More and more red shirts taking a stand against Thai amnesty bill

[webfact]

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill
PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- OPPOSITION against the controversial blanket amnesty bill within the red-shirt movement is growing as the Pheu Thai Party refuses to budge and continues trying to push it through Parliament.

The move is being loudly opposed by activists and intellectuals in the red-shirt camp, such as Thammasat University historian Somsak Jeamteerasakul, political scientist Sirote Klampaiboon, Chulalongkorn University historian Suthachai Yimprasert and former Thammasat University rector Charnvit Kasetsiri to name a few.

Separately, Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong - who led a 200-strong protest against the bill on Sunday - is calling on more red-shirt supporters to show up on November 10 to make their voices heard.

In a post on Facebook, Somsak said the loss of nearly 100 lives in 2010 would be "in vain" if the blanket amnesty bill were pushed through.

Red-shirt lese majeste detainee Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, former editor of the Voice of Taksin and Red Power magazines, said both the Pheu Thai Party and Thaksin Shinawatra would be making "a foolish move", akin to "digging one's own grave", if they continued pushing for the bill.

Jakrapob Penkair, a former Thaksin aide and ex-PM's Office Minister who is living overseas to evade lese majeste charges, earlier this week posted a message on Facebook calling on the ruling party not to betray those who struggled for democracy and the future generation.

Meanwhile, Thaksin's lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, who enjoys a large following on Twitter, tweeted on Monday: "The proposed blanket amnesty provides absolutely no benefit... I am deeply saddened by Pheu Thai's position."

Red-shirt leader and MP Weng Tojirakarn said yesterday that three red-shirt MPs would abstain from voting in the second reading of the amnesty bill. He explained that this abstention was necessary for two reasons: to not confuse people about the red's stance on the issue and to not lend support to the opposition Democrat Party.

He added that he was willing to be punished for going against the Pheu Thai Party, which has been pushing for the bill to be passed. The other two expected to abstain are Deputy Commerce Minister Nattawut Saikua and MP Worachai Hema.

Meanwhile, Thaksin's son Panthongtae posted a message on Facebook saying he and his siblings understood why the red shirts were against the blanket amnesty bill.

"Sud Soi [all the way] amnesty is a moot point because we [the Shinawatra family] would be satisfied with a retrial of cases," he said, asking for an appellate review.


-- The Nation 2013-10-31

[Thai at Heart]

What the hell is Amsterdam chiming on about?

Bizarre.

[notmyself]

Doesn't sound like reconciliation to me.

[Ricardo]

Even Robert Amsterdam is against the PTP-revised Bill ?

And Red-Shirts wouldn't consider holding their noses, and join with the Dems in voting against the Bill, even when their dead members are being betrayed, like this ?

So don't they have as much guts, as the Friends of Newin showed, a few years earlier ???

[MaiChai]

Retrial of Taksin cases with PT in power? I am sure they would win them! Who says there isn't political interference in the judiciary?

[centrala]

Meanwhile, Thaksin's son Panthongtae posted a message on Facebook saying he and his siblings understood why the red shirts were against the blanket amnesty bill.

"Sud Soi [all the way] amnesty is a moot point because we [the Shinawatra family] would be satisfied with a retrial of cases," he said, asking for an appellate review.

So the mealy-mouthed son, Oaf, is claiming Daddy really doesn't want amnesty, but gosh darn it, Daddy didn't appeal his conviction when he had the opportunity and no one has offered him the opportunity for a new trial, so he's forced to acquiesce and accept the amnesty...as much as he really doesn't want to.

Edited October 31, 2013 by centrala

[Thaddeus]

Meanwhile, Thaksin's lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, who enjoys a large following on Twitter, tweeted on Monday: "The proposed blanket amnesty provides absolutely no benefit... I am deeply saddened by Pheu Thai's position."

Of course he is saddened, there is a chance that he is about to lose a major source of income.

The world is running out of dictators and wannabe dictators, thankfully, who else would hire him.

[centrala]

So three Red Shirt MP's plan to wussy out and abstain. Can we take it then that the other nine Red Shirt MP's will totally betray their cause and vote in favor of clemency for those that allegedly killed their Red Shirt comrades?

Oh well, sucks to be Red.

[Mampara]

Beware of all historians, they are very dangerous, they have the ability to rewrite history

[soi41]

So 3 years later, rented thugs, become "heroes" and "freedomfighters"??

[A1Str8]

There is going to be chaos if this bill is going to get pushed through. I can tell these people truly work hard to make it impossible for this country to make any progress.

[bigbamboo]

It would seem the red shirts haven't quite grasped the fall out from the subsequent show trials if there is to a selective amnesty.

[Nickymaster]

"Sud Soi [all the way] amnesty is a moot point because we [the Shinawatra family] would be satisfied with a retrial of cases," he said, asking for an appellate review.

That's plan B guys and completely in line with what Yingluck was preaching to the foreign press when she took office two years back. "We have to look again at the cases against my brother to see if he has been treated fairly".

On a slightly different note, yesterday Yingluck said that she could not tell the coalition MPs to withdraw the bill. It was not in her power to order them what to do..

Two days back Thaksin warned all coalition MPs to vote in favor of the bill or face the consequences. First we had the excuse that PT could not order the Red shirts and their leaders what to do and now we have the PM saying that she cannot order PT what to do.

The Shins are truly the masters of creating confusion. But now they seem to be tangled in their own webs.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Bakseeda]

There is going to be chaos if this bill is going to get pushed through. I can tell these people truly work hard to make it impossible for this country to make any progress.

Hate to tell you mate... There is chaos right NOW....

[Baerboxer]

People are at last waking up and recognizing that despite all the previous denials, smoke and mirrors, wriggling, wrangling, threats, nice speaches etc etc - this is all about one thing and one thing alone. Thaksin wants to return and take power - unchecked and unbalanced power, People see the increased levels of ineptitude and corruption PTP have brought, the open lies and illegal actions. The squandering of the countries wealth and personal enrichment. The educatied people that see this don't want the convicted criminal back, regardless that he owns the government. PTP are starting to loose control of the uneducated masses now some of them are also beginning to see PTP for what they are - a clan out for themselves and their leader, at any cost and regardless of consequences.

This is really make or break time for PTP - they've been trying to find a way to get this through, and have now come to the edge.

[virtualtraveller]

In theory the red shirts, a millions of them minions, should be drawing the line on this. But, of course, without paying them to protest, only 200 show up. Says something about their real numbers.

[waza]

October 22, 2013 1:00 am "Separately, Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn, who is also a red-shirt leader, said yesterday that he and the red shirts were opposed to the blanket amnesty proposal. However, he said he believed the ruling party would eventually pass the original version of MP Worachai Hema's bill as it had no choice but to heed the demands of the red-shirt people. He added that several Pheu Thai MPs also disagreed with the vetting panel's version of the bill.
"The Pheu Thai Party must respect the will of the red shirts, otherwise I don't know what will happen," he said." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Listen-to-the-public-Pheu-Thai-advised-30217683.html

What happened Weng was it only took you 9 days to sell out your people.

The Nation 2013-10-31 "Red-shirt leader and MP Weng Tojirakarn said yesterday that three red-shirt MPs would abstain from voting in the second reading of the amnesty bill. He explained that this abstention was necessary for two reasons: to not confuse people about the red's stance on the issue and to not lend support to the opposition Democrat Party."

[jayboy]

Meanwhile, Thaksin's lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, who enjoys a large following on Twitter, tweeted on Monday: "The proposed blanket amnesty provides absolutely no benefit... I am deeply saddened by Pheu Thai's position."

Of course he is saddened, there is a chance that he is about to lose a major source of income.

The world is running out of dictators and wannabe dictators, thankfully, who else would hire him.

But since Robert Amsterdam's international record has been campaigning against dictatorship, your comment is particularly fatuous.Just ignorant bar talk

His comment about the revised amnesty reflects the views of many including myself that this is a ridiculous and inappropriate step that reflects very badly on the PTP and Thaksin (and presents a free gift to the likes of Suthep)

[fab4]

What the hell is Amsterdam chiming on about?

Bizarre.

What is so hard to understand about his stance? He was taken on by Thaksin to serve as International Lawyer and Advisor to the UDD, not the PTP.

[rogerdee123]

October 22, 2013 1:00 am "Separately, Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn, who is also a red-shirt leader, said yesterday that he and the red shirts were opposed to the blanket amnesty proposal. However, he said he believed the ruling party would eventually pass the original version of MP Worachai Hema's bill as it had no choice but to heed the demands of the red-shirt people. He added that several Pheu Thai MPs also disagreed with the vetting panel's version of the bill.

"The Pheu Thai Party must respect the will of the red shirts, otherwise I don't know what will happen," he said." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Listen-to-the-public-Pheu-Thai-advised-30217683.html

What happened Weng was it only took you 9 days to sell out your people.

The Nation 2013-10-31 "Red-shirt leader and MP Weng Tojirakarn said yesterday that three red-shirt MPs would abstain from voting in the second reading of the amnesty bill. He explained that this abstention was necessary for two reasons: to not confuse people about the red's stance on the issue and to not lend support to the opposition Democrat Party."

"What happened Weng was it only took you 9 days to sell out your people."

It took that long for the cheque to clear

[fab4]

Even Robert Amsterdam is against the PTP-revised Bill ?

And Red-Shirts wouldn't consider holding their noses, and join with the Dems in voting against the Bill, even when their dead members are being betrayed, like this ?

So don't they have as much guts, as the Friends of Newin showed, a few years earlier ???

Firstly Amsterdam has been retained as Lawyer to the UDD, not the PTP.

Some UDD MP's are abstaining against the bill which has the same effect as voting against but without the stigma of siding with the democrats. Can't see what the problem is except that they should all abstain..

And if you think the Friends of Newin had "guts" to move over to the dems you are dreadfully naive. It was money.

[waza]

Meanwhile, Thaksin's lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, who enjoys a large following on Twitter, tweeted on Monday: "The proposed blanket amnesty provides absolutely no benefit... I am deeply saddened by Pheu Thai's position."

Of course he is saddened, there is a chance that he is about to lose a major source of income.

The world is running out of dictators and wannabe dictators, thankfully, who else would hire him.

But since Robert Amsterdam's international record has been campaigning against dictatorship, your comment is particularly fatuous.Just ignorant bar talk

His comment about the revised amnesty reflects the views of many including myself that this is a ridiculous and inappropriate step that reflects very badly on the PTP and Thaksin (and presents a free gift to the likes of Suthep)

Ow that stung enough for you to flame him as an ignorant bar fly, jayboy. I didn't realise you and Fab4 were so close to Amsterdam.

"He was taken on by Thaksin to serve as International Lawyer and Advisor to the UDD, not the PTP."

So Thaksin is paying the UDD's legal bills to fight his own amnesty bill, Fab4?

Edited October 31, 2013 by waza

[Nickymaster]

What the hell is Amsterdam chiming on about?

Bizarre.

Strange indeed. Amsterdam claims he gets paid by Thaksin, who is the big boss of PT and who is the big boss of the Red shirts. But Amsterdam doesn't agree with amnesty for his (paymaster) client.

My red friend fab4 could you please explain how to make sense out of this mess. I am sure you can.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Nickymaster

[fab4]

What the hell is Amsterdam chiming on about?

Bizarre.

Strange indeed. Amsterdam claims he gets paid by Thaksin, who is the big boss of PT and who is the big boss of the Red shirts. But Amsterdam doesn't agree with amnesty for his (paymaster) client.

My red friend fab4 could you please explain how to make sense out of this mess. I am sure you can.

I am not your red friend. Do you never read the tread before posting?

[jayboy]

Meanwhile, Thaksin's lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, who enjoys a large following on Twitter, tweeted on Monday: "The proposed blanket amnesty provides absolutely no benefit... I am deeply saddened by Pheu Thai's position."

Of course he is saddened, there is a chance that he is about to lose a major source of income.

The world is running out of dictators and wannabe dictators, thankfully, who else would hire him.

But since Robert Amsterdam's international record has been campaigning against dictatorship, your comment is particularly fatuous.Just ignorant bar talk

His comment about the revised amnesty reflects the views of many including myself that this is a ridiculous and inappropriate step that reflects very badly on the PTP and Thaksin (and presents a free gift to the likes of Suthep)

Ow that stung enough for you to flame him as an ignorant bar fly, jayboy. I didn't realise you and Fab4 were so close to Amsterdam.

"He was taken on by Thaksin to serve as International Lawyer and Advisor to the UDD, not the PTP."

So Thaksin is paying the UDD's legal bills to fight his own amnesty bill, Fab4?

Stung? I responded to rank stupidity (suggesting that Amsterdam's stand was driven by the prospect of lost income).Amsterdam's involvement in the fight against repression is a matter of record, in Zambia and Russia for example as well as Thailand.Anyone can research this though you obviously have been too lazy to do so or too entrenched in prejudice.He is a certainly paid lobbyist but he does not work for principles he does not share.The current PTP/Thaksin initiative on the broad amnesty is clearly wrong, and Amsterdam notwithstanding his affiliations has had the honesty to say so.He should be praised for his integrity.

[waza]

Of course he is saddened, there is a chance that he is about to lose a major source of income.

The world is running out of dictators and wannabe dictators, thankfully, who else would hire him.

But since Robert Amsterdam's international record has been campaigning against dictatorship, your comment is particularly fatuous.Just ignorant bar talk

His comment about the revised amnesty reflects the views of many including myself that this is a ridiculous and inappropriate step that reflects very badly on the PTP and Thaksin (and presents a free gift to the likes of Suthep)

Ow that stung enough for you to flame him as an ignorant bar fly, jayboy. I didn't realise you and Fab4 were so close to Amsterdam.

"He was taken on by Thaksin to serve as International Lawyer and Advisor to the UDD, not the PTP."

So Thaksin is paying the UDD's legal bills to fight his own amnesty bill, Fab4?

Stung? I responded to rank stupidity (suggesting that Amsterdam's stand was driven by the prospect of lost income).Amsterdam's involvement in the fight against repression is a matter of record, in Zambia and Russia for example as well as Thailand.Anyone can research this though you obviously have been too lazy to do so or too entrenched in prejudice.He is a certainly paid lobbyist but he does not work for principles he does not share.The current PTP/Thaksin initiative on the broad amnesty is clearly wrong, and Amsterdam notwithstanding his affiliations has had the honesty to say so.He should be praised for his integrity.

No need to flame me aswell, jayboy, "too lazy to do so or too entrenched in prejudice", I didn't say a bad word about your hero. Just suggested if he take a clients money and uses it against that client may be a conflict of interest.

[waza]

Of course he is saddened, there is a chance that he is about to lose a major source of income.

The world is running out of dictators and wannabe dictators, thankfully, who else would hire him.

But since Robert Amsterdam's international record has been campaigning against dictatorship, your comment is particularly fatuous.Just ignorant bar talk

His comment about the revised amnesty reflects the views of many including myself that this is a ridiculous and inappropriate step that reflects very badly on the PTP and Thaksin (and presents a free gift to the likes of Suthep)

Ow that stung enough for you to flame him as an ignorant bar fly, jayboy. I didn't realise you and Fab4 were so close to Amsterdam.

"He was taken on by Thaksin to serve as International Lawyer and Advisor to the UDD, not the PTP."

So Thaksin is paying the UDD's legal bills to fight his own amnesty bill, Fab4?

Stung? I responded to rank stupidity (suggesting that Amsterdam's stand was driven by the prospect of lost income).Amsterdam's involvement in the fight against repression is a matter of record, in Zambia and Russia for example as well as Thailand.Anyone can research this though you obviously have been too lazy to do so or too entrenched in prejudice.He is a certainly paid lobbyist but he does not work for principles he does not share.The current PTP/Thaksin initiative on the broad amnesty is clearly wrong, and Amsterdam notwithstanding his affiliations has had the honesty to say so.He should be praised for his integrity.

No need to flame me as well, jayboy, "too lazy to do so or too entrenched in prejudice", I didn't say a bad word about your hero. Just suggested if he take a clients money and uses it against that client it may be a conflict of interest. Thaksin should look into that and what value he is getting from his cyber warrior program.

Edited October 31, 2013 by waza

[fab4]

But since Robert Amsterdam's international record has been campaigning against dictatorship, your comment is particularly fatuous.Just ignorant bar talk

His comment about the revised amnesty reflects the views of many including myself that this is a ridiculous and inappropriate step that reflects very badly on the PTP and Thaksin (and presents a free gift to the likes of Suthep)

Ow that stung enough for you to flame him as an ignorant bar fly, jayboy. I didn't realise you and Fab4 were so close to Amsterdam.

"He was taken on by Thaksin to serve as International Lawyer and Advisor to the UDD, not the PTP."

So Thaksin is paying the UDD's legal bills to fight his own amnesty bill, Fab4?

"So Thaksin is paying the UDD's legal bills to fight his own amnesty bill, Fab4?"

I wish you people would just think before posting or at least do some research. From Amsterdams twitter page

1. 7:41 PM - 21 Oct 13 · Details
2. ห.น.เก่า-โลโก้ใหม่ ‏@sowhat321 Oct

   @robertamsterdam Also feel that PT party should pass this amnesty law for those now in jail. Amnesty for Thaksin should be in another law.

   Details
3. ห.น.เก่า-โลโก้ใหม่ ‏@sowhat321 Oct

   @robertamsterdam Majority of Thai feel that Thaksin was treated unjustly by junta. So let's be brave to give him back the justice we owe him

"Amnesty for Thaksin should be in another law." Doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not, that's what he said.

[Ricardo]

Even Robert Amsterdam is against the PTP-revised Bill ?

And Red-Shirts wouldn't consider holding their noses, and join with the Dems in voting against the Bill, even when their dead members are being betrayed, like this ?

So don't they have as much guts, as the Friends of Newin showed, a few years earlier ???

Firstly Amsterdam has been retained as Lawyer to the UDD, not the PTP.

Some UDD MP's are abstaining against the bill which has the same effect as voting against but without the stigma of siding with the democrats. Can't see what the problem is except that they should all abstain..

And if you think the Friends of Newin had "guts" to move over to the dems you are dreadfully naive. It was money.

I think you'll find that, long before RA was hired to help the UDD, he was working overseas already on behalf of the Big Boss, "One Boss To Rule Them All" as Tolkien might put it.

I agree with you that, if they had any integrity, all, all the Red-Shirt leaders currently protected by being PTP-MPs would abstain, or protest when Thaksin tells all PTP-MPs (including themselves) that they must support the amended Bill, no matter how wrong they think it is to absolve Abhisit & Suthep from the guilt which they are told they carry.

But that wouldn't suit Thaksin, he wants the appearance of 100%-support, as he tries to regain his lost-face.

And you don't believe that money has changed hands, between the former-PM & his latest TRT/PPP/PTP supporters, or with UDD ?

I support many of the aims of the Red-Shirts, if only their leaders hadn't sold-out to the new-amart represented by the S-clan, who are now mostly willing to abandon any chance of justice for their dead/injured followers, on Thaksin's orders. That disgusts me ... although by all means call me "naive" ... if you don't think they're being betrayed on the altar of Thaksin's ambitions.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Ricardo