Ways to settle wrong termination of contract from employer in BOI company?

[cmcompdoctor]

Hi,

My wife just got fired for tedious reasons from her employer, she is foreign and worked for a BOI company, they fired her for misconduct with no tangible proofs, what can we do to settle the dispute? Should we hire a lawyer or go to the Labour department directly?

Thanks for answers, any help is appreciated.

[thaicbr]

Initially go to the Labour dept. Not sure if BOI companies have different rules. They can yell you. Good luck.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

[cmcompdoctor]

Will go tomorrow indeed, anyone had previous experience with such cases?

Do I need to make a file to have things to show or can I go directly?

Thanks

[jdinasia]

Agreed, go to labor court first. If your wife had not worked there for over a year it may not be worth pursuing. If she had worked there for over a year then you may want to go. I needed to bring an interpreter with me when I dealt with labor court in Chiang Mai even though my Thai language ability is pretty good.

[jdinasia]

You need to bring everything you have on the case with you. At the very least you need a copy of her contract and work permit. If there were any warnings from the company issued, they will need those too.

[cmcompdoctor]

She worked for over a year indeed, I do have the copy of the contract and the WP as well, will go tomorrow and see where its going, will keep people informed here.

Thanks for answers.

[BangkokWildcat]

Do some research on Thai Labor Law via Google. This is the only part of the Thai Judicial System that seems to actually work very well here...and in favor of the employees most of the time! There is a ton of info out there on this (ie. Severance pay required, reasons / methods needed to fire someone, etc.).

Make sure she doesn't sign anything like a resignation letter, etc. till you are happy with the terms. At the end of the day, unless she really did something criminal, they have to have provided her multiple warnings for these "tedious" reasons (assuming they even warrant a dismissal).

Your noting that it's a BOI company (as is mine) would indicate that they are probably that much more likely to want to avoid any litigation or unnecessary hassle with the Labor Court. Good luck and be sure to post the outcome please.

P.S. Here is one link but there is a ton of info out there....http://www.doingbusinessthailand.com/blog-thailand/thai-labor-protection-how-to-terminate-and-employee.html

Edited November 7, 2013 by BangkokWildcat

[BangkokWildcat]

Another comment too.....they must provide at least one full months payroll notice (ie. if she gets paid on the 15th like I do, then they would have to notify her on the Nov. 14th or before and still pay her her salary until Dec. 14th. as her period of 'notice'. So that means at least one months pay (usually more) in addition to at least 3 months severance pay (assuming she worked over 1 year but < 3 years per the below table:

SEVERANCE PAY CLAIM

More than 120 days but less than 1 year

30 days

Advance Notice

not Included

More than 1 year but less than 3 years

90 days

More than 3 years but less than 6 years

180 days

More than 6 years but less than 10 years

240 days

10 years and up 300 days

300 days

That, in addition, to the "Advance Notice" would make it a minimum of 4 months + compensation at stake here. Again, make sure to do your research first, don't sign anything that is less than the above comp., and if not happy at all, then go to get a lawyer. I think that you most likely would have a good case as it doesn't sound like they gave any compensation or warning but you didn't provide much detail on that yet.

[cmcompdoctor]

Thanks for all these information and I will be sure to let you know the outcome

[cmcompdoctor]

Just pops ut to say that they did not offer anything, I was not even aware of the severance and if they do they did not mentionned it, They just offered to pay her until the end of this month (if thats an offer).

They quoted a message out of context took on Skype from my wife to her team leader as proof of her misconduct, I have serious doubts it is even receivable.

I am printing all documents and will go City Hall tomorrow morning and I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again for the replies.

[jdinasia]

Chances are if that message (in or out of context) could not be proven to cause damage to the company then the only proper thing for them to do is to give a verbal warning to your wife. If she had rec'd a verbal warning in the past then the next step is a written warning. Then termination.

K. Krit that used to be with Sunbelt up there would be a worthy interpreter if he has time. (I am assuming you are in CNX) ... The team he is with now does all types of law. Krit's area of expertise includes contract law. He is not a litigator. If you have to go to court all of your expenses should be covered by your wife's employer as well as any collection fees ..If you end up having to file on them then I think you can add breech of contract to the other things you try to get from them.

[cmcompdoctor]

Here is the sentence used : I just want you to take note that I am unhappy with the blackmail I just received from ***** (about the wages and their kind offer to pay the last month salary) I am tired of your repeated lies.

I fail to see how this could cause any damage on the company as, like I said, it was a private conversation in Skype, she did received a written warning tho, but the contract stipulate that the employee is entitled to 3 warnings before a termination of contract, I would like to point out that it was not sent by post with signature as the law stipulate either.

Actually leaving the company or being fired is not the issue, the real issue is the terms, and for sure we do not agree on the terms.

Will try to go by myself to the City Hall tomorrow (I am indeed in CNX) and if I cant figure it out by myself I would appreciate you to give me K. Krit contact.

Thanks again for answering.

[cmcompdoctor]

We went to the CNX City Hall at 1pm, there is now a very nice English speaking woman that comes two days a week for the purpose of learning Thai and she helps farangs with all questions they might have, she is there on Monday and Friday.

The complain was filed and I'll be sure to let you know how it is going.

Thanks again for support

[Soutpeel]

Here is the sentence used : I just want you to take note that I am unhappy with the blackmail I just received from ***** (about the wages and their kind offer to pay the last month salary) I am tired of your repeated lies.

I fail to see how this could cause any damage on the company as, like I said, it was a private conversation in Skype, she did received a written warning tho, but the contract stipulate that the employee is entitled to 3 warnings before a termination of contract, I would like to point out that it was not sent by post with signature as the law stipulate either.

Actually leaving the company or being fired is not the issue, the real issue is the terms, and for sure we do not agree on the terms.

Will try to go by myself to the City Hall tomorrow (I am indeed in CNX) and if I cant figure it out by myself I would appreciate you to give me K. Krit contact.

Thanks again for answering.

Was the private conversation on a company computer/system ?....the certainly not a private conversation then

Further given the "liable" laws in Thailand accusing people of blackmail and calling them liars in writing could be interpreted as gross misconduct therefore written warnings may not apply it could be automatic dismissal and no severance applicable

Just my take on this

[brit1984]

i think most employers (in the world) would terminate the contract (without warning) of an employee making such accusations

in most circumstances, blackmail is a crime - if that is what happened (and she has evidence) she should report it to the police

if not, she needs to be careful that any legal action she pursues with regards to the dismissal process is not counter productive

good luck

[cmcompdoctor]

Here is the sentence used : I just want you to take note that I am unhappy with the blackmail I just received from ***** (about the wages and their kind offer to pay the last month salary) I am tired of your repeated lies.

I fail to see how this could cause any damage on the company as, like I said, it was a private conversation in Skype, she did received a written warning tho, but the contract stipulate that the employee is entitled to 3 warnings before a termination of contract, I would like to point out that it was not sent by post with signature as the law stipulate either.

Actually leaving the company or being fired is not the issue, the real issue is the terms, and for sure we do not agree on the terms.

Will try to go by myself to the City Hall tomorrow (I am indeed in CNX) and if I cant figure it out by myself I would appreciate you to give me K. Krit contact.

Thanks again for answering.

Was the private conversation on a company computer/system ?....the certainly not a private conversation then

Further given the "liable" laws in Thailand accusing people of blackmail and calling them liars in writing could be interpreted as gross misconduct therefore written warnings may not apply it could be automatic dismissal and no severance applicable

Just my take on this

The conversation was from home to her team leader, they did blackmailed her saying she should leave immedialtly without any notice or severance while she was trying to negotiate, the conversation was in French and quoted in French out of context in the letter, the Team Leader choosed to report the conversation to the direction but again out of a private conversation on a media that the company does not own.

I would totally agree if that accusation was made public and/or made on an internal chat system tho.

Edited November 8, 2013 by cmcompdoctor

[Soutpeel]

Here is the sentence used : I just want you to take note that I am unhappy with the blackmail I just received from ***** (about the wages and their kind offer to pay the last month salary) I am tired of your repeated lies.

I fail to see how this could cause any damage on the company as, like I said, it was a private conversation in Skype, she did received a written warning tho, but the contract stipulate that the employee is entitled to 3 warnings before a termination of contract, I would like to point out that it was not sent by post with signature as the law stipulate either.

Actually leaving the company or being fired is not the issue, the real issue is the terms, and for sure we do not agree on the terms.

Will try to go by myself to the City Hall tomorrow (I am indeed in CNX) and if I cant figure it out by myself I would appreciate you to give me K. Krit contact.

Thanks again for answering.

Was the private conversation on a company computer/system ?....the certainly not a private conversation then

Further given the "liable" laws in Thailand accusing people of blackmail and calling them liars in writing could be interpreted as gross misconduct therefore written warnings may not apply it could be automatic dismissal and no severance applicable

Just my take on this

The conversation was from home to her team leader, they did blackmailed her saying she should leave immedialtly without any notice or severance while she was trying to negotiate, the conversation was in French and quoted in French out of context in the letter, the Team Leader choosed to report the conversation to the direction but again out of a private conversation on a media that the company does not own.

I would totally agree if that accusation was made public and/or made on an internal chat system tho.

The language something was written in, is irrelevant, the media used is irrelevant, trying to pressure someone to leave is not blackmail per se......personally I don't believe that you have a wrongfully dismissal case and it would appear the company has acted correctly and dismissed someone for gross misconduct and if the labour court agrees you will get nothing

[WonnabeBiker]

Forget the Labour Dept. and go to the Regional Labour Court! it might help to bring a translator.

It will be free for her and they will have a lawyer plead her case at the arbitration meeting in a few weeks' time.

Was she fired with or without observing the notice period? When was she fired? Thai law requires terminations to be made at the same time someone gets paid. Unless it's for some serious offense.

There will be severance if she had worked there for at least 100 or 120 days, I forgot which. The minimum will be 30 days pay.

Go for it, don't delay!

[cmcompdoctor]

i think most employers (in the world) would terminate the contract (without warning) of an employee making such accusations

in most circumstances, blackmail is a crime - if that is what happened (and she has evidence) she should report it to the police

if not, she needs to be careful that any legal action she pursues with regards to the dismissal process is not counter productive

good luck

You can find a legal definition of blackmail here :

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/blackmail

If I'm not mistaken forcing someone to do something against his or her will is actually blackmail, forcing someone to leave without notice unpaid should be a case of blackmail especially when you try to negotiate in good terms to start with.

If this story goes up to court I have indeed plenty of content, my goal here is not to spread rumors about X or Y company, my goal was to seek help as I am not familiar with such cases in Thailand.

My questions have been answered tho, thanks for that and be sure I will post the outcome as soon as it comes to terms.

[isawasnake]

Chances are if that message (in or out of context) could not be proven to cause damage to the company then the only proper thing for them to do is to give a verbal warning to your wife. If she had rec'd a verbal warning in the past then the next step is a written warning. Then termination.

K. Krit that used to be with Sunbelt up there would be a worthy interpreter if he has time. (I am assuming you are in CNX) ... The team he is with now does all types of law. Krit's area of expertise includes contract law. He is not a litigator. If you have to go to court all of your expenses should be covered by your wife's employer as well as any collection fees ..If you end up having to file on them then I think you can add breech of contract to the other things you try to get from them.

So, if they do follow that pattern of verbal, written then termination, are they off the hook for the most part? I guess it would depend on if they could prove the employee caused damage to the company? Thanks for any input.