PM offers House dissolution and national election

[Baerboxer]

Obviously the majority of people do not want it as the gov was elected in to power in the first place 2 years ago + http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/687232-govt-party-rejects-pm-yinglucks-resignation-house-dissolution/

Elections are due again in 2 years when the Dems will be on to another hiding, why embarrass themselves even more now.

That said, with an election now I guess if the Dems are defeated they would not object to the gov serving the remaining 2 years plus the additional 4 years the people will have mandated?

Nonsense, again. The majority did not vote for the current regime. Not even a majority of the votes actually cast and not spoiled.

You do inadvertently raise the question of how will she know what the majority of Thai people want ? A referendum? A show of hands? Send an sms? Vote by phoning a choice of numbers?

Interesting to see how this "wish of the majority" will be ascertained - but for sure it ain't obvious and certainly not obvious by misrepresenting the large minority vote of PTP as a majority, as so often happens.

Regardless of who wins, and PTP have not performed well recently, the eventual government must respect the law and obey it.

[Dogmatix]

Thailand's embattled premier said Sunday she was willing to call an election to end the political crisis gripping the country -- but only if protesters seeking her overthrow accept the result.

A good way to improve the chances of the protestors accepting the result would be, if resigned and went abroad until after the election declaring her retirement from politics. It would be even better, if her brother, sister, brother-in-law and cousin also quit but her brother has declared his retirement from politics so many times he cannot be believed. Chances would be improved even more, if the whole cabinet resigned and declined to act as caretakers, paving the way for consititution reforms making at the very least vote buying punishable by at least 10 years in prison without the possibility of parole. Some contrition regarding the incompetent self-serving performance of her government would help too in place of her persistent claims that she had no idea what was happening in Thailand while she jetted around at taxpayers expense on state visits to Andorra, the Vatican, Montenegro, Tanzania, Fiji and other important countries.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Dogmatix

[Thailand]

Obviously the majority of people do not want it as the gov was elected in to power in the first place 2 years ago + http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/687232-govt-party-rejects-pm-yinglucks-resignation-house-dissolution/

Elections are due again in 2 years when the Dems will be on to another hiding, why embarrass themselves even more now.

That said, with an election now I guess if the Dems are defeated they would not object to the gov serving the remaining 2 years plus the additional 4 years the people will have mandated?

Just to point out that PTP has been in power for two-and-a-half years, and the next election must be held by 5th July 2015, nineteen months from now.

They're well-past the half-way mark.

And any new government would have four years only, not 4 + 2 as you suggest ?

19 months, two years - this is Thailand nobody counts exactly/

2 + 4 just a little subtle humor.

Subtle humour is always welcome !

But my accountancy-training taught me that 19 does not equal 24, or anything like it, I'm afraid.

Obviously I was referring to the Klingon system where they have one year of 12 months followed by next year which just has 7 months- duh!

[lucjoker]

is it so important "who" comes to power ?

They all steal big time !

So dont waist our breath over it .

Look at Egypt,Tunisia,....the people won and the result?Same shit.

Give the power to the king ,i mean king Salomon .

[smutcakes]

I thought Suthep had already made it clear they don't want elections, they just want a peoples council with him as secretary general, despite this being his last involvement in politics

[PaulHamon]

annual elections; because I think they cannot afford to purchase votes that often.

[jackrich]

I thought Suthep had already made it clear they don't want elections, they just want a peoples council with him as secretary general, despite this being his last involvement in politics

Suthep is like Gaddhafi.

Gaddhafi also had a people's council and declared to the world that he was not really the leader of the country, but just the leader of the revolution.

[harber8]

To late. Every Thai and his dog is descending on Bangkok tomorrow.

Planes, trains, buses, booked to capacity.

I'd get off to Dubai on the only plane leaving if I were you Shin.

[waza]

Thailand is on the verge of a financial crisis, thanks to the populist policies scams, something has to be done and quickly. The answer was more loans to cover the short fall and finance the remainder of this administrations mandate to govern. However, the sum needed is growing rapidly due to rampant corruption and the people power have cut off Yinglucks funding from foreign investors and restricting the income from tourism, this money is desperately needed as Thailands credit card is maxed out. A 1 million person protest or anything near it will further dissolve the governments international legitimacy and foreign investors confidence.

The easy answer is to dissolve the present administration, win another election and put another Thaksin proxy government in place. But Suthep wants what Thaksin fears the most, to take away his power and move from a corrupt popularity contest. To form a government that he cant control and set up a system that will expose his machinations and leave not just him but his whole supporter base open to scrutiny. Thaksin has the potential to loose it all, and that's just what Suthep demands, a non partisan appointed administration to judge them all and punish the guilty.

Edited December 8, 2013 by waza

[khunken]

I thought Suthep had already made it clear they don't want elections, they just want a peoples council with him as secretary general, despite this being his last involvement in politics

Suthep is like Gaddhafi.

Gaddhafi also had a people's council and declared to the world that he was not really the leader of the country, but just the leader of the revolution.

And just look at the mess that is Libya now.

Suthep has left himself open to all sorts of criticism - some deserved, some not - but why perpetuate the lie about him being the leader of a people's council?

A referendum on the constitution is what's needed - to suspend it, rewrite it or let it stand. Suspension would open the way for a people's council with a nominee from PTP & the Dems plus an agreed independent somebody to select the make up.

[DiamondKing]

The headline would be more honest if it read "The PM conditionally agrees to offer house dissolution and national election IF there are no organic changes to the corruption laws first"

I DONT SEE THE POINT except she know as well as anyone that has a brain

She will win again

[jackrich]

Geez, why can't Yingluck understand this?

Suthep does NOT want new elections because he or the Democrats can't win them.

They want a people's council who then elects the PM. The people of Thailand should not be allowed to vote anymore.only then will they achieve true Democracy.

Why is this so hard to understand, Yingluck? Geeeeeez....

[whybother]

The Bangkok election, the Don Muaeng election or the Chiang Mai election? All of them with swings against PTP.

PTP might get the most seats if a general election was held now, but I doubt they would get the seat majority they have now, which would mean that they would have to get the smaller parties to support them to form government like they did in 2007.

I agree the PTP will remain in power whenever the election is held, with a coalition if necessary.

The Democrats were able to form a coalition in 2008 when the newly formed PTP tried to elect a new PM in parliament. It is possible they could do that again.

[jackrich]

To late. Every Thai and his dog is descending on Bangkok tomorrow.

Planes, trains, buses, booked to capacity.

I'd get off to Dubai on the only plane leaving if I were you Shin.

Let's hope there will be more dogs than protesters. At least someone will bring some intelligence to the gathering. Dogs are smart, you know? I like dogs. A lot. Edited December 8, 2013 by jackrich

[ianf]

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

There is a myth circulating that PTP were the winners of a democratic election. Wrong.

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

It's about allowing your opponents to speak and campaign: PTP drove them out of 'their' areas, threatened some people in some villages if they did not vote for PTP and encouraged their supporters to deface Democrat posters throughout the country.

It's about offering and discussing policies rather than bribes**

**(Computers for all kids, was a bribe not a policy, less than 10% are now used for education purposes; tax refund on car purchase was another bribe - this was not linked to any transport policy; extraordinarily high prices for rice - a bribe to the farmers in exchange for their support but not part of a sustainable agro-policy where, for example, the increased use of soil damaging fertilizers to create higher yields and therefore income is totally anti- any thought out agro policy.) From the red stages in 2010 and during the subsequent election campaign, no policies were on offer, there was no (what Hitler called) 'argumentation' - but there was a shed load Of emotional manipulation.

And on and on and on ....

A Thaksin dictatorship is the ultimate goal and off course this must be stopped. I give my full support to Suthep - a brave man indeed given Thaksin's vile human rights record.!

Edited December 8, 2013 by ianf

[jackrich]

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

There is a myth circulating that PTP were the winners of a democratic election. Wrong.

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

It's about allowing your opponents to speak and campaign: PTP drove them out of 'their' areas, threatened some people in some villages if they did not vote for PTP and encouraged their supporters to deface Democrat posters throughout the country.

It's about offering and discussing policies rather than bribes**

**(Computers for all kids, was a bribe not a policy, less than 10% are now used for education purposes; tax refund on car purchase was another bribe - this was not linked to any transport policy; extraordinarily high prices for rice - a bribe to the farmers in exchange for their support but not part of a sustainable agro-policy where, for example, the increased use of soil damaging fertilizers to create higher yields and therefore income is totally anti- any thought out agro policy.

And on and on and on ....

Until greater things happen and Thailand is in the hands of the Thaksin dictatorship.

And where is the proof of that? I keep reading these accusations but the reality is that my 5 year old makes things up too. Doesn't mean that it's true.

If you don't have the proof - maybe you can tell me the current weather situation in dream land?

[jpeg]

The choice appears to be an election, bought or not, delivering the PTP back but with a less overall majority, or a coup. Think a reduced majority allowing the opposition more say in checks and balances applied the better option. Let them slog it out between themselves, in parliament. Not to mention less scapegoating/harassing of expats in any 'winner's' show of ultra Nationalism. Because they always do.

[GeorgeO]

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

I agree, and I think that those who continue to harp on about how the Thaksinistra will simply get voted back in as a result of new elections have completely missed the point of the current demonstrations.

If the anti-government protesters are going to accept dissolution and new elections, it will have to be in the basis that the Shin clan are not involved...!

[DonThaiToMe]

Tragic that a small number of protestors are able to achieve this (if there will be new elections).

On the other hand, if there will be new elections, I think that the Suthep-team only have shot them self in the foot, and they will lose the election (again) big time!. Either way, in short term Thailand has only lost on this embarrassing show led by Suthep.

In the long term though, hopefully this farce can be a reminder that elections are held to be respected!

(Although I´m not counting on it, this is Thailand after all).

They have had fairly large numbers, as well as protests in places like Khon Kaen. The alliance against the current government is fairly broad across different sectors of society as well.

It seems that a large number of people do not understand how either governments nor elections are supposed to work particularly under the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy.

The assumption that PTP would win again in a big way is very probably not accurate. I would suspect something like the 2007 election results with a smaller gap between parties disputing the elections and a required coalition government where smaller groups are actually listened to. During this entire crisis have you seen or heard of ANY group meeting of the coalition partners currently in place? No. Have you seen or heard of minor coalition partners suggesting alternatives to PTP rule? (If you have paid attention, then yes.)

Does any of the media even pretend that any party in the government coalition mattters other than PTP? No.

Will YL who sits as the chair of the government body regarding Human Trafficking answer any questions about the recently emerged scandal? No

Rice pledging scheme answers? No.

Flood control answers? no

As Defense minister what has she done? Nothing.

Did she speak out against the last minute changes in the amnesty bill and denying the opposition even the chance at debating those changes to get the objections into the parliamentary record? No

Did she blame everything on the PTP MP's yes, Is she one of them Yes. Does she then take the out, I am the PM they did it on their own. Yes.

Is the country in more debt now than before? Yes

Is there a written plan for the 2.2 TRILLION baht? No

Could this list go on for pages? Yes.

When the government runs roughshod over the system, denies the courts validity, and works for the benefit of bringing back the PM's brother in a way that absolves him of his conviction, and whitewashes all the other cases against him, and tries to eliminate 2500+ corruption cases, etc etc etc .. it is not acting as a democracy. So why pretend?

All I hear is bla, bla, bla...

None of what you are writing defends occupying government buildings, taking over media, forcing them to broadcast what you (yellows & company) allows them to broadcast, etc, etc.

Show me where(!!) I defended the sitting government? All I´m doing is criticizing the way the opposition is going about making fools of themselves. While so many here are outright defending the means of the opposition. I´m 100% convinced they would never defend it in their own countries! Hypocracy at it´s finest.

You say ´they´ have "fairly large numbers". Perhaps ´they´ do. That is still your opinion (guess), not fact. Just as it is my opinion that ´they´ will lose support after this debacle. Only time will tell.

But if ´they´ want to ´fix´ the issues that you mentioned in your post, then ´they´ should do it by democratic means. Yes, there is a "Donald Duck" kind of democracy in LoS, but the only ways to come to terms with this is to respect the peoples votes.

Otherwise this will continue long past our lives...

[pookiki]

I agree the PTP will remain in power whenever the election is held, with a coalition if necessary.

Or another party could form the coalition government,

I would not be surprised to see many if not all of the other parties join in a non-Dem led coalition and invite the Dems and PTP (if they still exist) to participate, That result, though not being good for fighting corruption, would give a weak Unity government a chance.

Even if PTP got 36% of the seats and the closest other party only got 30% it does not guarantee a PTP led government, Remember PTP rode into power in 2011 with just under 50% but on the backs of the 2010 protest deaths, a small "no" vote campaign, and the red political machine that is not as firmly pro-Thaksin as in the past.

Frankly if there are new elections I expect them to not be able to seat a government, leading to another situation like 2006. 2 failed elections would likely result in a coup.

I am still predicting the military or the courts to deal with the current government, but elections under the current system could be just as bad as a military coup and perhaps worse.

What makes you think the Dems will still exist? Sedition and treason are a bit problematic. Yes, the PTP only got 48% of the popular vote but an outright majority in Parliament. It is very difficult for me to contemplate that the power base of the PTP has substantially changed. And I don't think that the power base has changed all that much for the Dems, either. Groan and moan as much as you want about Thaksin, I'd sure like to know who is bankrolling the current protests. As the old saying goes: Follow the money!

[animatic]

Well, well, one more rigged election to endure. TIT.

Edited December 8, 2013 by animatic

[icare999]

total BS just do it but she wont notice caveat if thats what people want what a load of crap if she's serious nothing stops her just doing it

[ggold]

That's what she offered in the first place. And then the idiots in her government said the opposite. And now she's back with the same offer.

What the hell is wrong with this government? Make up your bloody minds already!

It seems that maybe her strings are not being pulled by the puppet master, and that he is playing with his other puppets at the moment. The new head guy of CAPO is definitely mimicking the puppet masters words.

She should resign because it is obvious she doesn't control her MP's mouths. Too many deputy prime ministers and deputy ministers to be able to speak with one voice IMO!

[Tatsujin]

Wow, the red propaganda team are out in force here today, very interesting to see . . . she (I mean her brother) must be getting worried.

[Thailand]

Obviously the majority of people do not want it as the gov was elected in to power in the first place 2 years ago + http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/687232-govt-party-rejects-pm-yinglucks-resignation-house-dissolution/

Elections are due again in 2 years when the Dems will be on to another hiding, why embarrass themselves even more now.

That said, with an election now I guess if the Dems are defeated they would not object to the gov serving the remaining 2 years plus the additional 4 years the people will have mandated?

Nonsense, again. The majority did not vote for the current regime. Not even a majority of the votes actually cast and not spoiled.

You do inadvertently raise the question of how will she know what the majority of Thai people want ? A referendum? A show of hands? Send an sms? Vote by phoning a choice of numbers?

Interesting to see how this "wish of the majority" will be ascertained - but for sure it ain't obvious and certainly not obvious by misrepresenting the large minority vote of PTP as a majority, as so often happens.

Regardless of who wins, and PTP have not performed well recently, the eventual government must respect the law and obey it.

The PTP are in government so I guess they did something better than the Dems, perhaps they got more seats or votes or perhaps overall they are taller than the Dems.

Would be nice if there was an outright winner in 2 Klingon years time or next month. But whatever the case and whomever is in power we will be debating the pros cons faults etc on this forum which will still have zero effect on the country.

[zydeco]

To late. Every Thai and his dog is descending on Bangkok tomorrow.

Planes, trains, buses, booked to capacity.

I'd get off to Dubai on the only plane leaving if I were you Shin.

Let's hope there will be more dogs than protesters. At least someone will bring some intelligence to the gathering. Dogs are smart, you know? I like dogs. A lot.

Go ahead and admit, you're really on the side of the protesters and against the Shins, aren't you? Because virtually every post you make here drives new people into Suthep's camp and hardens the resolve of those already there.

[badmedicine]

Elections now would be the best solution all round. First, good for Thaksin as his lot are bound to win. Second, good for the Dems as they're bound to increase their seats (lots of dissatisfaction with the sitting gov't, and less voter apathy this time 'round it seems to me). Third, good for all the rural folk who will get their election 500 baht handout (twice, probably, as the Dems now know last time round they didn't offer enough baht nor to as many communities as PTP). Fourth, good for the economy as it will settle investor and tourist nerves.

Dissolve that house now! Everyone's a winner (though maybe not Suthep, but he's backed himself into a corner either way).

[kingstonkid]

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away. If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

[pookiki]

I thought Suthep had already made it clear they don't want elections, they just want a peoples council with him as secretary general, despite this being his last involvement in politics

Suthep is like Gaddhafi.

Gaddhafi also had a people's council and declared to the world that he was not really the leader of the country, but just the leader of the revolution.

And just look at the mess that is Libya now.

Suthep has left himself open to all sorts of criticism - some deserved, some not - but why perpetuate the lie about him being the leader of a people's council?

A referendum on the constitution is what's needed - to suspend it, rewrite it or let it stand. Suspension would open the way for a people's council with a nominee from PTP & the Dems plus an agreed independent somebody to select the make up.

There was a referendum on the Constitution if my memory serves me correctly. Is Suthep saying you have to scrap the current Constitution because the Constitution Court said you can't change the current Constitution so as to upset the current balance of powers??? Whose not accepting the court's opinion?

Edited December 8, 2013 by pookiki

[dru2]

I thought Suthep had already made it clear they don't want elections, they just want a peoples council with him as secretary general, despite this being his last involvement in politics

Suthep is like Gaddhafi.

Gaddhafi also had a people's council and declared to the world that he was not really the leader of the country, but just the leader of the revolution.

Are you related to Xerxes, the Persian God-King?