Monday 28th October 2013

Now Bali wants a 'medical' tax

Article here

Bali is the latest leisure destination to reveal plans to slug tourists with a "medical tax".

Last week Thailand announced that it is working on a tourist tax specifically to help pay for medical expenses incurred by international visitors. That decision drew numerous complaints from the tourism sector in Thailand, which accused the government of introducing a tax that would drive tourists away.

Now Bali is ready to shoot itself in the foot.

Bali's governor is believed to be examining ways to provide insurance coverage for international tourists in order to provide care when tourists fall sick, are injured or die. Never mind that most (sensible) tourists to Bali carry their own personal travel insurance.

Bali Update (www.balidiscovery.com), quotes state news agency Antara, which reports that governor Made Mangku Pastika, "is targeting for the regulation's completion by the end of this year".

Pastika said that for insurance coverage to be extended a fee would have to be paid by every visitor passing through a Bali air or seaport. From this fee a premium would be paid to provide both insurance coverage and separate funds for the "protections of Bali's culture and environment".

"In other words, not all the money paid will go to the government. "Some will be used to assist those involved in accidents, fall sick or die while in Bali. "When people die, we are sometimes confused on how to return the remains of the dead," explained Pastika.

The governor said that while many foreign tourists already had insurance, "that coverage is in their country of origin and it is not clear who will organise their affairs while in Bali".

Pastika said that officials in Bali are often faced with difficult problems in dealing with sick, injured or dead tourists. "By insuring foreign visitors, the benefits can be used to look after such tourists." Indonesia currently charges international visitors a US$25 visa on arrival fee, and a 150,000 (US$14) rupiah departure tax.

Edited October 29, 201312 yr by jko

Personally I don't see it as an issue, just look at the number of threads on here from sick pennyless foreigners or people asking where they can get the cheapest medical care. Certainly in the case of the UK, their own Government wont help them so why should the Thais foot the bill?

Not sure what you expect. Seems reasonable to expect foreigners to be insured.

Countries and medical facilities would seem to be tired of absorbing the costs of medical treatment for foreigners who don't have either the financial means or insurance coverage to pay for their medical bills.

You might say they tourists are short-sighted freeloaders. To call it greed is ludicrous.

" Pastika said that for insurance coverage to be extended a fee would have to be paid by every visitor passing through a Bali air or seaport. From this fee a premium would be paid to provide both insurance coverage and separate funds for the "protections of Bali's culture and environment"."

A few bulldozers for Kuta wouldn't go amiss

Countries and medical facilities would seem to be tired of absorbing the costs of medical treatment for foreigners who don't have either the financial means or insurance coverage to pay for their medical bills.

You might say they tourists are short-sighted freeloaders. To call it greed is ludicrous.

"To call it greed is ludicrous"

Amen

If anyone is greedy it's the people who expect to get medical treatment without any cost to themselves or who are too cheap to pay for insurance.

Personally I don't see it as an issue, just look at the number of threads on here from sick pennyless foreigners or people asking where they can get the cheapest medical care. Certainly in the case of the UK, their own Government wont help them so why should the Thais foot the bill?

The yearly bill in Thailand is less than 300 million baht (governments own estimate)

The total fee to be collected in Thailand equals 10 billion baht (governments own estimate).

Could you please explain why it is necessary to collect 33 times more than the actual expenses?

" Pastika said that for insurance coverage to be extended a fee would have to be paid by every visitor passing through a Bali air or seaport. From this fee a premium would be paid to provide both insurance coverage and separate funds for the "protections of Bali's culture and environment"."

A few bulldozers for Kuta wouldn't go amiss

My guess is "funds for the protection of Bali's culture" is Balinese for tea money to Bali's officials.

Not sure what you expect. Seems reasonable to expect foreigners to be insured.

Thais profit alot from tourists, some directly by doing business with the tourists and the rest through taxes paid by tourists directly or indirectly. Tourists on the other hand benefit absolutely nothing from other tourists. Yet Thailand thinks it is completely fair that those other tourists, who already have insurance, and who do not benefit at all from the tourism industry, should foot the entire bill and a lot more. Some people, like me, would argue that it would be more fair that thais foot this bill through taxes, since thais are the ones benefitting from the tourism industry.

I am aware of course that tourists are easy targets as they cannot vote. Note how every ministry immediately agreed to implement the tourist tax of 500 baht, but immediately shot down the 100 baht tax proposed by the AOT, since it would also affect Thai voters

Countries and medical facilities would seem to be tired of absorbing the costs of medical treatment for foreigners who don't have either the financial means or insurance coverage to pay for their medical bills.

You might say they tourists are short-sighted freeloaders. To call it greed is ludicrous.

Correct me if you are wrong but if you can't pay isn't there a system where the embassy is informed and the bill passed on to the person by his home country? Also I don't think you can just walk out after getting treatment without paying something.

Also a lot of us have enough cash to pay if we need it! I know I do and have always paid whatever was needed!

After renting a car for a month in Houston and having over $250 "stadium tax" (for stadiums I'll never enter) added on the bottom line of the bill, even 500 baht for "mango tree rehabilitation" doesn't sound bad.

It's a tax. Just like a dozen other taxes hidden in your airplane ticket. And the 50 baht taxi from the airport tax. It sucks, but it's part of living the life of a traveler. Don't like it? Don't travel. Wanna travel? Get used to being taxed and overtaxed every time you take off, land, speed up, slow down and lay your head on a pillow.

Really want to get hacked off? Take a detailed look at your last airplane ticket- the small print after the top line ticket price. Fuel surcharge, landing fee, take-off fee, security fee(s), sales tax, and the list goes on.

If they had been smart, they would have just called it a tax increase and nobody would be arguing about whether they should be paying for medical insurance they may not need.

Edited October 30, 201312 yr by impulse

whatever the charge, it will show a profit

Why not add 1% to the hotel rooms tax?

I personally would encourage a simple form of finance for people who can not pay a large amount ,it could be used as a drawdown when needed and money goes back to the place of treatment providing someone regulates the fees .

Not sure what you expect. Seems reasonable to expect foreigners to be insured.

And if they are will they not have to pay this medical tax to enter the country?

So I need to slip the card into my passport along with the TM 6?

Edited October 31, 201312 yr by jacko45k

Personally I don't see it as an issue, just look at the number of threads on here from sick pennyless foreigners or people asking where they can get the cheapest medical care. Certainly in the case of the UK, their own Government wont help them so why should the Thais foot the bill?

I have worldwide medical insurance [except USA} why should I pay for more?

I was there 3 weeks ago. I was speechless when I had to pay something like 20 dollars to leave the country. It is understandable they charge you for the "visa" on arrival but to charge again when leaving the country is just a rip off.

I lived in Bali. Friend broke a leg, went to hospital. Keystone Kops could do better. Blood type? What's that? If it covered evacuation to Singapore might be a good idea. Be thankful they have decent care here.

Not sure what you expect. Seems reasonable to expect foreigners to be insured.

Very reasonable expectation!! I ALWAYS have insurance (health and travel), because you never know what might happen... (my frustration though is that I am careful and sofar have not made any claims!)

I refuse however to pay for other people who are too stupid to have insurance, for whatever reason. Too expensive is NOT a reason; after all, they have enough money to go on holiday...

It should be the first thing to buy when you go on holiday

Why not add 1% to the hotel rooms tax?

Don't give them more ideas!!!! You know the result: they increase hotel tax and extra (medical) tax

Not sure what you expect. Seems reasonable to expect foreigners to be insured.

Very reasonable expectation!! I ALWAYS have insurance (health and travel), because you never know what might happen... (my frustration though is that I am careful and sofar have not made any claims!)

I refuse however to pay for other people who are too stupid to have insurance, for whatever reason. Too expensive is NOT a reason; after all, they have enough money to go on holiday...

It should be the first thing to buy when you go on holiday

That is what happens with many taxes and regulations: you pay because of others.

I Made Pastika, the governor, said that while many foreign tourists already had insurance, that coverage is in their country of origin and it is not clear who will organise their affairs while in Bali.

Obviously he isn't aware of how travelinsurance works

Edited October 31, 201312 yr by F4UCorsair

I Made Pastika, the governor, said that while many foreign tourists already had insurance, that coverage is in their country of origin and it is not clear who will organise their affairs while in Bali.

Obviously he isn't aware of how travelinsurance works

Presumably he was referring to health insurance.

Personally I don't see it as an issue, just look at the number of threads on here from sick pennyless foreigners or people asking where they can get the cheapest medical care. Certainly in the case of the UK, their own Government wont help them so why should the Thais foot the bill?

I have worldwide medical insurance [except USA} why should I pay for more?

Being from Europe I already pay for the "have nots" and also have Medical Insurance so I can receive private care, seems to work there. I guess its a case of attitude, I can see Americans not liking it as they are a little more SELF centred .

Personally I don't see it as an issue, just look at the number of threads on here from sick pennyless foreigners or people asking where they can get the cheapest medical care. Certainly in the case of the UK, their own Government wont help them so why should the Thais foot the bill?

I have worldwide medical insurance [except USA} why should I pay for more?

Being from Europe I already pay for the "have nots" and also have Medical Insurance so I can receive private care, seems to work there. I guess its a case of attitude, I can see Americans not liking it as they are a little more SELF centred .

Being from the USA, we spent all our money defending the chocolate eating, wine growing, (warm) beer swilling surrender monkeys from the commies for 50 years.

I kinda wish we had spent it on universal health care instead.

Edited October 31, 201312 yr by impulse

whatever the charge, it will show a profit

Not if people turn up looking for medical coverage in return for their payment at the airport...

Once you tell people they're being charged for medical expenses, they'll expect to get medical treatment without having to have proper insurance...

It could end up not covering costs...

Personally I don't see it as an issue, just look at the number of threads on here from sick pennyless foreigners or people asking where they can get the cheapest medical care. Certainly in the case of the UK, their own Government wont help them so why should the Thais foot the bill?

I have worldwide medical insurance [except USA} why should I pay for more?

Being from Europe I already pay for the "have nots" and also have Medical Insurance so I can receive private care, seems to work there. I guess its a case of attitude, I can see Americans not liking it as they are a little more SELF centred .

Being from the USA, we spent all our money defending the chocolate eating, wine growing, (warm) beer swilling surrender monkeys from the commies for 50 years.

I kinda wish we had spent it on universal health care instead.

Must have been a good Self serving reason then......

Personally I don't see it as an issue, just look at the number of threads on here from sick pennyless foreigners or people asking where they can get the cheapest medical care. Certainly in the case of the UK, their own Government wont help them so why should the Thais foot the bill?

The yearly bill in Thailand is less than 300 million baht (governments own estimate)

The total fee to be collected in Thailand equals 10 billion baht (governments own estimate).

Could you please explain why it is necessary to collect 33 times more than the actual expenses?

This is to protect the Thai government from the expense of providing medical care for tourists and to ensure that tourist get adequate medical care when in need.

At this time neither the government is compensated nor do the tourists get adequate care.

If this scheme of medical insurance is implemented,the revenues will have to be substantially greater than the costs now, because since the government will be offering care to insured individuals,and since this individuals are insured,the care will have to be substantially greater than the care an uninsured individual will receive today,for obvious reasons (ie, more people will seek medical care more, less people will provide their own coverage than today etc)

thus the costs will be greater .

It makes perfect sense for the Thai government to plan for revenues greater than those need today to finance universal tourist medical care

Edited October 31, 201312 yr by sirineou