times, through self inflicted or otherwise.

Most to my mind come with plenty of money but LOSE it and their home to Thai greed, the little morsel of land gives him a little security. If he cannot get the air fare to go home annually he can get his 0 visa from Laos. 90 days or double entry tourist 120 days, and thereafter 60 days.

[tonneke breda]

I once heard about the "American Dream", but the Thai version is different.

Many farangs take the step and get married with LL bar girls, open up a business and at the end get home-and penniless.

Sorry, but I do not feel any pity for them, you know most bar girls aren't very honest about all aspects in life, but still they jump into the adventure.

[phuketsub]

660 users on this topic at the moment: that must be some kind of record...the story has definitely touched more some nerves.

[useronthenet]

I have been in Thailand on and off for nearly 20 years now, and of course being a Third-world country it was quite abundantly obvious to me that there is not going to be a significant safety net in place in the event circumstances should change. Although, there is now a social security system for all those who work in particular pertaining to health. So it is to Thailand's credit that they have now adopted a partial system.

However it is fair to say that the very nature of these people is perhaps the reasons why most survive is due to the generosity of Thais. For example, you can walk into almost every house and be given food and water regardless of who you are. I felt very humbled that such people would be willing to accommodate a total stranger, I wonder how many people in Western society would do the same ?

I find many foreigners that come to Thailand especially long termers, still reluctant to interact with the local community, only able to utter a few words in Thai, though there are however a few exceptions, and indeed they are the ones that thrive and do well in Thai society.

Perhaps the government could support a mandatory induction course to those that intend to stay for a long time would serve them better, which would then advise foreigners the advantages and pitfalls of living and staying in such a culturally different country.

Of course, with a whole manner of information available at your finger-tips (courtesey of the internet), there is really no excuse at all why anyone these days would be oblivious of the downside of Thailand. After all, one can read almost everyday sad stories (mostly from foreigners) in books and other forms of paraphernalia written in precise detail about their experiences. So the responsibility clearly rests on your shoulders and no other, ignorance is not an excuse I'm afraid.

[sirchai]

In some cases, these foreigners - mostly male Westerners - arrived as tourists or retirees and fell into poverty or neglect after settling down in Thailand, often having being duped or robbed by Thai former wives or partners, Natee explained.

First by "foreign partners, then the Thai counterparts."

Sad, but true.-

Edited August 19, 2013 by sirchai

[Mystery]

so now no-one has any common sense anymore and needs to be babysat whilst on holiday here, needs their funds checking and personality checking to see if they CAN enter Thailand?! What a load of nonsense - screams of Nanny state England to me where no-one's trusted to make any decisions for themselves anymore.

People travel to Thailand, Thailand allows them in, as do many other countries - people are idiots and trust people (male or female) far too quickly, far quicker than they would in their home country - part with all their savings - really you'd do that in your home country? These people have to be expected to use their common sense, and yes whilst I'm not completely unsympathetic, as there be some clever game players here, you have to educate yourself on the place your visiting before you come here - that's your responsibility, not Thailand's responsibility to vet you before you enter the country - have you got enough common sense to avoid the scams type test... The Thai's get scammed by Thais themselves, it's not only a Western thing.

There are MILLIONS on Thai people that require help getting off the streets, much needier than the Westerner - I agree with most people on this forum - they should be cleaned up and sent home where there are the necessary services to sort themselves out - it's horrendous that some tourists do this regularily - and just keep coming back - had one recently at my husband's business, was a joke how much of a ride she was expecting from everyone just for her holiday - had no money - told her to just go home - instead she phoned home for more spending money from friends - went on for another two months until she finally ended up in Malaysia, phoned some of our customers crying and begging for help - they paid for a ticket back to UK for her - She deserves no sympathy, we all warned her, if you have no savings just GO HOME and come back another time you're NOT being responsible - but did she? NO!

Occasionally, VERY occasionally, there is a genuine case of bad bad luck, but even in that case, the best place is your HOME country where you have access to all necessary services to help you get back on your feet. And next time you travel BUY travel Insurance, DON'T bring all your money, use COMMON SENSE!

p.s. I'm not very well off at all, have even had times of Mama noodle a day budget in Thailand, but in TEN years I have always taken responsibility for myself, not been a burden to a system that even struggles (or wants) to help their own people - so why should I, not as a native, expect them to help me?! If I need help I go HOME! (Even though I don't really feel it's my home anymore, it's still where I'd have to go if the shit really hit the fan) Look at the state ENgland's got into by opening it's doors to everyone... Thailand's got the right idea, look after your own FIRST! And I'm quite happy being a guest here until I can get my Thai passport - if I don't like it - I know where the airport is!!!

[Nisa]

"In some cases, these foreigners... often having being duped or robbed by Thai former wives or partners..."

...and of course the usual, emphatic reaction on TV is "som nam na", "what the f... do I care", "deport the idiots" etc.

Make your bed and you lay on it. BUT a vast amount of persons stupid or not fell into the love trap, and were ripped off by families. Much of this could be avoided if Thailand gives a little on plot of land - small area only to have in their name.

This is not for land grabbers and should be the only for an individual-1 plot only.

This way would give that little security most need. I'm convinced most of the problems stem from this problem, thrown out, no money left, no car etc.

After all Thailand cannot lose it will always have the land after the initial purchase should anything happen to them he cannot take it with him.

Of course there are a minority who are of the crazy type who come -blow the lot , on drugs/alcohol/sex, not a lot you can do about them only deport.

give a year visa person the little power to stop the biggest problem of stealing of houses, to put a curb on some of these evil families.

Driving the price of land up (small or large plots) by allowing foreigners to buy land is certainly not in the interest of the average Thai. Just look at the condo prices compared to home prices. Not to mention these folks in the article blew all their money and possessions of value ... they would do the same with their land.

While it would be nice if nobody in the world was homeless or hungry, the vast majority of these folks mentioned in the article only have themselves to blame and they were not born in the deserts of Africa or even trapped in the slums of their home country. They are people who could afford to buy international flights to a top tourist destination and blew their money.

Blowing all your money on a business, stock market, investment, women, drugs or booze ... same same. It is sad but Thailand being forced to use their resources to deport them is more than fair and they should consider billing their home country who refused to help them.

Having Thailand take better care of these folks is just an invitation for more of them to come here and feel safe acting like a fool with their money.

[rufanuf]

I too am really disheartened at those on this forum that have no sympathy for the plight of some less fortunate than themselves, be it with money, or the braincells to make it or hold on to it. Hows this for a scenario. Come to Thailand, with a view to a better life, but be sensible and retain your house in the UK, being held in trust for you by a family member...they then steal that property from you in the UK and your left without a home in your name? In otherwords your left homeless except for your Thai home which we all know we can never fully own. Even sensible people can come unstuck, all it needs is for you to a few bad people around you, be they Thai or Farang....even your own flesh and blood can screw up your life!

[Nisa]

I once heard about the "American Dream", but the Thai version is different.

Many farangs take the step and get married with LL bar girls, open up a business and at the end get home-and penniless.

Sorry, but I do not feel any pity for them, you know most bar girls aren't very honest about all aspects in life, but still they jump into the adventure.

What is sad too is most of these guys probably got taken to the cleaners by their former wive(s) back home but somehow thought they'd have better luck with a prostitutes 1/2 their age in Thailand. Even sadder is these are often the guys who are constantly promoting how much more common sense they have than Thais.

[ginjag]

"In some cases, these foreigners... often having being duped or robbed by Thai former wives or partners..."

...and of course the usual, emphatic reaction on TV is "som nam na", "what the f... do I care", "deport the idiots" etc.

Make your bed and you lay on it. BUT a vast amount of persons stupid or not fell into the love trap, and were ripped off by families. Much of this could be avoided if Thailand gives a little on plot of land - small area only to have in their name.

This is not for land grabbers and should be the only for an individual-1 plot only.

This way would give that little security most need. I'm convinced most of the problems stem from this problem, thrown out, no money left, no car etc.

After all Thailand cannot lose it will always have the land after the initial purchase should anything happen to them he cannot take it with him.

Of course there are a minority who are of the crazy type who come -blow the lot , on drugs/alcohol/sex, not a lot you can do about them only deport.

give a year visa person the little power to stop the biggest problem of stealing of houses, to put a curb on some of these evil families.

Driving the price of land up (small or large plots) by allowing foreigners to buy land is certainly not in the interest of the average Thai. Just look at the condo prices compared to home prices. Not to mention these folks in the article blew all their money and possessions of value ... they would do the same with their land.

While it would be nice if nobody in the world was homeless or hungry, the vast majority of these folks mentioned in the article only have themselves to blame and they were not born in the deserts of Africa or even trapped in the slums of their home country. They are people who could afford to buy international flights to a top tourist destination and blew their money.

Blowing all your money on a business, stock market, investment, women, drugs or booze ... same same. It is sad but Thailand being forced to use their resources to deport them is more than fair and they should consider billing their home country who refused to help them.

Having Thailand take better care of these folks is just an invitation for more of them to come here and feel safe acting like a fool with their money.

Having Thailand taking care/picking up the pieces -NO WAY my initial suggestion of being able to buy a plot 900 Sq mt 30x30 would no way drive up the price of land, especially in rural areas.

This was cut out a percentage of those who gave all to lose it through partner/families. Pushing the loser to bad situations in some cases.

I agree in most cases the people are to blame for their actions, but most did NOT blow their own money, most were robbed by their partners, o.k. so it was up to them for taking a chance and trusting. The others are losers anyway.

Buying a plot is giving money to Thailand and will never be able to take it back to the home country. At the moment million of houses and condo's are empty, better Thai get revenue from the land office so whats the fear.

One more twist to this buying thing is if the farrang falls on hardtimes he has something to sell to get a flight back home.

Your last paragraph is spot on.

[DocN]

"...and an ad-hoc mechanism put in place in the meantime to deal with such cases, in order to provide immediate assistance..."

Maybe some of you should start learning to read!

It is mostly about immediate assistance!

Many of you act, as if these poor sods would be given a nice house and some staff to keep it clean, along with some large amount of cash...for free!

And by the way: there are many ways that than just being drunk and hanging around with "prostitutes half their age"!

Some of the coldhearted and simply stupid and hateful comments on here by some know-it-alls are truely a shame!

[Nisa]

I too am really disheartened at those on this forum that have no sympathy for the plight of some less fortunate than themselves, be it with money, or the braincells to make it or hold on to it. Hows this for a scenario. Come to Thailand, with a view to a better life, but be sensible and retain your house in the UK, being held in trust for you by a family member...they then steal that property from you in the UK and your left without a home in your name? In otherwords your left homeless except for your Thai home which we all know we can never fully own. Even sensible people can come unstuck, all it needs is for you to a few bad people around you, be they Thai or Farang....even your own flesh and blood can screw up your life!

I feel bad for these folks but there are so many others that are less fortunate and didn't put themselves into such a situation that are much more deserving of Thailand's financial resources but not getting them.

It isn't a lack of sympathy for them but it is more about not getting too worked up about a guy in the hospital who drank too much when there are kids in the other rooms dying of cancer.

[marell]

Huh? I don't think we all heard you.

[ginjag]

"...and an ad-hoc mechanism put in place in the meantime to deal with such cases, in order to provide immediate assistance..."

Maybe some of you should start learning to read!

It is mostly about immediate assistance!

Many of you act, as if these poor sods would be given a nice house and some staff to keep it clean, along with some large amount of cash...for free!

And by the way: there are many ways that than just being drunk and hanging around with "prostitutes half their age"!

Some of the coldhearted and simply stupid and hateful comments on here by some know-it-alls are truely a shame!

I suppose we could go on all day to find a solution. I my earlier post the first thing is prevention - a Per/cent are careful, others lose out to dubious partners for trusting. I would guess most of the homeless fall into the they have been done out of what they had.

The able to get a scratching of land in their name like the condo would stop much of the desperate.

How do the state tackle the situ when there are people like this, here forget them ??? or is it our embassy that should have them shipped back, and have to do some community work to pay back the air fare ??? and get re-hab ???

to my mind you cannot stop this unless a person has to have air fare here in some secure place(Thai) where he cannot get it for it to be used in emergency. Or he wishes to return home and requests it to be used for a ticket, failing that,

afraid it is up to temples and kind people to help with food NOT money for drink/drugs. NEVER give desperate beggars money to abuse give food and comfort

[tingtongfarang]

i help 2 in the late eighties only to the tune of £200 each then they shit on a few others after,one of them came to thailand after recieving £100,000 redundancy payment blew the lot then continued to beg.sorry i have no sympathy for them.

No sympathy for any of them because of two dodgy ones? That's harsh.

I'll go against the fold and say it is Thailand's responsibility to help. They are happy enough to let people in without a visa or showing any funds in the hope to make lots of revenue, which they have done for several decades. And these people have likely dropped a lot more into the system than their Thai brethren on the street have ever done.

Druggies and bad apples can go spit, but a lot of these chaps have just lost their way and/or had the shaft. But I agree they need to go home (airheads/dealers on the street first) where they'll likely receive help, though don't agree with this 'burden the Thai people' tripe. The day that happens... well, it never will.

Not sure if I am understanding you here. I have only been here 7 years but I have never met a foreigner yet who got in here with out a visa, I have met plenty of over stayers. Are you saying that they deliberately break the law and Thailand should take responsibility for them.

As for the ones who have been ripped off by Thai women They obviously had money and a system of money coming in to get the visa's. Why not make them use that money. If they do not how did they get a visa. If through fraudulent measures why should Thailand take care of them. I am an ex pat retiree and I need a certain amount of income to maintain my retirement visa. If I don't have it off I go back home. Why should these homeless people be granted help to stay here. You don;t really need that much money to stay here. Look at a lot of the English teachers they are making in between 20,000 and 30,000 baht a month. 15,000 baht a month is a good wage for a Thai. How can a foreigner not afford to live here. that is presuming he or she has a source of income. Most of the people who get ripped off still have a source of income.

For the most part the ones on the street are drug addicts of one sort or another. They should be sent back to their home country where there is a bettter chance of getting help for them.

The exception are the ones who have the money but have lost the mental capacity. These people I definatly feel Thailand should help. They are not intentionally trying to rip Thailand off.

One of the biggest problems here in Thailand is not the country it is the Embassies off other countries who will not help there own citizens out.

One time in conversation with a farang i asked what kind of visa he was on, he first answered oh i have a special kind of visa, at a later date he explained ..i been here before and got involved in this visa shit..did,nt want to do that again,

Seems he found a way out of the airport without passing immigration and entered without any kind of stamp, his passport had expired a couple of years previous

That was his position since some years, he was working as an english teacher and by accounts from others very good at it and well liked.