Things I have learned in Thailand

[AYJAYDEE]

So the OP moved here at age 25, and is now aged 57.

During which time he has learned to:

Be far more tolerant of others.

understand that the moment is everything.

Accept certain things.

Seeing the good in everything.

Enjoy whatever life I have, irrespective.

I would say that 100% of 57 years olds have learned all that and much more compared to when they were 25 years old.

Country has nothing to do with it.

not true

[yingyo]

Schadenfreude is taking joy in the misery of others; taking joy in what you think is or should be the misery of others is something I have only ever encountered on this website.

I think in the west it's also known as Gloating. Yes we often hear on this site in Thai, "Som nam na" or if someone gets ripped off: "You were stupid you deserved it" now what satisfaction does someone get out of a mindless statement like that?

Schadenfreude means something different to the example you gave.

For example we were in T-shirt stall in a market. The wife was browsing, I said how about that one, the I love my DJ t-shirt. Quick as a flash the other Thai woman there looked up and grabbed it. Held it up in front of us and her for about 30 seconds looking over it, then with the biggest smile you could imagine bought it in front of us.

Schadenfreude, makes me laugh more than anything else, what a pitiful people.

[LisaMaria]

"Things I have learned in Thailand" 

 

... you probably could have learnt anywhere else...

 

I think that is very true.

 

Though I would add that there is something liberating about moving away from the society you are raised in/established in and since for most on this forum that move has been to Thailand.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true but then you can learn a lot of new things and new habits even being in prison for 10 years. There are better places than Thailand where you can "learn" genuine values.

[AYJAYDEE]

"Things I have learned in Thailand"

... you probably could have learnt anywhere else...

I think that is very true.

Though I would add that there is something liberating about moving away from the society you are raised in/established in and since for most on this forum that move has been to Thailand.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true but then you can learn a lot of new things and new habits even being in prison for 10 years. There are better places than Thailand where you can "learn" genuine values.

why are these places better?

[LisaMaria]

 

 

"Things I have learned in Thailand" 

 

... you probably could have learnt anywhere else...

 

I think that is very true.

 

Though I would add that there is something liberating about moving away from the society you are raised in/established in and since for most on this forum that move has been to Thailand.

 

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true but then you can learn a lot of new things and new habits even being in prison for 10 years. There are better places than Thailand where you can "learn" genuine values.

 

why are these places better?

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Because of what I wrote, genuine values shared among people in these places make them better places to live.

[telldem]

I've learned to check everything for bugs and snakes before I put them on.

And my motorbike and car is community property.

[GuestHouse]

"Things I have learned in Thailand"

... you probably could have learnt anywhere else...

I think that is very true.

Though I would add that there is something liberating about moving away from the society you are raised in/established in and since for most on this forum that move has been to Thailand.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true but then you can learn a lot of new things and new habits even being in prison for 10 years. There are better places than Thailand where you can "learn" genuine values.

That's true, but I don't see that Thailand in and of itself is necessarily a bad place to learn genuine values. I though do see many expats arrive and start inventing a set of values for Thai society which have little or nothing to do with the actual values of Thai society and everything to do with the expat looking to justify or remove the basis of criticism of his own behaviour in Thailand.

[AYJAYDEE]

"Things I have learned in Thailand"

... you probably could have learnt anywhere else...

I think that is very true.

Though I would add that there is something liberating about moving away from the society you are raised in/established in and since for most on this forum that move has been to Thailand.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true but then you can learn a lot of new things and new habits even being in prison for 10 years. There are better places than Thailand where you can "learn" genuine values.

That's true, but I don't see that Thailand in and of itself is necessarily a bad place to learn genuine values. I though do see many expats arrive and start inventing a set of values for Thai society which have little or nothing to do with the actual values of Thai society and everything to do with the expat looking to justify or remove the basis of criticism of his own behaviour in Thailand.

places like suan mokh are EXCELLENT places to learn values.

[Bpuumike]

Things I've learned?

1) Keep your personal life to yourself. People over here outside my immediate Thai friends and family and a couple of westerners I've known since I got here know sweet F.A. about anything regarding my or my family's private or working life, either here or back in my hometown.

2) Some people are poor for a reason. As the rather crude saying goes, if shit was money their arsehol_e would be sewn shut.

3) Always look for a PTT station if you've got the squirts. Those toilets on the front for the elderly, disabled and pregnant are perfect. Face be damned granny I'm touching cloth and coming through!

My Thai wife still doesn't understand what I do for a living. She knows it's dangerous and wants me to stop. Probably more sensible than I am.

It's not all about money.

You're not the guy with the balloon between his legs at a Patpong dart show are you mate?

Nice one

[benalibina]

"Things I have learned in Thailand"

... you probably could have learnt anywhere else...

I think that is very true.

Though I would add that there is something liberating about moving away from the society you are raised in/established in and since for most on this forum that move has been to Thailand.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true but then you can learn a lot of new things and new habits even being in prison for 10 years. There are better places than Thailand where you can "learn" genuine values.

That's true, but I don't see that Thailand in and of itself is necessarily a bad place to learn genuine values. I though do see many expats arrive and start inventing a set of values for Thai society which have little or nothing to do with the actual values of Thai society and everything to do with the expat looking to justify or remove the basis of criticism of his own behaviour in Thailand.

Having children, for me at least, started to see thai society through " different" eyes. 1s own values 1 tries to bring over to the children. Thai society in general is a polite society with respect for the older people in the language. Same as in my country.

Every 1s own values differ though. It all depends in which circles 1 stays. Living in country with a total different culture and mindset makes 1 evenmore aware of 1s own upbringing and true values. Can come in conflict with the thais in public and private life. In general my experiences with thai people who were strangers in daily life for me have been good mostly, bad sometimes and surprisingly positive. It helps ofcourse if 1 can speak some thai.

Edited October 25, 2013 by benalibina

[LisaMaria]

 

 

"Things I have learned in Thailand" 

 

... you probably could have learnt anywhere else...

 

I think that is very true.

 

Though I would add that there is something liberating about moving away from the society you are raised in/established in and since for most on this forum that move has been to Thailand.

 

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true but then you can learn a lot of new things and new habits even being in prison for 10 years. There are better places than Thailand where you can "learn" genuine values.

 

 

That's true, but I don't see that Thailand in and of itself is necessarily a bad place to learn genuine values. I though do see many expats arrive and start inventing a set of values for Thai society which have little or nothing to do with the actual values of Thai society and everything to do with the expat looking to justify or remove the basis of criticism of his own behaviour in Thailand.

Having children, for me at least, started to see thai society through " different" eyes. 1s own values 1 tries to bring over to the children. Thai society in general is a polite society with respect for the older people in the language. Same as in my country.

Every 1s own values differ though. It all depends in which circles 1 stays. Living in country with a total different culture and mindset makes 1 evenmore aware of 1s own upbringing and true values. Can come in conflict with the thais in public and private life. In general my experiences with thai people who were strangers in daily life for me have been good mostly, bad sometimes and surprisingly positive. It helps ofcourse if 1 can speak some thai.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes you got the point. Thais respect you in the order: you are part of my family, you are a friend, you are powerful, you can give me something (f.e. Money). In different societies you are taught to respect people because they are human being and equals to you. I think that the so called politeness should be called in a different way as it is conditioned by what you can get from the other person.

There are better place to live

[sms747]

I think the main thing I have learned here is not to trust other foreigners, or believe most of what they say. My mrs is still owed 50k by an American living in Omni Tower after 3 years and he owes money to many other people Thais included-but I think he could easily pay them all back. The last person I would lend money to or help out would be another foreigner here. Quite a few other examples of foreign con men, liars and cheats here, I don't mix or have anything to do with them apart from a couple of academics, and one of them is a bit dodgy as well!

Edited October 26, 2013 by sms747

[GuestHouse]

Yes you got the point. Thais respect you in the order: you are part of my family, you are a friend, you are powerful, you can give me something (f.e. Money). In different societies you are taught to respect people because they are human being and equals to you. I think that the so called politeness should be called in a different way as it is conditioned by what you can get from the other person.

There are better place to live

With respect, I believe this to be a simplistic comparative view of Thai values. And I by no means argue that all Thai values are good, superior, bad or inferior - I'll come to some of that in a moment.

There are two sides to the equation - The Thai society and the expat.

All expats, myself included, arrive with little or no understanding the rules under which Thai society works - all expats, myself included, start their journey into understanding the new society they live in by partitioning their experience and what they are told into mental drawers - good, bad, strange, incompressible etc. This process of understanding is further complicated by language.

All expat, myself included, start to learn the language by learning to be able ask for the essentials of life, food, water (I often quip a cold beer) we all of us, myself included, start to learn to discuss things in terms of qualifiers, the ones to note are 'Good' and 'Bad'.

I myself recall being stuck for sometime with only sufficient Thai language to be able to discuss matters in the superlative - listen to newly arrived expats and you'll hear them do exactly the same. I'm in no sense mocking this, we all experience this, myself included.

Keep in mind the importance of first impressions: for at least the first months of life in Thailand we have this monochromatic discussion - Big/Small, Hot/Cold, Beautiful/Ugly, Kind/Unkind, Good/Bad.

If we are unable to develop our language skills then the only moderator of these monochromatic views is our own experience but if we have set our mind to Big/Small, Hot/Cold, Beautiful/Ugly, Kind/Unkind, Good/Bad and those are the only terms we have to discuss our experiences with Thai people it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible to develop a more nuanced, and more realistic view of Thai society.

If we are further hampered by a lack of intellectual curiosity, we might never learn.

So language plays a part - limited language is inevitably going to limit our view and our window to understanding.

The next issue relates to the expat and their predisposition to choose a view which suits their own needs, this goes back to the comment I made earlier:

I though do see many expats arrive and start inventing a set of values for Thai society which have little or nothing to do with the actual values of Thai society and everything to do with the expat looking to justify or remove the basis of criticism of his own behaviour in Thailand

You need not go out to look at expats to observe this, simply read enough posts here on TVF and you'll come across posts from people who present a view of Thai society and Thai societal norms which is in stark contrast with the view other members have.

We might argue that this is simply a difference of opinion, but it we then look at the behaviours aligned with these views a pattern emerges of individual expats (by no means all) expressing a view of Thai society and Thai social norms which is supportive of their own 'freedom' to behave in a way they would not or could not behave at home.

Cross check who makes these arguments in favour of a Thai society with no rules to preclude their own behaviour with discussion on social norms back in their own country (please do not dare mention that dreaded word 'Morality') and you'll find these same people on the one hand extol a view of Thai society that has no rules critical of their 'Freedom to behave as they wish' and rant and rave against their old country societal rules which would be critical of their behaviour.

The point to note is they have constructed a view of Thai society which gives them a perceived freedom to behave as they wish but that view is based on the way they wish to behave.

It is an insight into the mind of the individual expat, it is not an insight into the actual values of Thai society.

Edited October 26, 2013 by GuestHouse

[LisaMaria]

Yes you got the point. Thais respect you in the order: you are part of my family, you are a friend, you are powerful, you can give me something (f.e. Money). In different societies you are taught to respect people because they are human being and equals to you. I think that the so called politeness should be called in a different way as it is conditioned by what you can get from the other person.

There are better place to live

 

With respect, I believe this to be a simplistic comparative view of Thai values. And I by no means argue that all Thai values are good, superior, bad or inferior - I'll come to some of that in a moment. 

 

There are two sides to the equation - The Thai society and the expat. 

 

All expats, myself included, arrive with little or no understanding the rules under which Thai society works - all expats, myself included, start their journey into understanding the new society they live in by partitioning their experience and what they are told into mental drawers - good, bad, strange, incompressible etc. This process of understanding is further complicated by language. 

 

All expat, myself included, start to learn the language by learning to be able ask for the essentials of life, food, water (I often quip a cold beer) we all of us, myself included, start to learn to discuss things in terms of qualifiers, the ones to note are 'Good' and 'Bad'. 

 

I myself recall being stuck for sometime with only sufficient Thai language to be able to discuss matters in the superlative - listen to newly arrived expats and you'll hear them do exactly the same. I'm in no sense mocking this, we all experience this, myself included.

 

Keep in mind the importance of first impressions: for at least the first months of life in Thailand we have this monochromatic discussion - Big/Small, Hot/Cold, Beautiful/Ugly, Kind/Unkind, Good/Bad.

 

If we are unable to develop our language skills then the only moderator of these monochromatic views is our own experience but if we have set our mind to Big/Small, Hot/Cold, Beautiful/Ugly, Kind/Unkind, Good/Bad and those are the only terms we have to discuss our experiences with Thai people it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible to develop a more nuanced, and more realistic view of Thai society.

 

If we are further hampered by a lack of intellectual curiosity, we might never learn.

 

 

So language plays a part - limited language is inevitably going to limit our view and our window to understanding. 

 

 

The next issue relates to the expat and their predisposition to choose a view which suits their own needs, this goes back to the comment I made earlier:

 

I though do see many expats arrive and start inventing a set of values for Thai society which have little or nothing to do with the actual values of Thai society and everything to do with the expat looking to justify or remove the basis of criticism of his own behaviour in Thailand

 

You need not go out to look at expats to observe this, simply read enough posts here on TVF and you'll come across posts from people who present a view of Thai society and Thai societal norms which is in stark contrast with the view other members have. 

 

We might argue that this is simply a difference of opinion, but it we then look at the behaviours aligned with these views a pattern emerges of individual expats (by no means all) expressing a view of Thai society and Thai social norms which is supportive of their own 'freedom' to behave in a way they would not or could not behave at home.

 

Cross check who makes these arguments in favour of a Thai society with no rules to preclude their own behaviour with discussion on social norms back in their own country (please do not dare mention that dreaded word 'Morality') and you'll find these same people on the one hand extol a view of Thai society that has no rules critical of their 'Freedom to behave as they wish' and rant and rave against their old country societal rules which would be critical of their behaviour. 

 

The point to note is they have constructed a view of Thai society which gives them a perceived freedom to behave as they wish but that view is based on the way they wish to behave.

 

It is an insight into the mind of the individual expat, it is not an insight into the actual values of Thai society. 

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thank you for this post. But I think it is not an expat view the attitude of Thai people to give a "value" and THEN adjust their behaviour consequently. This has nothing to do with language. It has to do with a still poor society and not well educated people in general. Still the focus is: how to survive. Convenience is ruling. See what Thai women can do towards a man. I don't judge them, I would probably do the same in their shoes. But they are able to "choose" a man ONLY because of wealth. And if he is not a Thai man, who KNOWS how to handle them, well, I guess you know enough stories. Thai men are not better anyway. This happens also somewhere else but in Thailand where the value is: "I, Me and myself" this is a common and well accepted practice.

This country is barely ok if you are 20 and you want some cheap fun, if you like that kind of fun.

Nothing more than this.

[AYJAYDEE]

Yes you got the point. Thais respect you in the order: you are part of my family, you are a friend, you are powerful, you can give me something (f.e. Money). In different societies you are taught to respect people because they are human being and equals to you. I think that the so called politeness should be called in a different way as it is conditioned by what you can get from the other person.

There are better place to live

With respect, I believe this to be a simplistic comparative view of Thai values. And I by no means argue that all Thai values are good, superior, bad or inferior - I'll come to some of that in a moment.

There are two sides to the equation - The Thai society and the expat.

more than okay for me

All expats, myself included, arrive with little or no understanding the rules under which Thai society works - all expats, myself included, start their journey into understanding the new society they live in by partitioning their experience and what they are told into mental drawers - good, bad, strange, incompressible etc. This process of understanding is further complicated by language.

All expat, myself included, start to learn the language by learning to be able ask for the essentials of life, food, water (I often quip a cold beer) we all of us, myself included, start to learn to discuss things in terms of qualifiers, the ones to note are 'Good' and 'Bad'.

I myself recall being stuck for sometime with only sufficient Thai language to be able to discuss matters in the superlative - listen to newly arrived expats and you'll hear them do exactly the same. I'm in no sense mocking this, we all experience this, myself included.

Keep in mind the importance of first impressions: for at least the first months of life in Thailand we have this monochromatic discussion - Big/Small, Hot/Cold, Beautiful/Ugly, Kind/Unkind, Good/Bad.

If we are unable to develop our language skills then the only moderator of these monochromatic views is our own experience but if we have set our mind to Big/Small, Hot/Cold, Beautiful/Ugly, Kind/Unkind, Good/Bad and those are the only terms we have to discuss our experiences with Thai people it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible to develop a more nuanced, and more realistic view of Thai society.

If we are further hampered by a lack of intellectual curiosity, we might never learn.

So language plays a part - limited language is inevitably going to limit our view and our window to understanding.

The next issue relates to the expat and their predisposition to choose a view which suits their own needs, this goes back to the comment I made earlier:

I though do see many expats arrive and start inventing a set of values for Thai society which have little or nothing to do with the actual values of Thai society and everything to do with the expat looking to justify or remove the basis of criticism of his own behaviour in Thailand

You need not go out to look at expats to observe this, simply read enough posts here on TVF and you'll come across posts from people who present a view of Thai society and Thai societal norms which is in stark contrast with the view other members have.

We might argue that this is simply a difference of opinion, but it we then look at the behaviours aligned with these views a pattern emerges of individual expats (by no means all) expressing a view of Thai society and Thai social norms which is supportive of their own 'freedom' to behave in a way they would not or could not behave at home.

Cross check who makes these arguments in favour of a Thai society with no rules to preclude their own behaviour with discussion on social norms back in their own country (please do not dare mention that dreaded word 'Morality') and you'll find these same people on the one hand extol a view of Thai society that has no rules critical of their 'Freedom to behave as they wish' and rant and rave against their old country societal rules which would be critical of their behaviour.

The point to note is they have constructed a view of Thai society which gives them a perceived freedom to behave as they wish but that view is based on the way they wish to behave.

It is an insight into the mind of the individual expat, it is not an insight into the actual values of Thai society.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thank you for this post. But I think it is not an expat view the attitude of Thai people to give a "value" and THEN adjust their behaviour consequently. This has nothing to do with language. It has to do with a still poor society and not well educated people in general. Still the focus is: how to survive. Convenience is ruling. See what Thai women can do towards a man. I don't judge them, I would probably do the same in their shoes. But they are able to "choose" a man ONLY because of wealth. And if he is not a Thai man, who KNOWS how to handle them, well, I guess you know enough stories. Thai men are not better anyway. This happens also somewhere else but in Thailand where the value is: "I, Me and myself" this is a common and well accepted practice.

This country is barely ok if you are 20 and you want some cheap fun, if you like that kind of fun.

Nothing more than this.

[pablodiablo]

jeez, you pretty well covered it

been here 10yrs have great thai wife and 10 year old, will hopefully have this outlook one day,but not there yet.

[GuestHouse]

LisaMaria, wrt your comment 'There are better place to live' and I take that as being in terms of what you referred to as 'Learning Genuine Values'.

I am, in a sense, inclined to agree, with a couple of caveats.

The first is in terms of raising children.

There are two little GH's - Note for clarity - I am not introducing my children to this topic for them to be discussed by others, I am discussing my experience as a parent and the impact I observed of Thai societal norms on my children.

Raising the little GH's as babies and toddlers in Thailand was a very positive experience, I have posted many times on the very many positive aspects of their early life in Thailand, the freedom to wander in and out of neighbour's houses, the contact they had with people of all ages, the opportunity they had to learn the language and many old traditional customs from neighbours and friends.

Golden years which we remember with great fondness.

But I hope that we all as parents are observant of the impact of societal norms on our children's development. We certainly did, they started as being small things but became became intolerable.

A few examples to illustrate:

A discipline issue between one of the little GH's and a teacher turned into protection against loss of face issue with the ridiculous situation we as parents supporting the teacher and the school principal dismissing the teacher rather than review a decision he made in haste on incomplete information.

At the PTA I raised the point that what the Principal has enforced is the knowledge that every child has ability to get a member of staff dismissed - That's not what the little GH set out to do, not what we set out to do but what the Principal did over 'Face'.

Then came a growing awareness that in almost any discussion about our daughter, Thais (and a shocking number of expats) would trot out what at first seemed harmless comments supporting the importance of being pretty, well behaved, subservient, over being and individual, independent, thinking for oneself.

Our awareness then grew of the unquestioning and competitive materialism which has a grip of the school and almost every family in our social circle, regardless of income/financial means and absolutely more prevalent amongst our Thai friends.

The final straw came when our daughter remarked while we were stuck in a traffic jam 'I don't like those kind of women', she was referring to prostitutes siting in a beer bar along the side of the road. This was not something she had learned at home, I doubt she had been explicitly told there was any reason to judge prostitutes differently , rather we concluded she had recognised a social system and a division in Thai society - We moved the little GHs back to the old country - and have never regretted doing so.

My view is that what an adult expat may learn from Thai society is almost entirely dependent up the character and intellect of the adult.

What children might learn from Thai society, to my mind as a father, comes with real risks of damaging them for life.

Raising children in Thailand as babies and toddlers - Yes

Through the remainder of of their formative years - We chose not to do so and we regard it the best decision we ever made.

[AYJAYDEE]

LisaMaria, wrt your comment 'There are better place to live' and I take that as being in terms of what you referred to as 'Learning Genuine Values'.

I am, in a sense, inclined to agree, with a couple of caveats.

The first is in terms of raising children.

There are two little GH's - Note for clarity - I am not introducing my children to this topic for them to be discussed by others, I am discussing my experience as a parent and the impact I observed of Thai societal norms on my children.

Raising the little GH's as babies and toddlers in Thailand was a very positive experience, I have posted many times on the very many positive aspects of their early life in Thailand, the freedom to wander in and out of neighbour's houses, the contact they had with people of all ages, the opportunity they had to learn the language and many old traditional customs from neighbours and friends.

Golden years which we remember with great fondness.

But I hope that we all as parents are observant of the impact of societal norms on our children's development. We certainly did, they started as being small things but became became intolerable.

A few examples to illustrate:

A discipline issue between one of the little GH's and a teacher turned into protection against loss of face issue with the ridiculous situation we as parents supporting the teacher and the school principal dismissing the teacher rather than review a decision he made in haste on incomplete information.

At the PTA I raised the point that what the Principal has enforced is the knowledge that every child has ability to get a member of staff dismissed - That's not what the little GH set out to do, not what we set out to do but what the Principal did over 'Face'.

Then came a growing awareness that in almost any discussion about our daughter, Thais (and a shocking number of expats) would trot out what at first seemed harmless comments supporting the importance of being pretty, well behaved, subservient, over being and individual, independent, thinking for oneself.

Our awareness then grew of the unquestioning and competitive materialism which has a grip of the school and almost every family in our social circle, regardless of income/financial means and absolutely more prevalent amongst our Thai friends.

The final straw came when our daughter remarked while we were stuck in a traffic jam 'I don't like those kind of women', she was referring to prostitutes siting in a beer bar along the side of the road. This was not something she had learned at home, I doubt she had been explicitly told there was any reason to judge prostitutes differently , rather we concluded she had recognised a social system and a division in Thai society - We moved the little GHs back to the old country - and have never regretted doing so.

My view is that what an adult expat may learn from Thai society is almost entirely dependent up the character and intellect of the adult.

What children might learn from Thai society, to my mind as a father, comes with real risks of damaging them for life.

Raising children in Thailand as babies and toddlers - Yes

Through the remainder of of their formative years - We chose not to do so and we regard it the best decision we ever made.

so how come our wives turned out so well??

[jbrain]

Not yet living in Thailand, but what I have learnt is that I am highly priviledged in many regards, from education to job to money to health to travel opportunities... I have seen and learnt with how few (compared to me) people can be happy. ... I have learnt that I should be grateful for what I have been given and not complain, whine and moan about the many things that Thailand "offers" that are different from back home.

And that probably distinguishes me from a great load of TV posters that I see on here...

And it is absolutely refreshing to see your post, dear geronimo

So someone who doesn't live in Thailand, is gonna tell people who live here how life in Thailand actually is since they know nothing and you know it all .

I have such a feeling that you have superiority issues.

Edited October 26, 2013 by jbrain

[GuestHouse]

Ajaydee, I except that its an honest mistake but can you please edit your response at #78 to place your comment outside of the quote of my post.

[LisaMaria]

Not yet living in Thailand, but what I have learnt is that I am highly priviledged in many regards, from education to job to money to health to travel opportunities...  I have seen and learnt with how few (compared to me) people can be happy. ... I have learnt that I should be grateful for what I have been given and not complain, whine and moan about the many things that Thailand "offers" that are different from back home.

 

And that probably distinguishes me from a great load of TV posters that I see on here... 

 

And it is absolutely refreshing to see your post, dear geronimo

 

So someone who doesn't live in Thailand, is gonna tell people who live here how life in Thailand actually is since they know nothing and you know it all .

 

I have such a feeling that you have superiority issues.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You have this issue for sure as you are confidently assuming about my residence. And you are wrong ;-)

[jbrain]

Not yet living in Thailand, but what I have learnt is that I am highly priviledged in many regards, from education to job to money to health to travel opportunities... I have seen and learnt with how few (compared to me) people can be happy. ... I have learnt that I should be grateful for what I have been given and not complain, whine and moan about the many things that Thailand "offers" that are different from back home.

And that probably distinguishes me from a great load of TV posters that I see on here...

And it is absolutely refreshing to see your post, dear geronimo

So someone who doesn't live in Thailand, is gonna tell people who live here how life in Thailand actually is since they know nothing and you know it all .

I have such a feeling that you have superiority issues.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You have this issue for sure as you are confidently assuming about my residence. And you are wrong ;-)

Did I respond to your post or is Swiss1960 your second username?

[GuestHouse]

LisaMaria, wrt your comment 'There are better place to live' and I take that as being in terms of what you referred to as 'Learning Genuine Values'.

I am, in a sense, inclined to agree, with a couple of caveats.

The first is in terms of raising children.

There are two little GH's - Note for clarity - I am not introducing my children to this topic for them to be discussed by others, I am discussing my experience as a parent and the impact I observed of Thai societal norms on my children.

Raising the little GH's as babies and toddlers in Thailand was a very positive experience, I have posted many times on the very many positive aspects of their early life in Thailand, the freedom to wander in and out of neighbour's houses, the contact they had with people of all ages, the opportunity they had to learn the language and many old traditional customs from neighbours and friends.

Golden years which we remember with great fondness.

But I hope that we all as parents are observant of the impact of societal norms on our children's development. We certainly did, they started as being small things but became became intolerable.

A few examples to illustrate:

A discipline issue between one of the little GH's and a teacher turned into protection against loss of face issue with the ridiculous situation we as parents supporting the teacher and the school principal dismissing the teacher rather than review a decision he made in haste on incomplete information.

At the PTA I raised the point that what the Principal has enforced is the knowledge that every child has ability to get a member of staff dismissed - That's not what the little GH set out to do, not what we set out to do but what the Principal did over 'Face'.

Then came a growing awareness that in almost any discussion about our daughter, Thais (and a shocking number of expats) would trot out what at first seemed harmless comments supporting the importance of being pretty, well behaved, subservient, over being and individual, independent, thinking for oneself.

Our awareness then grew of the unquestioning and competitive materialism which has a grip of the school and almost every family in our social circle, regardless of income/financial means and absolutely more prevalent amongst our Thai friends.

The final straw came when our daughter remarked while we were stuck in a traffic jam 'I don't like those kind of women', she was referring to prostitutes siting in a beer bar along the side of the road. This was not something she had learned at home, I doubt she had been explicitly told there was any reason to judge prostitutes differently , rather we concluded she had recognised a social system and a division in Thai society - We moved the little GHs back to the old country - and have never regretted doing so.

My view is that what an adult expat may learn from Thai society is almost entirely dependent up the character and intellect of the adult.

What children might learn from Thai society, to my mind as a father, comes with real risks of damaging them for life.

Raising children in Thailand as babies and toddlers - Yes

Through the remainder of of their formative years - We chose not to do so and we regard it the best decision we ever made.

so how come our wives turned out so well??

What one man wants of a wife should not be confused with what another man wants for his daughter.

[AYJAYDEE]

LisaMaria, wrt your comment 'There are better place to live' and I take that as being in terms of what you referred to as 'Learning Genuine Values'.

I am, in a sense, inclined to agree, with a couple of caveats.

The first is in terms of raising children.

There are two little GH's - Note for clarity - I am not introducing my children to this topic for them to be discussed by others, I am discussing my experience as a parent and the impact I observed of Thai societal norms on my children.

Raising the little GH's as babies and toddlers in Thailand was a very positive experience, I have posted many times on the very many positive aspects of their early life in Thailand, the freedom to wander in and out of neighbour's houses, the contact they had with people of all ages, the opportunity they had to learn the language and many old traditional customs from neighbours and friends.

Golden years which we remember with great fondness.

But I hope that we all as parents are observant of the impact of societal norms on our children's development. We certainly did, they started as being small things but became became intolerable.

A few examples to illustrate:

A discipline issue between one of the little GH's and a teacher turned into protection against loss of face issue with the ridiculous situation we as parents supporting the teacher and the school principal dismissing the teacher rather than review a decision he made in haste on incomplete information.

At the PTA I raised the point that what the Principal has enforced is the knowledge that every child has ability to get a member of staff dismissed - That's not what the little GH set out to do, not what we set out to do but what the Principal did over 'Face'.

Then came a growing awareness that in almost any discussion about our daughter, Thais (and a shocking number of expats) would trot out what at first seemed harmless comments supporting the importance of being pretty, well behaved, subservient, over being and individual, independent, thinking for oneself.

Our awareness then grew of the unquestioning and competitive materialism which has a grip of the school and almost every family in our social circle, regardless of income/financial means and absolutely more prevalent amongst our Thai friends.

The final straw came when our daughter remarked while we were stuck in a traffic jam 'I don't like those kind of women', she was referring to prostitutes siting in a beer bar along the side of the road. This was not something she had learned at home, I doubt she had been explicitly told there was any reason to judge prostitutes differently , rather we concluded she had recognised a social system and a division in Thai society - We moved the little GHs back to the old country - and have never regretted doing so.

My view is that what an adult expat may learn from Thai society is almost entirely dependent up the character and intellect of the adult.

What children might learn from Thai society, to my mind as a father, comes with real risks of damaging them for life.

Raising children in Thailand as babies and toddlers - Yes

Through the remainder of of their formative years - We chose not to do so and we regard it the best decision we ever made.

so how come our wives turned out so well??

What one man wants of a wife should not be confused with what another man wants for his daughter.

if my daughter grows up to be as good a woman as my wife I will be more than satisfied. sorry to hear of your situation.

[GuestHouse]

if my daughter grows up to be as good a woman as my wife I will be more than satisfied. sorry to hear of your situation.

As one father to another, I sincerely hope your daughter grows up to meet or better your hopes for her. What father could not recognise these common hopes and wishes in another?!

Thank your for your condolences, but I assure you there is nothing warranting concern - we live exactly the life we choose to live and we are very happy with the decisions we have made and the outcome of the decisions we have made.

I have frequently remarked I have been fortunate in the privileged life I/we have lived in Thailand. One of those privileges has been the opportunity to take the very best Thailand has to offer us when our children were very young and to be able to make a choice to opt out of those aspects of Thai society which we as parents regarded as something we did not want for our children.

As parents we all have the inalienable right, I would say duty, to do what we as parents feel is best for our children - to be able to exercise those rights and duties to the fullest extent we wish is not something to regret, and certainly not a matter for sorrow on anybody's part.

Regardless of how well intentioned the condolences are offered.

Edited October 26, 2013 by GuestHouse

[tlcwaterfall]

Not yet living in Thailand, but what I have learnt is that I am highly priviledged in many regards, from education to job to money to health to travel opportunities... I have seen and learnt with how few (compared to me) people can be happy. ... I have learnt that I should be grateful for what I have been given and not complain, whine and moan about the many things that Thailand "offers" that are different from back home.

And that probably distinguishes me from a great load of TV posters that I see on here...

And it is absolutely refreshing to see your post, dear geronimo

"Not yet living in Thailand"

Wait until you are here and you may find a few things to whine and moan about once you have been here for a while.

[canuckamuck]

In the last decade in Thailand, I have become more patient, less self centered, and more confident. I have no idea if Thailand has had anything to do with this.

Perhaps it is because my wife is the best human being I know, and spending the last 8 years with her has been very good for my soul.

I have learned that humans are a mess generally, I now have lowered expectations and appreciate the positive more easily.

I listen a lot now because I have learned that people just want to be heard. I keep my pearls close and share when appropriate.

I have learned not to put things off, life changes quickly. Life is better when you are more concerned for others than you are about yourself.

I have shaken off many of the negatives of western culture, particularly the fear of everything and the inflated sense of justice.

I feel Thailand is a prisoner of its own culture, but you can see cracks in the walls. The internet is probably helping.

[geronimo]

So the OP moved here at age 25, and is now aged 57.

During which time he has learned to:

Be far more tolerant of others.

understand that the moment is everything.

Accept certain things.

Seeing the good in everything.

Enjoy whatever life I have, irrespective.

I would say that 100% of 57 years olds have learned all that and much more compared to when they were 25 years old.

Country has nothing to do with it.

Well I wouldn't fancy my chances if I had stayed in the UK all this time!

[Bpuumike]

You don't have to pick with your fingernails in a frenzy at the rubber band around those little bags of nam pla they give you with your take home khao pad until the bag splits and the contents either spill down your front of squirt in your eye. Just gently pull at the rubber band and it'll just come off.

Took me years to discover that.....

Handling rubber bands is a required art in Thailand.

My wife always takes a pack of them to Europe or Oz.

[zydeco]

Can't generalize. I have met some of the most honest, selfless, and ethical people I've ever known in Thailand--from all economic and social strata. I have also met up with some of the most devious, power crazed, and money obsessed individuals I've ever met. And then there are the people so desperate that they'll take any opportunity to get this day's rent or food, even if that means running you over to do it. Then, there are those who feel entitled to every privilege in life and those who feel like fate has doomed them to nothing--and it's their fault because of something they think they've done in a past life. In short, almost every day it's easy to feel liberated and wonderful and few minutes later feel pity and outrage. I do know that this is where I want to be, where I want to stay. Going back to the US is not an option. I honestly think that going back would kill me.