Forethat Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. Get a grip man, if the sex was provided with consent then it aint rape, as for not paying after the consentual event, if you'd have said it's on par with shoplifting I'd have left your post alone... Actually, in most countries an agreement cannot be made if the agreement itself stipulates that either party breaks the law. It is not shoplifting neither are you violating a contractual agreement, therefore it is not a case of civil wrong. Tricky, to say the least. Edited September 12, 2013 by Forethat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. Are you for real, so the guy go's with a girl for sex and doesn't pay her then you say "it is certainly rape" Get a grip man, if the sex was provided with consent then it aint rape, as for not paying after the consentual event, if you'd have said it's on par with shoplifting I'd have left your post alone... Read learn and understand the definition of rape. Sorry MB1 you have this wrong.......I've seen the whole abstract of this but I can't find it again, here's the shortened version...... http://www.thailandlaw.org/rape-laws-in-thailand.html or by taking advantage of her being in a condition where there is less resistance, So you agree to pay a bar girl, she agrees to consensual sex, you don't pay her and????............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren McKenzie Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 So far on this thread we've had two worthless comments and two personal attacks. I'd be more impressed if you could bring a single figure or coherent argument to the table. Drop the hypocrisy. Drop too the sad desire to fit in and be "liked". In your own words: "just about every BG will be able to recount a story of where they had to flee a room as they were being brutalized". So where are the stats? Where are the figures? Have you met every BG in Thailand? If so, has "just about every BG" in Thailand told you that she had to "flee a room" before "being brutalized"? If you want to be taken seriously, try presenting yourself as someone worth taking seriously. As you say: " I'd be more impressed if you could bring a single figure .... to the table." So where are your own figures? You don't have any, do you? You're just trolling as usual. Hmmmmm, have you had a bad day. You bought a Nissan or something like that. ............................. Yep. You're right and I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. Get a grip man, if the sex was provided with consent then it aint rape, as for not paying after the consentual event, if you'd have said it's on par with shoplifting I'd have left your post alone... Actually, in most countries an agreement cannot be made if the agreement itself stipulates that either party breaks the law. It is not shoplifting neither are you violating a contractual agreement, therefore it is not a case of civil wrong. Tricky, to say the least. Tricky yes, so lets try and say "Taking a Pecuniary Advantage" which = a financial advantage that is dishonestly obtained by deception... Those who say refusing to pay = rape are IMO barking way up the wrong tree and are so misguided or just trolling... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rct99q Posted September 12, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted September 12, 2013 Perhaps knowing the laws of Thailand would help (in regards to "paying" for sex). My original comment in regards to women working in this area comes from several said women 8+ so I realize it is a very small sample group but their comments and discussions with them over the period of four years gives me a little more insight into gheir daily lives as prostitutes. Their stories are at times very funny, heart wrenching and nauseating. The one arse who responded with the I bought her I can do what I want attitude ....... is what scares me most. For me the second consent (and paying money does not equal consent it is a criminal offence) is withdrawn and the person does not stop his/her actions it is rape. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct99q Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 We have several neighbors who work in the adult entertainment zones as bar girls and it is very common among the punters who use bar girls. Although they do not classify it as "rape" as they are "purchasing" a product the acts committed on some of these girls would get the "johns" arrested in the majority of the Western countries.....the locals are far worse though. Utter shit. If consent is given then it is not rape. Please desist from posting such nonsense. Single? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 2007 Law that covers Marital Rape and Homosexual Rape. http://www.wunrn.com/news/2007/07_07/07_23_07/073007_thailand.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Perhaps knowing the laws of Thailand would help (in regards to "paying" for sex). My original comment in regards to women working in this area comes from several said women 8+ so I realize it is a very small sample group but their comments and discussions with them over the period of four years gives me a little more insight into gheir daily lives as prostitutes. Their stories are at times very funny, heart wrenching and nauseating. The one arse who responded with the I bought her I can do what I want attitude ....... is what scares me most. For me the second consent (and paying money does not equal consent it is a criminal offence) is withdrawn and the person does not stop his/her actions it is rape. Prostitution Law Thailand http://ilo-phuket.com/legal-documents/prostitution.html I'm going for a walk, subjects like this depress me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. Are you for real, so the guy go's with a girl for sex and doesn't pay her then you say "it is certainly rape" Get a grip man, if the sex was provided with consent then it aint rape, as for not paying after the consentual event, if you'd have said it's on par with shoplifting I'd have left your post alone... Read learn and understand the definition of rape. Sorry MB1 you have this wrong.......I've seen the whole abstract of this but I can't find it again, here's the shortened version...... http://www.thailandlaw.org/rape-laws-in-thailand.html or by taking advantage of her being in a condition where there is less resistance, So you agree to pay a bar girl, she agrees to consensual sex, you don't pay her and????............. So you agree to pay a bar girl, she agrees to consensual sex, you don't pay her and????.... And therein lies the difference between the Western mindset and the Thai mindset. How many on here remember the following story, http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?13240-Karaoke-singer-accuses-a-policeman-of-chopping-her-arm Sorry I cant provide links, I remember reading it in the Thai Rath (no comments please) and the Thai attitude was one of, she is a prostitute, som nam na. Sorry to be blunt, but those (of you) who ride into Soi Cowboy or elsewhere with their western mindset are on the wrong frequency to the normal Thai mindset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. Are you for real, so the guy go's with a girl for sex and doesn't pay her then you say "it is certainly rape" Get a grip man, if the sex was provided with consent then it aint rape, as for not paying after the consentual event, if you'd have said it's on par with shoplifting I'd have left your post alone... Read learn and understand the definition of rape. Sorry MB1 you have this wrong.......I've seen the whole abstract of this but I can't find it again, here's the shortened version...... http://www.thailandlaw.org/rape-laws-in-thailand.html or by taking advantage of her being in a condition where there is less resistance, So you agree to pay a bar girl, she agrees to consensual sex, you don't pay her and????............. It's NOT RAPE, it was consensual....See where I wrote " Pecuniary Advantage" And whilst we are at it, try and give me one instance factual where a man was convicted of RAPE for refusing to pay a woman after having consensual sex in Thailand.????.... Edited September 12, 2013 by MB1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. What if she enjoyed the sex and the guy don't pay. Would that also be rape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) So you agree to pay a bar girl, she agrees to consensual sex, you don't pay her and????............. @Blether... I just wonder if it were to be the case that refusing to pay a woman after having consensual sex in Thailand and then refusing to pay the woman after the event were to become Thai law and be classed as RAPE, how many men do you think could be accused/ convicted after a woman cried rape because she wasn't happy with what a customer paid her, example, they agreed on 1000 baht and after the event she wants 3000 baht and the guy refuses to pay the 3000.... Anyway I still say it's a load of tosh saying refusing to pay a woman after consensual sex = RAPE... or by taking advantage of her being in a condition where there is less resistance, That could mean taking advantage whilst under the influence of drink or drugs, it could mean a whole lot of things, but I don't think it mean that refusing to pay after consensual sex = RAPE You can make your own definitions up as much as you like, so keep trying... Edited September 12, 2013 by MB1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. What if she enjoyed the sex and the guy don't pay. Would that also be rape? If she enjoyed the sex, and agreed to wave payment, it would not be rape. If a woman were walking down the street and a stranger grabbed her, forced her into the back of a van and banged her. If the victim has an orgasm, would it till be rape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forethat Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. What if she enjoyed the sex and the guy don't pay. Would that also be rape? You telling me there's is a chance that I can claim she raped ME in case the sex is that good...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If it were to become Thai law then you pay in advance and get a receipt. I think most girls take advance payment anywaylaw or no law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. What if she enjoyed the sex and the guy don't pay. Would that also be rape? You telling me there's is a chance that I can claim she raped ME in case the sex is that good...? LOL. If she don't stop after the third round you probably wished you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 So you agree to pay a bar girl, she agrees to consensual sex, you don't pay her and????............. @Blether... I just wonder if it were to be the case that refusing to pay a woman after having consensual sex in Thailand and then refusing to pay the woman after the event were to become Thai law and be classed as RAPE, how many men do you think could be accused/ convicted after a woman cried rape because she wasn't happy with what a customer paid her, example, they agreed on 1000 baht and after the event she wants 3000 baht and the guy refuses to pay the 3000.... Anyway I still say it's a load of tosh saying refusing to pay a woman after consensual sex = RAPE... Even now, if a BG is unhappy with the amount of the payment after the dirty deed is done, there is nothing stopping her from claiming there was no agreement at all, and that the trick raped her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forethat Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. What if she enjoyed the sex and the guy don't pay. Would that also be rape? You telling me there's is a chance that I can claim she raped ME in case the sex is that good...? LOL. If she don't stop after the third round you probably wished you could. In terms of the agreement in which there's a paying party, the other one would very much come across as a freeloader. Am I right or am I right? "you cum and I'll freakin' charge you for the convenience"....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorramone Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. Are you for real, so the guy go's with a girl for sex and doesn't pay her then you say "it is certainly rape" Get a grip man, if the sex was provided with consent then it aint rape, as for not paying after the consentual event, if you'd have said it's on par with shoplifting I'd have left your post alone... Read learn and understand the definition of rape. Misleading a woman for sex counts as rape. That is why (in western countries), men can be convicted if they say "yes I have a condom on", and then it turns out they didn't. Agreeing to pay and then not paying is no different. Rape is sex against the other person's will. The what if she liked it, what if she changed her mind, what if we were married, that shit doesn't matter. Edited September 12, 2013 by razorramone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. Are you for real, so the guy go's with a girl for sex and doesn't pay her then you say "it is certainly rape" Get a grip man, if the sex was provided with consent then it aint rape, as for not paying after the consentual event, if you'd have said it's on par with shoplifting I'd have left your post alone... Read learn and understand the definition of rape. Misleading a woman for sex counts as rape. That is why (in western countries), men can be convicted if they say "yes I have a condom on", and then it turns out they didn't. Agreeing to pay and then not paying is no different. Rape is sex against the other person's will. The what if she liked it, what if she changed her mind, what if we were married, that shit doesn't matter. Agreeing to pay and then not paying is no different. So provide a link to this, or is it just your opinion.???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If a BG agrees to provide sex for money, and the trick pays the money and and has sex with the BG, after which the trick beats the BG, it would still be a crime, but the sex was consensual, so shouldn't it then be more like assault? Now if the trick refused to pay the the BG for providing the sex, them it is certainly rape, and the beating should have nothing to do with it. What if she enjoyed the sex and the guy don't pay. Would that also be rape? If she enjoyed the sex, and agreed to wave payment, it would not be rape. If a woman were walking down the street and a stranger grabbed her, forced her into the back of a van and banged her. If the victim has an orgasm, would it till be rape? Yes that would be rape because the victim did not consent to have sex. In the case of the bg and customer she did consent to have sex, she had sex and after the fact get a disagreement about the price which is slightly different. She's not a victim of forced sex but more a victim of somebody stealing her income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake24 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I am sure rape in countries like india are way higher. I think malaysia has a higher rape count. Actually since thailand is the most popular destination in south east asia and attracts all sorts of ppl worldwide i can say rapes that occur in thailand might have been committed by foreigners some on the locals, some on other foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Have you ever had sex with your partner when you knew she didn't want to but you thought she should agree because she's your wife/ partner? This is the new definition of rape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooo Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Off topic nonsensical posts removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Here's a thought for those saying that not paying a woman for consensual sex = RAPE. So if it is rape, then what about a man who sleeps with a woman knowings she's rich and says that he's sleeping with her because he really likes her, but is only sleeping with her because he's a gold digger and expecting some kind of financial reward. What about a man who sleeps with a woman after telling her he's single but in reality is married. What about a policeman. going undercover for periods of time and sleeping with women who think he's a tree hugger or some other kind of activist when it's a ploy to infiltrate a political group I'd say it's some kind of fraud, taking a pecuniary advantage but not rape IMO if it's consensual sex taking place even though some kind of fraud, lying has taken place. RAPE is a very touchy subject and for those who do rape they deserve to pay for their crime but I'm not going to label someone a rapist for frauduently having consensual sex with a woman and demean the meaning of rape... What are we going to do with Ladyboys who perform oral sex on a man and the man thinks it's a woman performing the act and then finds out it's a Ladyboy, what are we going to do with women who say their using contraception to get a man to have sex with them when he says he has no condom with him and she then gets pregnant. People all over the world lie to have sex with women, same as women lie to men.... Lifes messy hey... Edited September 12, 2013 by MB1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GuestHouse Posted September 13, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) I've posted this before so I'll short form it for this discussion. I have personal experience of helping a young Thai female engineer who was working for me file a complaint against a Thai male colleague who had seriously sexually assaulted her. I understood from the start and I cautioned her that there would be a backlash and I asked her to agree that if she pressed the case she would not reveal who was advising her. She filed her report and very very swiftly the full face saving Thai denial machine swung into action, a procedure which ought to have been dealt with by a very small specialist group very quickly had to full weight of people from all directions trying to protect the perpetrator and place the blame on his victim. But the wording and the circulation of the complaint had been very specific and was, as was clear, going to be taken over by people further up the ladder. The case was proven and swiftly a catalogue of his previous attacks became known. The victim received an apology from the people who should have helped her but attacked her - the apology was followed by the comment and question - 'You managed this very well, who helped you?'. They never got an answer, but it was the answer we all know to be true. In this society the victim of a rape or serious sexual attack is only going to get justice if they are able to bring out bigger guns than their attacker. Rape is a crime that is under reported the world over, be assured it is under reported in Thailand. Edited September 13, 2013 by GuestHouse 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GuestHouse Posted September 13, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2013 From a second hand experience. I have Thai female friend who works with the police assisting in sexual crime cases. It would be instructive to have her report her experiences here first hand. But what I understand from her, is that rape and sexual assault is widespread in employment organisations, be that private companies, schools and colleges, the civil service, military and the police force. Specifically within the civil service, it is an unwritten rule that senior male staff have first pick of young women entering the service. This is not to say they have the right to rape them, not at all, but the pretty young new entrants are passed up and around the organisation - because the boss wants to be surrounded by pretty girls. You can see this whenever in a restaurant and there's a table of government employees - take a look where the boss is sitting and who is sitting next to him. Female youth and beauty is a commodity in Thailand in a way that is not a commodity back home - guys here paying to buy this here in Thailand already know this to be true. Its right out of the top draw of the theories why sex crimes happen. The set up is not that it is acceptable to rape women. Rather the set up is to place women in a position of little or no power and back that up with a system which will always protect the person further up the pecking order. The women who do suffer sexual crimes in Thailand have a very hard up hill fight to get justice that might cost them their job, the social network around their job ( a huge issue for Thais) and will very likely fail. Rapes in Thailand are under reported, the prosecution rate is low and they are therefore committed with impunity. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Commander Tamson Posted September 13, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2013 I get the impression from a lot of the posts on this thread that many of our dear TV members are no better than the Indian trash where more than 50% admit to rape! If a woman says NO, no matter what the relationship is, be it wife, prostitute or employee, or even half way through the foreplay, then to carry on is RAPE! There may of course be difficulties in proving such under various country's laws, but it is does not alter that basic fact! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theblether Posted September 13, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2013 A lady I know well reported that she was effectively instructed by her boss at a high profile hotel that she would be expected to provide sexual services if she expected to retain her job. She demurred. The boss then came back in with a second offer of a trip to Hong Kong and Mia Noi status. She said let me speak to my Mum. Her Dad showed up a day later and removed her from the hotel. She was lucky, her family were well to do. She continually states the point that far too many women, including friends of hers, had to give in. They couldn't afford to lose their jobs. ................................................................................................................. Following up from CT's post. I posted an abridged version of Thai Rape Law earlier. I identified a clause that is aimed at coercion. For some reason member(s) seems to think that I have to go on to prove case studies of where the clause was actually used to gain a conviction. I don't. All I have to do is what I did and that's to point a clause that is wide ranging and could be used against people. What would you prefer? To know? or not know? This Is Thailand, you will get away with everything until you don't get away with it any more. One of the greatest pieces of advice I was given here was do not ever leave yourself vulnerable. Ever. There's no point attacking me, it's not my law. However as usual on Thaivisa a serious subject has degenerated into a series of willful personal attacks. It's pathetic. No wonder people are reluctant to post on the forum. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradavarius37 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 This thread will have 8 pages of answers in the next 5 hours....Not correct. The self fulfilling prophesy speaks lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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