Thai editorial: A ghost reappears with awkward questions

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
A ghost reappears with awkward questions
The Nation

Thailand must account for the disappearance over a decade ago of Karen people seeking refuge from armed conflict on the border

BANGKOK: -- It was not exactly an outright accusation, but the request itself has sent a chill through the Thai government and the military.

There is new discussion about the fate of 55 ethnic Karen men who crossed into Ratchaburi's Suan Phung district in 2000 along with 300 villagers who were fleeing fighting between Thai and Burmese troops. Thai soldiers at the border separated the Karen men from the women and children. What happened to the 55 men has remained a mystery ever since.

This past week one of the Karen leaders, Johnny Htoo, returned from Sweden, where he has been living, to formally ask the Lawyers Council of Thailand to look into the case of the missing 55 men, who are now presumed dead.

In the late 1990s Johnny, together with his twin brother Luther, were leading a small band of armed Karen called God's Army. Their followers believed the twins possessed mystical powers that helped the rebel fighters in battle against Burmese troops.

Next to God's Army was another small band of armed guerrillas, the Vigorous Burmese Student Warriors (VBSW), who were thrust into the international spotlight after they seized the Burmese embassy in Bangkok in October 1999 and held several hostages while demanding that democracy be restored in their homeland. They quickly secured a deal with Thai authorities for a safe return to their base camp near that of God's Army.

During the stand-off at the Burmese embassy, the Thai government served as mediator and it emerged from the incident quite well in terms of public relations. Then-Interior chief Sanan Krachornprasart commented that the armed students who stormed the embassy were not "terrorists" but "fighting for democracy".

Some of the hostages yielded to "Stockholm syndrome", as seen in their tearful goodbyes to the VBSW as the rebels boarded Thai military helicopters bound for their camp.

MR Sukhumbhand Paripatra, now Bangkok's governor, led the Thai side in the negotiations, allowing the students to hold him in exchange for the release of the hostages. But while Sukhumbhand and his team congratulated themselves, the Thai First Army was busy coming up with ways to get back at the VBSW. It decided to shell the God's Army camp to flush out the student fighters who had stormed the embassy.

The mortars they sent into God's Army territory injured hundreds of villagers. From Ratchaburi Hospital, the VBSW demanded that the Thais stop shelling the Karen positions and that medical personnel be permitted to cross the border to look after the citizens wounded by Thai and Burmese shells. Nothing of the sort happened, and the Karen who could make it across the border were left to look after their own people with whatever meagre resources they had.

During that fiasco about 300 Karen crossed into Thailand to seek shelter. The Thai authorities removed 55 of the men from the group. Luther Htoo is asking Thailand about their whereabouts. Thailand owes him an answer.


-- The Nation 2013-10-11

[Chittychangchang]

that story sent a "chill" up my spine...

CCC

[Mampara]

We all have our suspicions about what happened to them,but we have no proof. but they say the wheel turns slowly but surly.

[mrtoad]

Will be interesting to see what the current Governement makes of this, and if the authorities will follow it up properly. I'd totally forgotten about the Htoo twins, but reading that certainly jogged my memory. Very sad story really.

[bangarang]

Thais and ghosts... will it ever end?

[hellodolly]

Thais and ghosts... will it ever end?

No ghost involved. Thailand at the time had a PM who had no problem killing people as an answer to a situation he couldn't handle. so long as he looked good at the time. He is still alive.

No Ghost

The big question is will the present government do any thing to solve this problem or just put it in the rice warehouses where things are already going rotten.

As long as the government is run by skype from Dubai I believe they will do nothing about it. Same as the innocent Muslims and falsely accused and shot drug suspects.

As an after thought did the families of those victims get money from the government for the death of those innocent victims of government policy? Or is that a red shirt thing?

[JoeThePoster]

Johnny & Luther Htoo

[Dr Robert]

“There is a time in the life of every boy when he for the first time takes the backward view of life. Perhaps that is the moment when he crosses the line into manhood. The boy is walking through the street of his town. He is thinking of the future and of the figure he will cut in the world. Ambitions and regrets awake within him. Suddenly something happens; he stops under a tree and waits as for a voice calling his name. Ghosts of old things creep into his consciousness; the voices outside of himself whisper a message concerning the limitations of life. From being quite sure of himself and his future he becomes not at all sure. If he be an imaginative boy a door is torn open and for the first time he looks out upon the world, seeing, as though they marched in procession before him, the countless figures of men who before his time have come out of nothingness into the world, lived their lives and again disappeared into nothingness. The sadness of sophistication has come to the boy. With a little gasp he sees himself as merely a leaf blown by the wind through the streets of his village. He knows that in spite of all the stout talk of his fellows he must live and die in uncertainty, a thing blown by the winds, a thing destined like corn to wilt in the sun.”

from Sherwood Anderson; A group of tales of Ohio small town life

[JJttttt1]

"There is new discussion about the fate of 55 ethnic Karen men who crossed into Ratchaburi's Suan Phung district in 2000 along with 300 villagers who were fleeing fighting between Thai and Burmese troops."

This is a lie and a perfect example of manipulation by media. In reality Burmese and Thai troops were fighting TOGETHER against so-called "God's army" (terrorist organization) - whose members crossed a Thai-Burmese border with weapon in hands. These 55 karens were not innocent civilians but guerrillas, who started a real local war.

If you take a gun to start a war you should be aware of consequences. People who take hostages for whatever reason or goal should be executed by the court trial. No exceptions.

But in modern media left-wing discourse the weaker party of the conflict is always right, nevertheless of facts.

[indyuk]

Thais and ghosts... will it ever end?

No ghost involved. Thailand at the time had a PM who had no problem killing people as an answer to a situation he couldn't handle. so long as he looked good at the time. He is still alive.

No Ghost

The big question is will the present government do any thing to solve this problem or just put it in the rice warehouses where things are already going rotten.

As long as the government is run by skype from Dubai I believe they will do nothing about it. Same as the innocent Muslims and falsely accused and shot drug suspects.

As an after thought did the families of those victims get money from the government for the death of those innocent victims of government policy? Or is that a red shirt thing?

There's your sting in the tail again 'dolly'. You seem to have negative views about anyone that doesn't fall into you 'lovey' category. Thanks to the Redshirts we now have a formidable government and a militant opposition led by a failure. With such strong views and energy you would be better turning your attention to building a credible alternative political party so that Thailand can get down to credible government with a credible opposition in the house. Then Thailand will have interesting elections, much more fair play and less corruption.

[khunken]

"There is new discussion about the fate of 55 ethnic Karen men who crossed into Ratchaburi's Suan Phung district in 2000 along with 300 villagers who were fleeing fighting between Thai and Burmese troops."

This is a lie and a perfect example of manipulation by media. In reality Burmese and Thai troops were fighting TOGETHER against so-called "God's army" (terrorist organization) - whose members crossed a Thai-Burmese border with weapon in hands. These 55 karens were not innocent civilians but guerrillas, who started a real local war.

If you take a gun to start a war you should be aware of consequences. People who take hostages for whatever reason or goal should be executed by the court trial. No exceptions.

But in modern media left-wing discourse the weaker party of the conflict is always right, nevertheless of facts.

Well if you're going to call the Op a lie it might be an idea to get your own facts right.

Yes the Thais & Burmese military were fighting together but it was against the Karen not just 'God's army'. The Karen are themselves divided into at least two separate factions - one Christian & one Buddist. Neither are or were 'terrorists' a term that one violent group likes to call their opposing violent group.

If people who take hostages should be executed (the hang-em high 'thinking') then so should the Thai army who took the 55 hostages never to be seen again. If they were guerrillas (& you provide no proof of that) they were fighting against the Burmese military not the Thai military. I suppose to your way of thinking it doesn't matter how prisoners are treated in wartime. Would gassing them pass your 'standard'?

[hellodolly]

Thais and ghosts... will it ever end?

No ghost involved. Thailand at the time had a PM who had no problem killing people as an answer to a situation he couldn't handle. so long as he looked good at the time. He is still alive.

No Ghost

The big question is will the present government do any thing to solve this problem or just put it in the rice warehouses where things are already going rotten.

As long as the government is run by skype from Dubai I believe they will do nothing about it. Same as the innocent Muslims and falsely accused and shot drug suspects.

As an after thought did the families of those victims get money from the government for the death of those innocent victims of government policy? Or is that a red shirt thing?

There's your sting in the tail again 'dolly'. You seem to have negative views about anyone that doesn't fall into you 'lovey' category. Thanks to the Redshirts we now have a formidable government and a militant opposition led by a failure. With such strong views and energy you would be better turning your attention to building a credible alternative political party so that Thailand can get down to credible government with a credible opposition in the house. Then Thailand will have interesting elections, much more fair play and less corruption.

Well I do have negative views about scum and there supporters.

I have retired to Thailand and plan on dying here and it hurts me to see such blatent in your face corruption all aimed at en riching one man. There are many supporters around him getting scraps from the table anxious for the man to cut the middle women out (Yingluck) and really open up the gates on the trough and they are not all Thai's waiting for the gates to become flood gates with no effort to check them.

[JJttttt1]

yeah this is a typical leftist answer. "The Nation" newspaper could lie as much as it wants but if somebody shows an opposite opinion, he should show you proofs. Where? on this forum?

1) The nation wrote that "fighting between Thai and Burmese troops" It's a lie, even you admitted this

2) "Yes the Thais & Burmese military were fighting together but it was against the Karen not just 'God's army'." But you didn't write why did Thai and Burmese army fought against them. I will tell you: because of terror against civilians and government institutions by Karen terrorists.

3)"Neither are or were 'terrorists'" In Wikipedia "Terrorism is the systematic use of violent terror as a means of coercion" so Karen's "god's army" perfectly fits in this definition.

4)"If people who take hostages should be executed (the hang-em high 'thinking') then so should the Thai army who took the 55 hostages never to be seen again" wiki: "A hostage is a person or entity which is held by one of two belligerent parties to the other or seized as security for the carrying out of an agreement, or as a preventive measure against certain acts of war" So Thai army didn't take hostages, but Karen terrorists did. So they indeed should be executed, as any person who threatens to kill a human if his demands are not met.

5) "they were fighting against the Burmese military not the Thai military" they illegally crossed the border of a neighbor state with weapon in there hands, on normal language it's called invasion and any army should protect the country and do whatever it takes to eliminate invaders.

6)"I suppose to your way of thinking it doesn't matter how prisoners are treated in wartime." If Burmese army would invade Thailand or vice versa - it's a war and war prisoners should be treated according to Geneva convention, but "god's army" was a terrorist gang. A state should not negotiate anything with terrorists, but execute them.

[indyuk]

Will be interesting to see what the current Governement makes of this, and if the authorities will follow it up properly. I'd totally forgotten about the Htoo twins, but reading that certainly jogged my memory. Very sad story really.

When it comes to disenfranchised persons the other ethnic minorities of Thailand who have no ID or human rights assurances because they are kept stateless while Thailand seems to wait for

some benefactor to come and take them all away.

Not even the Hmong of the Phetchabun Mountains were spared. They are Thai by by birth in Thailand and by being the real owners of the ancestral native Lands which are inside Thailand. They were apparently driven off their lands by the Thai Army many many years ago.

Even during recent decades, disappearances, extrajudicial, killings and land grabs were not rare in Thailand.

Its the old Asian tragedy of pushing, oppressing and killing until the great and the good got what they wanted. All of this is just the grist of the mill and may continue forever. However if I were Thai I would want to see native rights reviewed and assessed by the government.

However I love Thailand and it's institutions, warts and all, and live here in happiness and obedience instead of nursing my pity.

Edited October 11, 2013 by indyuk

[A1Str8]

How come everyone seems to be so educated about thai politics yet the truth is they dont know sh_t about it.

[bangarang]

Thais and ghosts... will it ever end?

No ghost involved. Thailand at the time had a PM who had no problem killing people as an answer to a situation he couldn't handle. so long as he looked good at the time. He is still alive.

No Ghost

The big question is will the present government do any thing to solve this problem or just put it in the rice warehouses where things are already going rotten.

As long as the government is run by skype from Dubai I believe they will do nothing about it. Same as the innocent Muslims and falsely accused and shot drug suspects.

As an after thought did the families of those victims get money from the government for the death of those innocent victims of government policy? Or is that a red shirt thing?

I know, Just the headline gets me. lol... Seems like ghosts seem to be a trendy topic lately. There may not be any actually ghosts talked about in the article, but still manages to slip in. Terrible whats happening though.

[Arkady]

Sounds like something from the Serbs' ethnic cleansing manual.