Chaos in Thai Parliament after Democrat evicted

[travelman]

Big well fed Babies fighting among-st each other.

[AleG]

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

You are very wrong, rubber exports are almost twice the value of rice.

The export value of natural rubber between 2010 and 2013 averaged $9.3 billion a year, compared with Thai rice at an average export value of $5.3 billion a year, statistics show.

I suppose now you'll change your stance, no?

I was anticipating your response and I confess, I was setting up the person who was going to respond.

(rest of the post snipped)

AKA trolling?

The protestors are mostly from Surat Thani and whether they are happy or not, is not a major concern. If a few of them go out of business, it will be good for the Thai industry in general as demand for Thai rubber from one of its largest markets, China, has shrunk over the past year. A glut of rubber on the market will keep export prices low. Rather than subsidize, the goal should be to retire some of the plantations, particularly those that have encroached on the protected land areas.

Then you must be in favour of stopping the rice subsidies, because all your arguments against subsidizing rubber apply much more poignantly against subsidizing rice.

[Nickymaster]

Such a bunch of cowards those PT guys. Especially the "neutral" house speaker. Everybody supporting PTs action is supporting the creation of a police state. Only crooked minded people will support such action.

Yeah come on Thaksin, show them who is boss. Your eternal friend Hun Sen will be proud of you.

Does anybody know when house speaker Somsak is going to England again with a whole delegation to watch a soccer match paid for by the tax payers?

[gemini81]

I always wondered what it would be like if you had police in a parliament to enforce a dictatorship.

[geriatrickid]

Then you must be in favour of stopping the rice subsidies, because all your arguments against subsidizing rubber apply much more poignantly against subsidizing rice.

I do not believe in agricultural subsidies. On a policy basis, that means that I would not support the rice pledging scheme.

However, the compelling case for support of the rice farmers is that the subsidies help more people who are farming at a subsistence level than is the case with rubber tree growers. I understand why the government has tried to help the poorest of the poor farmers in Thailand. The rubber farmers have historically been better off and have reaped significant profits when the export market was booming in China. The government has already offered 20billion baht to the rubber sector, albeit much of it will go to the value added sector. The rice growers do not have much of a value added component to their production chain.

I don't consider it trolling when people blinded by hatred are hoisted by their own petards.

Edited September 5, 2013 by geriatrickid

[Nickymaster]

The rubber problem in the South is genuine, and the government thus far has all but ignored it. This MP was right to demand action. The irony is, by being tossed out of parliament, the speaker has thrown a spotlight on the issue they were all trying to avoid.

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

You are very wrong, rubber exports are almost twice the value of rice.

The export value of natural rubber between 2010 and 2013 averaged $9.3 billion a year, compared with Thai rice at an average export value of $5.3 billion a year, statistics show.

I suppose now you'll change your stance, no?

I was anticipating your response and I confess, I was setting up the person who was going to respond.

Yes, I am aware of the importance of Surat Thani as the largest of all of the rubber producing regions. However, the second largest region and almost as large as Surat Thani is Songkhla. It is also where much of the rubber processing factories are located. How come it is relatively quiet in Songkhla?

Do you think it is because the the locals are not easily manipulated by the Democrats? Or do you think the Thai government support of 15 billion baht to help rubber businesses upgrade their machinery is going help the Songkhla region and thus has earned the support of the Songkhla producers and processors? The additional 5 billion baht to help rice farmers invest in rubber processing is certainly of interest to the other rubber producers.

The protestors are mostly from Surat Thani and whether they are happy or not, is not a major concern. If a few of them go out of business, it will be good for the Thai industry in general as demand for Thai rubber from one of its largest markets, China, has shrunk over the past year. A glut of rubber on the market will keep export prices low. Rather than subsidize, the goal should be to retire some of the plantations, particularly those that have encroached on the protected land areas.

If a few of them go out of business, it will be good for the Thai industry in general as demand for Thai rubber from one of its largest markets, China, has shrunk over the past year.

Your philosophy also applies to the rice farmers I guess.

Don't you think it is better to let 50% (or whatever the market decides) of the rice farmers go out of business instead of pumping 200 billion a year into the scheme. Let the market decide the price and if you are too expensive you should go bust. Effectively the government is destroying the rice producing sector by making the rice farmers lazy. Those rice farmers can never become efficient anymore. Supply from other countries will keep on increasing and will be offered at a lower price..

Edited September 5, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Tywais]

I came into the living room this morning and my wife pointed out the news cast of this. Her words 'same as a bunch of kids' and an embarrassment.

[ridkun]

The rubber problem in the South is genuine, and the government thus far has all but ignored it. This MP was right to demand action. The irony is, by being tossed out of parliament, the speaker has thrown a spotlight on the issue they were all trying to avoid.

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

If one supports the rice scheme how can they not support the rubber scheme mainly because they are not Big Ts friends and supporters. The people who need the rice support are left out in the cold as the lions share of support goes to rich farmers, millers and a few selected traders.

I agree. Democrats do not support rice pledging scheme in the way this government are doing, but in terms of fairness the rubber farmers should get the same support as long as rice pledging scheme is still running.

[bander]

Doesn't look like it will be long before every opposition MP will have an individual police officer, or two, as a permanent fixture behind where they sit to keep an eye on them. alt=ohmy.png width=20 height=20>

If it isn't obvious by now which direction this country is headed.

Yingluck is the head of police now, that means she decide who can say what in the parliament, welcome to democracy

[AleG]

I do not believe in agricultural subsidies. On a policy basis, that means that I would not support the rice pledging scheme.

However, the compelling case for support of the rice farmers is that the subsidies help more people who are farming at a subsistence level than is the case with rubber tree growers. I understand why the government has tried to help the poorest of the poor farmers in Thailand. The rubber farmers have historically been better off and have reaped significant profits when the export market was booming in China. The government has already offered 20billion baht to the rubber sector, albeit much of it will go to the value added sector. The rice growers do not have much of a value added component to their production chain.

I don't consider it trolling when people blinded by hatred are hoisted by their own petards.

heh, hoisted by their own petards?, as in one post decrying that Democrat MPs can't stick to the debate rules in parliament and in the next unwittingly admitting to trolling in the forum?

[Katipo]

The rubber problem in the South is genuine, and the government thus far has all but ignored it. This MP was right to demand action. The irony is, by being tossed out of parliament, the speaker has thrown a spotlight on the issue they were all trying to avoid.

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

Subsidies should only ever be a short term solution, and in a healthy competitive market they can be. Thailand’s economy is neither healthy nor competitive, at least for those at the bottom of the food chain.

The subsidies can be considered a way for those in power to buy on a continual basis. They are not a way to pull the farmers up and make them better off in the long term. Doing this would only make them more independent and less likely to follow the wishes of those who seek to manipulate them.

In summary, subsidies are not a solution, just another tool used by those in power to perpetuate that power. Anyone who thinks that the rich and powerful of this country actually care about the less fortunate are deluding themselves.

[bander]

Doesn't look like it will be long before every opposition MP will have an individual police officer, or two, as a permanent fixture behind where they sit to keep an eye on them. alt=ohmy.png width=20 height=20>

If it isn't obvious by now which direction this country is headed.

It's heading towards Parliament simply being closed down, like the Philippines Congress was, as the facade of democracy begins to become too troublesome.

Agree, if not the Shinawatra regime stand down, Thailand might see the same scenario that happened in The Philippines 1986

[Bagwan]

I just knew that having Blair here spouting out a load of rubbish about reconciliation would lead to no good. Everything that he touches turns to crap.

Please God that Yingluck's next planned oeuvre is not to ask Gordon Bennett Brown here to talk about fiscal responsibility. Bankruptcy would surely follow.

[johnnie20110]

The rubber problem in the South is genuine, and the government thus far has all but ignored it. This MP was right to demand action. The irony is, by being tossed out of parliament, the speaker has thrown a spotlight on the issue they were all trying to avoid.

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

You are very wrong, rubber exports are almost twice the value of rice.

The export value of natural rubber between 2010 and 2013 averaged $9.3 billion a year, compared with Thai rice at an average export value of $5.3 billion a year, statistics show.

I suppose now you'll change your stance, no?

Thank you for correcting what one poster ironically refers to as

another falsehood

[johnnie20110]

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

You are very wrong, rubber exports are almost twice the value of rice.

The export value of natural rubber between 2010 and 2013 averaged $9.3 billion a year, compared with Thai rice at an average export value of $5.3 billion a year, statistics show.

I suppose now you'll change your stance, no?

I was anticipating your response and I confess, I was setting up the person who was going to

AKA trolling?

yep

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[geriatrickid]

AKA trolling?

yep

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not trolling if one allows someone blinded with hatred and animosity to defeat his own arguments.

Appreciably, the anti democracy/anti PM Yingluck movement are out in force on this thread. Oki dokie.

However, all you folks have left now are desperate measures and an attempt to toss as much sh*t to see if it sticks. Like the Democrat Party led by the lacklustre milquetoast Abhisit, all you have left are desperate moves like physically assaulting the House Speaker, or civil servants etc.

It's all coming undone for the Democrats and the rubber farmer protests in Surat Thani, and the House antics, are an indication that those who support coups and the suppression of democracy in Thailand are in panic mode.

[skyaslimit]

Bravo, keep this chaos in the parliament , don't let it spell on the streets of Bangkok.

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

[johnnie20110]

I was anticipating your response and I confess, I was setting up the person who was going to

AKA trolling?

yep

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not trolling if one allows someone blinded with hatred and animosity to defeat his own arguments.

As wikipedia encourages people to expand on their explanations, perhaps you could submit an addendum to wikipedia's textbook definition of your classical trolling and call it the:

geriatrickid exclusion

Edited September 5, 2013 by johnnie20110

[Calimotty]

I don't recall that the Dems, when leading the last coalition-government, ever tried to eject opposition-MPs from Parliament by force like this ?

Yay for New-Improved Red-Democracy & Reconciliation !

There was no such thing as parliamentary police under the last government .. its newly formed by the DSI... before, all they had were a few security guards.. Yinluck brought them in...

Nice attempt to smear the government and another falsehood.

When Abhisit was PM, he relied on Police Division I to provide much of the security for the House. He also relied heavily on the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations (CRES). Abhisit's Democrats relied on a far greater police presence than the current government. More importantly, when the current government was in opposition, its MPs did not try to physically assault the House Speaker or other MPs with the frequency that the Democrat MPs have.

Cheers Geriatrickid,

At last some factual comment on this subject.

[Phronesis]

With regard to farm subsidies I think it prudent to quote P.J. O'Rourke:

"When somebody's muffler shop goes bankrupt, the government

doesn't pay him $100,000 to not install mufflers."

[ridkun]

AKA trolling?

yep

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not trolling if one allows someone blinded with hatred and animosity to defeat his own arguments.

Appreciably, the anti democracy/anti PM Yingluck movement are out in force on this thread. Oki dokie.

However, all you folks have left now are desperate measures and an attempt to toss as much sh*t to see if it sticks. Like the Democrat Party led by the lacklustre milquetoast Abhisit, all you have left are desperate moves like physically assaulting the House Speaker, or civil servants etc.

It's all coming undone for the Democrats and the rubber farmer protests in Surat Thani, and the House antics, are an indication that those who support coups and the suppression of democracy in Thailand are in panic mode.

I'm sorry but I failed to see any logic in your argument. It seems that pro-democracy red shirt MPs are having nice time in the parliament with ex coup leader Sonthi. Sounds ironic? Physically assaulting also did not happen this time, he just insisted that PM must answer the question and refused the order to sit down and shut up, so why you went off-topic like that?

[Emptyset]

I don't recall that the Dems, when leading the last coalition-government, ever tried to eject opposition-MPs from Parliament by force like this ?

Yay for New-Improved Red-Democracy & Reconciliation !

That's probably because PT generally just walked out when they didn't get what they wanted from the speaker: http://asiancorrespondent.com/112214/democrat-party-antics-in-thai-parliament-part-2/

Anyway, this seems over the top to me. Maybe that's because I think the rubber protests are something the parliament should be debating. But if someone continually disrupted the UK parliament they'd be ordered to leave - it's just unlikely force would be necessary to remove them...

[tingtongteesood]

The imperious Taksin forces will crush the rebellion and turn Thailand into a dark and bleak place, the journey to the dark side continues !

[lee b]

So what did he do wrong? Hes an MP right??

[Baerboxer]

Doesn't look like it will be long before every opposition MP will have an individual police officer, or two, as a permanent fixture behind where they sit to keep an eye on them.

If it isn't obvious by now which direction this country is headed.

The route where democracy is maintained and that political bullies cannot threaten or intimidate the House?

Do you have a problem with the rules of Thai parliamentary procedure being respected?

No. I respect the rules of democracy. In a democratic parliament the speaker has to keep order. Good speakers do this by force of personality and occasionally, have to suspend members and ask them to leave if they will not come to order.

However, there is a difference between this and creating another para-military police force to forcibly eject anyone who says anything the incumbent government doesn't like.

Faced with a repressive government that does not tolerate critical discussion and debate, or allow its leader to be questioned and challenged. and an incompetent and seemingly somewhat biased speaker how would you behave? Always politely follow the rules?

History has shown many times the folly of trying to reason with the unreasonable.

[Baerboxer]

The rubber problem in the South is genuine, and the government thus far has all but ignored it. This MP was right to demand action. The irony is, by being tossed out of parliament, the speaker has thrown a spotlight on the issue they were all trying to avoid.

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

You are very wrong, rubber exports are almost twice the value of rice.

The export value of natural rubber between 2010 and 2013 averaged $9.3 billion a year, compared with Thai rice at an average export value of $5.3 billion a year, statistics show.

I suppose now you'll change your stance, no?

Sadly AleG, he won't change. GK is like all the red PTP supporters - he doesn't let the facts get in the way, never says sorry when he's wrong, will simply ignore any facts that don't support his propaganda and is still trying to convince us who the real PM is.

Little hope of any change.

[gemini81]

Then you must be in favour of stopping the rice subsidies, because all your arguments against subsidizing rubber apply much more poignantly against subsidizing rice.

I do not believe in agricultural subsidies. On a policy basis, that means that I would not support the rice pledging scheme.

However, the compelling case for support of the rice farmers is that the subsidies help more people who are farming at a subsistence level than is the case with rubber tree growers. I understand why the government has tried to help the poorest of the poor farmers in Thailand. The rubber farmers have historically been better off and have reaped significant profits when the export market was booming in China. The government has already offered 20billion baht to the rubber sector, albeit much of it will go to the value added sector. The rice growers do not have much of a value added component to their production chain.

I don't consider it trolling when people blinded by hatred are hoisted by their own petards.

The above post by 'GK' is hands down the best example of trolling and a keyboard warrior I have ever seen.

Other terms like instant expert/armchair expert come to mind.

In person, he would never talk to others like that.

Edited September 6, 2013 by gemini81

[Mosha]

The rubber problem in the South is genuine, and the government thus far has all but ignored it. This MP was right to demand action. The irony is, by being tossed out of parliament, the speaker has thrown a spotlight on the issue they were all trying to avoid.

What is genuine is that the Democrats have incited and supported the southern rubber protestors.

I find it odd that the very same people who have criticized the government's rice pledging scheme, want the government to offer subsidies to rubber farmers on a basis that exceeds the subsidy rate per rice farmer. The Southern rubber growers are not a vital component of the Thai export economy as are Thai rice growers. If one disapproves of the rice pledging scheme, how can one then support the demands for a handout to the rubber growers?

Exporting rice? Oh you mean at the duty free shops.

[Emptyset]

Video of Suthep's brother Chen Thaugsuban throwing chairs in parliament yesterday:

Pretty funny.

[Gonzo the Face]

20 v 1, yup, This is Thailand

Someone, somewhere will be sitting watching this and polishing the tanks. If parliament fractures to this extent it will be 2006 revisited. You would have thought Taksin would have learned something from that.

Haven't you learned by now as long as you have been in Thailand......... Thaksin knows all so he can't learn, he now solely teaches.