raro going Linux - WINE or CrossoverOffice?

[raro]

Installed Ubuntu 13.04 64bit yesterday and overall quite happy with it. Cannot say the computer is significantly faster now but I had enough with some M$ issues.

Anyways, there is at least one Microsoft product I like to keep: MS Money.

I tried WINE, but it doesn't run MS Money properly. MSM opens and closes with an error message.

I tried to install CrossoverOffice, but the install didn't work. I reckon it has to do with the 64 bit version of Ubuntu.

Any advice is much appreciated!

[Phil Conners]

There are so many free virtual machines for Linux that I don't see the market for Crossover.

Wine is quick and dirty, but if it doesn't do the job look into installing VirtualBox. This is owned by Oracle, is free to use and makes you a 99.99% compatible windows environment.

[raro]

Just realized that I am the market for something like Crossover. Using VM means I have to install windows inside Linux and this is exactly what I do not want. Then I can stay directly on windows without the hassle learning Linux.

[thaimite]

Welcome to Ubuntu. If you had waited a day or 2 you would have had the newer 13,10 install, but never worry. 13.04 is good. I hope you continue to enjoy the experience. I know many people complain about Unity but now I am used to it find it much superior to the Windows style menu system.

I agree with Phil Conners about Wine, but I do use it for Kindle Reader and one or two other small apps like Irfanview.

I use vmware Player for other M$ products that I must have. I Used to use VirtualBox but discarded it about 2 years ago, after finding Vmware much quicker but a little more bloated. However I know these 2 companies are constantly trying to out do each other so I suspect either will be good.

According to this link many versions of MSMoney run quite well under wine.

Edit Links added.

Have you thought about changing? check out these links. I only use OpenOffice Calc for my financial tracking so I cannot comment on any of them.

http://www.linuxalt.com/linux-alternatives-to/windows/microsoft_money.html

http://zenhabits.net/6-great-free-alternatives-to-quicken-ms-money/

[Phil Conners]

According to http://www.codeweavers.com/products/faq/differences/ crossover seems to essentially be a commercial version of Wine with a few extra tools thrown in at $29.95 (900 baht) per month. I would not bother.

[Richard-BKK]

Wine works pretty well for me, but everything depends on which very of Wine you’re running. Also Wine can use original Microsoft Windows DLL files or the compatible versions that come with Wine itself. The compatible Wine DLL files are often not good enough for running Microsoft programs.

You can install some Microsoft DLL files by installing Winetricks. I do not know what is needed to run MS Money, so you have to search for that a bit. You can often find an indication what is needed by running the program in Terminal… the text in the terminal will reveal what is needed.

[raro]

still installing windows in the BOX. Takes ages.

Crossover is 40 USD per year. That's 100 Baht per month. Affordable in my books IF it works.

[aarn]

I would suggest get Lub 13.10 via torrent from distrowatch (should be available on 18 Oct after midday), install over 13.04, then get the lastest wine (google it, probably as a .tar.gz which you download, R click, and install with GDebi package installer). I will be doing this. AA

[AyG]

The OP doesn't mention which version of Money he's using. Perhaps trying an older version would help? One source (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=79) suggests that the 2005 version runs just fine under Wine.

[keeniau96]

You are on the right track. I have been using Linux for six year now and it only gets better. The only thing that I really missed was MS Money, but Virtual Box took care of that. I did try Wine but just too wobbly; that was some years ago and it is better now but I still don't care for it. VirtualBox is simple to install in Linux (I use Mint, have tried Ubuntu and others) and of course it is totally free (I have used VMware but prefer VB). Once installed you have a virtual computer so now install the operating system; WinXP works very well for Money, and Win7 may or may not. So now you have a virtual computer with an operating system, only have to install Money. Note that a part of the VB setup creates a shared folder to pass data back and forth between the virtual and the real computers. May sound complex but very simple in actual usage.

[raro]

I would suggest get Lub 13.10 via torrent from distrowatch (should be available on 18 Oct after midday), install over 13.04, then get the lastest wine (google it, probably as a .tar.gz which you download, R click, and install with GDebi package installer). I will be doing this. AA

this is exactly the kind of answer that made me stay away from Linux...No offense, you were trying to help, but I didn't understand a word of what you were saying.

[raro]

ok....somehow CrossOver made it on my computer.

I install LINE messenger and MS Money.

LINE runs seemingly ok, but after a restart it is gone. Need to reinstall it every time I restart the comp?

Money has disappeared.

In CrossOver is a messsage saying "It appears you have installed Windows applications, but no shortcuts have been created. Select Tools -> Manage Bottles"

I cannot find this Tools menu whatsoever...

[A1Str8]

I would suggest get Lub 13.10 via torrent from distrowatch (should be available on 18 Oct after midday), install over 13.04, then get the lastest wine (google it, probably as a .tar.gz which you download, R click, and install with GDebi package installer). I will be doing this. AA

this is exactly the kind of answer that made me stay away from Linux...No offense, you were trying to help, but I didn't understand a word of what  you were saying. 

 

Lmfao this one was good.

[Richard-BKK]

ok....somehow CrossOver made it on my computer.

I install LINE messenger and MS Money.

LINE runs seemingly ok, but after a restart it is gone. Need to reinstall it every time I restart the comp?

Money has disappeared.

In CrossOver is a messsage saying "It appears you have installed Windows applications, but no shortcuts have been created. Select Tools -> Manage Bottles"

I cannot find this Tools menu whatsoever...

I think that Crossover installed the LINE messenger and MS Money okay, but the problem is that you use Ubuntu. Ubuntu uses a out of the standard graphical user interface, as Grossover currently only supports Gnome and KDE it was unable to create a menu entry and a desktop icon for your installed programs.

If you go to /home/your-name/.crossover you will find a folder called drive_C in which you will find in the program files folder the programs you have installed.

You need to consult your Crossover manual or search the internet on how-to create a startup link on your desktop.

[raro]

checked immediately....but cannot find this folder.

There is a hidden folder called .cxoffice and in there are further folders that refer to the programs I installed but when I click the .exe files the crossover installer starts. A bit like running in circles...

[Phil Conners]

Please let us not succumb to the usual "your problem is you chose the wrong distro" solutions.

Out of pity I installed MS Money - ms website, download, run using wine program loader - and as you reported, it seemed to install fine but no trace of it. Searching a bit I found it under ~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files (x86)/Microsoft Money Plus/MNYCoreFiles/msmoney.exe. ~ in Linux means your home directory, and files/directories starting with . (as .wine above) means it's default hidden. On the command line that means you'd have to use -a to override the hiding and show the file/directory, unfortunately the default filemanager from Ubuntu doesn't have any option to show hidden files, but that's another problem.

So when I tried to run the msmoney.exe it actually started ok, until I tried to open a file, at which time it crashed. The crash debug info offered by Wine suggests that it needs MSIE to run.

A Google search for this problem confirms this, but suggest using gnucash or kmymoney instead. I'm not a msmoney user so I can't test it, but it seems like these are drop-in replacements for msmoney.

Alternatively you could install VirtualBox and run it in that. Yes I know you said you didn't want to use Windows anymore, so don't use msmoney anymore too. the 'ms' in msmoney means Windows. You can't both have your cake and eat it.

[raro]

So basically you are saying that it doesn't work and I use the wrong distro as I cannot unhide directories in Ubuntu

Guess I have to revert to the VM solution. On the long run I will use the Linux equivalent of MS money but I need the info in the money file for the migration.

And no, there is apparently no tool available to import money files into kmymoney unless you want to export all accounts (50 or so in my case) one by one from msm to .qif and import one by one into the Linux equivalent.

The other indispensable program is line messenger to stay connected with my numerous gigs.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Phil Conners]

No, you can just use another filemanager. Like I've said before, a distro is just a preset collection of software packages. If you don't like the composition you can just install something else. It's not like the difference between Windows and Apple.

Use your phone to chat with gigs. Or better, don't chat, do.

50 accounts? You Sheldon Cooper, you.

[JSixpack]

Switch to GnuCash?

[Richard-BKK]

Probably the easiest way to go is to install Gnome or KDE on your Ubuntu system, and use Gnome desktop or KDE instead of Ubuntu Unity.... How to install Gnome or KDE on your Ubuntu system you can search the Internet....

I'm told that the KDE desktop is more user friendly for MS Windows users...

[Phil Conners]

So basically you are saying that it doesn't work and I use the wrong distro as I cannot unhide directories in Ubuntu

Actually you can. I just found by coincidence that if you hit ctrl-H in Nautilus it shows hidden files. Woulda been real clever of them to add it to the properties page so it's clear it's an option.

[raro]

ok, one week in and time for a first verdict!

Overall Linux is faster than windows. One thing I noticed is, when you just suspend your computer under Linux it also takes ages to wake up again - same problem I had under win7.

The advantage is, Linux shuts down and starts faster from zero.

Some applications - skype for instance - run noticeably faster under Linux.

I gave up on VM as it brought my computer to a grinding halt - both the Linux and the win7 in the VM. Have an old laptop reactivated to run MS Money until there is a solution to get my data into KMyMoney.

[Phil Conners]

Actually there are two "suspension modes" avilable, hibernate and suspend.

The difference is suspend essentially just freeze the cpu, whereas hibernate writes the current memory image to disk before completely shutting off the pc. If you disconnect the pc or have a power failure during suspension you will have to reboot from scratch when you switch it on again, with hybernate you an leave the pc switched off forever. Normally laptops use suspension as only a small amout of power is needed during suspend so it'll normally be fine even for several days on the battery.

Suspend is virtually instant whereas hibernate takes the time it takes to write an image the size of RAM you have in your pc, for example 4GB, when it hibernates, and read the same 4GB when it wakes up. That takes some time. I suspect your PC under windows was using suspend and under linux hibernate, that would explain the difference.

[Phil Conners]

Well by now I've completely moved to Linux on my main desktop (Ubuntu 13.10 with Unity). This is an i5-2400 with 8G RAM, a 60GB SSD and a 1TB WD Blue for the pron stash. It's quite unlikely I'm going to use more than the 8G but still, Linux likes to have swap, so I let it have an 8G swap on the WD, the rest is for /home. Everything else on the primary SSD. Even if this CPU is now a couple of years old this is a really fast workstation.

I still have a number of annoyances, for example:

• Occasionally keyboard and mouse goes wonky, fixed by logout/login again.
• No thumbnails in Nautilus viewing photos over SMB mount, (works over NFS mount though)
• Can't remove the global toolbar (i.e. rather than have the File Edit .. etc menus on the top of the screen I'd prefer having it with each individual window. Just a matter of preference). This is apparenly a bug being worked on.
• Can't change language with alt-ctrl (apparently known bug being fixed)
• Sooo many application freezes and crashes ("Sorry, Ubuntu 13.10 has experienced an internal error.") Particularly but not only the Ubuntu software center.
• Keepass2 under Mono full of bugs, for example try to select and drag more than one key from one directory to another, it will only move one.. KeepassX can only use version 1 keepass databases, so means you'd also have touse keypassx on android and other appliances
• DNS resolution suddenly went down, had to reboot to get it back
• Look and feel - will always be subjective, but I think Windows (7) still has the edge.
  • Font technology - It's getting better, but I still think MS truetype fonts still look a bit cleaner
  • Design - although the different distributions all try to make standards, they're all different, and as a user you can usually not find everything you need in one distro, so you end up with odds and ends from various distros making the desktop look like a cheap rented apartment
  • Font sizes. I've never really thought about it in Windows, but in Linux it seems every window I open has a different font size. Yes I can usually adjust things, and yes, it's possible to set default fonts and sizes, but apps don't always seem to obey them.
• apt-get updates take for-e-ver Ok 3 minutes may not sound of much, but it is when you sit and watch all the packages it checks. This is not so much vs. Windows updates but against yum (rpm) update which typically takes a few seconds.
• Sometimes Linux is faster, sometimes slower, vs. Windows. MS spent considerable resources to improve pre-caching of apps. The effect is it takes longer to start/load, use more resources (RAM mostly) but then as a result launch apps much faster.
• I hate having to type apt-get. Why the darn hyphen? That's why people are encourage to register domain names without hyphens because nobody likes to type them. Ugh.
• Why do you need to reinstall the OS just for a minor upgrade - as from 13.04 to 13.10. I understand there is a command that will do it, but a reinstall is apparently officially recommended. Redhat requires a full reinstall between major updates, but there are years between, a bit like going from Win98 to XP to Win 7.

As a Linux remote system administrator having to admin several Linux boxes worldwide, having Linux as a local workstation has actually turned out to make a lot of things much easier, including being able to test, compile, write scripts and such stuff locally, easier integration with ssh/scp/rsync.

On a side note, I installed VirtualBox and, just for fun, installed Win 8.1 in that. OMG what a $%#$^* ... it's like an Ipad without touchscreen, using only keyboard and mouse. And it seems you must have a microsoft email address to use it. I'm not sure MS did the right thing there. They had a strong foothold on the desktop, by turning Windows into mediocre tablet software I think they'll lose marketshare to real tablets and to Linux. But time will show, I'm kinda releaved to have made the move.

Now for my next project, I'll try to install a very basic Linux with Weiland on a spare pc, to see how that compares....

[thaimite]

Phil,

As a confirmed Ubuntu Unity user I can say I generally agree with your comments. You mention a few bugs I have not noticed but I have seen others

As you seem to be in to experimenting I suggest you give VMWare Player a try. Sure it is a bigger program, but I think it is faster and more intuitive.

With regard to your comments about updating the system, rry Y-PPA Manager. (Sorry on my mobile and no link) It has a lot if good additional features like checking for updates on a single PPA when installing new programmes. Keep up the reports

sent from a non fruity internet aware mobile device

[raro]

I sorted the language switch. It's hidden somewhere in the settings, Google pointed me the way.

The other bugs I have not really seen yet except for the occasional crash. But even when it says it crashed, I cannot really notice anything except for the message box.

My main beef are the poor printer options.

Then the office software that comes with Ubuntu is a sad joke. Word 2.0 was more advanced.

Tried to install open office, but didn't get my head around how that works. It's some tar file and needs someone with thick glasses to do the next step.

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[thaimite]

Open Office (Libre Office) is good and powerful, but if you are happy with writing the .doc format try Kingsoft Office Very easy to use and looks like the M$ offering. The advanced paid version is also supposed to support VBA, but I am not sure if this is only the windows version or applies to the Linux one as well.

Roy

[dharmabm]

Libreoffice should be available in the package manager

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[thaimite]

Libte office should be preinstalled as part of Ubuntu

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[raro]

Libre office is preinstalled but rather crappy. Open office is far better, but I didn't manage to install it yet.

Will check out kingsoft office and report back.

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