Bangkok desperately needs more mass transit

[whybother]

I agree there should be a balance; and I don't currently see it. From the purple line in Bangyai, Nonthaburi to Asok in Bangkok there are about 26 stops. Who knowns how much this will cost as well as any problems associated with changing from the puple to the blue line. I expect that very few car owners will give up their car for the problems of a compute; such as the availability of parking for their car near a station for the communte to Bangkok, the long ride and expected high cost of the communte and the inconvenience of not having a car once they reach Bangkok in order to get to work. I think the consumers that would actually make use of the lines, the van riders, will find the commute too costly.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that use the existing trains rather than using vans or driving themselves. As more lines are opened, the trains will quickly be filled (as seen on the ARL City Line).

If the trains were so cheap that all the people that are using vans and buses could afford to use them, then, as I said earlier, it would make them unusable.

At the moment, all the train lines are overflowing during peak times and often quite full out of peak. That indicates that the price is not too expensive.

I agree that the trains in Bangkok are crowded. This is easily remedied by installing more carriages: which no one cares to do. Traffic on the BTS and MRT currently is local. I suggest that movement on the new line from Nonthaburi , another province, to downtown bangkok will used sparsely by car owners for this long commute for the reasons I have already listed. It will be sparsely used by van riders because it is too expensive.

Who should pay for the new carriages? When they do finally add more carriages, I would suggest that they will be full, suggesting that the price isn't too expensive.

I suggest that the new line from Nonthaburi will be crowded when it's opened.

[BuddyPinkham]

Hell, just use the sidewalks; motorbikes do it all the time and get pissed when you won't move out of their way!

[kirk0233]

I agree there should be a balance; and I don't currently see it. From the purple line in Bangyai, Nonthaburi to Asok in Bangkok there are about 26 stops. Who knowns how much this will cost as well as any problems associated with changing from the puple to the blue line. I expect that very few car owners will give up their car for the problems of a compute; such as the availability of parking for their car near a station for the communte to Bangkok, the long ride and expected high cost of the communte and the inconvenience of not having a car once they reach Bangkok in order to get to work. I think the consumers that would actually make use of the lines, the van riders, will find the commute too costly.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that use the existing trains rather than using vans or driving themselves. As more lines are opened, the trains will quickly be filled (as seen on the ARL City Line).

If the trains were so cheap that all the people that are using vans and buses could afford to use them, then, as I said earlier, it would make them unusable.

At the moment, all the train lines are overflowing during peak times and often quite full out of peak. That indicates that the price is not too expensive.

I agree that the trains in Bangkok are crowded. This is easily remedied by installing more carriages: which no one cares to do. Traffic on the BTS and MRT currently is local. I suggest that movement on the new line from Nonthaburi , another province, to downtown bangkok will used sparsely by car owners for this long commute for the reasons I have already listed. It will be sparsely used by van riders because it is too expensive.

Who should pay for the new carriages? When they do finally add more carriages, I would suggest that they will be full, suggesting that the price isn't too expensive.

I suggest that the new line from Nonthaburi will be crowded when it's opened.

Perhaps carriages should be purchased until it is possible to occasionally sit when riding. Your global argument that the price is perfectly right because the train is always crowded so therefore it is not too expensive will then have to be replaced by something different.

[FarangTalk]

I agree there should be a balance; and I don't currently see it. From the purple line in Bangyai, Nonthaburi to Asok in Bangkok there are about 26 stops. Who knowns how much this will cost as well as any problems associated with changing from the puple to the blue line. I expect that very few car owners will give up their car for the problems of a compute; such as the availability of parking for their car near a station for the communte to Bangkok, the long ride and expected high cost of the communte and the inconvenience of not having a car once they reach Bangkok in order to get to work. I think the consumers that would actually make use of the lines, the van riders, will find the commute too costly.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that use the existing trains rather than using vans or driving themselves. As more lines are opened, the trains will quickly be filled (as seen on the ARL City Line).

If the trains were so cheap that all the people that are using vans and buses could afford to use them, then, as I said earlier, it would make them unusable.

At the moment, all the train lines are overflowing during peak times and often quite full out of peak. That indicates that the price is not too expensive.

I agree that the trains in Bangkok are crowded. This is easily remedied by installing more carriages: which no one cares to do. Traffic on the BTS and MRT currently is local. I suggest that movement on the new line from Nonthaburi , another province, to downtown bangkok will used sparsely by car owners for this long commute for the reasons I have already listed. It will be sparsely used by van riders because it is too expensive.

Installing more carriages and running more trains will cost more money.

That's the main reason it isn't being done.

There will come a tipping point where they will have to pay back the billions of debt both the BTS and MRT are in, instead of trousering the profits.

Watch how quickly the system goes into terminal decline once this inevitability happens.

[RubbaJohnny]

Bangkok desperately needs more mass transit

Is this just a false premise from a parrot presstitute unable to analyze complex issues?

Perhaps less people/

Other factors may include

Shorter journeys

Encourage regional 'HUBS"

More shift or flexible working hours

Tolls like London and Singapore

Ban cars only bikes and tuktuk public transport in certain areas

Remove parking from all new offices and condos in CBD etc

Enforce on street parking bus lanes etc

[planr]

Fares are have always been set to attract primarily the middle class and growth has proceeded accordingly. People pay a slight premium not be to stuck in traffic. Around 12.5%-15% of the fare is theoretically the profit for the operator. The ticketing framework is also set up as stand alone for that operator which adds to a slightly increased price.

The main way to reduce fares would be to have a proper integrated, multi-model ticketing platform so that people could travel on a bus, ferry & metro line or two and use the same ticket with a reduced cost than buying separate tickets for each journey. This has been promised but we are many years away from that. Think about the first visitor to BKK who decided to take the ARL, then the MRT and then the BTS to get to a hotel and ends up buying 3 different tickets!! A single operator, pref govt agency, running an integrated network would also be much more efficient.

1) Fares are absolutely apporpriate and could be higher. In the last five years, BTS ridership has increased by more than 12% per year and is now at record highs, MRT is similar.

2) OTP has funded a common ticket program. The original ETA for implementation was 2016, but the consultants have been asked to speed it up. My former boss who is leading this projects suggests they are aiming for late 2014... whether it happens at all is still anyone's guess, but the proper planning will at least be in place.

Perhaps carriages should be purchased until it is possible to occasionally sit when riding. Your global argument that the price is perfectly right because the train is always crowded so therefore it is not too expensive will then have to be replaced by something different.

That's simply not going to happen, as much as you or I might like it.

It boils down to economics. If the train isn't full, there is a mismatch between demand and pricing. If BTSC and BMCL had full control over their revenue management, prices in peak periods on both systems would be higher and then lower during mid-day, late and night, and perhaps weekends, to stimulate demand.

[Spare]

I find it more comfortable to travel around by car.

No need to pay fare, no need to queue, no need to wait, no need to squeeze between Farangs.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Spare

[whybother]

Who should pay for the new carriages? When they do finally add more carriages, I would suggest that they will be full, suggesting that the price isn't too expensive.

I suggest that the new line from Nonthaburi will be crowded when it's opened.

Perhaps carriages should be purchased until it is possible to occasionally sit when riding. Your global argument that the price is perfectly right because the train is always crowded so therefore it is not too expensive will then have to be replaced by something different.

And who should pay to purchase the new carriages? They certainly won't make enough money to purchase more if they are running the carriages half empty all a lot of the time.

I am not arguing that the price is perfectly right. I am arguing that for the number of trains they can afford to run, the price is not too expensive. That is shown by the fact that they are often over crowded. If it was too expensive, they would run empty. If it was too cheap, you'd have to wait an hour to get on.

They definitely need more lines and more carriages, but they need to be able to do that without going broke (either the company or the government).

[bangon04]

MRT.jpg

Hopefully, when projects like the MRT extension, to the Purple line and points beyond, is completed, more commuters will consider Mass transit.

I know many in my neighborhood can't wait!

If they can't even finish the Sukhumvit line skytrain by making sure each train has the right number of cars attached, so that people are not made to feel like peasants in a cattle truck while using it, then perhaps we should not have too much faith that the "experts" will complete their promised projects on time..

[tingtongteesood]

The vans are half the problem, they block 2 or 3 lanes of traffic often when they stop and are frequently in the way. Less vans and taxis and more proper busses so you don't have to wait 20 mins or more would be nice. Also better traffic lights operation so you don't have to waste 30 mins waiting to get through. And then there are those pesky express ways that can back traffic up for miles due to the weight of vehicles trying to push in front of each other during rush hours round the exit ramps, give them their own lane for exiting that they must stick to for at least 50m before merging wwith the other lanes instead of the multi lane free for all with everyone getting in each others ways...These would be a good start...

[Lakegeneve]

Fares are have always been set to attract primarily the middle class and growth has proceeded accordingly. People pay a slight premium not be to stuck in traffic. Around 12.5%-15% of the fare is theoretically the profit for the operator. The ticketing framework is also set up as stand alone for that operator which adds to a slightly increased price.

The main way to reduce fares would be to have a proper integrated, multi-model ticketing platform so that people could travel on a bus, ferry & metro line or two and use the same ticket with a reduced cost than buying separate tickets for each journey. This has been promised but we are many years away from that. Think about the first visitor to BKK who decided to take the ARL, then the MRT and then the BTS to get to a hotel and ends up buying 3 different tickets!! A single operator, pref govt agency, running an integrated network would also be much more efficient.

1) Fares are absolutely apporpriate and could be higher. In the last five years, BTS ridership has increased by more than 12% per year and is now at record highs, MRT is similar.

2) OTP has funded a common ticket program. The original ETA for implementation was 2016, but the consultants have been asked to speed it up. My former boss who is leading this projects suggests they are aiming for late 2014... whether it happens at all is still anyone's guess, but the proper planning will at least be in place.

Both major parties went to the 2011 election promising a common ticketing system by 2015. The current govt has reaffirmed that promise both in mid 2012 and earlier this year.

However, I can quote statements from govt officials & politicians from each & every year of 2007, 2008, 2009. 2010 & 2011 where it was promised that a common BTS & MRT ticketing platform would be introduced the "following year". (Pls don't aks me to go and trawl out all of the quotes..... )

In 2011, the SRT stated that they would introduce a common ticket with the MRT by 2012 which sort of went well.......no where.

More recently, we were to finally have the BTS & MRT common ticket by April 2011

Common ticket for Skytrain and subway: Trials in April aimed at future integrated fares, The Nation 03/01/11

BANGKOK: By April this year, the operators of Bangkok's biggest inner-city mass-transit systems, the Skytrain and the subway, will begin offering one card covering fares on both systems.

and then after the delayed introduction of Rabbit in May last year it was definitely going to be available to use on the MRT by Dec 2012. Guess what happened........

Again, earlier this year the Minister has stated that a common ticketing platform would start to be available by the end of 2013, http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9560000013665

We are slowly getting there and I don't doubt that in 5-8 years time a common ticketing platform will be available. As everybody knows, one has to be highly skeptical and cautious when stating commencement dates n all respects on the mass public transit front.

No matter when it is introduced we also have to also expect many problems and delays in implementation and outlay of the new ticketing platform as that is the general experience elsewhere. No doubt it will be even more so in the multi-model, numerous agency/company BKK context.

I do trust that your former boss is a very patient individual.