Indonesian Leader Deplores Statement by Aussie PM

[coma]

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

Run over ? Australia by its sheer land mass alone makes it almost impossible to run over. Any country trying to do so would be foolish to say the least.

[MK1]

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

Run over ? Australia by its sheer land mass alone makes it almost impossible to run over. Any country trying to do so would be foolish to say the least.

Moreover, Australia also has the ultimate secret-weapon, elusive, undetectable and in sizeable quantities, lining the whole northern coast of Australia …CROCODILES ! …which are known to be very easy to underestimate their capability.

[GrantSmith]

Moreover, Australia also has the ultimate secret-weapon, elusive, undetectable and in sizeable quantities, lining the whole northern coast of Australia …CROCODILES ! …which are known to be very easy to underestimate their capability.

Drop Bears, need I say more?

[Sing_Sling]

I was agreeing with you . . . you are far too quick to cry foul on others - please re-read. Calling on Indons to apologise before we do is dummyspitting nonsense

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

In a heartbeat . . . we wouldn't stand a chance

unless the Americans invoke ANZUS and come to help us.

yeah, okay, I'll go get my bag.....

I feel safer already

[Sing_Sling]

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

In a heartbeat . . . we wouldn't stand a chance

Why do you say that, would not the US step in to assist and repell any Indonesian attempt to attack the Australian mainland? BTW has Indonesian ever made a meaningful direct threat to attack Australia?

no, but it is a favourite bogey man of the Indonesia is a threat to Australia mob on the right (except the bits around Bali - we like them).

The US has forces on so many fronts and has created for itself far too many theatres of war to be effective on a large scale, especially in a scenario like Indonesia invading Oz.

As long as I can remember Indonesia has been the big threat to the north - well, we've only got the Kiwis anywhere else and they have been invading us for decades - but they have never done anything to even remotely suggest an attack on a wider scale . . . isn't the closest we got just a few years ago in Timor? Whoopeedoo

Like the US has an invented enemy (or more) at all times to keep their neo-cons happy and the population scared so do we have Indonesia

[Sing_Sling]

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

Run over ? Australia by its sheer land mass alone makes it almost impossible to run over. Any country trying to do so would be foolish to say the least.

Who says they'd be stupid enough to land troops where there are no cities?

Let's see . . . Darwin, Cairns, Brisbane . . . that'll do . . . even just the coastline stretching from Darwin to the Torres Straits . . .

Of course they wouldn't do it, though. I was an Lt in the navy for a short while and there were ever so many scenarios presented and none of them were feasible

Moreover, Australia also has the ultimate secret-weapon, elusive, undetectable and in sizeable quantities, lining the whole northern coast of Australia …CROCODILES ! …which are known to be very easy to underestimate their capability.

Drop Bears, need I say more?

Crocs would make good bush tucker for the Indons

Deadly, absolutely deadly beasts

[GrantSmith]

You can forget entering from those places. Wouldn't make it past the Timor Strait. Darwin well defended with RAAF Bases Tindaal and Darwin . Cairns - RAAF Base Townsville's only a short hop. Brisbane - would be the worst choice of the 3, RAAF Base Amberley - 'nuff said and then RAAF Base Williamtown is only a short hop for an F/18...

They'd have to hope for something opening up around the top of WA, but even then, an F/18 would make short work of the trip from Tindaal... Given the people smuggling issues, even the Indo Navy would have problems breaching that area...

[samran]

I guess Tone being all hairy chested goes down well with the folks in Bogania.

Not likely to help beef exporters though.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-26/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-food-imports/5117970

Edited November 26, 2013 by samran

[MK1]

I guess Tone being all hairy chested goes down well with the folks in Bogania.

Not likely to help beef exporters though.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-26/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-food-imports/5117970

The cost of a 'Big Mac' & a 'Double-Cheese' in Jakarta is now under threat !

Edited November 26, 2013 by MK1

[canman]

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

I am not sure about that:

Aus military budget 26.9 Bn USD Indo 8 Bn USD

Aus main battle tanks 59 Indo 0

Aus Destroyers 3 Indo 0

Aus Frigates 12 Indo 7

Aus Submarines 6 Indo 2

Aus combat aircraft 96 Indo 69

Given the amount of land Indo would have to occupy I doubt they stand a chance of taking Australia.

[MK1]

As seen in the 'Financial Review'-20th Nov 2013 by Cartoonist-David Rowe

[Jasun]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MK1]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indonesia think's, Australians perception of Indonesia are only the three 'B's; Boats, Beef & Bali. So maybe 'Bali' is next on the list of punishment measures. preventing Australians from visiting there, since this is the perception of the SBY spit the dummy team.

Edited November 26, 2013 by MK1

[simple1]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indonesia think's, Australians perception of Indonesia are only the three 'B's; Boats, Beef & Bali. So maybe 'Bali' is next on the list of punishment measures. preventing Australians from visiting there, since this is the perception of the SBY spit the dummy team.

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Edited November 26, 2013 by simple1

[David48]

About the Yanks coming to our rescue should the Natives to the North get any ideas.

I don't think we've a clip yet so ...

I'm much happier he's out of Politics now.

Tidy pension though ...

.

[MK1]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indonesia think's, Australians perception of Indonesia are only the three 'B's; Boats, Beef & Bali. So maybe 'Bali' is next on the list of punishment measures. preventing Australians from visiting there, since this is the perception of the SBY spit the dummy team.

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Indeed, we know its Beef based on todays news reports and we know Katter & Joyce amongst others will be kicking the drovers dog over this but presumably Bali could not ruled out too in the future given it's popularity over the years to Australians.

The three B's were discussed on ABC Q&A program as mentioned in The Australian, Sept 21st 2013;

'The term "Beef, Boats and Bali" was coined on the recent ABC Q&A program was filmed live in Jakarta. It was a phrase that did in a way summarise how many Australians see our relationship with Indonesia; a relationship built upon misperceptions, fear and a narrow community mindset trapped in a 20-year-old time Warp'.

Edited November 26, 2013 by MK1

[simple1]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indonesia think's, Australians perception of Indonesia are only the three 'B's; Boats, Beef & Bali. So maybe 'Bali' is next on the list of punishment measures. preventing Australians from visiting there, since this is the perception of the SBY spit the dummy team.

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Indeed, we know its Beef based on todays news reports and we know Katter & Joyce amongst others will be kicking the drovers dog over this but presumably Bali could not ruled out too in the future given it's popularity over the years to Australians.

The three B's were discussed on ABC Q&A program as mentioned in The Australian, Sept 21st 2013;

'The term "Beef, Boats and Bali" was coined on the recent ABC Q&A program was filmed live in Jakarta. It was a phrase that did in a way summarise how many Australians see our relationship with Indonesia; a relationship built upon misperceptions, fear and a narrow community mindset trapped in a 20-year-old time Warp'.

OK thought three B's was your expression...don't bother to watch Q&A here in Thailand

[samran]

I guess Tone being all hairy chested goes down well with the folks in Bogania.

Not likely to help beef exporters though.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-26/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-food-imports/5117970

The cost of a 'Big Mac' & a 'Double-Cheese' in Jakarta is now under threat !

no, the livihoods of farmers that the Libs and Nats were supposed to be better at protecting?

Guess that puts that furphy to rest....

[Publicus]

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

I am not sure about that:

Aus military budget 26.9 Bn USD Indo 8 Bn USD

Aus main battle tanks 59 Indo 0

Aus Destroyers 3 Indo 0

Aus Frigates 12 Indo 7

Aus Submarines 6 Indo 2

Aus combat aircraft 96 Indo 69

Given the amount of land Indo would have to occupy I doubt they stand a chance of taking Australia.

The United States would never accept losing Australia as an ally of long standing and of absolute trust, in this part of the world especially.

The US now has the capability to blockade the CCP-PRC so Washington could implement a naval blockade against Indonesia. Blockading Indonesia would be less and more challenging than blockading the CCP-PRC, but it would be effective.

Why are we getting what seems to me so far afield? I mean, if Washington has to have a real concern of a serious Indonesian military intrusion into Australia, then things down under are broadly and radically worse than I had ever imagined.

[David48]

INDONESIA has accepted Tony Abbott's explanation of the 2009 spying scandal but says the bilateral relationship will not fully resume until a new "protocol and code of ethical conduct" is agreed and implemented between the two countries.

Here

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono extended the olive branch to Australia last night after a special cabinet meeting, signalling the end of the worst diplomatic crisis between Australia and Indonesia since 1999.

However, Dr Yudhoyono made clear that the relationship would not be fully resumed - including military and police cooperation on people smuggling - until the code of conduct he and the Prime Minister had signed was "fully implemented".

The Australian

.

[David48]

I wonder how long the relationship between the two countries remained stained by these events.

Eggs and rotten tomatoes stain the Australian Coat of Arms during a protest outside the Australian Embassy in

Jakarta, Indonesia, Friday, Nov. 22, 2013. (AAP)

I feel that the inter-government relationship will quickly return to normal (depending on the attitude of the next government

elected in Indonesia), but I fear that it will be a while before we are thought of fondly within the hearts and minds of the Indonesia's people.

Maybe a stronger awareness amongst the Indonesians of the quantum of Foreign aid and support that Australia gives might start that process.

.

[chooka]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indonesia think's, Australians perception of Indonesia are only the three 'B's; Boats, Beef & Bali. So maybe 'Bali' is next on the list of punishment measures. preventing Australians from visiting there, since this is the perception of the SBY spit the dummy team.

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Why does Australia need Indonesia? I am sure Australia can survive very well without the financial support and welfare of Indonesia.

[David48]

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Why does Australia need Indonesia? I am sure Australia can survive very well without the financial support and welfare of Indonesia.

Mate, I believe that, while Indonesia doesn't figure in the top 10 Trading Partners, it's an Economic Relationship which we can develop if we are smart about it.

For too long we have been a Farm and a Mine to the world.

While that has stood us in excellent stead in the past, it's the Future we should look to.

Undoubtedly, Indonesia, given it's population, proximity to Australia and GDP Growth, the number of services we could offer them, particularly on an Education Front are extensive.

I'm not, for a second, suggest that we all sit round the campfire, hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah, but, where there are obvious hurdles, Indonesia could become and excellent trading partner for Australia.

.

[simple1]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indonesia think's, Australians perception of Indonesia are only the three 'B's; Boats, Beef & Bali. So maybe 'Bali' is next on the list of punishment measures. preventing Australians from visiting there, since this is the perception of the SBY spit the dummy team.

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Why does Australia need Indonesia? I am sure Australia can survive very well without the financial support and welfare of Indonesia.

Australia "can go it alone", but at what cost? It's certainly the view of the Australian government that it needs the co-operation of Indonesia on a number of matters such as 'boat people', collaboration on counter terrorism and export trade e.g. the beef industry.

For those who keep rabbiting on about Australian aid it represents 0.01% of the current Indonesian GDP, also not forgetting that most of the money spent actually contributes to employment & industry within Australia. Indonesia does not need Australian aid, but as previously referenced DFAT considers the claimed objectives to be in Australia's strategic interest.

[MK1]

Tony Abbott refuses to commit to spy code of ethics, flags security round table

November 27, 2013 - 12:32PM

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has declined to immediately commit to the spying code of ethics demanded by Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, but suggested a ''security round table'' be established so both nations could be more open with each other and build greater mutual trust.

Addressing reporters in Melbourne on Wednesday, Mr Abbott said he would take time to reflect on the statement made by the Indonesian President on Tuesday night, before ''trusted envoys'' would meet to work through the issues.

The Prime Minister said he wanted to strengthen co-operation on combating bilateral issues such as counter-terrorism and people smuggling, but would not comment on the operational details of intelligence matters.

Mr Abbott said he wanted to bring ''something positive'' out of the recent tensions between the two countries, which followed revelations Australia had tapped the mobile phones of Dr Yudhoyono, his wife and senior ministers in 2009.

''Obviously, that relationship does depend on a great deal of intelligence sharing,'' he said. ''I want to deepen and extend that in the weeks and months ahead.''

See moe details to this story at The Age; http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-refuses-to-commit-to-spy-code-of-ethics-flags-security-round-table-20131127-2y8u4.html

[samran]

I guess Thailand wouldn't mind less Australians going to Bali.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indonesia think's, Australians perception of Indonesia are only the three 'B's; Boats, Beef & Bali. So maybe 'Bali' is next on the list of punishment measures. preventing Australians from visiting there, since this is the perception of the SBY spit the dummy team.

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Why does Australia need Indonesia? I am sure Australia can survive very well without the financial support and welfare of Indonesia.

well who else is going to stop your beloved boats. The farmers might have a thing or two to say as well about closing off an important beef market...

[GrantSmith]

Oh, come on samran, we all know that if one door closes another one is opened somewhere...

You're such a cynical bar steward

[chooka]

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Why does Australia need Indonesia? I am sure Australia can survive very well without the financial support and welfare of Indonesia.

Mate, I believe that, while Indonesia doesn't figure in the top 10 Trading Partners, it's an Economic Relationship which we can develop if we are smart about it.

For too long we have been a Farm and a Mine to the world.

While that has stood us in excellent stead in the past, it's the Future we should look to.

Undoubtedly, Indonesia, given it's population, proximity to Australia and GDP Growth, the number of services we could offer them, particularly on an Education Front are extensive.

I'm not, for a second, suggest that we all sit round the campfire, hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah, but, where there are obvious hurdles, Indonesia could become and excellent trading partner for Australia.

.

The Australian taxpayer is already building muslim schools for them to attend free whilst the very same taxpayer is paying for his kids to go to school in Australia. Free education in Indonesia thanks to aussies whilst aussies struggle to educate their own kids.

Yep lets not sit around the campfire and sing Kum Ba Ya. let the most powerful nation in the Asia/Pacific region start looking after it's own citizens.

[simple1]

Nope, it's beef, they are now applying additional pressure by considering cutting back on importing Australian beef stock. Wonder how many screams/pressure from the Australian beef industry this will create. Maybe switch to India or Brazil. Off topic but not many people know Brazil has a reasonable presence in the Australian meat processing industry.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20028991/indonesia-considering-cutting-australian-beef-imports-in-wake-of-spying-scandal/

As I indicated earlier, Australia needs Indonesia, a dam_n sight more than the reverse

Why does Australia need Indonesia? I am sure Australia can survive very well without the financial support and welfare of Indonesia.

Mate, I believe that, while Indonesia doesn't figure in the top 10 Trading Partners, it's an Economic Relationship which we can develop if we are smart about it.

For too long we have been a Farm and a Mine to the world.

While that has stood us in excellent stead in the past, it's the Future we should look to.

Undoubtedly, Indonesia, given it's population, proximity to Australia and GDP Growth, the number of services we could offer them, particularly on an Education Front are extensive.

I'm not, for a second, suggest that we all sit round the campfire, hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah, but, where there are obvious hurdles, Indonesia could become and excellent trading partner for Australia.

.

The Australian taxpayer is already building muslim schools for them to attend free whilst the very same taxpayer is paying for his kids to go to school in Australia. Free education in Indonesia thanks to aussies whilst aussies struggle to educate their own kids.

Yep lets not sit around the campfire and sing Kum Ba Ya. let the most powerful nation in the Asia/Pacific region start looking after it's own citizens.

Scott, hope you will permit a reply as in the body of my response is the relevance to the topic i.e. Australian strategic security interests.

Indonesia is not the most powerful nation in the Asia Pacific region.

Off topic, but you're right about the Australian government schools, the quality of education, from my observation is quite poor.

In reference to the schools program, Australia is contributing half the budget, EU & Asia Development Bank the other half. The program is to build 2000 new secondary schools (currently 300k+ in Indonesia) and upgrade the curriculum of another 1500 Islamic schools to adopt Indonesia’s national curriculum. The Islamic schools; students will receive a more traditional education in the sciences, history and humanities and not focus so heavily on studying the Koran. Again the monies are being invested for the longer term strategic interest of Australia. Whether the monies are mostly siphoned off by corruption or the objectives are not achieved, is the question mark. AUSAID has claimed a previous project was a success. A lot more detail at the URLs below, including critic of the project when it was originally announced.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/thats-no-way-to-aid-indonesia/story-e6frg6zo-1225984624088

http://www.theage.com.au/national/500m-school-deal-for-jakarta-20101102-17ce6.html

Whilst not directly linked, there are roughly 16,000 Indonesians studying at Australian educational institutions. Over time I would guess the income generated more than offsets the Australian education investment in Indonesia

Edited November 27, 2013 by simple1

[samran]

Sure, let them build their own schools. They'll be funded by the islamic version of God botherers and teach intolerance.

Just what we need over our northern borders, ey Chooka?