Bangkok Unrest

[mgbcnx]

Anyone mystified by the political turmoil in the capital this past week would be well advised to read Thomas Fuller's insightful article in the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/world/asia/thailand-protests-reflect-searing-divisions-of-changing-country.html?ref=thomasfuller&_r=0

[beau thai]

Thanks for the link, but I didnt find it particularly insightful.

Divisions exist in every country between rich and poor and different parts of the country-not least in the US. And democracy is imperfect everywhere. Again, not least in the US, where the president elected by the majority is often unable to act, because the strong minority is able to prevent him from pushing through policies, on which he was elected.

The 'educated' minority oppressing the majority to hang on to what is 'rightfully' theirs doesnt work -eg Syria. And the opposite-eg Zimbabwe, where the 'educated' minority were evicted and dispossessed doesnt work either.

All political systems seem to me to be imperfect but some more so than others-perhaps the misfortune for Thailand (and I am no expert) is the lack of a strong, progressive government and a credible opposition with a credible unifying leader.

Clearly the country needs far better education to move forward - a cynic may feel that the existing 'educated' minority has little interest is raising up the uneducated majority to their educated level!

It is a great place to live and blessed with many resources; I hope the current instability does not hold the country back so it loses even more pace with its neighbouring countries.

[worgeordie]

Its no mystery,one half of the country is behind the big brother and

his idea of using public funds to promote populist policies and there

by win the most votes,then as all Thai Governments seem to have

done for ever,skim all the cream off the top.

The other side don't like a megalomaniac running the country by proxy,

everyday getting the country deeper in debit,and then some,using laws

to protect themselves and punish their perceived enemies,

But it all seems to be down to power and money,which both sides want,

at any cost,never mind what its doing to Thailand,and with no immediate

solution in sight it will just continue.

regards Worgeordie

P S these are just my views sure there will be others that have different

theories.

[mgbcnx]

To me what's insightful is the emphasis on a shifting power base--from an established, diminishing older order to a developing and expanding newer one. Most discussions I have read on this subject have identified individuals as the issues. Fuller asserts that the much larger context is socioeconomic.

[CaptHaddock]

I don't find Fuller's analysis persuasive. Instead, what you see is Thaksin as one among a number of super-wealthy godfathers. The traditional deal has been that the godfathers make money from economic concessions amounting to monopolies or oligopolies from the political sector who get a portion of the gains in the form of corporate board memberships and kickbacks of various kinds. But the godfathers do not compete for political power. Thaksin's difference is that he was unwilling to concede political control in the hands of the ammat. He made his own play for political power by recognizing the previously ignored electoral constituency in the Northeast. Since Thaksin threatened the traditional division of power and money among the elite he could not be tolerated resulting in the series of military and judicial coups that have kept him out of the country so far. In this point of view the Isaan electorate has been nothing but a political pawn. If the unrepresented peasant class were the source of the threat to the political economy the Democrat party could simply have fashioned policies to attract their votes by spending money on them just as Thaksin had done. Since they made no serious effort to do so (beyond the token suspension of the 30 baht fee in the health care program), the Democrats, at least, do not recognize the Isaan voters as the source of their problem, but the unruly Shinawatra clan, whom they have made the target of their efforts against democracy. Of course, anti-democracy does entail disenfranchising the bulk of the population, but that's hardly an innovation.

It would be different if Thaksin were a Nelson Mandela committed to the improvement of the poor or a Kim Dae-Jung committed to democractic principles, but as matters stand in Thailand, Thaksin is the best choice the poor have ever had.

[skills32]

What all westerners don;t take into consideration is the Thai culture system of reward of favours. I forget the word for it but it goes something like this;

If some one does me a favour then I am in that persons debt and I will do every thing that I can to repay or over repay that debt.

How do you think that Mr T got his satellite? From favours he had performed for people in power.

Why do the police favour PP? MrT promoted a relative to the top post.

It is all about favour for favour.

Irrespective of what a persons personal philosophy is a favour debt takes precedence.

Suthep knows what is/was happening and now has had enough of the political dogfight.

He is pointing out what is wrong with the Thai political scene and being an ex politician he is in the best position to right that wrong. Or at least show the way even at personal cost.

He has nothing to gain, personally, by his stand and I say good on him for doing what he is doing.

Just maybe ha has a conscience after all..

[hellodolly]

Thanks for the link, but I didnt find it particularly insightful.

Divisions exist in every country between rich and poor and different parts of the country-not least in the US. And democracy is imperfect everywhere. Again, not least in the US, where the president elected by the majority is often unable to act, because the strong minority is able to prevent him from pushing through policies, on which he was elected.

The 'educated' minority oppressing the majority to hang on to what is 'rightfully' theirs doesnt work -eg Syria. And the opposite-eg Zimbabwe, where the 'educated' minority were evicted and dispossessed doesnt work either.

All political systems seem to me to be imperfect but some more so than others-perhaps the misfortune for Thailand (and I am no expert) is the lack of a strong, progressive government and a credible opposition with a credible unifying leader.

Clearly the country needs far better education to move forward - a cynic may feel that the existing 'educated' minority has little interest is raising up the uneducated majority to their educated level!

It is a great place to live and blessed with many resources; I hope the current instability does not hold the country back so it loses even more pace with its neighbouring countries.

Well written I how ever look at it more as this present unrest placing Thailand in a better position to deal with the neighboring countries and the rest of the world.

In this growing world corruption in the long run serves as a deterrent to progress. that is what this present unrest is all about. the Government will survive it (unfortunately) but they will be a much more civic minded government than they have been. they no longer have a choice.

Up until this point in time they have been driven by two interests neither one beneficial to Thailand. One was to repatriate the former PM turned criminal in self imposed exile. the other has to try and buy votes for the next election. Neither one of these policies have been a help to Thailand. When the troubles have passed the PTPredshirts will have to take a good look at their policies and rearange them. They are now aware that the people are watching them.

Hopefully some one will come along with the clout and the interest to do some thing about the education system. Like you say it needs help it is a very sick patient. the Thai future is sitting in the schools today and deserves a decent education. This is the fault if the present and all past governments.

[hellodolly]

Its no mystery,one half of the country is behind the big brother and

his idea of using public funds to promote populist policies and there

by win the most votes,then as all Thai Governments seem to have

done for ever,skim all the cream off the top.

The other side don't like a megalomaniac running the country by proxy,

everyday getting the country deeper in debit,and then some,using laws

to protect themselves and punish their perceived enemies,

But it all seems to be down to power and money,which both sides want,

at any cost,never mind what its doing to Thailand,and with no immediate

solution in sight it will just continue.

regards Worgeordie

P S these are just my views sure there will be others that have different

theories.

I kinda of think that the one half signified by the red shirts is getting tired of Thaksin. Until the recent unrest the red shirts had started bickering among them selves and the only thing to bring them together was Thaksin opening his check book again.

I am looking to a much more civic minded government. Even though it is being done out of fear it will help Thailand some thing they definatly need.