Bangkok: Anti-government protesters declare victory

[SheungWan]

This ongoing dispute has little to do with politics this is very much a class struggle. It sticks in the craw of the so called Thai 'middle class' and the other 'privileged' classes in Thailand that the government has been formed following a democratic process that saw, yet again, the working class return the party of their choice

How can this be allowed to happen cry the minority? What right have our 'servants' to form a government. They should be cleaning our houses, washing our clothes, producing and preparing our food, driving our taxis and doing all the other menial jobs that an elite depend upon

What do these poorly educated people understand of World affairs?

i have spent a lot of time in the company of Bangkokian university students often in the company of my Isaan wife. Despite her being a well educated woman the students do not even acknowledge her presence much less bring her into the conversation and ask for her views

Thailand remains an 'upstairs and 'downstairs' society with the same social pyramid that infected Victorian society

It would be a disaster if the current government resigns. What message will that send out to the electorate? If you are unhappy with the democratically government cause a riot and all your demands will be met

Its always amusing to read someone playing the class struggle card complete with Thaksin as Che Guevara and the North Eastern landowners presumably as the Party Central Committee.

[moradave]

The question is, what will happen next ?

Will the protesters go home, and everything in the current government will continue as if nothing ever happened, including the lying-cheating and looting the state coffers ?

Or will there be a house dissolution and new elections?

My guess is a house dissolution with no elections. Rule will by Suthep's appointed 25 person People's Counsel (all male) with Suthep as Chief Counsellor.

[Horton Jones]

Two things are for sure about these attempts to overthrow the government: 1) I was here three years ago when the red shirts were protesting... these current protesters win the award for less peaceful, more violent, less patient, and more (inappropriately) ambitious. And 2) The leaders appear to be much better at propaganda with today's declared "victory." And the government itself should win another award for propaganda, announcing they are assuring other countries of their patience and restraint! I would hope that "other countries" are calling for order and control, not patience. It will be a sham, er, I mean a shame, if the government changes now. It will indeed show, like many western posts on this forum are saying, that Thai's are unwilling/unable to back true Democracy. Oh, by the way, Happy Birthday to all those born this month of December.

[blumenkraft]

This ongoing dispute has little to do with politics this is very much a class struggle. It sticks in the craw of the so called Thai 'middle class' and the other 'privileged' classes in Thailand that the government has been formed following a democratic process that saw, yet again, the working class return the party of their choice

How can this be allowed to happen cry the minority? What right have our 'servants' to form a government. They should be cleaning our houses, washing our clothes, producing and preparing our food, driving our taxis and doing all the other menial jobs that an elite depend upon

What do these poorly educated people understand of World affairs?

i have spent a lot of time in the company of Bangkokian university students often in the company of my Isaan wife. Despite her being a well educated woman the students do not even acknowledge her presence much less bring her into the conversation and ask for her views

Thailand remains an 'upstairs and 'downstairs' society with the same social pyramid that infected Victorian society

It would be a disaster if the current government resigns. What message will that send out to the electorate? If you are unhappy with the democratically government cause a riot and all your demands will be met

Its always amusing to read someone playing the class struggle card complete with Thaksin as Che Guevara and the North Eastern landowners presumably as the Party Central Committee.

Someone takes the time to relay a real life experience of prejudice and you reply smugly saying how amused you are by it all. Well done.

[attento]

Someone in the Govt has finally come to their senses.

If the Thaksin loving chief of police had realized that several days back that the people (public) were trying to get into public buildings then it would have saved lives, injuries and a lot of trouble.

If the gates to all the public buildings had been open, as they should have, then the protesters would have been free to wander around.

However some idiot decided they had to defend public buildings from the public who had been protesting peacefully up to the point where they were denied entry to the grounds of these buildings.

Had the gates been open there could have been no win or lose for anyone.

There are not many countries which would give free access to government buildings to a mob ?

It depends on your interpretation, but are all Government buildings also Public buildings?

Certainly not in the sense of having unfettered public access.

The decision to allow access in this case has taken some heat out of the protest, and could yet prove to be decisive in encouraging the "protestors" to go home.

[Thaddeus]

This ongoing dispute has little to do with politics this is very much a class struggle. It sticks in the craw of the so called Thai 'middle class' and the other 'privileged' classes in Thailand that the government has been formed following a democratic process that saw, yet again, the working class return the party of their choice

How can this be allowed to happen cry the minority? What right have our 'servants' to form a government. They should be cleaning our houses, washing our clothes, producing and preparing our food, driving our taxis and doing all the other menial jobs that an elite depend upon

What do these poorly educated people understand of World affairs?

i have spent a lot of time in the company of Bangkokian university students often in the company of my Isaan wife. Despite her being a well educated woman the students do not even acknowledge her presence much less bring her into the conversation and ask for her views

Thailand remains an 'upstairs and 'downstairs' society with the same social pyramid that infected Victorian society

It would be a disaster if the current government resigns. What message will that send out to the electorate? If you are unhappy with the democratically government cause a riot and all your demands will be met

what an insightful and meaningful post!!! but the 'amart' and the TV forum 'experts' just "dont get it"

elitism has to perish... eventually

Conversely, I'd just love to know when was the last time Jatuporn used a mop.

Or Weng.....

Or Thida...

Or........

Be assured, we get it, all of it.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Thaddeus

[shaurene]

weak, weak, weak sums up Thailand really

So you obviously wanted the authority's to crack down on them, shoot them etc. Not this time Hitler!!!!

[Bkkbound]

She has left Bangkok, the Gov are on an extended shut down, how does she get back into Bangkok, never mind Gov Hse.?

[Thormaturge]

There's a holiday coming up and most government employees would be away for a long weekend. Nobody really cares if the protesters occupy the government complex for a few days and just maybe they may realise nothing has been achieved if everyone ignores them.

[kimamey]

oh to be in dubai to see his face now...priceless.......i so hope its the end of yingluck she was way out of her depth...but brother didnt care about her one bit..vile human...him,him,him,,,

I think you will be disapointed if you think this is the end of Thaksin and as Yingluck was voted into office by the Thai people it should not be the end for her, no matter how your wife feels.

I think the face in Dubai would be more smirk than priceless!!

Yingluck will be in control for a lot longer than Suthep is in control of his mob.

Yes, I think Yingluck comes out of this looking much stronger. It seems obvious the army is backing her and the ridiculous antics of the anti-democracy protestors have alienated even those who hate Thaksin!

My wife is a Democrat supporter but she thinks Suthep has gone too far and I do as well. He's very unlikely to get what he wants but hopefully the government will learn to be more careful in future.

They've got a majority in parliament so all they need to do is govern. Their problem has been that they keep saying they're not doing things for Thaksin and he doesn't have any control whilst all the evidence points to him having just that and they keep trying to get him an amnesty. The protests seem to have started when they tried to push through the amnesty for all thereby including Thaksin and got more resistance than they probably thought because it included Abhisit and Suthep. That seems to have been too high a price for their supporters and the opposition saw a weakness and tried to exploit it.

Hopefully some good will come after the sad deaths.

[Mackie]

Two things are for sure about these attempts to overthrow the government: 1) I was here three years ago when the red shirts were protesting... these current protesters win the award for less peaceful, more violent, less patient, and more (inappropriately) ambitious. And 2) The leaders appear to be much better at propaganda with today's declared "victory." And the government itself should win another award for propaganda, announcing they are assuring other countries of their patience and restraint! I would hope that "other countries" are calling for order and control, not patience. It will be a sham, er, I mean a shame, if the government changes now. It will indeed show, like many western posts on this forum are saying, that Thai's are unwilling/unable to back true Democracy. Oh, by the way, Happy Birthday to all those born this month of December.

Funnily enough I was there too and I can safely say that you are being absolutely dishonest. Where you on another planet? Red mobsters had military wing with them from the day one. Fully armed. Throwing hand grenades around the city, bullying and intimidating innocent people in Bangkok, burning public property, causing a couple of billions USD dollars damage to their own country in lost revenues, killing soldiers etc...etc...Get a grip mate.

[jaidam]

She has left Bangkok, the Gov are on an extended shut down, how does she get back into Bangkok, never mind Gov Hse.?

Helicopter? (in the day time of course!)

[Tokay]

By declaring victory to they all get to save face or something? They have not won anything.

[Emptyset]

RT@veen_NT : Suthep: My only ultimate goal is to make Thailand free of capitalism dictatorship.

He clearly lost his marbles.... hope the pro ones here does not have any company here....

I do not think I have to worry about my business here since I will not be a PM. You may have to worry though

Suthep seems to believe the only 'capitalists' in Thailand are the Shinawatra family. He and the Democrats are backed by some of Thailand's wealthiest people & biggest businesses, I rather suspect he isn't proposing to eliminate them. The 'capitalist dictatorship' thing is also something Sondhi used to bang on about, as if he himself isn't a capitalist.

And the Shinawatras/PTP/Red Shirts are backed by CP, headed by THE wealthiest person of THE wealthiest family in Thailand, as well as many other big multinationals. Thais know well who are RS companies and who aren't. Why else are the farmers forced to buy CP fertilizer in order to get any money from the rice scheme?

The constant references to the "elites" backing the anti-government groups is just RS propaganda, as the Reds have just as much if not more "elitist" backing. This is just another version of the Koch Brothers' backed Tea Party pseudo-populist "movement" intended to enrich the wealthy criminal corporatists and their cronies.

Given the wealth and influence of CP it's not surprising both parties try to please them. I don't know why you think they're major backers of PT now though. They used to be major funders of TRT but now I think they might fund both parties, but more so the Democrats since the coup, given Dhanin's friendship with Prem. The Democrats appointed former TRT minister Virachai Virameteekul as Minister for the Office of the PM during the last Democrat govt because of his proximity to Dhanin, as his former son in law*. Also Abhisit's father is on the board of True, 30% of which is owned by CP.

What other major multinationals do you think are backing PT? Democrats are funded by Bangkok Bank & KBank families, ThaiBev (Chang), Boonrawd (Singha), Red Bull, the Srivikorn Group ... I could keep going on. The majority of the major business families basically. Even the demonstrations they're running now are coming in at a reported 5 million baht a day, where do you think the money is coming from?

So 'astroturfed' and 'wealthy criminal corporatists' eh? You don't happen to be a fan of conspiracy theorist Tony Cartalucci do you? Both parties represent capitalist interests and aren't any real threat to the status quo in that respect. The difference is PT were able to present themselves as giving back to the grassroots and energize that base with various policies and entitlements. I'm not claiming these guys are egalitarians or anything like that. Most of them aren't particularly ideological one way or the other. But they have in some respects changed things for the better. However, I'd rather people voted for a more genuinely reformist and idealistic party and that's why I hope the Commoner's Party are for real even if they don't get many votes.

The red shirts are no more 'astroturfed' than the current mob are. Sentiments and beliefs are genuine on both sides. Also, I'm probably further to the left of most (US) Democrats and I don't really believe that The Tea Party are just a purely artificial movement with no grassroots base. Yes, it was definitely initially funded by very wealthy people, and the Koch's play a very dubious role in US politics, but these things take on a life of their own eventually and a grassroots develops. The movement may have been the brainchild of some PR guy employed by billionaires, but it obviously tapped into the genuine beliefs and populist (why pseudo-populist?) resentments of rural white America.

But that's another story...

*Though he was also rumoured to have paid 80 million baht for the position.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Emptyset

[In Town]

Well, I'm a Tea Party sympathiser, am not rural, have never been bought by a billionaire, am not working for a corporation, I'm not even fighting against big government (well, maybe I am, but not as part of TP). My only objective, and the only thing that unites the TP, is that government live within its means.

[binjalin]

By declaring victory to they all get to save face or something? They have not won anything.

that's NOT true!!! Secretary General Suthep has already made it clear they won a Great Victory!!!

they won a flower giving presentation and a tour of Police HQ

TIT please ignore the little detail of the government still in power, that 'Victory Sunday' has been and gone - minor details, minor details

time for hugs with Police Officers and self-congratulations all round!

Can we expect a 'Victory Tour' around the provinces? maybe on an open-top bus?

Edited December 4, 2013 by binjalin

[Ricardo]

How joyous! A group of thugs manage to intimidate cowardly police into offering flowers like conquering heroes while jeopardizing the tiny, itsy bitsy, teeny weenie, microscopic bit of democracy Thailand currently has. I'm sure the 40 % of the population that voted for PT will be good sports about their democratic rights being violated and this loss celebrated by the spineless bureaucrats who have their picture taken with these villains who are joyously drunk with their new found power and vigilante stardom.

"the 40% of the population that voted for PT"

PTP got 48.4% of the votes cast, but many didn't bother to vote, and many more are ineligible to vote.

There had to be some sort of face-saving compromise, because of the important birthday this week, not sure how that compromise justifies such vitriol, it is just being pragmatic, much as former-PM Abhisit was when negotiating with the Red-Shirts in 2010.

[Emptyset]

Well, I'm a Tea Party sympathiser, am not rural, have never been bought by a billionaire, am not working for a corporation, I'm not even fighting against big government (well, maybe I am, but not as part of TP). My only objective, and the only thing that unites the TP, is that government live within its means.

I don't share your political views but I'm willing to believe that you actually believe what you say you believe. lol.

[mikemac]

Well, I'm a Tea Party sympathiser, am not rural, have never been bought by a billionaire, am not working for a corporation, I'm not even fighting against big government (well, maybe I am, but not as part of TP). My only objective, and the only thing that unites the TP, is that government live within its means.

"is that government live within its means....................................."

That is a good objective, but in the case of the Thaksin regime, never going to happen. They have ripped off that much money from the government coffers the trough is dry, and they are now working on a plan to borrow trillions of baht which will probably never be repaid, to refill the trough and line their already cozy nests.

The peasants can then "eat cake"....................

[biplanebluey]

So now it's perfectly ok to burn the place down!! Because they are tax payers???

What did they burn down?

I have a little laugh to myself when I read some of the inane comments that people send in.

Like------ "What did they burn down?

Why don't you read the above article on demonstrators being allowed to enter Police HQ------- It will explain it all[simply]

[mgjackson69]

How joyous!  A group of thugs manage to intimidate cowardly police into offering flowers like conquering heroes while jeopardizing the tiny, itsy bitsy, teeny weenie, microscopic bit of democracy Thailand currently has.  I'm sure the 40 % of the population that voted for PT will be good sports about their democratic rights being violated and this loss celebrated by the spineless bureaucrats who have their picture taken with these villains who are joyously drunk with their new found power and vigilante stardom.

 

"the 40% of the population that voted for PT"

 

PTP got 48.4% of the votes cast, but many didn't bother to vote, and many more are ineligible to vote.

 

There had to be some sort of face-saving compromise, because of the important birthday this week, not sure how that compromise justifies such vitriol, it is just being pragmatic, much as former-PM Abhisit was when negotiating with the Red-Shirts in 2010.

 

"Votes cast" is what counts...what percentage of the population elected someone is irrelevant

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SheungWan]

Prior to the current demonstrations a deal had been made to allow the implementation of the amnesty bill and return of Thaksin.

However, given Thaksin's greedy propensity to mess things up, the bill only managed to be passed with strong-arm tactics and a 4am late night shenanigans. Weakness and dishonesty on full display. Thus was the opposition to Thaksin given the strength to organise and further stimulated by the Senate rejection. Yes, Thaksin would desperately like the measure, now on the back burner, to be slipped in some future another late night sitting, but now the establishment has sufficient justification to pull back and not sign off on any further machinations. For the moment Thaksin returning is off the agenda. Now if that isn't a victory I don't know what is.

Edited December 4, 2013 by SheungWan

[Thaddeus]

Prior to the current demonstrations a deal had been made to allow the implementation of the amnesty bill and return of Thaksin.

Really...... you have knowledge of this?