Help For Playwright

[Byron]

Hi all. I'm writing a radio play about a farang expatriate woman who's come to live in BKK with her husband (also a farang) and I need some help with my research.

I'd like to know what it's like being an expat wife in the land of smiles, especially if you're not working. How do you keep yourself busy? What are the pleasures and frustrations of living in the Big Mango, especially if your husband works and you don't?

In the play, the woman becomes obsessed with a beautiful young Thai man which is the catalyst for the drama. Do you know of any stories of farang wives having affairs with Thai men?

I'm trying to paint a fairly accurate picture of what it's like for the character in my story, so any thoughts, ideas, experiences, etc would be much appreciated.

[khall64au]

Your play would probably be more convincing if the husband also was having a secret affair with a Thai woman- I have plenty of factual stories on this aspect of farang couples living in LOS. Never actually met any married farang women having affairs with Thai men.

[thaibebop]

I think a better story would be a farand woman whose marriage failed and she goes to Thailand with friends and meets a Thai guy who she falls for.

[khall64au]

I think a better story would be a farand woman whose marriage failed and she goes to Thailand with friends and meets a Thai guy who she falls for.

Good thinking Bops -all the research material for that plot is here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65986

[thaibebop]

I think a better story would be a farand woman whose marriage failed and she goes to Thailand with friends and meets a Thai guy who she falls for.

Good thinking Bops -all the research material for that plot is here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65986

Aw, I was hoping for a happy love story. Like a romantic comedy with a dash of drama.

[khall64au]

I think a better story would be a farand woman whose marriage failed and she goes to Thailand with friends and meets a Thai guy who she falls for.

Good thinking Bops -all the research material for that plot is here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65986

Aw, I was hoping for a happy love story. Like a romantic comedy with a dash of drama.

That's what I meant.........

[thaibebop]

I think a better story would be a farand woman whose marriage failed and she goes to Thailand with friends and meets a Thai guy who she falls for.

Good thinking Bops -all the research material for that plot is here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65986

Aw, I was hoping for a happy love story. Like a romantic comedy with a dash of drama.

That's what I meant.........

You're sick, you know that?

[Byron]

Thanks for the ideas. Yes, there's lots of material on these boards already - plenty of juicy stuff about relationships gone wrong and the errant ways of Thai men.

What I'm trying to do is make sure her motivation for trying to have the affair is realistic. I say 'trying' because the man is actually gay - it's the enusing friendship that causes the problems.

Basically, her husband is already a frequent visitor to Nana, which has just become obvious to her. It's not the sole motivation she tries to find another man but it spurs her to make a move on a guy she has secretly being admiring for ages. The husbands visiting Nana thing is an issue that interests me - are there any wives who accept that's a temptation and let their husbands get on with it - a kind of unspoken agreement? I know most women wouldn't even contemplate that, but I've known of marriages where it's pretty obvious the man is playing away and yet the marriage, on the surface at least, remains intact.

Any ideas, experiences that fit in with this?

[Sir Burr]

Anyone else think that Byron could be TGS?

[Byron]

???

[sbk]

Well "byron" , its not very realistic since Thai men are generally not "in the closet" and are unlikely to have an affair with a woman. May I suggest you try asking the people in the gay section of the forum if they find this scenario realistic in any way.

[Byron]

Well "byron" , its not very realistic since Thai men are generally not "in the closet" and are unlikely to have an affair with a woman. May I suggest you try asking the people in the gay section of the forum if they find this scenario realistic in any way.

They don't actually have an affair as the man comes out to her fairly swiftly - I'm aware of the point you made already. It's her motivation for chatting up another guy that I want to be realistic.

[sbk]

Usually, its pretty obvious. Most women can spot a gay Thai man.

[too true]

Usually, its pretty obvious. Most women can spot a gay Thai man.

Not so sure about that.

Don't want to get into the "well I know....." thing that this forum tends to get up in arms about.... but although katoeys are certainly obvious, I've met more than just a few Thai men who are gay and I would never have guessed it by their mannerisms and talk and dress. They're just like "normal guys", if you know what I mean. I think that there are lots of Thai men in the closet.

How bout a movie about a Thai man who's not a drunk lazy womanizer? But then I suppose that would fall under the sci-fi/fantasy genre instead of romantic comedy .....

Sorry. It's Friday and it feels like this week's gone on forever, and I feel like a bit of teasing. I would think that in terms of believability, most foreign husbands don't see Thai men as even a remote threat to their foreign marriages the way women see Thai women as perhaps being a threat or at the very least a temptation. Strange, isn't it, cus as so many of us know, there are some wonderfully lovely things about Thai men, and if I were married to a western man here in Thailand and fancied taking on a "gick", a Thai man would be a perfect choice for a little fling.

[Jasmine]

I would think that in terms of believability, most foreign husbands don't see Thai men as even a remote threat to their foreign marriages the way women see Thai women as perhaps being a threat or at the very least a temptation.

Oooh no I disagree

I met quite a few expat women who at first swore they didn't find Thai men attractive but after some time succumbed to their charms!!!!

Picture the scenario...you've been sh*****g some big hairy bloke for years and then along comes this smooth skinned, hairless cutie

I reckon the wife's motivation is just that it's a mans world in Thailand and she gets so peed off she thinks 'sod it' and decides to have her own bit of fun.

Also it's that notion of 'the other'. Have you read DH Lawrence The Virgin and the Gypsy Byron? That kind of thing

[girlx]

my ladyboy pal insists every thai man is just a drink away from being gay... and given the long list of very straight (seeming) thai men he has slept with, then he may just be right. thais are some of the most androgynous people on earth.

also, it's quite normal for some girls to fall for gay men. happens to me all the time. gay guys tend to have more style and be easier to talk to than straight guys, which gets me every time. i have not fallen for a thai gay man yet but i suppose it could happen.

i do not know of one single farang female who is cool with her man getting it on the side- i might tell myself and him that i could be, but in reality i know i could not.

i also was not the least bit attracted to asian men until i spent some time in thailand and now i love them.

[LaoPo]

Thanks for the ideas. Yes, there's lots of material on these boards already - plenty of juicy stuff about relationships gone wrong and the errant ways of Thai men.

What I'm trying to do is make sure her motivation for trying to have the affair is realistic. I say 'trying' because the man is actually gay - it's the enusing friendship that causes the problems.

Basically, her husband is already a frequent visitor to Nana, which has just become obvious to her. It's not the sole motivation she tries to find another man but it spurs her to make a move on a guy she has secretly being admiring for ages. The husbands visiting Nana thing is an issue that interests me - are there any wives who accept that's a temptation and let their husbands get on with it - a kind of unspoken agreement? I know most women wouldn't even contemplate that, but I've known of marriages where it's pretty obvious the man is playing away and yet the marriage, on the surface at least, remains intact.

Any ideas, experiences that fit in with this?

Ideas? yes...experiences? don't tell you

Serious though: Forgive me, but the fact that 'your' husband is in fact gay AND that he frequents the Nana-district is a little odd in real BKK life I would think.

As far as I know, Nana is a place where straight men go (for girls and Ladyboys), not gay, or am I wrong?

Hmmm...maybe the gay section would know better.

But, thinking about it, why don't you let 'your' husband have an affair with a Ladyboy....makes the play even more exciting.... ..meaning: the wife thinks her husband has an affair with a girl...

Nong Tum, a very famous (former) Thai boxer, in various stages of 'her' life:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chan...llery/thirdsex/

Hey, maybe I should write a play too

LaoPo

Edited April 29, 2006 by LaoPo

[Byron]

Thanks for the interesting feedback all.

Just to clarify the idea as it stands, as I think there's been a little confusion (my fault, probably)...

.. the farang woman, tired of her husband's suspected exploits in Nana, decides to make a move on a man she has admired for a while and the man turns out to be gay.

That's not the whole story, of course, as that would be very boring. I just want to get the motivation right for woman wanting a fling in the first place. The gay thing is quite peripheral.

[LaoPo]

Thanks for the interesting feedback all.

Just to clarify the idea as it stands, as I think there's been a little confusion (my fault, probably)...

.. the farang woman, tired of her husband's suspected exploits in Nana, decides to make a move on a man she has admired for a while and the man turns out to be gay.

That's not the whole story, of course, as that would be very boring. I just want to get the motivation right for woman wanting a fling in the first place. The gay thing is quite peripheral.

I see, misunderstood you indeed than; sorry and forget about my input

Good Luck with the 'plot'

LaoPo

[Byron]

Thanks for the interesting feedback all.

Just to clarify the idea as it stands, as I think there's been a little confusion (my fault, probably)...

.. the farang woman, tired of her husband's suspected exploits in Nana, decides to make a move on a man she has admired for a while and the man turns out to be gay.

That's not the whole story, of course, as that would be very boring. I just want to get the motivation right for woman wanting a fling in the first place. The gay thing is quite peripheral.

I see, misunderstood you indeed than; sorry and forget about my input

Good Luck with the 'plot'

LaoPo

No need to apologise - I thought your ladyboy idea was cool. Maybe you should have a go too

[Sheryl]

Thanks for the interesting feedback all.

Just to clarify the idea as it stands, as I think there's been a little confusion (my fault, probably)...

.. the farang woman, tired of her husband's suspected exploits in Nana, decides to make a move on a man she has admired for a while and the man turns out to be gay.

That's not the whole story, of course, as that would be very boring. I just want to get the motivation right for woman wanting a fling in the first place. The gay thing is quite peripheral.

The motivation is abundant. The woman feels empty and alienated. She has no identity of her own anymore (should probably include what she did as a career before coming to LOS, why she is unable to get work in her field here); her marriage is a farce; all of her social associates are via her husband and just see her as a tag-along; and she is in a foreign country, away from family and her own culture. She feels utterly lost and identity-less, and desperately needs to find someone she can relate to and a way of involving herself in this new, foreign culture. A Thai man seems to serve both pueposes at once. Plus, an affair will help heal her bruised ego and doubts about her own physical attractiveness caused by her husband's philandering.

Even though the guy turns out to be gay and thus the affair doesn't come off, I think you should let them form a deep platonic bond nonetheless which helps her get back on her feet emotionally, start to understand and enjoy Thai culture and make real friends of her own here, and finally get up the emotional strength to leave her husband. (In other words, a happy ending....)

[mark45y]

I know three married ladies having affairs with Thai men. One of the ladies is Farang. Two of the ladies are having affairs with their Tuk tuk/rental car drivers and one Thai lady keeps a guy on the side in an apartment.

The Tuk tuk driver seems to be a logical choice because of availability.

Lady boys are not a good choice because they like men sexually and a lot of them are non functional because of hormones.

If a man lives in Bangkok Nana plaza would be about the last place in the world he would choose to hang out. There are so many better choices gay or straight.

I don’t think Western woman can spot a gay Thai guy. This would be an interesting post for the gay forum. I think Thai women can spot them 100% of the time. Just from my few humorous experiences with my GF pointing out gays to a couple of Farang lady friends at an after hours club. But we all had a few drinks at the time.

Physically I think Thai guys are a lot more attractive to modern Western women and the feminine aspects of their nature only make them more attractive. Thai guys smell a lot better and there is little truth to the stereotypes about size. Thai men don’t seem to mind a few extra pounds on the Farang ladies.

Thai men seem to be pretty cool with being around the husband. The driver that I know that is having an affair with the Thai lady drove the four of us around for a week of sightseeing without causing any problems.

I actually spent a sleepless night wondering if I should tell the Farang but I decided he was a grown man and needed to figure out things like that for himself.

There a number of clubs (not at all cheap) frequented by Hi-so women in Bangkok where Thai and Farang women pick up, for pay, good looking young Thai guys. This seems to be a more logical choice than an affair because of less emotional problems with pay for play. The only reason I know about the clubs is I knew the lady that owned the cleaning business that serviced them. I doubt that they are common knowledge to most people. I doubt if you could get into visit one of these clubs. Maybe one of the ladies on TV could help you out.

Of course it is just my experience but I have never heard of a Farang male married to a Farang women being jealous of a Thai guy. Maybe one of the ladies can correct me but I don’t think it happens.

If this was Alaska or Bulgaria maybe. But for gosh sake this is Thailand.

I think it is an odd circumstance that Western men are more attracted to Thai women than Western women and Western women are more attracted to Thai men than Western men.

It is even funnier that the reasons are exactly the same.

[Byron]

Sheryll - that's the kind of thing I was thinking about but you've chrystalised it perfectly, so thanks v much for that I think it would be more interesting to explore the non-stereotypical line. I've just done a rough plot and there's quite a lot of potential there already.

Mark45y - it seems that this kind of thing happens more than is generally acknowledged. It's interesting that western men don't really consider Thai men a threat...I wonder if this will change. Thanks for your comments.

People on this forum have been really helpful so far and there are some insightful posts here. Any more thoughts and ideas would be much appreciated.

[HarryHerb]

Byron, who is this play for? Are you writing it for fun, or have you been commisioned? Is it a radio play, screenplay, or theatre piece? I think the intended audience will probably have some bearing on the plot - is this aimed at world-weary expats here, or a naive western public who will believe any old sex tourism / ladyboy rubbish about Thailand?

Is the main figure going to be the female character, i.e. will the story be told from her point of view?

Personally I don't find the whole 'turns out to be gay' storyline credible at all. I think straight women are much more tuned in to sexual orientation than straight men. Sheryl beautifully articulates all the motivation you need for the affair above - and there are any number of other twists in the tale you could add, depending on how cynical you want to be...

[Byron]

Byron, who is this play for? Are you writing it for fun, or have you been commisioned? Is it a radio play, screenplay, or theatre piece? I think the intended audience will probably have some bearing on the plot - is this aimed at world-weary expats here, or a naive western public who will believe any old sex tourism / ladyboy rubbish about Thailand?

Is the main figure going to be the female character, i.e. will the story be told from her point of view?

Personally I don't find the whole 'turns out to be gay' storyline credible at all. I think straight women are much more tuned in to sexual orientation than straight men. Sheryl beautifully articulates all the motivation you need for the affair above - and there are any number of other twists in the tale you could add, depending on how cynical you want to be...

The play is being written for a BBC radio 4/world service audience but hasn't been comissioned. The main character in the story is indeed the female farang, told from her POV, and the relationship she has with the Thai man will remain platonic. She just thinks, initially, it might end up as something more.

I tend to agree with some other posters that, while women may be able to accurately spot a gay Thai man a lot of the time, you can never be 100% sure - it's the same for western gay men too. In any case, the whole 'turns out be gay' thing is a minor plot point and not the pivot for the story. It's interesting to note people's different perceptions but, as yet, I don't see any reason to change it.

I fully agree with your last point.

Edited April 29, 2006 by Byron

[skylar]

You have to consider how this farang woman is going to meet this Thai guy. The expat world is pretty isolating and if she's just moved and has nothing to keep her busy, her social contact with Thai people would be fairly limited... how about she gets Thai lessons and falls for her handsome Thai teacher... or a Japanese student... or something... or she meets a Eurasian guy (maybe a little too improbable).

The Nana thing is a pretty cliched and is a bit old and tired. Prostitutes has been done to death, but an affair with someone like a Thai work colleague is more interesting, because they are a part of Thai society and have to appear to operate according to Thai social mores to keep their position in society. It's particularly interesting since gossip makes the Thai world tick!

If you want to read a hi-so love story, read Behind the Painting, by Siburapha.

Some Asians like farang and vice versa precisely because they are different to themselves.

[khall64au]

Thanks for the interesting feedback all.

Just to clarify the idea as it stands, as I think there's been a little confusion (my fault, probably)...

.. the farang woman, tired of her husband's suspected exploits in Nana, decides to make a move on a man she has admired for a while and the man turns out to be gay.

That's not the whole story, of course, as that would be very boring. I just want to get the motivation right for woman wanting a fling in the first place. The gay thing is quite peripheral.

Sooooooooooo... your OP went something like this:

"Hi all. I'm writing a radio play about a farang expatriate woman who's come to live in BKK with her husband (also a farang) and I need some help with my research.

I'd like to know what it's like being an expat wife in the land of smiles, especially if you're not working. How do you keep yourself busy? What are the pleasures and frustrations of living in the Big Mango, especially if your husband works and you don't?

In the play, the woman becomes obsessed with a beautiful young Thai man which is the catalyst for the drama. Do you know of any stories of farang wives having affairs with Thai men?

I'm trying to paint a fairly accurate picture of what it's like for the character in my story, so any thoughts, ideas, experiences, etc would be much appreciated"

What, exactly, are you fishing for?

[Byron]

What, exactly, are you fishing for?

I'm not "fishing" for anything. This is a genuine enquiry to help with my research and most people have been helpful so far. The thread has gone off at a tangent that I'm quite happy with, so I wasn't going to restate the OP. But if anyone would like to contribute anything constructive along the lines of the OP, I'd be happy to read it.

[Jasmine]

I'd like to know what it's like being an expat wife in the land of smiles, especially if you're not working. How do you keep yourself busy? What are the pleasures and frustrations of living in the Big Mango, especially if your husband works and you don't?

I never considered myself a proper expat being on a TEFL teachers salary when I lived in BKK but I attended some ante-natal classes with real expats.

There are lots of specific groups for women. British/American/Aus/NZ. Would be worth running a search on expat womens groups to see the kind of activities they get up to. Mah Jong, Tennis and quilting seem popular. Seriously

If you're not into that kind of scene it's probably excrutiatingly boring, an affair would liven things up! You kind of have to fit the mould and I definitely didn't fit in to that ex-pat scene at the ante-natal classes!!!

I guess women have affairs because they get bored. (Probably after some time into the marriage. I'm not sure about the age of your protagonists but I imagined them as early 40's. ) And for all the reasons Sheryl states.

[HarryHerb]

You have to consider how this farang woman is going to meet this Thai guy.

I don't know about Bangkok, but out in the sticks, I'd say I spend about 95% per cent of my time with men, Thai or farang. Female company is the one thing I miss the most in Thailand. It's pretty impossible to make (real) friends with local women; and (normal) foreign females are thin on the ground.

Men, however, are everywhere! And mostly pretty friendly. I think it won't be hard at all for this character to meet a Thai guy, especially if she shuns the organised 'spouses' coffee morning / charity event planner / croquet club' set and hangs out on her own. It'll be more a case of fighting them off with a stick