Thai Commerce Minister hits back at World Bank

[webfact]

Commerce Minister hits back at World Bank
By English News



BANGKOK, Oct 9 – Deputy Prime Minister Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan yesterday defended Thailand's against the World Bank’s criticism on the government’s rice subsidy, saying the two-year pledging scheme for farmers cost the state only Bt200 billion.

Mr Niwatthamrong, who is concurrently commerce minister, was referring to a recent statement by the World Bank that the Thai government incurred heavy loss from the rice purchase scheme.

He said budget allocation for the rice subsidy programme was Bt330 billion per year with an allowed loss of not more than Bt100 billion annually and that the combined loss during the last two years was Bt200 billion.

He said Thai rice is still in great demand in many countries and that the Thai government signed a memorandum of understanding with China last week to sell 1.2 million tonnes of rice.

The agreement will definitely be signed this month, he said.

Mr Niwatthamrong ruled out a report that the government would have only Bt230 billion in its circulating fund for rice purchases in the 2013/2014 crop, standing firm that the Cabinet has approved Bt270 billion for this year’s rice subsidy.

The Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) said earlier that a circulating fund of Bt230 billion would be allocated for rice purchase in the new harvest.

“I don’t know where the BAAC got this information. Please rely on data and information of the Commerce Ministry and Finance Ministry,” he said.

The Commerce Ministry will boost promotion of OTOP products, particularly textiles, clothing and souvenirs to the global market next year. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-10-09

[robblok]

This is so funny, at least at the wold bank they don't believe the lies of this Red government.

People like the finance minister who thinks its ok to lie to install confidence...

Red propaganda...god i bet they hate they can't control the news.

Sad that so many dumb farmers voted them in, but understandable bribes always work and now they have to go on bribing.

Wish they had something like if you pay taxes you can vote if not tough luck. Its so sad for the people paying taxes seeing it all spend like this.

[dru2]

You mean you believe the World Bank over the Pheu Thai commerce minister?

[slapout]

The same ministry said last week that the allowed loss in this program was 80 billion and the figures for the second year of the program had not nor would be finilized for some time.

I think the boy is out of his league to try and correct the International monitors who have been doing this type evulation sence before he was a gleam in his father eye. Another group of numbers thrown out for the Thai press/people who either believes or has been paid enough to parrot what he is told.

The only number that has been consistent about the rice program as far as the Thai government Ministries are concerned, is, 'the first year was 2011, for its implimentation'.

[gemini81]

You mean you believe the World Bank over the Pheu Thai commerce minister?

Cannot believe PTP any more than rothchilds and goldman sachs etc.- only the world bankers are a little better and more professional at lying.

[siampolee]

Well when push comes to shove my money is on the world bank.

He said Thai rice is still in great demand in many countries and that the Thai government signed a memorandum of understanding with China last week to sell 1.2 million tonnes of rice.

The agreement will definitely be signed this month, he said.

As I recall this M.O.U. was originally mentioned some three weeks or so back and the matter was to be finalised then.

one wonders just how any of the statement being made by the commerce minister can be or could be considered as true facts as opposed to outright lies?

The Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) said earlier that a circulating fund of Bt230 billion would be allocated for rice purchase in the new harvest.

“I don’t know where the BAAC got this information. Please rely on data and information of the Commerce Ministry and Finance Ministry,” he said.

So according to the above statement there would seem to be no co-operation twixt the B.A.A.C. and the Commerce Ministry, considering that the B.A.A.C. are the government owned bank dealing with the financial aspect of the rice pledging scam scheme I feel they are indeed a more reliable source ( for what it is worth as a government controlled bank) than the Commerce Ministry.

It may well be a good idea for Mr Niwatthamrong to remind his puppet master and possibly his staff and his good self too that ''liars need good memories."

All one see's in the comments made Mr Niwatthamrong are that it is a classic case of someone being put into a corner who is being asked to explain matters but who can only reply by clutching at rice straws and blustering distorted replies to attempt to take the pressure off of himself and his puppet masters.

Liar liar, pants on fire.

Edited October 9, 2013 by siampolee

[tomross46]

It is not only the World Bank, but Bloomberg also. Bloomberg did not only question the rice pledging but the rubber also. They insinuated that this was a way for the government to placate the populace of rural Thailand, and to insure their votes. They did not say it was vote buying.

[noitom]

He's hitting back - These Thais, they are something else - they hit back, when the outside world questions their work.

[chainarong]

The Commerce Minister is quiet correct , the good people of Thailand should take note of their figures, however the PTP are so shonky and play the old game of feed the peasants bu!!sh!t and treat them like mushrooms that quiet frankly nothing that any department can say would have a ring of truth in it, when it comes down to money , I'll back the world bank anytime against the figures issued by the PTP.

[hitz]

Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan yesterday defended Thailand's against the World Bank’s criticism on the government’s rice subsidy

Mr Niwatthamrong, who is concurrently commerce minister,

Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong could just have his Deputy Commerce Minister Natthawut threaten to burn down World Bank for their defamation of his rice scam.

[hitz]

It is not only the World Bank, but Bloomberg also. Bloomberg did not only question the rice pledging but the rubber also. They insinuated that this was a way for the government to placate the populace of rural Thailand, and to insure their votes. They did not say it was vote buying.

Does Bloomberg have a Bangkok office? Deputy Commerce Minister Natthawut could put that down on his burn down list, also.

[hitz]

The Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) said earlier that a circulating fund of Bt230 billion would be allocated for rice purchase in the new harvest.

I dont know where the BAAC got this information. Please rely on data and information of the Commerce Ministry and Finance Ministry, he said.

Liar liar, pants on fire.

in keeping with the burning theme

[monkeycountry]

It would be wise if the PTP government realised there are major differences between the red shirts and the World Bank / Moody's. The former will believe anything the government says, the latter will not. Especially since the government keeps all the raw numbers secret. That in itself proves to both the World Bank, Moody's and basically everyone with a brain that the PTP government is lying. Even if the PTP was not lying, the World Bank and Moody's will still use their own calculations based on raw numbers.

The PTP government should also realise that when it comes to credibility among foreign investors, banks etc., noone cares what the PTP says, they care only what the the international agencies have to say.

[hitz]

This is so funny, at least at the wold bank they don't believe the lies of this Red government.

Also in keeping with the Deputy Commerce Minister Natthawut theme.

[monkeycountry]

"Please rely on data and information of the Commerce Ministry and Finance Ministry,” he said."

The 2 ministries that keep most information secret, and when they finally do reveal something, they later admit it is "white lies". Yes let us all rely on them

[ballpoint]

The World Bank is not my father!

And there are some still trying to tell us this government is doing a good job.

[monkeycountry]

To be honest. I do not think the PTP is that stupid, and I think the PTP is well aware that noone outside Thailand believe anything they say. The reason they "hit back" is simply to convince their voters, the red shirts, that they are right, and the rest of the world is wrong. Fortunately for the PTP, that is also the general view of their voters, so they are likely to believe the PTP.

[Katipo]

In a country where politicians lie and are even more corrupt than usual, I think I am going to side with the World Bank on this one. Not to mention that in my honest experience, many Thai’s have trouble admitting they are wrong, let alone saying they are sorry for their mistake.

[WhizBang]

Wish they had something like if you pay taxes you can vote if not tough luck. Its so sad for the people paying taxes seeing it all spend like this.

Now THAT is a good idea. It would sure shift the vote in this country. I would like to see it in the USA too, although, not sure it would make a difference there.

[robblok]

Wish they had something like if you pay taxes you can vote if not tough luck. Its so sad for the people paying taxes seeing it all spend like this.

Now THAT is a good idea. It would sure shift the vote in this country. I would like to see it in the USA too, although, not sure it would make a difference there.

Seems only fair as they are the ones paying for it all. Right now their money is used to buy poor votes so more of their money can be stolen. Does not sound fair to me where the ones paying have nothing to say in it and their own money is used for a form of vote buying but against them. Yea I know its not a fair thing to think about but as long as it would keep the reds away I am all for it.

I feel hurt how they are raping the funds of this country and totally control it Not ever accepting their mistakes and so on. Telling lies all the time. The current voters don't care about corruption as its not their money that is being stolen. I bet the ones paying all the taxes hate that its stolen like this but because the majority (also the ones that dont pay no coincidence there) selects these criminals.

[worgeordie]

I don't think anyone will ever know,how much rice is been bought,how much was

paid for it,what the final loses will be,plus where a lot of it has vanished to,lost

to birds,insects,and rats(the very big ones !)with trucks.

The only way the Govt.is going to come out of this looking good,is if there is a

harvest failure in India,Vietnam,and USA,and there is a shortage of rice,but in

the short term this does not look likely to happen,so the Govt.keeps on buying

more rice at well over the World market rate.

It was a gamble and not even a calculated one,to do this, now the whole of

Thailand is going to suffer the loses.

regards Worgeordie

[Soutpeel]

Wonder if YK is going to sue the world bank ?

[JoeThePoster]

How dare they spread false information about Thailand! That's it, I'm closing my account at the World Bank.

[marcusd]

EXCUSE ME.... But there is a LOSS estimated and allowable of 200 BILLION BAHT!!!! A LOSS! Regardless of the figure 80 billion, 200 billion or 270 billion. MY GOD and these people run a country? So this is a way of SELLING A COMMODITY TO HELP THE COUNTRY by creating ASTRONOMICAL LOSSES? And they want to borrow even more?

And to the fools who vote for a few baht... you get what you pay for ... or in this case what they buy you for

[monkeycountry]

Wish they had something like if you pay taxes you can vote if not tough luck. Its so sad for the people paying taxes seeing it all spend like this.

Now THAT is a good idea. It would sure shift the vote in this country. I would like to see it in the USA too, although, not sure it would make a difference there.

Seems only fair as they are the ones paying for it all. Right now their money is used to buy poor votes so more of their money can be stolen. Does not sound fair to me where the ones paying have nothing to say in it and their own money is used for a form of vote buying but against them. Yea I know its not a fair thing to think about but as long as it would keep the reds away I am all for it.

I feel hurt how they are raping the funds of this country and totally control it Not ever accepting their mistakes and so on. Telling lies all the time. The current voters don't care about corruption as its not their money that is being stolen. I bet the ones paying all the taxes hate that its stolen like this but because the majority (also the ones that dont pay no coincidence there) selects these criminals.

I think the trick is to make sure everyone who works pays income tax, even those with low income/salaries. Even if people only pay a few hundred baht in tax, they will suddenly start to feel that it is also their money being used/misused, and therefore they will start to care how it is used/misused. Seeing a few hundred baht of their hard earned money disappear from their pocket each month will also make them realise that the money the government spends is not coming from thin air.

You could argue that everyone pays VAT and that should have the same effect. However, most people do not really understand VAT or that the VAT is actually tax, and as the price they see in the stores already has VAT included, they do not even realise that they are paying anything but the price for the actual product. Therefore VAT has no psychological impact on most people.

Regarding voting, I do agree that people should somehow make an effort in order to be allowed to vote. However, tax may not be the right way to go, as lots of people do not pay tax, such as the elderly, unemployed etc. I suggest instead some form of simple test that everyone, even the uneducated, can pass if they are prepared to make a small effort in order to prepare for the test and thereby learn a little about the society they live in. It could contain basic general knowledge questions that everyone can learn in a day if they are prepared to read a predistributed book or listen to a predistributed cd (for those who cannot read).

If tax has to be the deciding factor, then you could differentiate, so people who do not pay tax get 1 vote, people who do pay tax get 2 etc.Those who bother to file a tax return, even if they do not have to pay any tax due to low salary, could get 2 votes as well - it still shows they care. All those who make good money but do not file tax returns, will only get 1 vote. They are cheating society anyway, so don't deserve more than 1 vote.

I do not know what would be the best system, and I do not suggest this just to get rid of the PTP, my suggestions goes for all countries, not just Thailand. The intention is to get rid of the voters who either do not know anything, or do not care about anything, as well as making sure that those who contribute to society and/or care about society are actually those who run society. If you want to be heard, you have to make an effort, one way or another, not just turn 18!

The current system where any lazy idiot over 18 can vote makes no sense to me - in any country. We might as well let monkeys and children vote too!

[monkeycountry]

The PTP government keeps saying they cannot calculate losses due to the fact that they have not yet sold all their stock. Virtually every company in the world, including Thailand, has some form of stock that keeps coming in and keeps going out in a continuous circle. Yet all these companies manage to, and are required to, file a tax return stating their profit/loss each year. It is very rare that companies run completely out of stock, which seems to be what the PTP is waiting for before calculating their profit/loss.

The "trick" is to simply put a value on your existing stock based on the current market price (not some future imaginary/fantasy price), and to disregard stock that is damaged/obsolete/unsellable - a very simple task for anyone but the PTP.

[Thai at Heart]

Wish they had something like if you pay taxes you can vote if not tough luck. Its so sad for the people paying taxes seeing it all spend like this.

Now THAT is a good idea. It would sure shift the vote in this country. I would like to see it in the USA too, although, not sure it would make a difference there.

Seems only fair as they are the ones paying for it all. Right now their money is used to buy poor votes so more of their money can be stolen. Does not sound fair to me where the ones paying have nothing to say in it and their own money is used for a form of vote buying but against them. Yea I know its not a fair thing to think about but as long as it would keep the reds away I am all for it.

I feel hurt how they are raping the funds of this country and totally control it Not ever accepting their mistakes and so on. Telling lies all the time. The current voters don't care about corruption as its not their money that is being stolen. I bet the ones paying all the taxes hate that its stolen like this but because the majority (also the ones that dont pay no coincidence there) selects these criminals.

I think the trick is to make sure everyone who works pays income tax, even those with low income/salaries. Even if people only pay a few hundred baht in tax, they will suddenly start to feel that it is also their money being used/misused, and therefore they will start to care how it is used/misused. Seeing a few hundred baht of their hard earned money disappear from their pocket each month will also make them realise that the money the government spends is not coming from thin air.

You could argue that everyone pays VAT and that should have the same effect. However, most people do not really understand VAT or that the VAT is actually tax, and as the price they see in the stores already has VAT included, they do not even realise that they are paying anything but the price for the actual product. Therefore VAT has no psychological impact on most people.

Regarding voting, I do agree that people should somehow make an effort in order to be allowed to vote. However, tax may not be the right way to go, as lots of people do not pay tax, such as the elderly, unemployed etc. I suggest instead some form of simple test that everyone, even the uneducated, can pass if they are prepared to make a small effort in order to prepare for the test and thereby learn a little about the society they live in. It could contain basic general knowledge questions that everyone can learn in a day if they are prepared to read a predistributed book or listen to a predistributed cd (for those who cannot read).

If tax has to be the deciding factor, then you could differentiate, so people who do not pay tax get 1 vote, people who do pay tax get 2 etc.Those who bother to file a tax return, even if they do not have to pay any tax due to low salary, could get 2 votes as well - it still shows they care. All those who make good money but do not file tax returns, will only get 1 vote. They are cheating society anyway, so don't deserve more than 1 vote.

I do not know what would be the best system, and I do not suggest this just to get rid of the PTP, my suggestions goes for all countries, not just Thailand. The intention is to get rid of the voters who either do not know anything, or do not care about anything, as well as making sure that those who contribute to society and/or care about society are actually those who run society. If you want to be heard, you have to make an effort, one way or another, not just turn 18!

The current system where any lazy idiot over 18 can vote makes no sense to me - in any country. We might as well let monkeys and children vote too!

Some merit that everyone should pay. Not the rated votes versus payment though.

Bear in mind that tax evasion is a national passtime here for the wealthy mind you.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[MaxLee]

Thailand the emerging hub of "IMPORTS for fat and lazy stubborn feudal government swine officials ONLY" : "We take and reap, and not in your wildest dreams are we thinking about giving back, screw your free trade association ideas out of the window, because we're importing only until the taxpayers' money has drenched out dry"

[casindonet]

Government officials are allowed to tell WHITE LIES , it's considered ethical here in Thailand....it's Thainess at its' best

[LarryBird]

Sorry for not being good at Google, but does anyone have a copy of the World Bank comments?