Malaysia 'has hidden agenda in Thailand's deep South'

[ppmacready]

The only thing I see KL gaining from the talks is it makes them look good. They know the BRN and Thailand all know nothing is going to come out of these talks except unreasonable demands.

Even if Thailand was to agree tio them there are still a lot of active groups that will ignore them.

the answer is not a military one it is a humane one. treat the residences of the provinces with respect and they will tire of the violence and start turning in the perpetrates of the violence.

You mean like they do in arab countries?

What hidden agenda?

Muslims want EVERYONE to be muslim!

[NoshowJones]

So why is this news ?

All Islamic countries have a secret agenda - to islamise the globe !

Don't worry, the Rothschilds, Bildeburgers, Masons and Jesuits will stop them.

I know what I would like to say, so I will keep quiet so I won't suspended for racism.

[simple1]

You can not deal with fanaticism. You either convert or, at best, delay. There is no peace to be had because there is no peace wanted. Everywhere around the globe these Muslim extremists are growing and causing issue - including issue with their own moderates and peace keepers. A softly, softly approach will never catch this particular monkey - it is insidious. It is protected in out PC west under religious freedom and freedom of speech, but this is not a religious struggle and it is not a political pressure group - it is a cancer with the sole purpose of spreading until it has everything, and all else is infected or dead. This is not about Islam per se, as much which these people do is directly against the Qur'an - remember that the Qur'an accepts both the Christian and Jewish holy men as profits, and their words as truth - and that they follow the same God (Abraham's God!) - thus to kill any of them is a sin (it is the belief in Allah not in Mohammed that is immortalised in the Qur'an). It is brain washed, illiterate and uneducated fools that are tricked into believing the same crap that the Moors used to force other Muslim kings to help conquer a quarter of the world after the fall of Rome on through the dark/medieval ages - and laid waist to one of the greatest intellectual and scientific eras and communities ever in existence (centred on Baghdad). And yes, the same crap that caused the Crusades, the slaughter of the Cathars and even the Elizabethan Spanish war (sinking of the Armada) - by the Catholic Church. As always this is about greed, land grabbing and power - they do not have the military might to conquer the Judeo-Christian world, yet, so there will be no direct conflict - for all the threats of all out religious war, it will not happen - it is easier to conquer from within and use our own liberal laws against us to let it happen. Thailand is standing firm right now - but they are also wall sitting; watching the cancer grow and covering it with band aids.

It is a shame, but I feel there are only two options: Pull out completely or look at ways to eradicate the Muslim power base entirely in the area. The easiest way to do either, would be to start with a complete evacuation, with evacuees searched or allowed to return to Malaysia - then clear the area. Strengthen the border (like the Israeli wall), strengthen navy in the area. Then start again, first repopulate from the Thai evacuees - then when ready open the Malaysia walk over border with secure searches and monitoring. Logistical nightmare - but perhaps better than the continual nightmare that will, like an open sore, only ever get worse.

How do you propose the Thai government forcibly 'evacuate' and relocate around 1.5 million Thai Muslims from the deep South provinces?

Baghdad was destroyed by the Mongols whose leader of the invasion forces (Hulagu Khan) historians claim was Buddhist, his army was eventually defeated when he tried to invade Muslim Egypt.

Edited September 28, 2013 by simple1

[wolf5370]

You can not deal with fanaticism. You either convert or, at best, delay. There is no peace to be had because there is no peace wanted. Everywhere around the globe these Muslim extremists are growing and causing issue - including issue with their own moderates and peace keepers. A softly, softly approach will never catch this particular monkey - it is insidious. It is protected in out PC west under religious freedom and freedom of speech, but this is not a religious struggle and it is not a political pressure group - it is a cancer with the sole purpose of spreading until it has everything, and all else is infected or dead. This is not about Islam per se, as much which these people do is directly against the Qur'an - remember that the Qur'an accepts both the Christian and Jewish holy men as profits, and their words as truth - and that they follow the same God (Abraham's God!) - thus to kill any of them is a sin (it is the belief in Allah not in Mohammed that is immortalised in the Qur'an). It is brain washed, illiterate and uneducated fools that are tricked into believing the same crap that the Moors used to force other Muslim kings to help conquer a quarter of the world after the fall of Rome on through the dark/medieval ages - and laid waist to one of the greatest intellectual and scientific eras and communities ever in existence (centred on Baghdad). And yes, the same crap that caused the Crusades, the slaughter of the Cathars and even the Elizabethan Spanish war (sinking of the Armada) - by the Catholic Church. As always this is about greed, land grabbing and power - they do not have the military might to conquer the Judeo-Christian world, yet, so there will be no direct conflict - for all the threats of all out religious war, it will not happen - it is easier to conquer from within and use our own liberal laws against us to let it happen. Thailand is standing firm right now - but they are also wall sitting; watching the cancer grow and covering it with band aids.

It is a shame, but I feel there are only two options: Pull out completely or look at ways to eradicate the Muslim power base entirely in the area. The easiest way to do either, would be to start with a complete evacuation, with evacuees searched or allowed to return to Malaysia - then clear the area. Strengthen the border (like the Israeli wall), strengthen navy in the area. Then start again, first repopulate from the Thai evacuees - then when ready open the Malaysia walk over border with secure searches and monitoring. Logistical nightmare - but perhaps better than the continual nightmare that will, like an open sore, only ever get worse.

How do you propose the Thai government forcibly 'evacuate' and relocate around 1.5 million Thai Muslims from the deep South provinces?

Baghdad was destroyed by the Mongols whose leader of the invasion forces (Hulagu Khan) historians claim was Buddhist, his army was eventually defeated when he tried to invade Muslim Egypt.

As I said Logistical Nightmare - the only other way is to do it while people are in place, far more dangerous I'd say. They would have to do it in the age old way - compulsory purchase and sweetners (such as parcel of land to live/work on). There are no good ways that I can see - if there were, it would have been done here or in other places.

Baghdad had already ceased to be the enlightened city by the time of the Mongol conquest (which was horrific too - wiping out every person in Persia according to history). From almost the minute Mohamed died, there were schisms and civil wars (the creation of the Sunni Vs Shia for example) - the Fitnas. By the Abbasid Era (circa 750 - 1300) it all went down hill - into religious persecution (which is ironic as it was the Jewish and nomadic Arabs that helped overthrow the Persians and Byzantines in the first place), and conquest (Iberia, Persia, Magrib, etc) - and pushing the "faith" out as far as China and Africa and Southern France.

Islam was once an enlightened religion, where Muslims travelled the world bringing back texts and knowledge from the known world (India, Egypt, Greece, etc) - great men like the Persian Abu Abdallah Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi who brought together Indian and Greek text to create algebra, this was the beginning of Islam (circa 800AD)

[tingtongteesood]

DO NOT deal with terrorists, arrest them and bring them to justice, or if necessary, kill them ! But whatever you do, do not give in to their demands...

[ravip]

What country in SEA is not opportunistic?

Honestly, this applies ONLY to SEA countries?

[hellodolly]

So why is this news ?

All Islamic countries have a secret agenda - to islamise the globe !

It's their duty.

Never seen any Moslem knocking on my door trying to convert me - plenty of Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like.

You've never lived in Muslim dominated regions then. The fanatics of all religions are bad news, but the Muslim ones have a foothold in their part of the world, whereas secular forces maintain control in the Judeo-Christian world - also in the Buddhist and Hindu and so forth. The problem with Islam in particular is that it is claimed (in the holy book) that it is the final religion, Muhammad the final prophet, etc. That's interpreted to mean that if you don't accept it, then you're against Allah and thus a stain on the planet. Islamic superiority etc.

Hence why people in Yala, for example, have a turnout for hundreds at protests when jihadists get arrested there (such as a religious schoolteacher whose phone was used to blow up a b*mb in Pattani a few months back, as reported on ThaiVisa) or when the Egyptian army killed a bunch of jihadists there, etc., but there's a defeaning silence when Thai "kuffars" are slaughtered or beheaded in their own backyard.

You don't have to live in a Muslim dominated region. All they need is 5% of the population and they start the Islamic BS. Push shove proclaim you are infidels and on it goes.

My sister a devout Chatholic went to a lecture on Islam given by a Catholic priest who had grown up in Muslim communities. There was three Imen in the back to check what he said. He gave a very good talk stressing good points. When he was done he said is there any questions. One immediately asked what about the way they treat women. The Priest said I was hoping you wouldn't ask that question. The Imen kept their mouth shut they had no answer for that. Well they did but they sure didn't want to admit it.

[mickyboy]

The only thing I see KL gaining from the talks is it makes them look good. They know the BRN and Thailand all know nothing is going to come out of these talks except unreasonable demands.

Even if Thailand was to agree tio them there are still a lot of active groups that will ignore them.

the answer is not a military one it is a humane one. treat the residences of the provinces with respect and they will tire of the violence and start turning in the perpetrates of the violence.

islamist will never give up the struggle to take over the world EVER so forget about makeing deals peace will never come look at other countries and see there where it has gone on for decades these people have no respect for human life only to make islam there world

[samran]

The only thing I see KL gaining from the talks is it makes them look good. They know the BRN and Thailand all know nothing is going to come out of these talks except unreasonable demands.

Even if Thailand was to agree tio them there are still a lot of active groups that will ignore them.

the answer is not a military one it is a humane one. treat the residences of the provinces with respect and they will tire of the violence and start turning in the perpetrates of the violence.

islamist will never give up the struggle to take over the world EVER so forget about makeing deals peace will never come look at other countries and see there where it has gone on for decades these people have no respect for human life only to make islam there world

Before you go off on your own bigoted jihad, you might want to consider learning the difference between 'their' and 'there'.

[chuang]

In the south most muslim families if not all, have portraits of the Malaysia king and queen in their homes..not the thai royalty..

[hansnl]

The only thing I see KL gaining from the talks is it makes them look good. They know the BRN and Thailand all know nothing is going to come out of these talks except unreasonable demands.

Even if Thailand was to agree tio them there are still a lot of active groups that will ignore them.

the answer is not a military one it is a humane one. treat the residences of the provinces with respect and they will tire of the violence and start turning in the perpetrates of the violence.

Respect, sir, is a two sided thing.

Treating the residents of the muslim provinces with respect and humanity, will be seen by them as weakness.

Resulting in more demands and more atrocities.

And making nice moves will never stop the atrocities nor will the residents EVER turn in there religious brothers, the quoran does not allow that.

Agreements with non muslims?

Can be broken at will, no problem, the quoran allows that.

You should know, looking around in the world, where islam touches other religions, there is trouble.

Some examples?

Phillipines, Indonesia (Moluccans and New Guinea), Egypt (Copts), Syria (Syriacs), Nigeria, Sudan to name a few.

China, India, let us not forget those countries.

And what about the troubles made by islam in Continental Europe, the US, the UK, Australia?

Of course, Malaysia has a double agenda.

Friend of me, an escaped Buddhist from Malaysia living in Thailand, agrees on that.

[squarethecircle]

"First Malaysia is not an 'Islamic country' but is around 60% Muslim."

Ruling party states that "promoting and propagating Islam" is an official policy. On paper it's a secular state but Muslim fanatics are taking control there. The Chinese and Indian minorities there are explicitly treated as inferiors there (vis-a-vis the "bumiptera" or however you spell it policy) but don't resort to bombing or murdering innocents like the so-called freedom fighters do in South Thailand. Actually there was a gigantic peaceful Gandhi-inspired march in KL several years back by the Indian population, it was suppressed but was impossible to ignore. Seems like the people on this virtual pub who apologize for the terrorists in S Thailand should read up on this.

"Third Malaysia has never attempted to take over the southern Thai provinces and given their likely support for the opposition would not be in Malaysia's interest."

Not officially, but it's at best looking the other way at what's going on. Looking at some of the videos of the assaults there (such as the one in July 28, 2012 on youtube) it's clear the jihadists are receiving military training, for which they're crossing the border and heading perhaps to Indonesia. Both Indo and Malay have in the past refused to turn over suspects to Thai authorities.

"Fourth the Thai army & police have a horrendous human rights record in the south (see Tak Bai, Kru Se etc) and are little better than the insurgents at killing innocents."

Most people can see the difference between suppressing a violent insurrection, as the authorities are working on, and randomly killing and terrorizing people to achieve their goals, as the flip-side is doing.

"Fifth the idiotic mantra of Muslims wanting to take over the world is not only wrong but just gives credibility to the few extremists who talk that talk."

Actually there's quite widespread support for this among Muslim countries. It's called Political Islam and is quite separate from the "spiritual" form, which PI actively suppresses. Better familiarize yourself with it as it explains why factions in Muslim regions - from Nigeria to Phillippines - consistently respond in such incredibly inhumane/irrational/evil ways to perceived injustices.

[Yunla]

What a load of ignorant tripe - with one or two exceptions (Samram especially) - from posters who seem to allow their prejudices trump any thought or knowledge.

First Malaysia is not an 'Islamic country' but is around 60% Muslim.

Second some of the northern provinces of Malaysia bordering Thailand are locally ruled by the Islamic Party who are in opposition to the government.

Third Malaysia has never attempted to take over the southern Thai provinces and given their likely support for the opposition would not be in Malaysia's interest.

Fourth the Thai army & police have a horrendous human rights record in the south (see Tak Bai, Kru Se etc) and are little better than the insurgents at killing innocents.

Fifth the idiotic mantra of Muslims wanting to take over the world is not only wrong but just gives credibility to the few extremists who talk that talk.

Sixth up to c2004, the south was mainly peaceful being controlled by a joint body of police, military & local leaders. Thaksin dismantled this body and then allowed the police carte blanche to execute 'drug dealers'. Giving the corrupt police this power allowed scores to be settled everywhere including the south. These two factors set off an anti-government insurgency in the south which only real diplomacy (including some form of local autonomy) will resolve.

Well said. Re; the soft-islamophobic stuff, people should be aware and even do research on the use of radical islamist sockpuppets by western intel agencies, all across the ME, Caucasia, and indeed briefly in Indonesia and Singapore too. Yes there are violent muslims, there are also violent footballers, and violent shoe-salesmen. The reason the media is saturated with crazy islamist death-squads, is that the West has been funding and arming these death-squads for 50 years and sending them in to destabilise governments and remove leaders around the world. The fact that S.A. etc. and Sharia in general exhibit brutality to women or non-believers, is not true of all muslims or even most muslims, and also a lot of the jihadists are on Western payrolls, if they even realise it or not.

I also agree with you completely about the South pre/post Thaksin, and also that a lot of blood is spilled by the authorities down there, both by order and by their own initiative. I don't personally see Malaysia wanting any more than to see an end to the deaths of innocents in the Malay community, be that from separatist violence or from the authorities violence. Geopolitical conflict over the natural resources in that area is also unrealistic in my opinion, the long term damage would outweigh the benefits.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Yunla

[squarethecircle]

"Yes there are violent muslims, there are also violent footballers, and violent shoe-salesmen."

There is no idealogy in the latter two cases. Religion is powerful and that can be used for both good and bad purposes. With all the parallels going on across the world, where Political Islam is involved, bombings/shootings/murders of innocents, it's surprising to see the PC crowd chiming in and defending it.

"The reason the media is saturated with crazy islamist death-squads, is that the West has been funding and arming these death-squads for 50 years and sending them in to destabilise governments and remove leaders around the world. "

Western agencies have made mistakes in working with jihadists, such as in Afghanistan in the 80's, and fuelling Shia/Sunni civil war in Iraq, but the Islamists exist quite on their own (albeit they never take responsibility for the hells they create). The best analogy I know of is with the Nazis of Germany - sure, they were fueled by what happened to them after World War One, but explaining all that they did to Jews, Gypsies, and so forth, as a response to being humiliated, is on the same level of explaining Islamist terrorism as a response to (or result of) western intervention. It exists quite on its own, is a growing fire, and I predict will be the main threat to civilizations such as China, Thailand, India, US, Europe, Kenya, and so on, in the 21st century.

[outsider]

Malaysia has never been up front as to the deep south problem , it is not in their interests to support Thailand, their religious brothers hold the upper hand , this religion wields enormous power, never take notice what is said by Malaysia, Malaysia will always support that power base, Muslim religion.

I beg to differ it is in the interest of Malaysia to have Thailand settle the problem. They want no part of those three provinces. Malaysia as I under stand it is about 40% Muslim with ever increasing pressure to bring Sharia law in. They do not need the problems that come with those three provinces it is to their advantage to see Thailand settle the problem.

As I said in an earlier post Thailand must handle it humanly as is they are not even attempting to do so. They have the citizens just as leery of them as they are of the terrorists. Show them that they are on their side at the personal level. Not the level of the Army and the Police.

If Yingluck would donate a third of the time she spends gallivanting around the world reading ignorant speeches and assuming her audiences are ignorant she could make a big difference. Go down there and admit the faults do not try to cover them up. Try to get close to the people as a human being not an authority figure representing a man who was the cause of many deaths there.

But no that is not the Thai wasy hold peace talks they know will do nothing and turn the area into a battle field. Show the people that she can be trusted and relied on. As is they think the only thing she is good for is flying around the world and shopping. No wonder they don't trust the Thai government.

Malaysia is about 40% Muslim? You sure? I think it's more than that.

Edited October 1, 2013 by outsider

[Gonsalviz]

My friend who has close ties to the Puea Thai government has said for years that Malaysia is behind the insurgency.

You can't really say Malaysia. You can very well say Malay. On the other hand Malaysia won't do anything to discourage them.

[Gonsalviz]

"First Malaysia is not an 'Islamic country' but is around 60% Muslim."

Ruling party states that "promoting and propagating Islam" is an official policy. On paper it's a secular state but Muslim fanatics are taking control there. The Chinese and Indian minorities there are explicitly treated as inferiors there (vis-a-vis the "bumiptera" or however you spell it policy) but don't resort to bombing or murdering innocents like the so-called freedom fighters do in South Thailand. Actually there was a gigantic peaceful Gandhi-inspired march in KL several years back by the Indian population, it was suppressed but was impossible to ignore. Seems like the people on this virtual pub who apologize for the terrorists in S Thailand should read up on this.

"Third Malaysia has never attempted to take over the southern Thai provinces and given their likely support for the opposition would not be in Malaysia's interest."

Not officially, but it's at best looking the other way at what's going on. Looking at some of the videos of the assaults there (such as the one in July 28, 2012 on youtube) it's clear the jihadists are receiving military training, for which they're crossing the border and heading perhaps to Indonesia. Both Indo and Malay have in the past refused to turn over suspects to Thai authorities.

"Fourth the Thai army & police have a horrendous human rights record in the south (see Tak Bai, Kru Se etc) and are little better than the insurgents at killing innocents."

Most people can see the difference between suppressing a violent insurrection, as the authorities are working on, and randomly killing and terrorizing people to achieve their goals, as the flip-side is doing.

"Fifth the idiotic mantra of Muslims wanting to take over the world is not only wrong but just gives credibility to the few extremists who talk that talk."

Actually there's quite widespread support for this among Muslim countries. It's called Political Islam and is quite separate from the "spiritual" form, which PI actively suppresses. Better familiarize yourself with it as it explains why factions in Muslim regions - from Nigeria to Phillippines - consistently respond in such incredibly inhumane/irrational/evil ways to perceived injustices.

Your 5th point is technically correct in that moderate Muslims do not want to take over the world is true but the radical will not rest until it is done.

[jmccarty]

Malaysia already defacto controls the offshore Malaysia Thailand Joint Development Area MTJDA for oil and gas exploitation in a very large shared >7,000 square km North-of-the-border area. The MTJDA office is in KL and the offshore contractors in Malaysia are notified of work opportunities by default, the Thailand based contractors find out later when the Malaysians are over capacity and they ask the Thailand contractors to do the work under sub-contract.

Check it out here: http://mtja.org/whatisjda.php

Edited October 9, 2013 by jmccarty