"40 Senators Group" boycotting today's amnesty bill debate

[thaicbr]

Sounds like this "Group of 40" are not going to let the gov't ramrod this amnesty bill down their throats at the demands of a fugitive criminal. Good on them!

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Monday being the original day proposed for the deliberation of said bill.. Why are they trying SOOOO hard to do it earlier? Can you answer that one while drinking?

[siampolee]

GentlemanJim post # 30.

My Theory

The Senators are opposition Senators. the Government has been forced in to a corner by the protests and after canceling the other 6 draft bills are left with this one. They (the Government) are doing exactly what they said they would not do....they are interfering with the Senate. The Government have lobbied the Speaker of the Senate to rush the handling of the amnesty bill through, even if it is a no go, because the Government cannot risk the escalation of public opinion and the swelling numbers of protesters that will gather momentum over the weekend. The 40 senators are saying 'ram it' we were timetabled for Monday, that is when we will debate it and if the Government are sitting on hot coals because of their own stupidity then burn baby burn. It is a sweet move and gives Suthep and his Gang the whole weekend to whip the country up into a frenzy of anti-amnesty and anti-corruption. A splendid move, not quite 'mate' but definitely 'check'!

Perhaps these senators are taking a leaf out of Benjamin Franklin's book.

''Today is wort two tomorrows.''

[Baerboxer]

My Theory

The Senators are opposition Senators. the Government has been forced in to a corner by the protests and after canceling the other 6 draft bills are left with this one. They (the Government) are doing exactly what they said they would not do....they are interfering with the Senate. The Government have lobbied the Speaker of the Senate to rush the handling of the amnesty bill through, even if it is a no go, because the Government cannot risk the escalation of public opinion and the swelling numbers of protesters that will gather momentum over the weekend. The 40 senators are saying 'ram it' we were timetabled for Monday, that is when we will debate it and if the Government are sitting on hot coals because of their own stupidity then burn baby burn. It is a sweet move and gives Suthep and his Gang the whole weekend to whip the country up into a frenzy of anti-amnesty and anti-corruption. A splendid move, not quite 'mate' but definitely 'check'!

Good analysis Jimbo! I guess the caddie advised the golfer to try this, Push the senate to debate, reject it, send back to the house. Yinggy promises to respect the views of the senate and "will of the people". All the protesters go home and not start poking their noses into other things like the rice scam, water management and infrastructure income streams.

Then, in 180 days the bill can be simply submitted by the house, as the one and only remaining bill, for Royal approval. Yinggy can keep on making silly remarks and telling lies, and with a bit of luck public sentiment won't be so roused in another 180 days.

Anyone who thinks this is over is in for a surprise - and not a nice one! The protesters are right to stay put for now.

[fab4]

Sounds like this "Group of 40" are not going to let the gov't ramrod this amnesty bill down their throats at the demands of a fugitive criminal. Good on them!

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Monday being the original day proposed for the deliberation of said bill.. Why are they trying SOOOO hard to do it earlier? Can you answer that one while drinking?

A couple of beers a weekend watching the football would hardly impair my ability to not really care whether the amnesty bill is deliberated today or two days later. If you want to dig out your tin foil hat be my guest.

[metisdead]

A post miss-using another member's name has been removed as well as a reply.

[jonclark]

My dear fabby, here your are totally incorrect.

The group of 40 senators is not delaying, but preventing advancing the deliberation of the 'blanket amnesty' bill. I'm surprised you didn't get that. Lots of senators touring the country to get the opinion of Thai citizens, preparing themselves for the debat Monday.

All this pressure to get things done seems strange. Does the government get upset with all those protesters or are they up to funny tricks?

Sounds like this "Group of 40" are not going to let the gov't ramrod this amnesty bill down their throats at the demands of a fugitive criminal. Good on them!

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Will you please f off with the dear fabby <deleted>, it's pissing me off .If you continue with it I shall draw the conclusion that you are deliberately doing it and therefore are behaving like a stupid child. Cease and desist , really. .

What kind of dictionary do you have that tells you there is a difference between delaying and not advancing?

lol - I have a funny feeling that from this day forth you shall be know only as 'dear fabby'

[GentlemanJim]

My dear fabby, here your are totally incorrect.

The group of 40 senators is not delaying, but preventing advancing the deliberation of the 'blanket amnesty' bill. I'm surprised you didn't get that. Lots of senators touring the country to get the opinion of Thai citizens, preparing themselves for the debat Monday.

All this pressure to get things done seems strange. Does the government get upset with all those protesters or are they up to funny tricks?

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Will you please f off with the dear fabby <deleted>, it's pissing me off .If you continue with it I shall draw the conclusion that you are deliberately doing it and therefore are behaving like a stupid child. Cease and desist , really. .

What kind of dictionary do you have that tells you there is a difference between delaying and not advancing?

lol - I have a funny feeling that from this day forth you shall be know only as 'dear fabby'

I kind of like it, it makes you seem a bit more human fabby. It gives you that friendly warm sound, the kind that most red/PTP apologists lack so much.

[PeterSmiles]

Oh dear. Are these idiots really going to prevent a quorom?

Does anyone anywhere in this country understand the concept of public service and sacrifice?

Well, maybe someone should first give these " idiots " , and the rest of the population of course, a valid explanation why at once the voting has to be advanced .

[waza]

Sounds like this "Group of 40" are not going to let the gov't ramrod this amnesty bill down their throats at the demands of a fugitive criminal. Good on them!

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Monday being the original day proposed for the deliberation of said bill.. Why are they trying SOOOO hard to do it earlier? Can you answer that one while drinking?

Dear Fab4 et al, the reason the Thaksin proxy government wants this issue out the way before Monday is because they want the streets clear of protestors before the...........

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague will decide on Nov. 11 whether Cambodia or Thailand should administer a 4.6-square kilometer (1.8-square mile) tract of land surrounding the 11th century Preah Vihear temple, following a hearing on the case in April....... “I, along with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, the Thai defense minister, have agreed that regardless of the outcome of the ICJ decision on Nov. 11, the two countries must comply with the verdict and work to maintain peace and stability along the border,” Hun Sen said." http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/verdict-11072013140926.html

Also they may want to railroad the 2 constitutional changes through the senate while they are there.

Heres some validation.........

“The government has bowed to the point that it is engaged in conflicts with Red Shirt people. The opponents, however, would not give up and announced that the amnesty bill must be rejected on Nov 11 – the day that the Preah Vihear border dispute is decided by the World Court,” said Mr Charupong. “If the ICJ’s verdict is not in favour of Thailand, the protesters will use it as a condition to topple the government.” .........

An informed source said the Interior Ministry has issued a confidential order to all provincial governors, instructing them to produce banners which read “Be kind and forgive for Thailand to overcome conflicts” to be set up in public places. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/680278-jatuporn-claims-protesters-seek-to-topple-the-government/?p=7015363

Edited November 8, 2013 by waza

[thaicbr]

Sounds like this "Group of 40" are not going to let the gov't ramrod this amnesty bill down their throats at the demands of a fugitive criminal. Good on them!

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Monday being the original day proposed for the deliberation of said bill.. Why are they trying SOOOO hard to do it earlier? Can you answer that one while drinking?

A couple of beers a weekend watching the football would hardly impair my ability to not really care whether the amnesty bill is deliberated today or two days later. If you want to dig out your tin foil hat be my guest.

As usual you don't get the point! enjoy your beer and football.

[GrantSmith]

The other paper reporting that no quorom was reached so the reading of the bill will revert to Monday as originally scheduled.

The G40 didn't turn up, 13 Senators that did turn up late wouldn't join the debate and a number of others were up/down/side country... They needed 74 to attend, they got 68...

[FangFerang]

There is an announcement of a red shirt rally Sunday. Both sides are more than willing to start a cionflict to retain power, but none of the players are on the battlefield. It has been this way throughout human history.

I honestly worry that the issue, delayed or prolonged, might cause a civil war. One side won't share power, and the other side abuses power to win a seat at the clubhouse.

Neither is budging.

Smells like a coup to me, and THAT will light the red stick of dynamite.

[Lite Beer]

Senate to reconvene Monday to 'withhold' amnesty bill: Speaker

BANGKOK: -- Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatphanich told Friday's Senate meeting that the Senate meeting on the controversial amnesty bill would be postponed to Monday.

He informed the Friday Senate meeting after he held a talk with the Group of 40 senators, who refused to enter the assembly hall.

Nikom informed 69 senators in the assembly hall that the meeting would be postponed to Monday when the bill would be "withheld".

Without the presence of Group of 40 senators, the Friday meeting lacked quorum to proceed with the bill deliberation but Nikom allowed present senators to go on making informal discussion.

-- The Nation 2013-11-08

[PeterSmiles]

Senate to reconvene Monday to 'withhold' amnesty bill: Speaker

BANGKOK: -- Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatphanich told Friday's Senate meeting that the Senate meeting on the controversial amnesty bill would be postponed to Monday.

He informed the Friday Senate meeting after he held a talk with the Group of 40 senators, who refused to enter the assembly hall.

Nikom informed 69 senators in the assembly hall that the meeting would be postponed to Monday when the bill would be "withheld".

Without the presence of Group of 40 senators, the Friday meeting lacked quorum to proceed with the bill deliberation but Nikom allowed present senators to go on making informal discussion.

-- The Nation 2013-11-08

Postponed to Monday ? I thought that was the initial date set to discuss the bill.

Anyway, Nikom has tried his best, let's hope Thaksin isn't too harsh on his failure.

[metisdead]

There is to be No Discussion Of The Monarchy In Political Context, one post has been removed.

[KhunOr]

There is to be No Discussion Of The Monarchy In Political Context, one post has been removed.

Perhaps FangFerang would like to repost his removed post, without the offending reference. The rest was spot on and very well written. Please.

[metisdead]

There is to be No Discussion Of The Monarchy In Political Context, one post has been removed.

Perhaps FangFerang would like to repost his removed post, without the offending reference. The rest was spot on and very well written. Please.

He is free to do so.

[fab4]

Sounds like this "Group of 40" are not going to let the gov't ramrod this amnesty bill down their throats at the demands of a fugitive criminal. Good on them!

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Monday being the original day proposed for the deliberation of said bill.. Why are they trying SOOOO hard to do it earlier? Can you answer that one while drinking?

Dear Fab4 et al, the reason the Thaksin proxy government wants this issue out the way before Monday is because they want the streets clear of protestors before the...........

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague will decide on Nov. 11 whether Cambodia or Thailand should administer a 4.6-square kilometer (1.8-square mile) tract of land surrounding the 11th century Preah Vihear temple, following a hearing on the case in April....... “I, along with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, the Thai defense minister, have agreed that regardless of the outcome of the ICJ decision on Nov. 11, the two countries must comply with the verdict and work to maintain peace and stability along the border,” Hun Sen said." http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/verdict-11072013140926.html

Also they may want to railroad the 2 constitutional changes through the senate while they are there.

Heres some validation.........

“The government has bowed to the point that it is engaged in conflicts with Red Shirt people. The opponents, however, would not give up and announced that the amnesty bill must be rejected on Nov 11 – the day that the Preah Vihear border dispute is decided by the World Court,” said Mr Charupong. “If the ICJ’s verdict is not in favour of Thailand, the protesters will use it as a condition to topple the government.” .........

An informed source said the Interior Ministry has issued a confidential order to all provincial governors, instructing them to produce banners which read “Be kind and forgive for Thailand to overcome conflicts” to be set up in public places. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/680278-jatuporn-claims-protesters-seek-to-topple-the-government/?p=7015363

The theory is the government wants all this unpleasantness got rid off by the time the publishing of the ICJ verdict due on the 11th November.

I don't think that the government or the senate for that matter expect that the deliberation of the amnesty bill will be over in one day. Furthermore I do not think that the government expect to clear the streets of protesters in two days.

So conspiracy theory - not really viable is it?

[Artisi]

Senate to reconvene Monday to 'withhold' amnesty bill: Speaker

BANGKOK: -- Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatphanich told Friday's Senate meeting that the Senate meeting on the controversial amnesty bill would be postponed to Monday.

He informed the Friday Senate meeting after he held a talk with the Group of 40 senators, who refused to enter the assembly hall.

Nikom informed 69 senators in the assembly hall that the meeting would be postponed to Monday when the bill would be "withheld".

Without the presence of Group of 40 senators, the Friday meeting lacked quorum to proceed with the bill deliberation but Nikom allowed present senators to go on making informal discussion.

-- The Nation 2013-11-08

Postponed to Monday ? I thought that was the initial date set to discuss the bill.

Anyway, Nikom has tried his best, let's hope Thaksin isn't too harsh on his failure.

Someone is sure to throw their teddy-bear out of the pram over the weekend followed by a little dummy-spit.

Just hoping he gets his little ar_rse smacked really hard for being such a naughty boy.

[gerry1011]

Are these 40 appointed Senators from PTP by any chance?

Of course not.

Be careful not to blame the wrong guys

The "40 senators group" is a group of senators that are critics of the current government... since long already. It is known by everybody, so you should know that too.

Be nice with them !!! They are the ones you support

[ggold]

Are these 40 appointed Senators from PTP by any chance?

Of course not.

Be careful not to blame the wrong guys

The "40 senators group" is a group of senators that are critics of the current government... since long already. It is known by everybody, so you should know that too.

Be nice with them !!! They are the ones you support

Ah OK so it is a delaying tactic from the Dems to keep the pressure on the government? Excuse my ignorance, But there was no indication of which side they supported in the OP or I missed it.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens in the senate?

If the PTP senators vote to withdraw the bill, Does that mean the Democrat senators will vote for it? Now that really would be interesting!

[gerry1011]

Are these 40 appointed Senators from PTP by any chance?

Of course not.

Be careful not to blame the wrong guys

The "40 senators group" is a group of senators that are critics of the current government... since long already. It is known by everybody, so you should know that too.

Be nice with them !!! They are the ones you support

Ah OK so it is a delaying tactic from the Dems to keep the pressure on the government? Excuse my ignorance, But there was no indication of which side they supported in the OP or I missed it.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens in the senate?

If the PTP senators vote to withdraw the bill, Does that mean the Democrat senators will vote for it? Now that really would be interesting!

You are right.

The Dems will always want and do the opposite of what the PT wants or does. I would not be surprised that in the future they criticize the PT for not coming with an amnesty bill. Oppose is the Dems raison d'être

Edited November 8, 2013 by gerry1011

[waza]

Yes like the powerful people they are they are going to delay the deliberation of the bill from today ..........................................................until Monday.

Like you say, Good on them

Monday being the original day proposed for the deliberation of said bill.. Why are they trying SOOOO hard to do it earlier? Can you answer that one while drinking?

Dear Fab4 et al, the reason the Thaksin proxy government wants this issue out the way before Monday is because they want the streets clear of protestors before the...........

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague will decide on Nov. 11 whether Cambodia or Thailand should administer a 4.6-square kilometer (1.8-square mile) tract of land surrounding the 11th century Preah Vihear temple, following a hearing on the case in April....... “I, along with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, the Thai defense minister, have agreed that regardless of the outcome of the ICJ decision on Nov. 11, the two countries must comply with the verdict and work to maintain peace and stability along the border,” Hun Sen said." http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/verdict-11072013140926.html

Also they may want to railroad the 2 constitutional changes through the senate while they are there.

Heres some validation.........

“The government has bowed to the point that it is engaged in conflicts with Red Shirt people. The opponents, however, would not give up and announced that the amnesty bill must be rejected on Nov 11 – the day that the Preah Vihear border dispute is decided by the World Court,” said Mr Charupong. “If the ICJ’s verdict is not in favour of Thailand, the protesters will use it as a condition to topple the government.” .........

An informed source said the Interior Ministry has issued a confidential order to all provincial governors, instructing them to produce banners which read “Be kind and forgive for Thailand to overcome conflicts” to be set up in public places. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/680278-jatuporn-claims-protesters-seek-to-topple-the-government/?p=7015363

The theory is the government wants all this unpleasantness got rid off by the time the publishing of the ICJ verdict due on the 11th November.

I don't think that the government or the senate for that matter expect that the deliberation of the amnesty bill will be over in one day. Furthermore I do not think that the government expect to clear the streets of protesters in two days.

So conspiracy theory - not really viable is it?

au contraire, dear Fab4, Nikom seems to have made an executive decision for the whole senate.....

"Nikom informed 69 senators in the assembly hall that the meeting would be postponed to Monday when the bill would be "withheld"."

Now that shouldn't take long, it will leave plenty of time to pass the constitutional changes. On the conspiracy theory statement, seems both myself and Pheu Thai Party leader and Interior Minister Charupong Ruangsuwan agree that not only is it viable but it is the reason.

[pisico]

I wonder what these guys hope to win with this.. extending the protest.. showing their muscles ?

Very simple purpose: to intimidate the senators who may vote in favor of the law.

If either side claims to abide by the rule of law, why that protest? It is a protest a priori, before the fact.

If the Senate votes down the bill, it can only be raised again in 180 days.

Maybe reds and yellows alike do not understand the concept Rule of Law.

So far, in the years of living here, I have only observed they employ the Rule of the Mob.

[khaowong1]

Mind you, with the initial debat set for Monday some may have scheduled other activities for today or tomorrow. Some may still be studying the bill, talking with various protest groups, talking with anti-anti people to get a good feeling for what the Thai public feels and wants.

What's the hurry anyway? Protests look like a blot on the wonderful achievements of this government, PM Yingluck upset?

Oh dear. Are these idiots really going to prevent a quorom?

Does anyone anywhere in this country understand the concept of public service and sacrifice?

So, Yingluck saying that the Amnesty bill has been dropped doesn't really mean anything?

[fab4]

Monday being the original day proposed for the deliberation of said bill.. Why are they trying SOOOO hard to do it earlier? Can you answer that one while drinking?

Dear Fab4 et al, the reason the Thaksin proxy government wants this issue out the way before Monday is because they want the streets clear of protestors before the...........

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague will decide on Nov. 11 whether Cambodia or Thailand should administer a 4.6-square kilometer (1.8-square mile) tract of land surrounding the 11th century Preah Vihear temple, following a hearing on the case in April....... “I, along with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, the Thai defense minister, have agreed that regardless of the outcome of the ICJ decision on Nov. 11, the two countries must comply with the verdict and work to maintain peace and stability along the border,” Hun Sen said." http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/verdict-11072013140926.html

Also they may want to railroad the 2 constitutional changes through the senate while they are there.

Heres some validation.........

“The government has bowed to the point that it is engaged in conflicts with Red Shirt people. The opponents, however, would not give up and announced that the amnesty bill must be rejected on Nov 11 – the day that the Preah Vihear border dispute is decided by the World Court,” said Mr Charupong. “If the ICJ’s verdict is not in favour of Thailand, the protesters will use it as a condition to topple the government.” .........

An informed source said the Interior Ministry has issued a confidential order to all provincial governors, instructing them to produce banners which read “Be kind and forgive for Thailand to overcome conflicts” to be set up in public places. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/680278-jatuporn-claims-protesters-seek-to-topple-the-government/?p=7015363

The theory is the government wants all this unpleasantness got rid off by the time the publishing of the ICJ verdict due on the 11th November.

I don't think that the government or the senate for that matter expect that the deliberation of the amnesty bill will be over in one day. Furthermore I do not think that the government expect to clear the streets of protesters in two days.

So conspiracy theory - not really viable is it?

au contraire, dear Fab4, Nikom seems to have made an executive decision for the whole senate.....

"Nikom informed 69 senators in the assembly hall that the meeting would be postponed to Monday when the bill would be "withheld"."

Now that shouldn't take long, it will leave plenty of time to pass the constitutional changes. On the conspiracy theory statement, seems both myself and Pheu Thai Party leader and Interior Minister Charupong Ruangsuwan agree that not only is it viable but it is the reason.

And getting rid of the crowds in two days?....................................................You and Charaupong could be wrong, you know.