Lots of Diabetes in Thailand?

[Sceptict11]

It's not necessaily sugar, it's refined carbohydrates such as bread, cakes, burgers, pizza's, ready meals. fast foods, sandwiches, soft drinks such as sweetened green tea, cola's - difficult to know where to stop! Part of the problem is the adoption of western foods, another part part is reduced amount of exercise, a massive problem here in the making.

But the problem can be solved through a healthy diet and exercise, boring I know but it's your choice, eat healthily or die young.

Type II diabetic for the past year, now reformed!

Yes, so how much is the cause related to nutrient deficiencies, rather than excess carbohydrates?

An excellent question, my guess is that the problem is more about excess carbs rather than nutrient defficiency, isn't it about overloading one part of the system rather than depriving the majority? Also, were it defficiency wouldn't there be more evidence of other common diseases amongst diabetics?

What do the published experts say?

Here is an article which may be of interest

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2032692/

[MJP]

If you want to get an idea of just how much sugar people are eating, read the labels at the supermarket. Try to find a fruit juice without added sugar (there are some, but few and far between), yogurt without added sugar (none in my province), fruit preserves/jam without added sweetener (ditto), cereals which are not sweetened (only oatmeal), snack foods without huge amounts of sugar and fat added -- Thais add far more of these unhealthy things to their packaged foods than is done in the West. The idea of "no added sugar" being a selling point has not yet arrived.

Even loaves of bread here are stuffed full of sugar, hence why they're disgusting and mayonnaise too, utterly vile!

Now consider monosodium glutamate. It's on the table, in a shaker pot! MSG causes extreme insulin response as there's glutamate receptors in the pancreas.

It's no good here regards the risks of diabetes.

[chiang mai]

Interesting, I wonder is there a single test or range of tests that can be done on an individual to determine the extent of those defficency? Failing that I wonder what the key nutrients involved are, sounds like zinc and magnesium are two.

[Sheryl]

Interesting, I wonder is there a single test or range of tests that can be done on an individual to determine the extent of those defficency? Failing that I wonder what the key nutrients involved are, sounds like zinc and magnesium are two.

For the most part you do not need tests, an analysis of food intake will do (and what was used by this study).

People on metformin, especially if elderly and/or experiencing any memory problems, might do well to have their B12 levels checked, a simple blood tests.

And tests of Vit D levels is already recommended periodically for the elderly (starting earlier than that if any sign of osetoporosis).

[Ulysses G.]

It sounds like undermilled rice, i.e. milled to less than 100%. What I was referring to. It does not have the same amount of micro nutrients as brown rice as some of the kernal has been removed, but it does a lesser amount. Whereas fully polished white rice is stripped of all micronutrients.

It's not stripped of all micronutrients, merely diminished somewhat, and not as much as people are saying. The main difference is fiber. We covered this in another thread so I won't go into details again.

Any idea the name of that thread? I am very interested in this.

[MJP]

It sounds like undermilled rice, i.e. milled to less than 100%. What I was referring to. It does not have the same amount of micro nutrients as brown rice as some of the kernal has been removed, but it does a lesser amount. Whereas fully polished white rice is stripped of all micronutrients.

It's not stripped of all micronutrients, merely diminished somewhat, and not as much as people are saying. The main difference is fiber. We covered this in another thread so I won't go into details again.

Any idea the name of that thread? I am very interested in this.

Dunno where the thread is, but this is the stuff I sometimes have. Never have white rice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_rice

[chiang mai]

Interesting, I wonder is there a single test or range of tests that can be done on an individual to determine the extent of those defficency? Failing that I wonder what the key nutrients involved are, sounds like zinc and magnesium are two.

For the most part you do not need tests, an analysis of food intake will do (and what was used by this study).

People on metformin, especially if elderly and/or experiencing any memory problems, might do well to have their B12 levels checked, a simple blood tests.

And tests of Vit D levels is already recommended periodically for the elderly (starting earlier than that if any sign of osetoporosis).

For anyone interested there's a range of web sites out there that have analysis tools, designed to evaluate daily food intake over the space of a week, I have no idea what sort of results they return but I'm inclined to give one a try, the Singapore Health Dept nutional site looks interesting - just google "tools to analyze daily food intake". That would seem to be a better option than trying to get a doctor or endocrinologist in Thailand to evaluate your food chart, some how I can't see that working very well.

http://www.hpb.gov.sg/hpb/ere/ere070301.asp

https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/default.aspx

[tropo]

It sounds like undermilled rice, i.e. milled to less than 100%. What I was referring to. It does not have the same amount of micro nutrients as brown rice as some of the kernal has been removed, but it does a lesser amount. Whereas fully polished white rice is stripped of all micronutrients.

It's not stripped of all micronutrients, merely diminished somewhat, and not as much as people are saying. The main difference is fiber. We covered this in another thread so I won't go into details again.

Any idea the name of that thread? I am very interested in this.

It was in a thread discussing Oatmeal (of course )

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637028-oatmeal/page-5

We started discussing the nutrient comparisons of brown vs white rice from thread #100 - #109.

I made a big effort to include detailed information, therefore I didn't want to go over it all again. I initiated the discussion because a number of health "gurus" are starting to recommend white rice over brown. Dr Mercola is the most high profile messenger, but he's only a messenger of this new theory.

Edited September 27, 2013 by tropo

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks for that.

The main thing I am interested in, is whether brown rice is far superior for controlling blood sugar. It seems to me that the difference is actually minimal, but the diabetes websites usually push brown rice and whole grains. I eat brown rice and whole grains as much as possible (in moderation), but sometimes, when eating out, all that is available is white rice/bread and I'm not sure how much difference it makes to eat white grains occasionally.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Cobragold]

Thanks for that.

The main thing I am interested in, is whether brown rice is far superior for controlling blood sugar. It seems to me that the difference is actually minimal, but the diabetes websites usually push brown rice and whole grains. I eat brown rice and whole grains as much as possible (in moderation), but sometimes, when eating out, all that is available is white rice/bread and I'm not sure how much difference it makes to eat white grains occasionally.

Go for brasmati rice, it has a lower GI then all the rest, however it is very expansive. Red rice is also good. Brasmati is a long grain white rice.

[Cobragold]

For controlling blood sugar and keeping yourself full, you can try this. Shirataki noodles or rice, it's from japan and made from elephant yam. It's sold in Australia as slender rice or noodles, it's just 10 cal for every 100 grams with very low carb count. It's tasteless but takes on the taste of what it's put into, if you use it with tom yam it will taste real nice.

[MJP]

For controlling blood sugar and keeping yourself full, you can try this. Shirataki noodles or rice, it's from japan and made from elephant yam. It's sold in Australia as slender rice or noodles, it's just 10 cal for every 100 grams with very low carb count. It's tasteless but takes on the taste of what it's put into, if you use it with tom yam it will taste real nice.

Many thanks, I'll hunt around.

Chiang Mai (the poster, not the place) got his diabetes absolutely nailed over here. I think if Chiang Mai does a list of what he does eat, that would be a big help to many. We all know what not to eat, but ideas for what to eat is what's needed.

[chiang mai]

For controlling blood sugar and keeping yourself full, you can try this. Shirataki noodles or rice, it's from japan and made from elephant yam. It's sold in Australia as slender rice or noodles, it's just 10 cal for every 100 grams with very low carb count. It's tasteless but takes on the taste of what it's put into, if you use it with tom yam it will taste real nice.

Many thanks, I'll hunt around.

Chiang Mai (the poster, not the place) got his diabetes absolutely nailed over here. I think if Chiang Mai does a list of what he does eat, that would be a big help to many. We all know what not to eat, but ideas for what to eat is what's needed.

It's a short list:

Breakfast:

Is half a cup (dry) oatmeal and one cup skimmed milk plus two tablespoons of ground flax seed (microwaved for 90 seconds)

One hour after breakfast, half a cup of blueberries and half a cup of raspberries with two dollops of plain yogurt.

A couple of days a week it'll be a spinach omelette with a small amount of fried potato

Lunch is the biggest meal of the day so there's plenty of time to burn it off:

chicken, pork loin slamon or similar, sauteed in olive oil.

spinach, brocolli, asparagus, green beans or similar, plus twice a week, a small potato.

Dinner:

mixed salad with loads of evereything in it including olives and egg, dressing is oil and vinegar home mixed. + plus salmon, sardines, mackeral, chicken or pork.

Snacks:

unsweetend green tea and dry roasted almonds, perhaps some cheese. A slice of apple, chocolate that is 85% cocoa

The above might sound very boring and repetitve but Mrs CM does a great job of making the same basic ingredients interesting plus she's very good when it comes to making sauces.

Variety Items:

Shepherds pie using cauliflour instead of mashed potato.

Chicken enchilada's using corn tortilla's and no beans.

Reuben sandwhich using wholemeal bread.

Toast and something using a imported German wholemeal bread I buy from Tops.

Sausage and egg mcmuffins twice a month for breakfast!

That's about it, I'm marginally worried that my diet is not sufficently varied so I'm working currently on how to expand it.

PS: I also take a multivitamin every day.

If it helps any, I've been on the above diet for nine months now and I've seen my fasting number fall from circa 136 to an all time low of 88 four days ago, my 90 day average fasting number is 101 and my 90 day 2 hour postprandial breakfast, lunch and dinner numbers are 103, 105 and 107.

Edited September 28, 2013 by chiang mai

[belg]

and what does ur wife & her family eat? are they obsese?

[chiang mai]

and what does ur wife & her family eat? are they obsese?

I'm 77 kilo's (and 198) and in the gym five days a week, I run 4 kilo's a day.

Mrs CM weighs 46 kilo's and is mostly vegetarian, she's active in her job and also visits the gym from time to time, mostly to poke fun at me at my exploits.

We have no children.

My wife's family are all small boned and none are fat.

Edited September 29, 2013 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

Yes it's a crappy newspaper and there's probably lots of inaccuracies in the article so treat it as anecdotal, but it does point there being an increase in diabetes in the UK, specifically amongst Asian residents:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2438252/Areas-suffer-diabetes-Rising-obesity-causes-number-suffering-condition-double-20-years.html

[Sceptict11]

Yes it's a crappy newspaper and there's probably lots of inaccuracies in the article so treat it as anecdotal, but it does point there being an increase in diabetes in the UK, specifically amongst Asian residents:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2438252/Areas-suffer-diabetes-Rising-obesity-causes-number-suffering-condition-double-20-years.html

on

A totally unreliable source for health care information.

People originating from South Asia are known to have a higher incidence of diabetes ( and heart disease) !

This is not news !

[chiang mai]

Yes it's a crappy newspaper and there's probably lots of inaccuracies in the article so treat it as anecdotal, but it does point there being an increase in diabetes in the UK, specifically amongst Asian residents:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2438252/Areas-suffer-diabetes-Rising-obesity-causes-number-suffering-condition-double-20-years.html

on

A totally unreliable source for health care information.

People originating from South Asia are known to have a higher incidence of diabetes ( and heart disease) !

This is not news !

Which part of, "treat it as anecdotal" was unclear!

The following site however is not anecdotal and contains some interesting articles on the different aspects of diabetes, useful for those trying to research options and treatments. One study talks of the comparison between CABG and PCI in diabetic patients, it seems CABG patient survival rates are a third higher!

Edited September 30, 2013 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

Apologies, forgot to insert the link:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/onlinefirst

[Travel2003]

If you want to get an idea of just how much sugar people are eating, read the labels at the supermarket. Try to find a fruit juice without added sugar (there are some, but few and far between), yogurt without added sugar (none in my province), fruit preserves/jam without added sweetener (ditto), cereals which are not sweetened (only oatmeal), snack foods without huge amounts of sugar and fat added -- Thais add far more of these unhealthy things to their packaged foods than is done in the West. The idea of "no added sugar" being a selling point has not yet arrived.

I have just stopped drinking fruit juices here, since it takes so long to find one, and if one know the brand one normally just get the Mai mee reply from a less than interested employee.

To me it seems like the only way to get the message out regarding sugar usage here is to have one of the already too many (huge inflation here) so called superstars from one of the Soaps to deliver the message. Followed up with a cute girl giving some sort of silly boy-scout salute.

[chiang mai]

This makes me want to scream, it's an apparent quote by a movie star regarding diabetes and is widely reported elsewhere:

"I went to the doctors and they said you know those high blood sugar numbers you've been living with since you were 36, well you've graduated, you've got type 2 diabetes young man".

Tom Hanks

http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/435260/Tom-Hanks-is-diagnosed-with-type-2-diabetes-after-suffering-with-symptoms-for-20-years

One question: if his doctors have been telling him he had high blood sugar for the past what, twenty years or so, why were they not recommending preventative measures?

Edited October 9, 2013 by chiang mai

[bina]

I didnt read thru the entire thread but there is an ethnic factor:

just like yemenites in israel develop diabetes w in very high amounts now, the explanation being given is thtat their bodies for centuries were 'programmed' to eat certain foods and in certain time periods so that the body used the sugars and proteins in a different manner. now there is the same level (high level) of food all of the time but the body program is still on 'desert time'. the pasque yakee indians (native americans in arizona area) are suffereing from the same problem. here in israel the only time i found a doctor to actually take in to account my husband's ethnic background (him being thai, so docs dont see them here often as they are mostly immigrant workers and dont go to doctors ever), was when she heard that he was from a small village i.e. not a couple generations back city boy, she mentioned diabetes 2 because in most villages its not just the rice eating but that many of the thais here seem to eat until they are stuffed but can do without food the entire day just as well... in other words, feast or famine style eating as would be in a village in the past, one or two days there is meat and lots of food, most of the time there is little food, only nowadays its always feast so the body cannot manage all teh overload. there is alot written about that and ther relationship to diabetes... she actually tried to explain it to him , also about the drinking ( a few beers or glass or two of wine a day), but , no go....

also excercise: physical labor uses lots of energy. now, for instance, my husband no longer works in agriculture but in a restaraunt and eats as if he is still working 12 hour days in the fields...

he very much reminds me of the 'holocaust syndrome' we have here of the older people making their kids eat everything on the plate, no matter if u are hungry or not, becasue later there might not be any food. and it doesnt stay with first generations, but all the way to fourth generation behavior patterns. its not an actual thought but behavior patterns that are taught from a mother's breast, thru action. never waste rice. finish it all.

i know there is research on this, this subject has been discussed before (and i remember vaguely that i wrote the same thing as here also... ).

[tropo]

This makes me want to scream, it's an apparent quote by a movie star regarding diabetes and is widely reported elsewhere:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/435260/Tom-Hanks-is-diagnosed-with-type-2-diabetes-after-suffering-with-symptoms-for-20-years

"I went to the doctors and they said you know those high blood sugar numbers you've been living with since you were 36, well you've graduated, you've got type 2 diabetes young man".

Tom Hanks

One question: if his doctors have been telling him he had high blood sugar for the past what, twenty years or so, why were they not recommending preventative measures?

It certainly is a pathetic story. It just goes to show how bad it is to rely on medical advice alone and not do your own study. People would much rather pop magic pills than make lifestyle changes.

Tom's doctors have screwed him royally.... but this is exactly what doctors do. They just keep watching the numbers until one day they tell you you've graduated and you have to do something about it, which normally means medication.

Edited October 9, 2013 by tropo

[Tolley]

This makes me want to scream, it's an apparent quote by a movie star regarding diabetes and is widely reported elsewhere:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/435260/Tom-Hanks-is-diagnosed-with-type-2-diabetes-after-suffering-with-symptoms-for-20-years

"I went to the doctors and they said you know those high blood sugar numbers you've been living with since you were 36, well you've graduated, you've got type 2 diabetes young man".

Tom Hanks

One question: if his doctors have been telling him he had high blood sugar for the past what, twenty years or so, why were they not recommending preventative measures?

It certainly is a pathetic story. It just goes to show how bad it is to rely on medical advice alone and not do your own study. People would much rather pop magic pills than make lifestyle changes.

Tom's doctors have screwed him royally.... but this is exactly what doctors do. They just keep watching the numbers until one day they tell you you've graduated and you have to do something about it, which normally means medication.

To be fair we dont know what the doctors advised him. They might well have been telling him that he was in danger of getting diabetes if he didnt do something to get his blood sugar numbers down. They are quite proactive on blood sugar levels given the rise in type 2 diabetes.

It is much more likely Tom Hanks just ignored the advice he was getting until it was too late.

You are right however about people expecting miracle cures and magic pills. I am quite amazed how many people will do anything to protect their financial health but when it comes to their physical health they take very little care.

[Sheryl]

Agree -- highly unlikely that he wasn't counseled about diet, exercise etc. US doctors are very good about that.

[Travel2003]

And to follow up the sugar use here.

My wife bought me some drumsticks from a market in KK the other day.

Strange taste, and it turned out they had some sort of sweet sauce on them.

Honestly, sugar based sauce on chicken/drumsticks?

[tropo]

And to follow up the sugar use here.

My wife bought me some drumsticks from a market in KK the other day.

Strange taste, and it turned out they had some sort of sweet sauce on them.

Honestly, sugar based sauce on chicken/drumsticks?

Sugar (based sauces) and chicken is a match made in heaven. Honey-soy is great. I make cola wings (coke and soy sauce). Many chicken marinades have sweet bases. Honestly, I can't believe you think its strange.

[chiang mai]

And to follow up the sugar use here.

My wife bought me some drumsticks from a market in KK the other day.

Strange taste, and it turned out they had some sort of sweet sauce on them.

Honestly, sugar based sauce on chicken/drumsticks?

As far as I can tell just about all Thai food dishes use sugar in their preparation in some way, if there's a sauce involved it will almost certainly contain sugar, the good news is that if the dish is being made fresh you can often ask that no sugar is added - spare ribs, chicken cashew, sweet & sour dishes and most other one plate meals all contain lots of added sugar.

[Travel2003]

And to follow up the sugar use here.

My wife bought me some drumsticks from a market in KK the other day.

Strange taste, and it turned out they had some sort of sweet sauce on them.

Honestly, sugar based sauce on chicken/drumsticks?

Sugar (based sauces) and chicken is a match made in heaven. Honey-soy is great. I make cola wings (coke and soy sauce). Many chicken marinades have sweet bases. Honestly, I can't believe you think its strange.

I guess we like different stuff.

Just don't fancy sugar sweet chicken.

Come to think about it, Thais (and especially Americans) are crazy about sugar-sweet popcorn as well.

Im not a health freak. Far (away galaxies) from it.

Just have noticed the changes the last 10 years or so.

[Ulysses G.]

I guess we like different stuff.

Just don't fancy sugar sweet chicken.

It is not usually sugar sweet. It is more like putting HP sauce on a steak or catsup on chips. Most BBQ sauces have some kind of sweetener, but it does not take away from the savory aspect of the dish. I love BBQ chicken with or without BBQ sauce.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Ulysses G.