Suthep outlines Thailand's political future to media

[recycler]

It would have been a good laugh if it would happen in another country.....

[spare5]

"Suthep outlines Thailand's political future to media"

Seriously, Suthep, it's over. You got the govt out now let it be. They'll win again, but this time they may think twice about running roughshod over the law in order to further their own selfish desires and corrupt practices.

Not over yet. More media attention later today. BBC & CNN also invited, but won't be intimidated (like fake journalist Nick).

[louse1953]

Let's imagine a Thailand without Suthep and his demonstration:

1) Dr T is back and cleared of all wrongdoings

2) His confiscated money is returned to him with %

3) 2.2 trillion loan is ready and waiting for further instruction to which private account to transfer it.

4) senators are wifes and family members of lower house MPs which means that whatever party get's the majority of votes have no one to be accountable to.

5) Dr T can run for PM, or maybe since the constitution can be amended any way the goverment wants, for even more lucrative position.

Now if there were no protestors and no Suthep Thailand would be half way there as we speak. Does that sound democratic to you? Why are you pretending that there is a democracy in thailand and protestors are ruining it?

The system is broken and needs to be changed to ensure the voted in goverment abides by the rule of law. You might not like Suthep and his buddies i don't like him ether but is there anyone else offering change? Seriously, anyone?

And the staff he says about the police is just too good not to like .

Offering change and effecting change are vastly different. Nothing Suthep is offering resembles democracy. He moans and groans about the amnesty. Here is a person evading an arrest warrant and he failed to show up in court to face a murder indictment because 'he is too busy'. Rule of law? Who needs amnesty when the crooks who stay in the country can act with impunity? It all boils down to whose bread you are buttering. If Suthep can't get the military to enforce his PDRC, what is he going to do? In the meantime, every academic will crawl out of the woodwork to offer the 'best' solution for Thailand. Get on with the elections! After the elections, call for a Constitutional Convention. The mechanics of the Constitutional Convention can be worked out after the elections.

Suthep is a little out of our world i got to agree with that. But he did step up in a situation when Thailand future was at the stake and turned the situation to manageable with minimal damage as i believe. He is fighting an untrustworthy enemy that does not follow any rules so why should he? I'd still like him to face the murder charges like AV did ( and i do believe AV is a better men of the two) and i do believe he will stand in court otherwise he would jumped in on the amnesty wagon.

However let me ask you a question. PTP have demonstrated that it serves one man from afar only so if they get reelected why would they make reforms and bind their own hands? Chances are they'll start right where they left off and keep pushing their little Dr. T wagon from there, more cautiously perhabs. Who will do the much needed reforms? Demonstrations again? more blood? I can cope with PTP in power if they follow the law, but reforms should be done before an elections so future goverments don't have dictatorial power.

How do you legislate away influence - whether it is Thaksin or Suthep? Everyone is talking about 'reform' but I have no idea what that means. If politicians could act principled and set an example that would be sufficient reform for me. Abhisit showed up in court. He showed respect for the law. I respect him for that. There are so many people with power or influence who have placed themselves above the law. How do you reform that? As for corruption, the little guy won't doesn't even want to change. If a motorist is stopped for a traffic offense, it is easier to slip the cop a couple hundred baht instead of paying a 500 baht fine or showing up in court. Thaksin has become a symbol to unify opposition to power, corruption, and influence from a person in exile. In Thailand and in many other countries, corruption is endemic. If it isn't the government, it is organized crime. No law can make a person good or bad. It is a choice that a person makes every day of his life.

Imagine if every traffic offence showed up in court,does this happen in the west,not where i come from.The lower fine is to incourage people to stay out of court.Where the money goes after that is not my concern.Some may go to supplement police low wages which is recognised by any govt,in Th.

[pookiki]

A Prathom 6 teacher in a middle-class neighborhood in Bangkok was trying to gather the political leanings of her students. She asked them how many of them were 'Suthep fans'. Not sure of the question and wanting to satisfy the teacher, all of the students raised their had with the exception of little Ek. The teacher asked Ek why he wasn't a Suthep fan. Ek replied that his mother supported Yingluck and that his father supported Yingluck. Therefore, he supported Yingluck. The teacher, a bit miffed at this point, asked little Ek - "What if your mother was crazy and your father was a moron, what would that make you?" Little Ek replied, "I guess that would make me a Suthep fan."

[pookiki]

Imagine if every traffic offence showed up in court,does this happen in the west,not where i come from.The lower fine is to incourage people to stay out of court.Where the money goes after that is not my concern.Some may go to supplement police low wages which is recognised by any govt,in Th.

In most countries, you would mail in the ticket with a check in the amount of the fine noted on the ticket. Any amount of money accepted by a policeman that is not in conformance with the law is a bribe and, by definition, corruption. A person always retains the right to go to court to contest the charges on the ticket. It is a democratic right, isn't it? The person receiving the citation should respect the law as much as the person issuing the ticket.

[louse1953]

Let's imagine a Thailand without Suthep and his demonstration:

1) Dr T is back and cleared of all wrongdoings

>> Not. Senate (50% appointed) rejected the Amnesty bill.

2) His confiscated money is returned to him with %

>> Not: The top appeals court ruled to seize 2/3rds of his frozen assets.

3) 2.2 trillion loan is ready and waiting for further instruction to which private account to transfer it.

>> Not: Constitutional court is reviewing it first.

4) senators are wifes and family members of lower house MPs which means that whatever party get's the majority of votes have no one to be accountable to.

>> Not: Unless a charter amendment passes (Constitutional court blocks it), Senat is still 50% appointed.

>> Government is still accountable to: Constitutional court, NACC, Supreme Administrative Court, HM the King, and of course the general public, as per the next election.

5) Dr T can run for PM, or maybe since the constitution can be amended any way the goverment wants, for even more lucrative position.

>> Not: Again, amnesty bill as above.

None of what you say is true. (Additions in red mine)

The 2007 constitution implemented several institutions, outside of the control of the elected government, to limit the power of a single-party majority. And so far, they have done exactly that, maybe even a little too well.

Suthep's antics have achieved exactly nothing.

BS if you can't see what was happening then your either totally brainwashed or simply totally naive Suphet has put a brake on Taksins plan to totally take 100% control of Thailand and make it into his own 1 party police state.

we will see if Taksin still gets his way and then if he does you will see in a few years how totally blind you are

All it needs to put Thailand n a decent track is for the megalomaniac and his clan to step down for good and then like magic Suphet will be irrelevant. Since that wont happen Suphet or his replacement are needed to stop one of most evil people in this world namely the coward hiding away in Dubai or wherever.

Until Taksin gives up Thailand is set on a course for civil war or an army coup

The trouble with Taksin supporters such as yourself is you simply cannot understand that a large number of people even if a very large minority hate and loathe Taksin much more than paid and brainwashed hate and loathe the so called hoses in BKK

Thaksin is the problem,pure and simple,and must be stopped.He will never give up and in my opinion never get back to Thailand unless he comes back to do time.The fool should have done this years ago but ego does strange things to your head.It showed when he was PM that he couldn't handle critisism and would be surrounded by yes men which would only increase his meglamania.If he every got back into a position of power heaven help us,especially if the old boy was no longer with us.Retrebution would be taken.This man has a lot of hate stored up and it will come out and nobody on his side will stop him.This is has been seen before in the 1930's.Some countries in the world have a lot to answer for by providing sancuary for this criminal.It's up to Thai voters to end this,and if not it will continue.

[louse1953]

Let's imagine a Thailand without Suthep and his demonstration:

1) Dr T is back and cleared of all wrongdoings>> Not. Senate (50% appointed) rejected the Amnesty bill.

2) His confiscated money is returned to him with %

>> Not: The top appeals court ruled to seize 2/3rds of his frozen assets.

3) 2.2 trillion loan is ready and waiting for further instruction to which private account to transfer it.

>> Not: Constitutional court is reviewing it first.

4) senators are wifes and family members of lower house MPs which means that whatever party get's the majority of votes have no one to be accountable to.

>> Not: Unless a charter amendment passes (Constitutional court blocks it), Senat is still 50% appointed.

>> Government is still accountable to: Constitutional court, NACC, Supreme Administrative Court, HM the King, and of course the general public, as per the next election.

5) Dr T can run for PM, or maybe since the constitution can be amended any way the goverment wants, for even more lucrative position.

>> Not: Again, amnesty bill as above.

None of what you say is true. (Additions in red mine)

The 2007 constitution implemented several institutions, outside of the control of the elected government, to limit the power of a single-party majority. And so far, they have done exactly that, maybe even a little too well.

Suthep's antics have achieved exactly nothing.

BS if you can't see what was happening then your either totally brainwashed or simply totally naive Suphet has put a brake on Taksins plan to totally take 100% control of Thailand and make it into his own 1 party police state.

we will see if Taksin still gets his way and then if he does you will see in a few years how totally blind you are

All it needs to put Thailand n a decent track is for the megalomaniac and his clan to step down for good and then like magic Suphet will be irrelevant. Since that wont happen Suphet or his replacement are needed to stop one of most evil people in this world namely the coward hiding away in Dubai or wherever.

Until Taksin gives up Thailand is set on a course for civil war or an army coup

The trouble with Taksin supporters such as yourself is you simply cannot understand that a large number of people even if a very large minority hate and loathe Taksin much more than paid and brainwashed hate and loathe the so called hoses in BKK

Seriously, you are another anti taksin poster, if the majority of the thai people selected them and you are consider the minority opposition, you guy don't even respect the law or the HM. Listen to that crazy suthep that doesn't even respect HM or the law, telling lie that if there's not enough supporter he will surrender himself yet till now he still talk like he's the king of Thailand and act like one "clean" person, he's way worst than AV and Dr.T

Why Interpol and other countries not stepping in to help Thailand because of the coup that created by the elitist, royalist & people that paid the chief of army.

I have been in Thailand since the 2006 coup

Remember dr.t is self exile not kick out by the unelected govt

The people council Secretary General is suthep himself that also mean he control everything himself

How can that be fair in selection where all the elitist or scholar come in again to bully the poor

Come on, in this world, nothing is fair, but respect the majority people in the country

If you can't even do that, don't call yourself a god trying to reform the govt. you are not even fit to post here to talk abt reform

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run,if he was poor he would have been locked up a long time ago.Money talks many languages.PT did not win a majority by the way.Thais will get their chance to vote,but this previous government were a farce as soon as they started visiting and taking advice from a felon.His self interest has no bounderies.He want's his money back,with interest of course,and he wants revenge.

[pookiki]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run,if he was poor he would have been locked up a long time ago. Yes, Thaksin is a convicted criminal and there are numerous people in Thailand that would have been locked up a long time ago if they were poor. Money talks many languages. And it is still the most important language in Thailand! PT did not win a majority by the way. This has been said so many times but ignores the fact that PT enjoyed an outright majority in Parliament as prescribed by the representation procedures in the Constitution. Thais will get their chance to vote, Will they? I sure hope so! but this previous government were a farce as soon as they started visiting and taking advice from a felon. I think many Thai would feel better if Thaksin was in jail in Thailand but would it magically lessen his influence? His self interest has no bounderies.He want's his money back,with interest of course,and he wants revenge. Put Thaksin in jail along with all the others that belong there, too. Make 'rule of law' a meaningful phrase in Thailand!

Edited December 14, 2013 by pookiki

[louse1953]

It seems to me the the Anti Thaksin posters here have a bee in their bonnet about the man. But he was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician. Is it because he closed the bars at 1am?

You all I presume come from a democracy. 3 times now in recent years the will of the people have spoken, and 3 times that will has been taken away by 1st of all a military coup. Of course the Generals wanted to remove Thaksin he cut defence spending by nearly 1/3 between 2001 and 2006 it has nearly doubled since then. (This is as a proportion of GDP) Next they hold elections and the winner is set aside by a court. Again the will of the people is ignored by a court controlled by a small minority of the VERY wealthy elite.

And now again we see a small minority of the Thai population take to the streets and demand a democratically elected government be brought down and led may I point out by a man who is supposed to be in court on charges of causing the deaths of 92 people!

This is about as democratic as Hitler or Stalin. 'A people's council' made up out of people he deems to be qualified (his friends and supporters) is hardly democratic.

I am holding my breath waiting for the response to having the democratic will of the people taken away from them, yet again!

This is going to lead to widespread civil strife and even possibly civil war.

Note that unlike the previous government there was no violet crackdown leading to the deaths of many people. Unlike 92 people killed (murdered) during the crackdown on May 19th 2010.

Would you be happy as a US citizen if the people of Washington decided THEY are the only people qualified to elect a government? Or would you as a UK citizen be happy if a few selected elite Londoner's where to get to choose who the next government was to be? No you wouldn't. I understand people's dislike for Thaksin but was he any more corrupt than any other Thai politician?

Suthep should be behind bars in a straight jacket, if he thinks there is not going to be a response to his plans he is clearly deluded.

There will be another election and the 'Red' shirts will win again, ask yourself why. Because as flawed as they are, their supporters are the people who live outside of Bangkok and the 'Democrats' (okay they should change that!) support base, is the elite of Bangkok and a few in the south. I hear plenty bleating on about how bad Thaksin was and about how bad his sister is but at least they where elected. No one here has any suggestions on how to fix this stalemate.

Tell me guys did you leave your country because you don't believe in a democracy? Is that why your taking the side of the Military coup leaders and the small very wealthy Elite? (That was a rhetorical question by the way!)

I am not personally interested in the murky world of Thai politics and frankly the lot of them (on both sides), belong in jail for their many nefarious activities. All I care about is friends and love ones who may get caught up in the ensuing violence!

The 92 dead were told to catch free transport out of the fire zone or suffer the consequenses.Their choice.The army were provoced as was intended.They were there for 9 months after all,i rekon that's pushing it a bit.I remember speachs about burning the city,should this just be allowed to happen in the name of the dear leaders return.Get a grip on reality.This is not a rhetorical question.

[louse1953]

Imagine if every traffic offence showed up in court,does this happen in the west,not where i come from.The lower fine is to incourage people to stay out of court.Where the money goes after that is not my concern.Some may go to supplement police low wages which is recognised by any govt,in Th.

In most countries, you would mail in the ticket with a check in the amount of the fine noted on the ticket. Any amount of money accepted by a policeman that is not in conformance with the law is a bribe and, by definition, corruption. A person always retains the right to go to court to contest the charges on the ticket. It is a democratic right, isn't it? The person receiving the citation should respect the law as much as the person issuing the ticket.

As i have recieved a receipt for my fine this can't be called corruption.I was at fault by the way.

[pookiki]

It seems to me the the Anti Thaksin posters here have a bee in their bonnet about the man. But he was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician. Is it because he closed the bars at 1am?

You all I presume come from a democracy. 3 times now in recent years the will of the people have spoken, and 3 times that will has been taken away by 1st of all a military coup. Of course the Generals wanted to remove Thaksin he cut defence spending by nearly 1/3 between 2001 and 2006 it has nearly doubled since then. (This is as a proportion of GDP) Next they hold elections and the winner is set aside by a court. Again the will of the people is ignored by a court controlled by a small minority of the VERY wealthy elite.

And now again we see a small minority of the Thai population take to the streets and demand a democratically elected government be brought down and led may I point out by a man who is supposed to be in court on charges of causing the deaths of 92 people!

This is about as democratic as Hitler or Stalin. 'A people's council' made up out of people he deems to be qualified (his friends and supporters) is hardly democratic.

I am holding my breath waiting for the response to having the democratic will of the people taken away from them, yet again!

This is going to lead to widespread civil strife and even possibly civil war.

Note that unlike the previous government there was no violet crackdown leading to the deaths of many people. Unlike 92 people killed (murdered) during the crackdown on May 19th 2010.

Would you be happy as a US citizen if the people of Washington decided THEY are the only people qualified to elect a government? Or would you as a UK citizen be happy if a few selected elite Londoner's where to get to choose who the next government was to be? No you wouldn't. I understand people's dislike for Thaksin but was he any more corrupt than any other Thai politician?

Suthep should be behind bars in a straight jacket, if he thinks there is not going to be a response to his plans he is clearly deluded.

There will be another election and the 'Red' shirts will win again, ask yourself why. Because as flawed as they are, their supporters are the people who live outside of Bangkok and the 'Democrats' (okay they should change that!) support base, is the elite of Bangkok and a few in the south. I hear plenty bleating on about how bad Thaksin was and about how bad his sister is but at least they where elected. No one here has any suggestions on how to fix this stalemate.

Tell me guys did you leave your country because you don't believe in a democracy? Is that why your taking the side of the Military coup leaders and the small very wealthy Elite? (That was a rhetorical question by the way!)

I am not personally interested in the murky world of Thai politics and frankly the lot of them (on both sides), belong in jail for their many nefarious activities. All I care about is friends and love ones who may get caught up in the ensuing violence!

The 92 dead were told to catch free transport out of the fire zone or suffer the consequenses.Their choice.The army were provoced as was intended.They were there for 9 months after all,i rekon that's pushing it a bit.I remember speachs about burning the city,should this just be allowed to happen in the name of the dear leaders return.Get a grip on reality.This is not a rhetorical question.

Ever hear of the term 'arbitrary execution'? There are many ways to 'rationalize' the use of lethal force but there is no way to legitimize it.

[louse1953]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run,if he was poor he would have been locked up a long time ago. Yes, Thaksin is a convicted criminal and there are numerous people in Thailand that would have been locked up a long time ago if they were poor. Money talks many languages. And it is still the most important language in Thailand! PT did not win a majority by the way. This has been said so many times but ignores the fact that PT enjoyed an outright majority in Parliament as prescribed by the representation procedures in the Constitution. Thais will get their chance to vote, Will they? I sure hope so! but this previous government were a farce as soon as they started visiting and taking advice from a felon. I think many Thai would feel better if Thaksin was in jail in Thailand but would it magically lessen his influence? His self interest has no bounderies.He want's his money back,with interest of course,and he wants revenge. Put Thaksin in jail along with all the others that belong there, too. Make 'rule of law' a meaningful phrase in Thailand!

Good to see you agree with me on all my points.

[Jasun]

Fair call coming out against the amnesty bill, but I think he's now stuck wearing the gone too far hat.

[brit1984]

thailand does not need another thaksin (albeit with the different colour shirt)

suthep would be better as a stand-up comedian (with a deadpan delivery style)

[louse1953]

It seems to me the the Anti Thaksin posters here have a bee in their bonnet about the man. But he was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician. Is it because he closed the bars at 1am?

You all I presume come from a democracy. 3 times now in recent years the will of the people have spoken, and 3 times that will has been taken away by 1st of all a military coup. Of course the Generals wanted to remove Thaksin he cut defence spending by nearly 1/3 between 2001 and 2006 it has nearly doubled since then. (This is as a proportion of GDP) Next they hold elections and the winner is set aside by a court. Again the will of the people is ignored by a court controlled by a small minority of the VERY wealthy elite.

And now again we see a small minority of the Thai population take to the streets and demand a democratically elected government be brought down and led may I point out by a man who is supposed to be in court on charges of causing the deaths of 92 people!

This is about as democratic as Hitler or Stalin. 'A people's council' made up out of people he deems to be qualified (his friends and supporters) is hardly democratic.

I am holding my breath waiting for the response to having the democratic will of the people taken away from them, yet again!

This is going to lead to widespread civil strife and even possibly civil war.

Note that unlike the previous government there was no violet crackdown leading to the deaths of many people. Unlike 92 people killed (murdered) during the crackdown on May 19th 2010.

Would you be happy as a US citizen if the people of Washington decided THEY are the only people qualified to elect a government? Or would you as a UK citizen be happy if a few selected elite Londoner's where to get to choose who the next government was to be? No you wouldn't. I understand people's dislike for Thaksin but was he any more corrupt than any other Thai politician?

Suthep should be behind bars in a straight jacket, if he thinks there is not going to be a response to his plans he is clearly deluded.

There will be another election and the 'Red' shirts will win again, ask yourself why. Because as flawed as they are, their supporters are the people who live outside of Bangkok and the 'Democrats' (okay they should change that!) support base, is the elite of Bangkok and a few in the south. I hear plenty bleating on about how bad Thaksin was and about how bad his sister is but at least they where elected. No one here has any suggestions on how to fix this stalemate.

Tell me guys did you leave your country because you don't believe in a democracy? Is that why your taking the side of the Military coup leaders and the small very wealthy Elite? (That was a rhetorical question by the way!)

I am not personally interested in the murky world of Thai politics and frankly the lot of them (on both sides), belong in jail for their many nefarious activities. All I care about is friends and love ones who may get caught up in the ensuing violence!

The 92 dead were told to catch free transport out of the fire zone or suffer the consequenses.Their choice.The army were provoced as was intended.They were there for 9 months after all,i rekon that's pushing it a bit.I remember speachs about burning the city,should this just be allowed to happen in the name of the dear leaders return.Get a grip on reality.This is not a rhetorical question.

Ever hear of the term 'arbitrary execution'? There are many ways to 'rationalize' the use of lethal force but there is no way to legitimize it.

They were warned.These people were terrorists and the govt. allowed the army to remove them.Once the army was fired upon the army did what armies do.When the public take up arms it becomes legit.which will be borne out if it ever gets to court.

[newcomer71]

Ever hear of the term 'arbitrary execution'? There are many ways to 'rationalize' the use of lethal force but there is no way to legitimize it.

They were warned.These people were terrorists and the govt. allowed the army to remove them.Once the army was fired upon the army did what armies do.When the public take up arms it becomes legit.which will be borne out if it ever gets to court.

You are sure all 90 people were terrorists, right? And nurse killed inside temple during her duties should have been home right?

[pookiki]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run,if he was poor he would have been locked up a long time ago. Yes, Thaksin is a convicted criminal and there are numerous people in Thailand that would have been locked up a long time ago if they were poor. Money talks many languages. And it is still the most important language in Thailand! PT did not win a majority by the way. This has been said so many times but ignores the fact that PT enjoyed an outright majority in Parliament as prescribed by the representation procedures in the Constitution. Thais will get their chance to vote, Will they? I sure hope so! but this previous government were a farce as soon as they started visiting and taking advice from a felon. I think many Thai would feel better if Thaksin was in jail in Thailand but would it magically lessen his influence? His self interest has no bounderies.He want's his money back,with interest of course,and he wants revenge. Put Thaksin in jail along with all the others that belong there, too. Make 'rule of law' a meaningful phrase in Thailand!

Good to see you agree with me on all my points.

Not all, but most with caveats. My question to you: Will you respect the outcome of the next election as a true indication of the will of the Thai people?

[Old Man River]

"Mr Suthep said the door will be widely open for the Thai people to give their opinions on the selection of members for the people’s council after which"..... he'll appoint all those approved by the puppet masters. All this Taksin as bogey man is really getting old. He is #23 in wealth in Thailand... I dare say the invisible 22 above him are the ones to be concerned about. They are the string pullers behind the curtains. Taksins was fairly rich, popular, and smart enough to mobilize those outside of traditional power elite and be elected into power. He was not smart enough to neutralize the real power here, who gave a coup in his honor. He is no more corrupt than any other politician here.

The difference is that Thaksin used his power, as PM, to close down democracy's checks and balances, each time going forward with a little more power to close some more. He outsmarted the system. Due to his ability to use the democratic system, either directly or through others (family members, etc.), some no longer see democracy as we know it as being applicable for Thailand, at least not now. This is sad.

Thaksin has done a great job in garnering international support. Why else would he hire a well known lobbyist? YL, who I feel for (blood is thicker than water), instead of visiting parliament has visited 40 countries further garnering international support. When I hear that, coincidentally, the current government has support from 40 countries, all I can say is duh.

He is more corrupt because he allows more corruption so he can stay in power, even from afar.

[jsnho]

Let's imagine a Thailand without Suthep and his demonstration:

1) Dr T is back and cleared of all wrongdoings>> Not. Senate (50% appointed) rejected the Amnesty bill.

2) His confiscated money is returned to him with %

>> Not: The top appeals court ruled to seize 2/3rds of his frozen assets.

3) 2.2 trillion loan is ready and waiting for further instruction to which private account to transfer it.

>> Not: Constitutional court is reviewing it first.

4) senators are wifes and family members of lower house MPs which means that whatever party get's the majority of votes have no one to be accountable to.

>> Not: Unless a charter amendment passes (Constitutional court blocks it), Senat is still 50% appointed.

>> Government is still accountable to: Constitutional court, NACC, Supreme Administrative Court, HM the King, and of course the general public, as per the next election.

5) Dr T can run for PM, or maybe since the constitution can be amended any way the goverment wants, for even more lucrative position.

>> Not: Again, amnesty bill as above.

None of what you say is true. (Additions in red mine)

The 2007 constitution implemented several institutions, outside of the control of the elected government, to limit the power of a single-party majority. And so far, they have done exactly that, maybe even a little too well.

Suthep's antics have achieved exactly nothing.

BS if you can't see what was happening then your either totally brainwashed or simply totally naive Suphet has put a brake on Taksins plan to totally take 100% control of Thailand and make it into his own 1 party police state.

we will see if Taksin still gets his way and then if he does you will see in a few years how totally blind you are

All it needs to put Thailand n a decent track is for the megalomaniac and his clan to step down for good and then like magic Suphet will be irrelevant. Since that wont happen Suphet or his replacement are needed to stop one of most evil people in this world namely the coward hiding away in Dubai or wherever.

Until Taksin gives up Thailand is set on a course for civil war or an army coup

The trouble with Taksin supporters such as yourself is you simply cannot understand that a large number of people even if a very large minority hate and loathe Taksin much more than paid and brainwashed hate and loathe the so called hoses in BKK

Seriously, you are another anti taksin poster, if the majority of the thai people selected them and you are consider the minority opposition, you guy don't even respect the law or the HM. Listen to that crazy suthep that doesn't even respect HM or the law, telling lie that if there's not enough supporter he will surrender himself yet till now he still talk like he's the king of Thailand and act like one "clean" person, he's way worst than AV and Dr.T

Why Interpol and other countries not stepping in to help Thailand because of the coup that created by the elitist, royalist & people that paid the chief of army.

I have been in Thailand since the 2006 coup

Remember dr.t is self exile not kick out by the unelected govt

The people council Secretary General is suthep himself that also mean he control everything himself

How can that be fair in selection where all the elitist or scholar come in again to bully the poor

Come on, in this world, nothing is fair, but respect the majority people in the country

If you can't even do that, don't call yourself a god trying to reform the govt. you are not even fit to post here to talk abt reform

Seriously, you are just another Shin-rouge Thaksin supporter, supporting a tried, convicted, sentenced fugitive from Thai law. THAT's why he's in "self-imposed exile", which is a euphemism for "on the lamb". And THIS is the hero you're lecturing your fellow TV members about - lol. And you DO know that PTP received 48% of the popular vote in 2011, right? Not 51%, not 50%+1, not 50%, 48% (well, 48.4% if memory serves...).

Most of all, DON'T try to dictate who is and who is not "fit" to post here. Mind your manners.

Ask both of them go to prison together and stop talking abt power

Taksin is tried by a coup which is not legal in anywhere only in Thailand

This is one of the worst part that other country leader don't accept Thailand

Don't stay in Thailand and read the news

Go out and know more

[Spartakos]

OMG! is this psychopathic megalomaniac still beating his gums? It's about time the police did their duty and arrested him, what a sad little man.

My dear friend if the police would do it's duty there would not be a need for Suthep to be where he is now, so let's just leave it there.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Spartakos

[Spartakos]

Reform presumes that something needs to be done to cure something blatantly wrong or something that is so cumbersome that it prevents the proper functioning of government.

First and foremost, I will repeat: it is impossible to legislate morality. There is no way to cure greed and corruption without the majority of people involved in such acts changing the way they think about their own actions. There is no way to pass laws to rid any country of greed and corruption.

Then, let's look at the most 'hot button' issues associated with the recent actions of the PTP. To wit: 1) Amnesty; 2) the Constitutional amendment on the Senate; 3) The 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure project; and 4) the rice pledging scheme.

1. The Amnesty provision was particularly divisive because it applied to Thaksin. Was it illegal? I'm not aware of any legal challenge but the legislation has been withdrawn because of strident opposition to the measure. In most democracies of which I am aware, amnesties, pardons, commutation of sentences, etc., are pretty run of the mill. While people might disagree with them, there is nothing undemocratic their use. IMHO, Thailand needs some form of national reconciliation over the protests and the acts that started with the 2006 coup. If an amnesty is not a way to start that reconciliation process, I am not sure what is. If Thaksin is excluded from the Amnesty, is it more palatable?

2. PTP's attempt to amend the Constitution to provide for a Senate that was entirely elected was struck down by the Constitutional Court. Is an 'attempt' by any parliament to amend an existing Constitution so serious that it warrants 'reform'? Despite my personal feelings on the matter, the Constitutional Court exercised its 'check and balance' on the legislative branch. Obviously, the PTP wants to return to the provisions of the 1997 Constitution. Is this corrupt or an abuse of power? Is it corruption? Is it something that merits Constitutional reform? Maybe the Constitution should be amended to better prescribe the portions of the Constitution that are subject to amendment and to refine the process for final approval, etc. With respect to the MPs that used other MPs cards to vote for the amendment, they should be punished -- individually.

3. The 2.2 trillion baht budget for infrastructure development is in the hands of the Constitutional Court for review. OK. Again, the current checks and balances in the Constitution are working. But in most democracies, budget items are the sole prerogative of the legislative branch and not subject to judicial review. At any rate, what is it that needs to be reformed in the parliament adopting and voting on a budget? There is political disagreement on this issue but what else is new.

4. The rice pledging scheme is an agricultural subsidy. So was the plan to support the price for rubber growers. In most democratic systems of government, there are agricultural subsidies to varying degrees. What is undemocratic about such policies if they were adopted by democratic means? Again, it is a matter of political disagreement but hardly a measure that warrants reform.

'Reform' as used by Suthep means 'my way or the highway'. Or Suthep is asking the Thai electorate to believe in some undefined utopia where all government officials are honest and act in the best interests of the people. Can we have a different person other than Suthep trying to sell us this snake oil -- PLEASE?

You refer to actions of the CC a lot, it was their rulings and protestors that saved the country from political and economic suicide. I am also sure that you know that CC acted outside it's jurisdiction basically breaking the law.

Your posts suggest that a political system where coalition can be stopped only by nationwide protests, or illigal intervention from constitutional court from doing whatever they wish is a functioning democracy that does not need to be reformed?

What if ruling party gets the majority in senate and finds a way to limit the influence of CC how different it would be to a dictatorship? We will have " Taksin thinks-PTP acts-and the rest just watch the show"

P.S. There is other topics that people are not happy about with PTP.

Dr.T's passport

Red shirt deadly riots 2009-2010

Water managment projects

Faux, incapable PM

Soaring cost of living

Rampart corruption (yes it's much worse then during AV)

[pookiki]

Reform presumes that something needs to be done to cure something blatantly wrong or something that is so cumbersome that it prevents the proper functioning of government.

First and foremost, I will repeat: it is impossible to legislate morality. There is no way to cure greed and corruption without the majority of people involved in such acts changing the way they think about their own actions. There is no way to pass laws to rid any country of greed and corruption.

Then, let's look at the most 'hot button' issues associated with the recent actions of the PTP. To wit: 1) Amnesty; 2) the Constitutional amendment on the Senate; 3) The 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure project; and 4) the rice pledging scheme.

1. The Amnesty provision was particularly divisive because it applied to Thaksin. Was it illegal? I'm not aware of any legal challenge but the legislation has been withdrawn because of strident opposition to the measure. In most democracies of which I am aware, amnesties, pardons, commutation of sentences, etc., are pretty run of the mill. While people might disagree with them, there is nothing undemocratic their use. IMHO, Thailand needs some form of national reconciliation over the protests and the acts that started with the 2006 coup. If an amnesty is not a way to start that reconciliation process, I am not sure what is. If Thaksin is excluded from the Amnesty, is it more palatable?

2. PTP's attempt to amend the Constitution to provide for a Senate that was entirely elected was struck down by the Constitutional Court. Is an 'attempt' by any parliament to amend an existing Constitution so serious that it warrants 'reform'? Despite my personal feelings on the matter, the Constitutional Court exercised its 'check and balance' on the legislative branch. Obviously, the PTP wants to return to the provisions of the 1997 Constitution. Is this corrupt or an abuse of power? Is it corruption? Is it something that merits Constitutional reform? Maybe the Constitution should be amended to better prescribe the portions of the Constitution that are subject to amendment and to refine the process for final approval, etc. With respect to the MPs that used other MPs cards to vote for the amendment, they should be punished -- individually.

3. The 2.2 trillion baht budget for infrastructure development is in the hands of the Constitutional Court for review. OK. Again, the current checks and balances in the Constitution are working. But in most democracies, budget items are the sole prerogative of the legislative branch and not subject to judicial review. At any rate, what is it that needs to be reformed in the parliament adopting and voting on a budget? There is political disagreement on this issue but what else is new.

4. The rice pledging scheme is an agricultural subsidy. So was the plan to support the price for rubber growers. In most democratic systems of government, there are agricultural subsidies to varying degrees. What is undemocratic about such policies if they were adopted by democratic means? Again, it is a matter of political disagreement but hardly a measure that warrants reform.

'Reform' as used by Suthep means 'my way or the highway'. Or Suthep is asking the Thai electorate to believe in some undefined utopia where all government officials are honest and act in the best interests of the people. Can we have a different person other than Suthep trying to sell us this snake oil -- PLEASE?

You refer to actions of the CC a lot, it was their rulings and protestors that saved the country from political and economic suicide. I am also sure that you know that CC acted outside it's jurisdiction basically breaking the law.

Your posts suggest that a political system where coalition can be stopped only by nationwide protests, or illigal intervention from constitutional court from doing whatever they wish is a functioning democracy that does not need to be reformed?

What if ruling party gets the majority in senate and finds a way to limit the influence of CC how different it would be to a dictatorship? We will have " Taksin thinks-PTP acts-and the rest just watch the show"

P.S. There is other topics that people are not happy about with PTP.

Dr.T's passport

Red shirt deadly riots 2009-2010

Water managment projects

Faux, incapable PM

Soaring cost of living

Rampart corruption (yes it's much worse then during AV)

I'm confused. You say that you 'assume' that I know that the Constitutional Court acted 'outside' its jurisdiction. All I know is the way in which the court ruled and how it was related to the dispute at hand. If it is your contention that the Constitutional Court acted outside its jurisdiction, are you saying there was nothing illegal about PTP's attempt to amend the constitution? At least my argument was based on the facts as we know them today. You didn't address any of the substance of any of my arguments or state the reforms you think that must be made. "What-ifs" do not make an argument of any substance. If you think that the majority of Thai voters are upset enough with the PTP, then the 'proof in the pudding' will be the next election -- right?

Edited December 14, 2013 by pookiki

[Spartakos]

Reform presumes that something needs to be done to cure something blatantly wrong or something that is so cumbersome that it prevents the proper functioning of government.

First and foremost, I will repeat: it is impossible to legislate morality. There is no way to cure greed and corruption without the majority of people involved in such acts changing the way they think about their own actions. There is no way to pass laws to rid any country of greed and corruption.

Then, let's look at the most 'hot button' issues associated with the recent actions of the PTP. To wit: 1) Amnesty; 2) the Constitutional amendment on the Senate; 3) The 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure project; and 4) the rice pledging scheme.

1. The Amnesty provision was particularly divisive because it applied to Thaksin. Was it illegal? I'm not aware of any legal challenge but the legislation has been withdrawn because of strident opposition to the measure. In most democracies of which I am aware, amnesties, pardons, commutation of sentences, etc., are pretty run of the mill. While people might disagree with them, there is nothing undemocratic their use. IMHO, Thailand needs some form of national reconciliation over the protests and the acts that started with the 2006 coup. If an amnesty is not a way to start that reconciliation process, I am not sure what is. If Thaksin is excluded from the Amnesty, is it more palatable?

2. PTP's attempt to amend the Constitution to provide for a Senate that was entirely elected was struck down by the Constitutional Court. Is an 'attempt' by any parliament to amend an existing Constitution so serious that it warrants 'reform'? Despite my personal feelings on the matter, the Constitutional Court exercised its 'check and balance' on the legislative branch. Obviously, the PTP wants to return to the provisions of the 1997 Constitution. Is this corrupt or an abuse of power? Is it corruption? Is it something that merits Constitutional reform? Maybe the Constitution should be amended to better prescribe the portions of the Constitution that are subject to amendment and to refine the process for final approval, etc. With respect to the MPs that used other MPs cards to vote for the amendment, they should be punished -- individually.

3. The 2.2 trillion baht budget for infrastructure development is in the hands of the Constitutional Court for review. OK. Again, the current checks and balances in the Constitution are working. But in most democracies, budget items are the sole prerogative of the legislative branch and not subject to judicial review. At any rate, what is it that needs to be reformed in the parliament adopting and voting on a budget? There is political disagreement on this issue but what else is new.

4. The rice pledging scheme is an agricultural subsidy. So was the plan to support the price for rubber growers. In most democratic systems of government, there are agricultural subsidies to varying degrees. What is undemocratic about such policies if they were adopted by democratic means? Again, it is a matter of political disagreement but hardly a measure that warrants reform.

'Reform' as used by Suthep means 'my way or the highway'. Or Suthep is asking the Thai electorate to believe in some undefined utopia where all government officials are honest and act in the best interests of the people. Can we have a different person other than Suthep trying to sell us this snake oil -- PLEASE?

You refer to actions of the CC a lot, it was their rulings and protestors that saved the country from political and economic suicide. I am also sure that you know that CC acted outside it's jurisdiction basically breaking the law.

Your posts suggest that a political system where coalition can be stopped only by nationwide protests, or illigal intervention from constitutional court from doing whatever they wish is a functioning democracy that does not need to be reformed?

What if ruling party gets the majority in senate and finds a way to limit the influence of CC how different it would be to a dictatorship? We will have " Taksin thinks-PTP acts-and the rest just watch the show"

P.S. There is other topics that people are not happy about with PTP.

Dr.T's passport

Red shirt deadly riots 2009-2010

Water managment projects

Faux, incapable PM

Soaring cost of living

Rampart corruption (yes it's much worse then during AV)

I'm confused. You say that you 'assume' that I know that the Constitutional Court acted 'outside' its jurisdiction. All I know is the way in which the court ruled and how it was related to the dispute at hand. If it is your contention that the Constitutional Court acted outside its jurisdiction, are you saying there was nothing illegal about PTP's attempt to amend the constitution? At least my argument was based on the facts as we know them today. You didn't address any of the substance of any of my arguments or state the reforms you think that must be made. "What-ifs" do not make an argument of any substance. If you think that the majority of Thai voters are upset enough with the PTP, then the 'proof in the pudding' will be the next election -- right?

I'm sorry it seems that I have assumed too much thinking you read about the topics before presenting them here. My bad.

'What if's' are ment for you and any other readers who does think Thailand is functioning democracy to see how the power is distributed among the coalition-opposition-check's and balances system, it is completely broken.

Regarding the CC. Their rulings are binding to all and are final so if they have decided the amendments unconstitutional it must be so. The question is how this cases were submited. Procedure is that attorney general have to review the case and decide for it to be submitted to CC or not, but the trick is attorney general is appointed by ruling party as are most other institutions that are supposed to ensure the rule of law.

My take on reforms is that new framework should be stet for any future goverment to follow without possibilities for the goverment to influence law inforcement institutions, opposition should have influence in the parlament otherwise it is no better then one party state, MP's should be stripped of parlamentary immunity, strict anti corruption laws should be introduced( i personally like China's take on it- execution),full restructure of police force.

After all this is done the outcome of the elections must be accepted by all sides.

[pookiki]

Reform presumes that something needs to be done to cure something blatantly wrong or something that is so cumbersome that it prevents the proper functioning of government.

First and foremost, I will repeat: it is impossible to legislate morality. There is no way to cure greed and corruption without the majority of people involved in such acts changing the way they think about their own actions. There is no way to pass laws to rid any country of greed and corruption.

Then, let's look at the most 'hot button' issues associated with the recent actions of the PTP. To wit: 1) Amnesty; 2) the Constitutional amendment on the Senate; 3) The 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure project; and 4) the rice pledging scheme.

1. The Amnesty provision was particularly divisive because it applied to Thaksin. Was it illegal? I'm not aware of any legal challenge but the legislation has been withdrawn because of strident opposition to the measure. In most democracies of which I am aware, amnesties, pardons, commutation of sentences, etc., are pretty run of the mill. While people might disagree with them, there is nothing undemocratic their use. IMHO, Thailand needs some form of national reconciliation over the protests and the acts that started with the 2006 coup. If an amnesty is not a way to start that reconciliation process, I am not sure what is. If Thaksin is excluded from the Amnesty, is it more palatable?

2. PTP's attempt to amend the Constitution to provide for a Senate that was entirely elected was struck down by the Constitutional Court. Is an 'attempt' by any parliament to amend an existing Constitution so serious that it warrants 'reform'? Despite my personal feelings on the matter, the Constitutional Court exercised its 'check and balance' on the legislative branch. Obviously, the PTP wants to return to the provisions of the 1997 Constitution. Is this corrupt or an abuse of power? Is it corruption? Is it something that merits Constitutional reform? Maybe the Constitution should be amended to better prescribe the portions of the Constitution that are subject to amendment and to refine the process for final approval, etc. With respect to the MPs that used other MPs cards to vote for the amendment, they should be punished -- individually.

3. The 2.2 trillion baht budget for infrastructure development is in the hands of the Constitutional Court for review. OK. Again, the current checks and balances in the Constitution are working. But in most democracies, budget items are the sole prerogative of the legislative branch and not subject to judicial review. At any rate, what is it that needs to be reformed in the parliament adopting and voting on a budget? There is political disagreement on this issue but what else is new.

4. The rice pledging scheme is an agricultural subsidy. So was the plan to support the price for rubber growers. In most democratic systems of government, there are agricultural subsidies to varying degrees. What is undemocratic about such policies if they were adopted by democratic means? Again, it is a matter of political disagreement but hardly a measure that warrants reform.

'Reform' as used by Suthep means 'my way or the highway'. Or Suthep is asking the Thai electorate to believe in some undefined utopia where all government officials are honest and act in the best interests of the people. Can we have a different person other than Suthep trying to sell us this snake oil -- PLEASE?

You refer to actions of the CC a lot, it was their rulings and protestors that saved the country from political and economic suicide. I am also sure that you know that CC acted outside it's jurisdiction basically breaking the law.

Your posts suggest that a political system where coalition can be stopped only by nationwide protests, or illigal intervention from constitutional court from doing whatever they wish is a functioning democracy that does not need to be reformed?

What if ruling party gets the majority in senate and finds a way to limit the influence of CC how different it would be to a dictatorship? We will have " Taksin thinks-PTP acts-and the rest just watch the show"

P.S. There is other topics that people are not happy about with PTP.

Dr.T's passport

Red shirt deadly riots 2009-2010

Water managment projects

Faux, incapable PM

Soaring cost of living

Rampart corruption (yes it's much worse then during AV)

I'm confused. You say that you 'assume' that I know that the Constitutional Court acted 'outside' its jurisdiction. All I know is the way in which the court ruled and how it was related to the dispute at hand. If it is your contention that the Constitutional Court acted outside its jurisdiction, are you saying there was nothing illegal about PTP's attempt to amend the constitution? At least my argument was based on the facts as we know them today. You didn't address any of the substance of any of my arguments or state the reforms you think that must be made. "What-ifs" do not make an argument of any substance. If you think that the majority of Thai voters are upset enough with the PTP, then the 'proof in the pudding' will be the next election -- right?

I'm sorry it seems that I have assumed too much thinking you read about the topics before presenting them here. My bad.

'What if's' are ment for you and any other readers who does think Thailand is functioning democracy to see how the power is distributed among the coalition-opposition-check's and balances system, it is completely broken.

Regarding the CC. Their rulings are binding to all and are final so if they have decided the amendments unconstitutional it must be so. The question is how this cases were submited. Procedure is that attorney general have to review the case and decide for it to be submitted to CC or not, but the trick is attorney general is appointed by ruling party as are most other institutions that are supposed to ensure the rule of law.

My take on reforms is that new framework should be stet for any future goverment to follow without possibilities for the goverment to influence law inforcement institutions, opposition should have influence in the parlament otherwise it is no better then one party state, MP's should be stripped of parlamentary immunity, strict anti corruption laws should be introduced( i personally like China's take on it- execution),full restructure of police force.

After all this is done the outcome of the elections must be accepted by all sides.

So let me make sure I understand. According to your legal analysis of Thailand's current Constitution, the Constitution Court's ruling on PTP's Constitutional amendment was procedurally defective but the outcome has to be respected nonetheless. [And by the way, you still didn't address how any of the PTP's actions I noted were illegal or undemocratic.] You say that government should not be able to influence law enforcement institutions. No disrespect intended but I find this to be a very strange concept. In most democracies in which I am familiar, law enforcement institutions are not independent 'institutions'. Invariably, they fall under the executive branch at the national and local level. And how to you 'guarantee' the opposition influence in the decision making process? Do you require more than a majority vote to pass any law or policy? As for strict laws on corruption or for any other issue, how does that guarantee enforcement? And if you like China's take, are you endorsing a one-party solution? Lastly, you do not state how all of this is going to be accomplished in a democratic and inclusive process before the elections? You talk about people being 'unhappy' with the PTP. Do you think the goal of democracy is to make everyone happy? If so, the government should give everyone free prescriptions for Zoloft or Prozac. A democracy functions on the basis of majority rule. It makes some people happy and other people 'unhappy'. That's its nature.

[Spartakos]

You want me to give you a list of PTP's wrongdoings which you would regard undemocratic, let me try to remember few

1.an attempt at the whole rewrite of constitution was stopped by CC

2. attempt to make unconstitutional amendments were stopped by CC

3. Vote fraud by coalition MP's condemned by CC

4.Unanimous passage of undemocratic amnesty bill( there is no court ruling on that but i hope you see the reason and admit the nature of that peace of legislation )

5. Numerous confirmation of the ruling party that a convicted criminal and a foreign national is having a heavy influence on ruling political party ( that could be considered treason)

6. double standart policies applied to anti and pro goverment protesters.

The list would be much longer if public could get a results on those commeettees and panels that PM set to investigate RIce scheme, water managment projects, Dr.T's passport etc but I am afraid not much would be found since a defendant is able to appoint a person to investigate oneself.

The democracy word that you like to use so much means the rule of people but all i saw so far from PTP is working against the people, they caused unprecedented damage to the economy of the country and the goverment is still unclear how much money they have actually lost, do you consider this democratic?

Thai democracy is anything but a rule of people, reform is badly needed. I am sorry but if you still don't realize that then i can't help you. Go talk to some Thais that are politically aware of the situation maybe then you will change your mind.

The whole country is united in one thing- they want change but then you come and say "no, it's working fine, just as intended"

[pookiki]

You want me to give you a list of PTP's wrongdoings which you would regard undemocratic, let me try to remember few

1.an attempt at the whole rewrite of constitution was stopped by CC

2. attempt to make unconstitutional amendments were stopped by CC

3. Vote fraud by coalition MP's condemned by CC

4.Unanimous passage of undemocratic amnesty bill( there is no court ruling on that but i hope you see the reason and admit the nature of that peace of legislation )

5. Numerous confirmation of the ruling party that a convicted criminal and a foreign national is having a heavy influence on ruling political party ( that could be considered treason)

6. double standart policies applied to anti and pro goverment protesters.

The list would be much longer if public could get a results on those commeettees and panels that PM set to investigate RIce scheme, water managment projects, Dr.T's passport etc but I am afraid not much would be found since a defendant is able to appoint a person to investigate oneself.

The democracy word that you like to use so much means the rule of people but all i saw so far from PTP is working against the people, they caused unprecedented damage to the economy of the country and the goverment is still unclear how much money they have actually lost, do you consider this democratic?

Thai democracy is anything but a rule of people, reform is badly needed. I am sorry but if you still don't realize that then i can't help you. Go talk to some Thais that are politically aware of the situation maybe then you will change your mind.

The whole country is united in one thing- they want change but then you come and say "no, it's working fine, just as intended"

Contrary to your belief, I do talk to Thais - every day - and they are just normal working or retired people. And I don't find the unanimity in thought you assert. That's why the only true barometer of how people feel about an issue is an election. You have your personal beliefs and so do I. Just read the news that Suthep tried to get the Army to come over to the PDRC side. How does that fit into your scheme of things of having the police and military free from outside influence? If I there is any Thai group for which I would identify a philosophical alignment, it would be Nitirat. Be that as it may. No democracy is perfect, my friend. No democracy works 'just fine'. If the whole country is united as you say, then you should not be afraid of an election and knowing the true will of the people. I respect your opinions even though I disagree with them. I think Patrick Henry said something about that some time ago. You can't create a utopia. It doesn't mean you can't always work to improve things - we all should. It is just a matter of how you do that. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[longway]

You want me to give you a list of PTP's wrongdoings which you would regard undemocratic, let me try to remember few

1.an attempt at the whole rewrite of constitution was stopped by CC

2. attempt to make unconstitutional amendments were stopped by CC

3. Vote fraud by coalition MP's condemned by CC

4.Unanimous passage of undemocratic amnesty bill( there is no court ruling on that but i hope you see the reason and admit the nature of that peace of legislation )

5. Numerous confirmation of the ruling party that a convicted criminal and a foreign national is having a heavy influence on ruling political party ( that could be considered treason)

6. double standart policies applied to anti and pro goverment protesters.

The list would be much longer if public could get a results on those commeettees and panels that PM set to investigate RIce scheme, water managment projects, Dr.T's passport etc but I am afraid not much would be found since a defendant is able to appoint a person to investigate oneself.

The democracy word that you like to use so much means the rule of people but all i saw so far from PTP is working against the people, they caused unprecedented damage to the economy of the country and the goverment is still unclear how much money they have actually lost, do you consider this democratic?

Thai democracy is anything but a rule of people, reform is badly needed. I am sorry but if you still don't realize that then i can't help you. Go talk to some Thais that are politically aware of the situation maybe then you will change your mind.

The whole country is united in one thing- they want change but then you come and say "no, it's working fine, just as intended"

Contrary to your belief, I do talk to Thais - every day - and they are just normal working or retired people. And I don't find the unanimity in thought you assert. That's why the only true barometer of how people feel about an issue is an election. You have your personal beliefs and so do I. Just read the news that Suthep tried to get the Army to come over to the PDRC side. How does that fit into your scheme of things of having the police and military free from outside influence? If I there is any Thai group for which I would identify a philosophical alignment, it would be Nitirat. Be that as it may. No democracy is perfect, my friend. No democracy works 'just fine'. If the whole country is united as you say, then you should not be afraid of an election and knowing the true will of the people. I respect your opinions even though I disagree with them. I think Patrick Henry said something about that some time ago. You can't create a utopia. It doesn't mean you can't always work to improve things - we all should. It is just a matter of how you do that. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Imagine a thai election where the electorate were given the option of voting None of the above and if that came first elections would be run again with new candidates. Then you would give thais the option to throw out the bath water and not the baby.

Until then you hv to rely in the CC curtailing the worst excesses to the PTP, i am sure can see they are as hilariously misnamed as the democrat party.

[englishoak]

The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.

Aldous Huxley brave new world

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.

Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand .”
― George Orwell, 1984

That is all.

Edited December 14, 2013 by englishoak

[brit1984]

There is no hope of a stable political situation being achieved in Thailand until either side modernize by ridding themselves of those individuals tainted by histories of corruption / cheating (including, but not limited to, Thaksin and Suthep) and set themselves up (and present themselves) in such a way that all the people (including supporters of the opposition) can accept that they came to power, and are using their power, in a fair and proper way (notwithstanding that obviously some will not agree with particular policies / ideological themes).

I don't think there is much value in either side (either the government or the opposition) listing / explaining / shouting about the historical wrongdoings of the other side, as by now the shortcomings on both sides are well known. Rather, the focus on both sides should now be on identifying, accepting and fixing their own problems, and convincing the electorate as a whole (not just their own fanatics) that they are the best party for the future (rather than this never ending, negative and by now quite pointless discussion / argument / bickering about who was the worst in the past).

[Smokemachine]

Suthep is the only one who dare to bring them down openly. But too bad because of his past wrongdoing, people start to question his credibilty and his real intention. Accusing him of trying change the current " TS DEMOCRACY" system to his dictatorship.

The reform party should have find a new face with clean records to challenge the TS regime. Then probably will shut these pro-TS mouth up.

All these TS supporters conveniently pointing on Suthep while nothing is talk about the current govt.

The current picture is painted like a ex-con man, a madman, a cun_t man, or whatever man they can put Suthep as is trying to take down our beloved YL govt. A government who is scamming caring for the nation and the thai people.

So many are helping TS. What will Thailand's destiny be??

Sa toot........