Participants at Thai govt forum: Election must go ahead

[webfact]

'Election must go ahead'
The Nation


A man dressed like superhero

Participants at govt forum back February 2 poll; say winning party must commit to reform agenda

BANGKOK: -- Suggestions and promises filled a meeting room in the Queen Sirikit National Convention Centre yesterday, where most participants said the best way to solve the political crisis was to hold a general election on February 2 next year.

In the government-hosted forum to find solutions to end the current impasse, politicians, academics and red-shirt leaders also agreed that talks on reforms should continue to ease groups' differences over the long-term.

Joining the forum were representatives from seven major business organisations, the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD or red shirts), the Assembly for the Defence of Democracy (AFDD), academics, permanent secretaries, police and military officers, state enterprise employees, the media, plus political parties and senators.

However, two key groups calling for change - the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) and Democrat Party - did not attend this event.

PDRC leader Sathit Wongnongtoey announced yesterday that the group would start a pre-election reform campaign on Monday and vowed that the group would not to soften its stance or seek any negotiations with the government.

At the forum yesterday, Nikorn Chamnong, an adviser to Chart Thai Pattana, said the party would join the election, as it shared the international conviction that nothing is better than returning power to the people. Yet, the party also saw the need for further talks, to resolve long-standing differences on political ideals.

Caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Phonghtep Thepkanjana expressed disappointment that the PDRC opted out of the forum but said comprehensive reform would take years to complete. However, it would take only two years to set a reform mechanism in place, for a transparent and fair political system and elections.

He agreed with academics' proposals that politicians ratify the will to reform, before joining the election. Any party winning the poll would have to carry out the reform process. After two years in office, the government would then dissolve the House and call a new election.

Chaturon Chaisang, as a representative of Pheu Thai Party, admitted that the election would partially ease differences. "The crisis stems from not only some groups' belief that the election will not be transparent, but also their lack of faith in the electoral system and democracy."

The issue now, he said, was how to ensure that the election was the best way to ease the crisis. At the forum, he urged all politicians to make a vow what they can do in this regard and what they will do after the election.

"Post-election reforms are possible, if all agree to a limited term for the new government. Winning the election, the government would not survive long anyway. However, without ratification from all parties, the problem will not end in light of the issue of advantage and disadvantage."

PM's Office secretary-general Tongthong Chandrangsu, who represented the government in hosting yesterday's forum, said it was agreed at the forum that short- and long-term reforms were necessary and they will deal not only with political issues but also economic issues, corruption, a redistribution of administrative power, and equality.

"No matter what happens in our Kingdom, the reforms must proceed," he said. Tongthong also welcomed the calls for his office to mediate the formation of a national reform network. Though unsure when the network could kick off, he considered this a good gesture for the country.

Participants at the forum also opposed the PDRC's push for a "People’s council", saying this would lead to a bigger crisis including a possible uprising.

Permanent secretary of Defence, General Nipat Thonglek, said military leaders, led by Supreme Commander General Thanasak Patimaprakorn, gave their stance on Saturday - that they back a general election on February 2. "The military are ready to support the Election Commission (EC) to ensure a free and fair election.".

He insisted that the military had an important duty to protect the Constitution and maintain democracy.

National Legislative Assembly (NLA) member Gothom Arya demanded that the Democrat Party show its stance - and that it would not boycott the February 2 election.

Tongthong said that despite some argument, most participants at the forum yesterday agreed to hold the election on February 2. He also referred to the Army's offer to help to ensure transparency.

In supporting the election, National Security Council chief Paradorn Pattanatabut also said the NSC was ready to campaign for cooperation from all civil servants, soldiers and police.

Verapat Pariyawong, who describes himself as an independent lawyer, said PDRC leaders had accused the "Thaksin regime" of being illegitimate since the government rejected a ruling of the Constitution Court. So, the PDRC must respect the charter and go to a fresh election. He said the election should be open to all observers.

"If we accept some conditions to respond to the PDRC's demands, it will set a new social norm and the country will enter into a danger zone." He supported the proposal for political parties to ratify the task of reform for the new government.

Key proposals at 3 forums

Private sector: Four options for dealing with the economy, the electoral system, inequality and corruption were announced a day after meeting with the PDRC.

Army-hosted forum: Army leaders insist the February 2 election date must be maintained, with proposals to reform some areas, such as a statutory limit on corruption cases. The PDRC pushed for a People’s Council.

Govt forum: Politicians, academics and red-shirts joined this, but not the PDRC. All supported the Feb 2 poll date, with a promise to have the new government carry out a reform process in two years.


-- The Nation 2013-12-16

[tominbkk]

Welcome to same as before. And daddy will be home soon. Then the genocide will begin.

Edited December 15, 2013 by tominbkk

[Ricardo]

I don't see what proposals or input the caretaker-PM made, to these meetings, which she had called ?

Also didn't see any commitment, to the post-election reforms being validated by a national-referendum, of the electorate ?

[whybother]

How do any of the proposed reforms from any group become legislation prior to the election. It's all good and well to say that any new government has to call elections in two years, but unless it's law, it probably won't happen.

[Chupup]

Now just where have i heard all of this before Now we can all go home the VOTE BUYING will go on as is the usual ptactice,the government will be returned and any REFORMS will convenilenty be put on the back burner untill they can be forgoten and the rape of Thailand will continue, the house was disolved & the Pm resigned, then the " caretaker" government took over SAME PM same people same ministers same government only different name nothing has changed and when all rhe protesters have gone home i doubt anything will ! for the sake of Thailand , I Hope I am WRONG

[ramrod711]

"If we accept some conditions to respond to the PDRC's demands, it will set a new social norm and the country will enter into a danger zone."

Well, nothing should change then, we wouldn't want to upset the stability of the country. People should definitely not be flexible or recognise that someone else might have a valid opinion. Goodness gracious, who would want to live in a country where people are willing to see the other guys point of view.

[Buffy Frobisher]

Anything to keep their snouts in the trough just that little bit longer.

[yellow1red1]

How do any of the proposed reforms from any group become legislation prior to the election. It's all good and well to say that any new government has to call elections in two years, but unless it's law, it probably won't happen.

There is a way, before elections, but it can't be talked about here.* It has to do with negotiations from the 1930's.

If properly followed out, Suthep would have nothing to do with it. Candidates and Civil Managers would have to have very clean reputations, experience and comptence.

* [FB Friends of nation and BKK Post Forum allows open talks ...

[PREM-R]

Now just where have i heard all of this before Now we can all go home the VOTE BUYING will go on as is the usual ptactice,the government will be returned and any REFORMS will convenilenty be put on the back burner untill they can be forgoten and the rape of Thailand will continue, the house was disolved & the Pm resigned, then the " caretaker" government took over SAME PM same people same ministers same government only different name nothing has changed and when all rhe protesters have gone home i doubt anything will ! for the sake of Thailand , I Hope I am WRONG

Yes the vote buying will go on IF the Democrat party decides to take part in the democratic process.

Deputy Democrat party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot in an interview that was broadcast on May 31, 2013 on John Winyu’s show (****Thai language removed****) stated:

“Recently, if we speak directly, they [Puea Thai] use little money. I am not saying we [the Democrats] use more money than them [Puea Thai]. [host interprets with statement "they are using less money"]. It has become inverted [host interprets and says "They don't need to use so much money?"] I say if it is like that then don’t say we lost because of money”. “For the last election, it may be because we actually used more than them. Therefore, don’t talk about this issue anymore."

So there we have it "from the horse's mouth", vote buying is alive and well...... in the Democrat party.

Edited December 16, 2013 by metisdead
Thai language edited out of post. This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except in the Thai language forum where Thai language is allowed.

[waza]

Interesting comments.........

"In the government-hosted forum to find solutions to end the current impasse, politicians, academics and red-shirt leaders also agreed that talks on reforms should continue to ease groups' differences over the long-term."

So the forum isn't to reform the political process and strengthen checks and balances it is designed to appease the opposition, basically a PR stunt. The result is something should be done sometime in the future til then its a continuation of the status quo.

[WhizBang]

Participants at govt forum back February 2 poll

Well there's a surprise! Not.

Of course they want the Feb 2 election. That will just mean a repeat of the past two years, probably with even more serious consequences.

Suthep is right, the reforms MUST be implemented before a new election.

[Baerboxer]

Participants at govt forum back February 2 poll

Well there's a surprise! Not.

Of course they want the Feb 2 election. That will just mean a repeat of the past two years, probably with even more serious consequences.

Suthep is right, the reforms MUST be implemented before a new election.

Sadly you're probably right. All a PTP talk shop and PR exercise. PTP have no interest in reforming the electoral system. Why should they? However, they will be very keen to amend the checks and balances and parliamentary procedures if they get back. Wonder how they will dress the whitewash up this time?

Despite weeks of saying she would never resign or dissolve parliament, she did just that. All to buy time, keep control, feather the nest and get international sympathy and support. (Notice the international support received is for democracy and free elections - none actually support any of the protagonists).

Can anyone imagine how a PTP government, returned with all the old TRT/PPP cronies, will behave?

Mrs Boxer is already suggesting we move back to Europe if that happens and their thinker is returned to power.

[tingtongteesood]

Now just where have i heard all of this before Now we can all go home the VOTE BUYING will go on as is the usual ptactice,the government will be returned and any REFORMS will convenilenty be put on the back burner untill they can be forgoten and the rape of Thailand will continue, the house was disolved & the Pm resigned, then the " caretaker" government took over SAME PM same people same ministers same government only different name nothing has changed and when all rhe protesters have gone home i doubt anything will ! for the sake of Thailand , I Hope I am WRONG

Yes the vote buying will go on IF the Democrat party decides to take part in the democratic process.

Deputy Democrat party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot in an interview that was broadcast on May 31, 2013 on John Winyu’s show (****Thai language removed****) stated:

“Recently, if we speak directly, they [Puea Thai] use little money. I am not saying we [the Democrats] use more money than them [Puea Thai]. [host interprets with statement "they are using less money"]. It has become inverted [host interprets and says "They don't need to use so much money?"] I say if it is like that then don’t say we lost because of money”. “For the last election, it may be because we actually used more than them. Therefore, don’t talk about this issue anymore."

So there we have it "from the horse's mouth", vote buying is alive and well...... in the Democrat party.

Uh, hello Mr. red.

Have the Dems ever been banned and dissolved foir electoral fraud ? No, didn't think so.

Have Thaksin's parties ever been banned and dissolved for electoral fraud ? Yes, 3 times.

The defense rests.....

[Nibbles48]

I don't see what proposals or input the caretaker-PM made, to these meetings, which she had called ?

Also didn't see any commitment, to the post-election reforms being validated by a national-referendum, of the electorate ?

Yingluck will never attend any platform for fear that she is asked a question.

Even though she denied not attending, she didn't attend, everyone knew she wouldn't risk going. She is a complete joke and she makes every single red shirted voter a complete joke too.

[PREM-R]

tingtongteesood

"Uh, hello Mr. red.

Have the Dems ever been banned and dissolved foir electoral fraud ? No, didn't think so.

Have Thaksin's parties ever been banned and dissolved for electoral fraud ? Yes, 3 times.

The defense rests."

How can you defend the dems when their deputy party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot has admitted that their party spends more on vote buying NOW than PTP? He has admitted the 'crime', you have nothing to defend.

[Nibbles48]

I find it quite amusing for a government who dug their heels in so hard to reject dissolution of parliament, eventually cave in and dissolve. Then announce elections, and are even offering concessions to make that election a reality. It's almost like they are begging for the election.

It seems to me that Suthep and the protesters have this dopey government clearly on the run. They know they can disrupt the elections and they will never conclude (if they actually begin).

The protesters just need to keep chipping away at them. Little bites at a time.

[Nibbles48]

tingtongteesood

"Uh, hello Mr. red.

Have the Dems ever been banned and dissolved foir electoral fraud ? No, didn't think so.

Have Thaksin's parties ever been banned and dissolved for electoral fraud ? Yes, 3 times.

The defense rests."

How can you defend the dems when their deputy party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot has admitted that their party spends more on vote buying NOW than PTP? He has admitted the 'crime', you have nothing to defend.

It matters very little who did what in the past... This is all about reform. The Dems are happy to go into an election without vote buying, are the reds?

Remove vote buying and the reds will be on the streets protesting in their droves.

If there was an offer for a partial reform before elections, then there is a good chance it would be accepted by the PDRC and the protesters.

Something along the lines of, serious prison time and bannings for vote buying, with immediate effect. Also a promise to accept a neutral reform committee with possibly independent 'non-Thai' observers to make sure that this committee is clearly not bought over.

Also incumbent government must not have any power to make or even register any bill pertaining to any amendments to the constitution during the 2 year reform procedures.

Finally a public referendum to clear the way for the new reforms, followed shortly after by a new general election under new reforms.

Should the incumbent government fail to deliver in the 2 years, they should be removed and banned from participation in any future elections, and that goes for every single party MP.

That is something that the PDRC would go for.

[rubl]

"Participants at govt forum back February 2 poll; say winning party must commit to reform agenda"

What 'reform agenda'?

[tomacht8]

"Caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Phonghtep Thepkanjana expressed disappointment that the PDRC opted out of the forum but said comprehensive reform would take years to complete. However, it would take only two years to set a reform mechanism in place, for a transparent and fair political system and elections."

Holla!

That would mean, if a election would be carried out, on 02.02, that would be unfair and intransparent then!!!!!
He admits, that the current political system is unfair and non-transparent.!!!
Double face just to get back power to get to the taxpayers' money?
Sigmund Freud slip of the tongue?
or honest desire for reform?

Edited December 16, 2013 by tomacht8

[15Peter20]

"Participants at govt forum back February 2 poll; say winning party must commit to reform agenda"

What 'reform agenda'?

I think both sides have detected a desire among Thai people for political reform. The PDRC started the reform bandwagon rolling, and the PTP are jumping on board.

At the moment, PTP are probably paying lip service to a set of reforms which would be introduced subject to established parliamentary procedures and may or may not improve the political landscape. On the other hand, the PDRC is being very serious about reforms that will be determined by a selected group of individuals who will have absolute power over the reform process for at least a year. Take your pick.

[diehard60]

All of you out there beating this down as nothing new and no good, should stop and try to remember in your old age - and I know it is hard for some of you to remember that far back - that not too long ago about three years that this is better then back then. At least they are talking and not shooting. But that is the PDRC and the Dems that did that.

And besides what country has a real HONEST election system????????

[robblok]

"Participants at govt forum back February 2 poll; say winning party must commit to reform agenda"

What 'reform agenda'?

That is the whole point.. i doubt there will be a reform agenda.

- Just make some tougher laws on vote buying

- tougher and really independent anti corruption agency maybe with a bonus for employees once they confiscate corruption money and get a court conviction

- removing the statue of limitation for corruption

- removing protection of corrupt government officials so they can be prosecuted always.

- get new checks and and balances and make it harder to remove them

Problem is that most bad politicians wont like these proposals and will fight them as hard as they can especially if they are the ones in power. Guess who those are, those who are not in power will not fight them so hard (maybe if they ever get in power)

But this is what it should be and even the most staunch red supporter knows this and i doubt many would really go against this.

Thing is YL and consortium will not allow change to happen as they stand to loose to much, its their reason to be in politics same applies for more then a few Democrats they are not all saints.

[whybother]

All of you out there beating this down as nothing new and no good, should stop and try to remember in your old age - and I know it is hard for some of you to remember that far back - that not too long ago about three years that this is better then back then. At least they are talking and not shooting. But that is the PDRC and the Dems that did that.

And besides what country has a real HONEST election system????????

Yes, it's good that the protesters are talking and not shooting, isn't it.

[PREM-R]

tingtongteesood

"Uh, hello Mr. red.

Have the Dems ever been banned and dissolved foir electoral fraud ? No, didn't think so.

Have Thaksin's parties ever been banned and dissolved for electoral fraud ? Yes, 3 times.

The defense rests."

How can you defend the dems when their deputy party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot has admitted that their party spends more on vote buying NOW than PTP? He has admitted the 'crime', you have nothing to defend.

It matters very little who did what in the past... This is all about reform. The Dems are happy to go into an election without vote buying, are the reds?

Deputy Democrat party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot in an interview that was broadcast on May 31, 2013 on John Winyu’s show (****Thai language removed****) stated:

“Recently, if we speak directly, they [Puea Thai] use little money. I am not saying we [the Democrats] use more money than them [Puea Thai]. [host interprets with statement "they are using less money"]. It has become inverted [host interprets and says "They don't need to use so much money?"] I say if it is like that then don’t say we lost because of money”. “For the last election, it may be because we actually used more than them. Therefore, don’t talk about this issue anymore."

It would seem that your information does not equate to what the deputy leader of the dems said earlier this year, are you just making it up as you go along?