Can I withhold rent money till problems are fixed?

[buddhaland]

I am living long-term in a bungalow near the Post Office in Ao Nang. But I had to move out temporarily till 2/22, to accommodate some renters who had booked that block of time long before I rented the bungalow for the year. I knew I would have to do this up front. No problem so far. But I moved into a brand new bungalow complex a bit outside of town, and that's when the problems started. First - the wi-fi there only works when it feels like it - which is not often. Next, my first day there, the shower heater started smoking and promptly stopped working. And the neighbors, all new tenants as I am, are reporting an assortment of other problems. I initially agreed to pay three months rent in return for reduced rent over that period. However I actually only paid two months on moving in, with the agreement to pay the third month plus a 5000 baht deposit today - when my Social Security payment posted from the States. I have been in the unit two weeks at this point. The owner is completely unresponsive, and though the rental agent tries to be helpful, her hands are tied. I told her today that I don't intend to pay the remainder of the money I committed to pay until the owner successfully addresses all of the various problems, especially the wi-fi issue - and if the problems aren't fixed I intend to stay without paying any additional money. (I forgot to mention that even though there are several cable television options, and ALL of the tenants are English speakers, the owner subscribed the units to the only cable provider that offers NO English language programming. In effect, there is no watchable television, though we are still paying for "free" cable.)

If I withhold the rent but remain in the unit, can the owner do anything about it? Am I letting myself in for legal problems? I move back to my old, very nice, place in only two and a half months - should I just pay the money and bite the bullet? Or - as I suspect - might withholding the money smoke the owner out and force him to act on our legitimate complaints?

Any real, considered, advice - based on personal experience of knowledge of Thai law - would be much appreciated! Many thanks!

[PattayaPhom]

New property will always have teeting problems. Talk to the owner again, they will soon become responsive when they want their money and should repair the shower. WiFi is a different issue, TOT, 3BB are probably to blame and it may be out of the owners ability to do anything

[buddhaland]

The wi-fi at my various friends' homes, at Starbucks, etc. is fine - it is apparently only my new bungalow and the others in this complex that are experiencing problems. I am not sure what the shorthand means. 66 years old and fairly computer literate, but don't get the shorthand - 3BB, TOT, etc. Define please? Thanx!

[Langsuan Man]

The wi-fi at my various friends' homes, at Starbucks, etc. is fine - it is apparently only my new bungalow and the others in this complex that are experiencing problems. I am not sure what the shorthand means. 66 years old and fairly computer literate, but don't get the shorthand - 3BB, TOT, etc. Define please? Thanx!

Do you understand the concept of an ISP ? ( Internet Service Provider) that is what the shorthand is all about, and if you don't know, there is always Google

[grumpyoldman]

Be real careful with that shower problem. Plenty of deaths in Thailand due to electrocution in the shower.

You're in the land of mai pen rai, so just grin and bear it, you're not too far off from being back at your good place then all this will be behind you.

Best not to make trouble, flying under the radar is always my advice.

[brucegoniners]

I wouldn't pay any more until the issues are fixed. You are paid up so far. But read your lease. If they boot you out now you'll be out your money with no place to live.

[Travelman868]

TAKE CARE. The first thing to remember is you are farang, you have no rights.

In most countries the landlord would be concerned about losing one, or a number of tenants. No so in Thailand,

where shooting yourself in the foot is a common thing.

If the landlord believes you owe money you will have problems so pay up or move.

[LivinginKata]

Best just to respectfully advise the owner that you won't be paying any further rent until your issues are resolved. Worst that can happen is that you get shown the door when further rent is due. Quite honestly you have no tenant rights here in Thailand, especially on a short term rent deal.

[Naroge]

What is stated in your contract about Wi-Fi, TV channels etc? If it's not specified in detail about number of English channels etc you have no legal right to complain.

Stop paying the rent is normally not legally correct, but paying into an escrow account could be one way. How it is in Thailand I don't know. But in case you are very keen to get back to your original house I would bite the bullet, pay the rent and complain in parallel, hoping for an improvement. Other option is to terminate the contract.

But the "smoking" water heater would worry me more. It could be a death trap. I also assume that your contract stipulates that warm water should be available. If so, this issue is a clear case for rent reduction.

[Ulic]

Don't pay the rent and let us know how it turns out. One thing for sure I would not pay the damage deposit.

[BudRight]

No smoking!

[Chao Lao Beach]

Next, my first day there, the shower heater started smoking and promptly stopped working.

In the super short term this is 100% your biggest issue that could easily kill you.

Just put the sprayer hose directly into the wall, bypassing it, yes cold showers but this is a extremely serious situation in its self.

Alot of the rest of the stuff is just Thailand.

[Pompey50]

I would be very careful here as one poster has said best to fly under the radar and not get into problems. Not only do you as a falang not have many rights in Thailand you could find yourself being visited by the police or worse to collect money.

This has happened to bar owners who did not pay there staff staff. It is an arrestable offence in Thailand for a foreigner not to pay a debt (though that may just be because the police will make money out of it)

In Jan 2012 I was in a seafront Bar/ restaurant one afternoon: in Jomtien: when 2 Russian couples refused to pay their bill claiming they did not get what they wanted. The owner pointed out they had eaten the food and drank their drinks without complaint so they must pay the bill. At that point the police who where only a short distance away came in alerted by staff and the Russians where then threatened with arrest unless they paid the bill and of course an additional sum as they had been called (tea money).

Just a cautionary tale but it serves to demonstrate how quickly things can escalate and get expensive in Thailand. You could consult a lawyer but then again there would be a cost implication that may be more than just paying the rent. I would just pay the rent and grin and bear it. Or move into another place for a month after the 2 months have passed.

[Wat dee]

dont belief this u r a faalang wt no rights bs. zip your wallet and demand what-s yours.Money talks and bs ...

These gutless besserwissers keep on scaring normal people about "thai corruption" etc..Like there is a police death squat eliminating falangs fighting for their rights.

[LivinginKata]

dont belief this u r a faalang wt no rights bs. zip your wallet and demand what-s yours.Money talks and bs ...

These gutless besserwissers keep on scaring normal people about "thai corruption" etc..Like there is a police death squat eliminating falangs fighting for their rights.

Best of luck to that poster. Bit over the top to talk about 'death squads'. But there is no doubt you would run the risk of being arrested and banged up a squalid police cell if the police get involved. If no police then you run the risk of being physically threatened, and you can expect to be beaten up. This applies in many areas of the world.

[mmh8]

read the lease, they are meant to be there to protect both sides.

You are well with in your rights to say you will not pay more. question though did you pay deposit? if so it may be forfeit if the landlord deems you to have broken contract, and getting it back is unlikely?

[iamariva1957]

The shower issue/s is your biggest problem. It could wind up killing you as Thai electrical techniques are strange at best. Usually the unit will not be grounded effectively and that is a MAJOR problem to you health!

As for the TV issue... unless the lease states that you will get English channels... "Free Cable" means just that; You are not paying for it. Whether or not it has the stations you want is irrelevant and up to the discretion of the owner (unless it is spelled out in the lease differently).

As for the WiFi... same applies. The owner has contracted that service out to a separate carrier or ISP (Internet Service Provider). I have 3BB as mine and they are not always pumping out the signal that they claim and I am paying for as per contract. So find out who your ISP is and complain to them. I do and I wind up getting a month at no charge... sometimes.

With-holding the rent (or any portion thereof) is not the wisest thing to do in this country. Our rights as Farangs are not many (if at all) and will require you to have a sympathetic ear of a local cop in order to be listened to and backed up. This can be had for some extra Tea Money (I'll bet) but it is a tall order to fill. You are better off paying what amounts to be cheep compared with Western prices and "stay under the radar" as has been suggested herein. That is always a good idea. But if you must stand your ground, which you have every reason to, especially with the shower problem... then do so in writing and be able to show that you have put the money somewhere (like a saving account... separate from your personal one... an Escrow might be possible (not sure about that here in LOS) so that no one can call you a thief.

Just act responsibly and with a smile. Talk to the other tenants in the building and have them do the same as you with regards to their problems with the new construction. It is true that new places have problems and given Thai building practices it is not strange at all! But they are NOT your issue and belong squarely with the owner. But being mad will get you nowhere FAST!

[Ghostnigel]

read the lease, they are meant to be there to protect both sides.

You are well with in your rights to say you will not pay more. question though did you pay deposit? if so it may be forfeit if the landlord deems you to have broken contract, and getting it back is unlikely?

If he pays the deposit, you bet your life the owner will keep it, he will say you broke his shower, so you pay.

If you pay the deposit you will lose it for sure.

[rotary]

Grin and bear it, consider it a lesson learned at a cheap price. Poor internet, no English free tv( This is good if they have no CNN-ha ha) and no hot water are pretty small things to make problems over. As far as the internet there is a chance other than bad service from the provider that there are too many people using the router if it is wireless. Many routers have a set amount of users that can log on. In many cases this is 99 but can be less or more.

Edited December 7, 2013 by rotary

[grumpyoldman]

dont belief this u r a faalang wt no rights bs. zip your wallet and demand what-s yours.Money talks and bs ...

These gutless besserwissers keep on scaring normal people about "thai corruption" etc..Like there is a police death squat eliminating falangs fighting for their rights.

"Police death squat"

After some bad somtam, I think I've had that !

Really Wat dee, where are you from and how long have you lived in Thailand? Trying to fight for your "faalang rights" (?) I wonder if you too might get a case of "Police death squat".

OP as metioned, options:

A. mai pen rai, be back at your better place in a couple months

B. pack up and move to another better temp situation

Stay and don't pay(?) not advisable as you will bring unwanted attention to yourself.

[ableguy]

The owner can have your ass kicked for a 1000 baht or less and will lose no sleep over it, but you will BEWARE.