Thai govt threatens to seize assets of sponsors of anti-govt rallies

[tingtongteesood]

## And noooooooow, the end is near....## can't come soon enough, Taksin ok bai rew rew deeeeeeeeee !!

[Local Drunk]

Looking at things from the PTP standpoint you can see why they are doing this. The one big advantage that TRT/PPP/PTP (have I left any out?) have always had is their access to big money, especially at election time.

Given their current relegation form PTP badly need to retain this edge.

"The one big advantage that TRT/PPP/PTP (have I left any out?)"

A most befuddling list of acronyms that equal FOS...

[kingalfred]

Amazing or maybe not when this pathetic lying cheating government wants to find laws to punish people who protest against it ,but never made any effort by trying to extradite a convicted criminal former PM .hypocrisy to new levels.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bigbamboo]

Roughly 50% of the voters support PTP/the red shirts. They got 15.7 million votes last time.

The yellow and the elites represent around 5% of the population and they can count on a further 20% to support and vote for them.

A further 20% are uninterested in politics and don't vote and the remainder vote for the smaller parties.

That's my understanding and I can't pull the article where I just read this.

It's not rocket science. They have a parliamentary majority.

This excellent article linked below about the flawed politics of the Amnesty Bill is worth reading.

For Thaksin because of the politics he should be setting aside his own personel interests regarding his convictions and his assets removal at this time for the greater good.

Not least amnesty should not be for those who acted with brutality and have always got away with it in the past but for those the army rounded up and have had unjustly held in prison ever since.

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

With PT having such an overwhelming support in the country you'd think they'd have put a new constitution to a referendum as happened with the current one. From what you say given how unpopular the coup was and yet the people still voted in favour in 2007 just imagine what a cakewalk it would be now for PT to achieve an even more convincing victory.

So if your figures add up then why don't they?

[whybother]

Roughly 50% of the voters support PTP/the red shirts. They got 15.7 million votes last time.

The yellow and the elites represent around 5% of the population and they can count on a further 20% to support and vote for them.

A further 20% are uninterested in politics and don't vote and the remainder vote for the smaller parties.

That's my understanding and I can't pull the article where I just read this.

It's not rocket science. They have a parliamentary majority. 

This excellent article linked below about the flawed politics of the Amnesty Bill is worth reading.

For Thaksin because of the politics he should be setting aside his own personel interests regarding his convictions and his assets removal at this time for the greater good.

Not least amnesty should not be for those who acted with brutality and have always got away with it in the past but for those the army rounded up and have had unjustly held in prison ever since.

 

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational.  I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

 

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

Roughly 50% voted for PTP. That doesn't make them red shirt supporters.

Roughly 35% voted for the Democrats. Very few of those would be yellow shirts.

Another 15% voted for other parties.

Then there are a bunch of yellow shirts that didn't actually vote, and another bunch that aren't interested and don't vote.

If Thaksin had stepped away from politics any one of the numerous times he said he would, Thailand wouldn't be in the mess it is now.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Emptyset]

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

Very good article that. Thoughtful, true and wise. Hadn't seen it before - thanks for sharing.

[jdinasia]

Parrot --- did you read that opinion piece that you posted the quote from? It was awful! Devoid of logic, devoid of understanding of the law or the concept of rule of law .... just awful! Congrats for not having read that!

[MrSlatersParrot]

No chip on my shoulder but I have a problem with those who want to perpetuate this feudal state and those farang who would support them.

You are describing yourself there Parrot,

Thaksin's whole political philosophy and implementation of that philosophy is based upon feudalism, or perhaps, to be more accurate based upon the patronage client system. Offer up a tiny bit of rice to the serfs for their support .... that is all he did with his populist policies that actually made things worse in areas with the largest wealth distribution problems. Cronyism .... Nepotism .. Patron/client relationship with the electorate ... That is what you are decrying, but publicly supporting.

I like this:

My Bold highlights.

"The whistle blowing protesters have been telling each other and anyone who would listen that theirs is a protest by “good people,” “not brutes.” “We are RICH and educated,” they said, not tools of corrupt politicians (like the poor, uneducated, not-good, uncouth people on the other side). Some put their thoughts onto personal placards to make sure the world knows: “I am not hired because my salary is BIG,” “my family is RICH,” etc. As though being rich, privileged, educated and well-dressed with a monthly salary were requirements for justice and democracy.

Scratch the surface of this inflated self-image and find the contempt for the opposite of “us.” Parallel to the pathological obsession with Thaksin’s evils is the glaring omission of the evils of those on their side, and the loss—deaths and suffering—of the fellow women and men on the other side. Within their black and white, self-absorbed world, there is little room for empathy"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/115693/thailand-amnesty-bandwagon-full-of-hubris-hatred-and-hidden-agendas/

[thaicbr]

No chip on my shoulder but I have a problem with those who want to perpetuate this feudal state and those farang who would support them.

You are describing yourself there Parrot,

Thaksin's whole political philosophy and implementation of that philosophy is based upon feudalism, or perhaps, to be more accurate based upon the patronage client system. Offer up a tiny bit of rice to the serfs for their support .... that is all he did with his populist policies that actually made things worse in areas with the largest wealth distribution problems. Cronyism .... Nepotism .. Patron/client relationship with the electorate ... That is what you are decrying, but publicly supporting.

I like this:

My Bold highlights.

"The whistle blowing protesters have been telling each other and anyone who would listen that theirs is a protest by “good people,” “not brutes.” “We are RICH and educated,” they said, not tools of corrupt politicians (like the poor, uneducated, not-good, uncouth people on the other side). Some put their thoughts onto personal placards to make sure the world knows: “I am not hired because my salary is BIG,” “my family is RICH,” etc. As though being rich, privileged, educated and well-dressed with a monthly salary were requirements for justice and democracy.

Scratch the surface of this inflated self-image and find the contempt for the opposite of “us.” Parallel to the pathological obsession with Thaksin’s evils is the glaring omission of the evils of those on their side, and the loss—deaths and suffering—of the fellow women and men on the other side. Within their black and white, self-absorbed world, there is little room for empathy"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/115693/thailand-amnesty-bandwagon-full-of-hubris-hatred-and-hidden-agendas/

And YOU have heard them say this... yes?

[jdinasia]

Parrot .... what does your post have to do with my post?

edit --- and yet another opinion piece that is highlighted to change emphasis. (that opinion piece isn't awful but it is less harsh on one side than the other .. and makes statements without evidence to support said statements)

Edited November 16, 2013 by jdinasia

[MrSlatersParrot]

Roughly 50% of the voters support PTP/the red shirts. They got 15.7 million votes last time.

The yellow and the elites represent around 5% of the population and they can count on a further 20% to support and vote for them.

A further 20% are uninterested in politics and don't vote and the remainder vote for the smaller parties.

That's my understanding and I can't pull the article where I just read this.

It's not rocket science. They have a parliamentary majority.

This excellent article linked below about the flawed politics of the Amnesty Bill is worth reading.

For Thaksin because of the politics he should be setting aside his own personel interests regarding his convictions and his assets removal at this time for the greater good.

Not least amnesty should not be for those who acted with brutality and have always got away with it in the past but for those the army rounded up and have had unjustly held in prison ever since.

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

With PT having such an overwhelming support in the country you'd think they'd have put a new constitution to a referendum as happened with the current one. From what you say given how unpopular the coup was and yet the people still voted in favour in 2007 just imagine what a cakewalk it would be now for PT to achieve an even more convincing victory.

So if your figures add up then why don't they?

Well if you know anything about it and I've recently alluded to it the people were invited to vote for it but even if they didn't it would still be pushed through.

They were also informed that should they not vote for it there could not be any guarantees as to when there would be another election.

Meanwhile we have since learnt from Wikileaks that the state department demanded that and got assurances that elections would be held within 1 year.

[thaicbr]

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

Very good article that. Thoughtful, true and wise. Hadn't seen it before - thanks for sharing.

I agree some parts were good. BUT the rest either omitted vital facts as in there is NOTHING stopping Thaksin come back tomorrow or were written with a rose tinted view.

[Nowhereman60]

What next the government will come out with? martial law? curfew? tanks in the streets?

Sounds like May 2010 to me.

[thaicbr]

Roughly 50% of the voters support PTP/the red shirts. They got 15.7 million votes last time.

The yellow and the elites represent around 5% of the population and they can count on a further 20% to support and vote for them.

A further 20% are uninterested in politics and don't vote and the remainder vote for the smaller parties.

That's my understanding and I can't pull the article where I just read this.

It's not rocket science. They have a parliamentary majority.

This excellent article linked below about the flawed politics of the Amnesty Bill is worth reading.

For Thaksin because of the politics he should be setting aside his own personel interests regarding his convictions and his assets removal at this time for the greater good.

Not least amnesty should not be for those who acted with brutality and have always got away with it in the past but for those the army rounded up and have had unjustly held in prison ever since.

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

With PT having such an overwhelming support in the country you'd think they'd have put a new constitution to a referendum as happened with the current one. From what you say given how unpopular the coup was and yet the people still voted in favour in 2007 just imagine what a cakewalk it would be now for PT to achieve an even more convincing victory.

So if your figures add up then why don't they?

Well if you know anything about it and I've recently alluded to it the people were invited to vote for it but even if they didn't it would still be pushed through.

They were also informed that should they not vote for it there could not be any guarantees as to when there would be another election.

Meanwhile we have since learnt from Wikileaks that the state department demanded that and got assurances that elections would be held within 1 year.

I'm not sure but i think Big bamboo was talking about PTP's wanting to change the current constitution but refusing to do a referendum preferring to do it bit by bit in the bought and paid for Parliament.

http://youtu.be/izNHIDiBTT8

But i may be wrong

PS: The Army is in charge of the prisons now? The PTP have been keeping the RED's in prison as kind of hostages to enable this ridiculous amnesty proposal .

Edited November 16, 2013 by thaicbr

[Emptyset]

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

Very good article that. Thoughtful, true and wise. Hadn't seen it before - thanks for sharing.

I agree some parts were good. BUT the rest either omitted vital facts as in there is NOTHING stopping Thaksin come back tomorrow or were written with a rose tinted view.

I don't know. I think he's right to say, in the end, by trying to push through this bill with the contempt for public opinion that PT did, Thaksin handed the opposition victory and has only lengthened the time he'll need to spend abroad before society considers it acceptable for him to be allowed home without jail. In fact Nidhi now doubts that's possible at all, he says Thaksin may have to agree to at least a short period in jail. Whereas before this bill, I always thought if Thaksin stayed quiet for a couple of years, perhaps three or four, did his best to quietly engender an effective government and didn't try to slam through any controversial legislation, he'd eventually be allowed back just as the likes of Thanom* were eventually allowed to come back, albeit with heads bowed in apparent contrition. But due to his imperious nature, he chose the opposite path, knocked over the apple cart, and any slim chance of coming back a free man with the minimum of fuss... well, that's just completely off the table at this point, isn't it?

*People seem to be allowed to come back even if they've done great wrongs as long as they demonstrate they're not a threat to the status quo. Pridi was never allowed back because people feared, even in his old age, that he might prove inspirational to the student movement and the Thai left in general. So as I say above, what Thaksin should've done was shown contrition & deference to those who matter, adopted a 'let bygones be bygones' attitude (he tried to do this with the 'set zero' business obviously, but kept saying dumb things, e.g. his continual indication that he considered his money stolen from him and would try to recover it) and severed all ties with the red shirt movement. He tried a dual strategy of negotiation and threat and it patently hasn't come off.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Emptyset

[jpeg]

Both sides buy votes, and neither is giving ground.

Again! For the last time - the PAD/Dems were.not.paid !

And, it would be better if those crying 'overthrow the government' take a second glance at a previous post, together with Suthep's stated aim of overthrowing the TAKSIN REGIME. If you are of the opinion that Taksin is indeed the leader of PTP, then this government is illegal.

[MrSlatersParrot]

No chip on my shoulder but I have a problem with those who want to perpetuate this feudal state and those farang who would support them.

You are describing yourself there Parrot,

Thaksin's whole political philosophy and implementation of that philosophy is based upon feudalism, or perhaps, to be more accurate based upon the patronage client system. Offer up a tiny bit of rice to the serfs for their support .... that is all he did with his populist policies that actually made things worse in areas with the largest wealth distribution problems. Cronyism .... Nepotism .. Patron/client relationship with the electorate ... That is what you are decrying, but publicly supporting.

I like this:

My Bold highlights.

"The whistle blowing protesters have been telling each other and anyone who would listen that theirs is a protest by “good people,” “not brutes.” “We are RICH and educated,” they said, not tools of corrupt politicians (like the poor, uneducated, not-good, uncouth people on the other side). Some put their thoughts onto personal placards to make sure the world knows: “I am not hired because my salary is BIG,” “my family is RICH,” etc. As though being rich, privileged, educated and well-dressed with a monthly salary were requirements for justice and democracy.

Scratch the surface of this inflated self-image and find the contempt for the opposite of “us.” Parallel to the pathological obsession with Thaksin’s evils is the glaring omission of the evils of those on their side, and the loss—deaths and suffering—of the fellow women and men on the other side. Within their black and white, self-absorbed world, there is little room for empathy"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/115693/thailand-amnesty-bandwagon-full-of-hubris-hatred-and-hidden-agendas/

And YOU have heard them say this... yes?

Why don't you read the article?

I've seen the Hi-so's with their fleets of white vans and what about the 5 democrat MP's who masqueraded as ordinary thai citizens the other day to blow their whistles at the minister for education and filmed for Blue sky TV.

Does anyone remember the Photo of the Year competition that Abhisit presided over?

The winning photo was supposed to show an irate resident scolding a red shirt woman prostrate in front of him.

What wasn't made clear was that in fact he was a PAD guard freelancing as a photographer and in the photo his camera had been photo-shopped out and this is what really happened as he had just dragged this woman....

Photo of the Year UPDATE Asian Correspondent.avi

[gerry1011]

 Both sides buy votes, and neither is giving ground.  

 

Again! For the last time - the PAD/Dems were.not.paid !

 

And, it would be better if those crying 'overthrow the government' take a second glance at a previous post, together with Suthep's stated aim of overthrowing the TAKSIN REGIME. If you are of the opinion that Taksin is indeed the leader of PTP, then this government is illegal. 

It's not because you decide that they were not paid that they weren't paid.

It's just common practice on both sides. No problem with that.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bigbamboo]

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

Very good article that. Thoughtful, true and wise. Hadn't seen it before - thanks for sharing.

I agree some parts were good. BUT the rest either omitted vital facts as in there is NOTHING stopping Thaksin come back tomorrow or were written with a rose tinted view.

I don't know. I think he's right to say, in the end, by trying to push through this bill with the contempt for public opinion that PT did, Thaksin handed the opposition victory and has only lengthened the time he'll need to spend abroad before society considers it acceptable for him to be allowed home without jail. In fact Nidhi now doubts that's possible at all, he says Thaksin may have to agree to at least a short period in jail. Whereas before this bill, I always thought if Thaksin stayed quiet for a couple of years, perhaps three or four, did his best to quietly engender an effective government and didn't try to slam through any controversial legislation, he'd eventually be allowed back just as the likes of Thanom* were eventually allowed to come back, albeit with heads bowed in apparent contrition. But due to his imperious nature, he chose the opposite path, knocked over the apple cart, and any slim chance of coming back a free man with the minimum of fuss... well, that's just completely off the table at this point, isn't it?

*People seem to be allowed to come back even if they've done great wrongs as long as they demonstrate they're not a threat to the status quo. Pridi was never allowed back because people feared, even in his old age, that he might prove inspirational to the student movement and the Thai left in general. So as I say above, what Thaksin should've done was shown contrition & deference to those who matter, adopted a 'let bygones be bygones' attitude (he tried to do this with the 'set zero' business obviously, but kept saying dumb things, e.g. his continual indication that he considered his money stolen from him and would try to recover it) and severed all ties with the red shirt movement. He tried a dual strategy of negotiation and threat and it patently hasn't come off.

What you are saying actually touches on the aspect of Thaksin that is so problematic for Thailand. Your thinking, along with that of most of his supporters, is based on the notion that somehow everything their leader does is for his country and his people. It would be a rare Thai politician who could claim this and Thaksin isn't one of them.

[khunken]

Roughly 50% of the voters support PTP/the red shirts. They got 15.7 million votes last time.

The yellow and the elites represent around 5% of the population and they can count on a further 20% to support and vote for them.

A further 20% are uninterested in politics and don't vote and the remainder vote for the smaller parties.

That's my understanding and I can't pull the article where I just read this.

It's not rocket science. They have a parliamentary majority.

This excellent article linked below about the flawed politics of the Amnesty Bill is worth reading.

For Thaksin because of the politics he should be setting aside his own personel interests regarding his convictions and his assets removal at this time for the greater good.

Not least amnesty should not be for those who acted with brutality and have always got away with it in the past but for those the army rounded up and have had unjustly held in prison ever since.

The Total Cost of Amnesty

Fri, 15/11/2013 - 13:11 | by prachatai

Nidhi Eoseewong

" Khun Abhisit’s and Khun Suthep’s political path is relentlessly confrontational. I believe that it no longer matches the changing mood of the people in the city."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3745

With PT having such an overwhelming support in the country you'd think they'd have put a new constitution to a referendum as happened with the current one. From what you say given how unpopular the coup was and yet the people still voted in favour in 2007 just imagine what a cakewalk it would be now for PT to achieve an even more convincing victory.

So if your figures add up then why don't they?

Well if you know anything about it and I've recently alluded to it the people were invited to vote for it but even if they didn't it would still be pushed through.

They were also informed that should they not vote for it there could not be any guarantees as to when there would be another election.

Meanwhile we have since learnt from Wikileaks that the state department demanded that and got assurances that elections would be held within 1 year.

We have learned nothing of the sort. You still perpetuate the lie that the constitution would 'be pushed through' when the appointed government made it clear that an earlier constitution would be enacted if the one voted on was rejected.

The point is that it was accepted and for those who continually trot out elections as a be all and end all of democracy it is hypocritical to ignore that fact.

You also continually distort the voting figures from the last election and fail to understand that neither the red shirts or yellow shirts had a political party.

The article from K Nidhi is not the worst I've seen from the red shirt side but is nevertheless biased all through. As for Abhisit/Suthep's political path being relentlessly confrontational - total rubbish. It has only become confrontational recently and that is because they have been (relentlessly?) targeted on Thaksin's (confrontational) instructions to get them to agree on amnesty for the criminal. He thought they would fold like Tarit or Sonthi but they are not cowards like himself.

Not mentioned by Nidhi is the free pass under amnesty for around 2500 under investigation by the NACC (a body not yet instructed by the Shins) nor has he anything to say about the MIB.

This country will not move forward until the feudal dynasty is removed by whatever means necessary. Suthep won't achieve it now unfortunately and the country will stagger on until people realise that enough is enough.

[jdinasia]

You are describing yourself there Parrot,

Thaksin's whole political philosophy and implementation of that philosophy is based upon feudalism, or perhaps, to be more accurate based upon the patronage client system. Offer up a tiny bit of rice to the serfs for their support .... that is all he did with his populist policies that actually made things worse in areas with the largest wealth distribution problems. Cronyism .... Nepotism .. Patron/client relationship with the electorate ... That is what you are decrying, but publicly supporting.

I like this:

My Bold highlights.

"The whistle blowing protesters have been telling each other and anyone who would listen that theirs is a protest by “good people,” “not brutes.” “We are RICH and educated,” they said, not tools of corrupt politicians (like the poor, uneducated, not-good, uncouth people on the other side). Some put their thoughts onto personal placards to make sure the world knows: “I am not hired because my salary is BIG,” “my family is RICH,” etc. As though being rich, privileged, educated and well-dressed with a monthly salary were requirements for justice and democracy.

Scratch the surface of this inflated self-image and find the contempt for the opposite of “us.” Parallel to the pathological obsession with Thaksin’s evils is the glaring omission of the evils of those on their side, and the loss—deaths and suffering—of the fellow women and men on the other side. Within their black and white, self-absorbed world, there is little room for empathy"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/115693/thailand-amnesty-bandwagon-full-of-hubris-hatred-and-hidden-agendas/

And YOU have heard them say this... yes?

Why don't you read the article?

I've seen the Hi-so's with their fleets of white vans and what about the 5 democrat MP's who masqueraded as ordinary thai citizens the other day to blow their whistles at the minister for education and filmed for Blue sky TV.

Does anyone remember the Photo of the Year competition that Abhisit presided over?

The winning photo was supposed to show an irate resident scolding a red shirt woman prostrate in front of him.

What wasn't made clear was that in fact he was a PAD guard freelancing as a photographer and in the photo his camera had been photo-shopped out and this is what really happened as he had just dragged this woman....

and again that article had nothing to do with my post Parrot. (good name for you!)

Thaksin is a Hi-So .. so were those "fleets of white cans" his?

Were there Dem MP's at a flash mob whistle blowing? Probably. So what? "masquerading"? LOL

But really, you are using an opinion piece that SHREDS the PTP/Government, and the UDD MP's, and everyone else but only looking at a tiny part (about students) to make your case.... a case which has nothing to do with the gov't threat to seize funds from people supposedly bankrolling a completely legal protest. good on you mate!

[jpeg]

Definitely not supporting PTP, but the truth is that the Dems, and all others, are just as guilty in the "vote buying" department.

No. They're not! Sweet Jezuz ...

[dru2]

No chip on my shoulder but I have a problem with those who want to perpetuate this feudal state and those farang who would support them.

You are describing yourself there Parrot,

Thaksin's whole political philosophy and implementation of that philosophy is based upon feudalism, or perhaps, to be more accurate based upon the patronage client system. Offer up a tiny bit of rice to the serfs for their support .... that is all he did with his populist policies that actually made things worse in areas with the largest wealth distribution problems. Cronyism .... Nepotism .. Patron/client relationship with the electorate ... That is what you are decrying, but publicly supporting.

I like this:

My Bold highlights.

"The whistle blowing protesters have been telling each other and anyone who would listen that theirs is a protest by “good people,” “not brutes.” “We are RICH and educated,” they said, not tools of corrupt politicians (like the poor, uneducated, not-good, uncouth people on the other side). Some put their thoughts onto personal placards to make sure the world knows: “I am not hired because my salary is BIG,” “my family is RICH,” etc. As though being rich, privileged, educated and well-dressed with a monthly salary were requirements for justice and democracy.

Scratch the surface of this inflated self-image and find the contempt for the opposite of “us.” Parallel to the pathological obsession with Thaksin’s evils is the glaring omission of the evils of those on their side, and the loss—deaths and suffering—of the fellow women and men on the other side. Within their black and white, self-absorbed world, there is little room for empathy"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/115693/thailand-amnesty-bandwagon-full-of-hubris-hatred-and-hidden-agendas/

And YOU have heard them say this... yes?

Of course not. He just doesn't like "Hi-So" knobs...

[jpeg]

Both sides buy votes, and neither is giving ground.

Again! For the last time - the PAD/Dems were.not.paid !

And, it would be better if those crying 'overthrow the government' take a second glance at a previous post, together with Suthep's stated aim of overthrowing the TAKSIN REGIME. If you are of the opinion that Taksin is indeed the leader of PTP, then this government is illegal.

It's not because you decide that they were not paid that they weren't paid.

It's just common practice on both sides. No problem with that.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I can state, from personal experience, categorically that no PAD supporter was paid. You?

[whybother]

I can state, from personal experience, categorically that no PAD supporter was paid. You?

Do you know every single one of them and you with every single one of them all the time?

[robblok]

 Both sides buy votes, and neither is giving ground.  

 

Again! For the last time - the PAD/Dems were.not.paid !

 

And, it would be better if those crying 'overthrow the government' take a second glance at a previous post, together with Suthep's stated aim of overthrowing the TAKSIN REGIME. If you are of the opinion that Taksin is indeed the leader of PTP, then this government is illegal. 

It's not because you decide that they were not paid that they weren't paid.

It's just common practice on both sides. No problem with that.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Proof it proof of red paying dumb rice farmers is everywhere, proof of reds burning BKK and causing mayhem is everywhere. You cant compare the 2 sides the reds are thugs who intimidate.

Yellow are the ones working hard and are educated their tax money spend on red thugs id get angry too.

I know more then a few who go to demonstrate all educated non violent people paying taxes that are spend to bribe the reds. Taksin wanting to come back was just the straw that broke the camels back.

They should separate isarn from Thailand and let them pay for their own stuf, they would be begging for help in no time. Its is so unfair having to pay taxes to finance stuff like the rice scam and then paying taxes to pay back Taksins legally impounded money.

Actually im ashamed of foreigners supporting those red thugs that burned down parts of BKK and fired grenades had weapons. Look at how peaceful the yellows are. Do compare them and be honest about the differences.

The ppl im talking about are by no means hi so just normal people making 30k and more.

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[robblok]

I can state, from personal experience, categorically that no PAD supporter was paid. You?

 

 

Do you know every single one of them and you with every single one of them all the time?

That would be hard but if it was so wide spread there would be video evidence like with the red thugs.

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[Showbags]

They are strugling to stay in power. It's inevitable that PTP will be gone, now or a bit later. The missunderstood fugitive will set up another party to play the same game. His credibility in the eyes of the voters in the north is fading as well. In due time Thailand will become a real democracy with much more decent politicians.

The times they are a-changing. Slow yet steady.

Young people grow up and with better attitudes, a more worldly view and better educated. Communications are better and knowledge sharing is infinite better than 10 years ago even.

It certainly takes time, but the young people with balls have the ability if they want it.

[Emptyset]

I agree some parts were good. BUT the rest either omitted vital facts as in there is NOTHING stopping Thaksin come back tomorrow or were written with a rose tinted view.

I don't know. I think he's right to say, in the end, by trying to push through this bill with the contempt for public opinion that PT did, Thaksin handed the opposition victory and has only lengthened the time he'll need to spend abroad before society considers it acceptable for him to be allowed home without jail. In fact Nidhi now doubts that's possible at all, he says Thaksin may have to agree to at least a short period in jail. Whereas before this bill, I always thought if Thaksin stayed quiet for a couple of years, perhaps three or four, did his best to quietly engender an effective government and didn't try to slam through any controversial legislation, he'd eventually be allowed back just as the likes of Thanom* were eventually allowed to come back, albeit with heads bowed in apparent contrition. But due to his imperious nature, he chose the opposite path, knocked over the apple cart, and any slim chance of coming back a free man with the minimum of fuss... well, that's just completely off the table at this point, isn't it?

*People seem to be allowed to come back even if they've done great wrongs as long as they demonstrate they're not a threat to the status quo. Pridi was never allowed back because people feared, even in his old age, that he might prove inspirational to the student movement and the Thai left in general. So as I say above, what Thaksin should've done was shown contrition & deference to those who matter, adopted a 'let bygones be bygones' attitude (he tried to do this with the 'set zero' business obviously, but kept saying dumb things, e.g. his continual indication that he considered his money stolen from him and would try to recover it) and severed all ties with the red shirt movement. He tried a dual strategy of negotiation and threat and it patently hasn't come off.

What you are saying actually touches on the aspect of Thaksin that is so problematic for Thailand. Your thinking, along with that of most of his supporters, is based on the notion that somehow everything their leader does is for his country and his people. It would be a rare Thai politician who could claim this and Thaksin isn't one of them.

Have to say I'm slightly surprised by this comment lol. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion from anything I've said, not just in this post, but ever on this message board. What I said above is what I think is a fairly neutral description of the way things have played out. I don't actually want to see Thaksin back, although realistically that will probably happen eventually, but it's further away now that it was pre-bill unless something unexpected happens.

More to your point though: I certainly don't see Thaksin as some sort of paragon of selfless leadership; and I also think it's right to be skeptical of even the greatest leaders (not that I put Thaksin in that category). But I don't think Thaksin acted only out of self-interest. That would be a simplistic reduction, certainly I believe his motivations are mixed and I'm sure he managed to convince himself that he was doing the best for his country when actually he was only doing what was right for him. Actually I'm not particularly interested in Thaksin's personality. I mean, the guy could be a psycho. So what? I'm more interested in what he's actually done than whether or not he's of genuinely good intentions, but if you asked me flat out if I think he was more driven by self-interest or by a drive to do what was best for Thailand, I'd definitely go with the former.

I also think you may be wrong about the view his supporters have of him. I don't know, there's something to what you say, but I also think a lot of Thais see this more pragmatically. They may see Thaksin as amoral but it doesn't matter because by tapping into that power, they've received tangible benefits. I mean, that's a pretty common reading of patronage in Thai history. They might know the patron is corrupt, arrogant, ruthless towards his enemies etc, but it doesn't matter as long as they're receiving benefits from him.

There was an excellent article in The Nation once written by Chang Noi which discussed these sort of archetypes in Thai society. CN wrote that there have been broadly speaking, three common 'types' of PM in Thai History, the 'nak leng' type, the 'monk' type & a new style Chinese 'type'. He writes of the nak leng type: 'The core principle of nakleng leadership is the gang ethic of loyalty and honour. They expect absolute loyalty from their friends and subordinates. In return they must have a "big heart". They must be ready to do anything for a friend or follower. Loyalty and honour override principle. Friendship and connection matter more than justice or fairness.'

You can see elements of this in Thaksin's leadership, CN later wrote in another article: "Since coming to power in 2001, Thaksin has adopted a tough-guy (nak leng) style of leadership. He acts as if he's in sole charge. He makes decisions quickly. He bullies opponents. He deliberately abuses critics in foul language. He disdains rules, institutions, procedures. It's a leadership style that works well, because it's rooted in the culture. It's the style of the local boss who gives protection and gets things done. Thaksin didn't behave like this five years ago. He learnt this style because people understand it, and it helped to make him popular."

So I'm not so convinced that Thaksin's followers see him as such a good guy in a moral sense. I think it involves more pragmatic calculation of costs & benefits than that, plus old school Thai notions of loyalty to patrons.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Emptyset

[wprime]

Take away all their assets so they can't fund another protest in 180 days when the amnesty bill gets resurrected.

And those with anything left will see what happened to their predecessors and wisely stay off the streets.

Smart plan. Completely oppressive and more than a little bit evil, but smart.

Not so smart, they haven't learned anything from every other toppled tyrant in history. The more you take away from the people, the more resolve they have to fight.