Get a refused entry at the border Schengen, because of no had valid visa, it's saved on database ?

[Danielsiam]

I would like to know, a Thai people trying already to go inside the Schengen border of Greece, from Turkey, get rejected at the Greece border, & get a form, REFUSAL OF BORDER ENTRY, with her all names put in paper, etc. with the reason as " No valid visa ", yes, this woman was silly & try to pass into Schengen without visa.

I would like to know, if any deny entry because had a no valid visa, it will saved on database or SIS, and the next time she will try ask a visa ? if the Embassy will knows about it ?

Thanks

[7by7]

Almost certainly on the Greek database.

Other Schengen states? Possibly.

If she is asked in any future visa application to any country whether she has ever been refused entry to any country she should, of course, tell the truth.

[Bpuumike]

It's very simple, she should get a Schengen visa in Thailand before travelling.

[7by7]

Of course, but I think the OP is asking whether or not her past foolish actions will make getting one difficult.

[fvw53]

Of course, but I think the OP is asking whether or not her past foolish actions will make getting one difficult.

Be assured that the member states of the Schengen Agreement exchange all information.

However she only tried to enter Greece and was not caught inside the Schengen area, so she did not commit any offense.

She will find out if there are consequences as soon as she applies for a Schengen visa...which has to be done in the Embassy of the first Schengen country which she plans to visit.

[Jay Sata]

The truth is all the EU countries don't sing from from the same songsheet.

[fvw53]

The truth is all the EU countries don't sing from from the same songsheet.

That is true ...not all 28 EU member states are members of the Schengen Agreement.. (also not all EU members have adopted the Euro)

The Schengen agreeement has been ratified by 27 states including 4 non EU states ( Iceland, Norway, Lichtenstein and Switzerland)

I can assure you that the 27 states of the Schengen area singing from the same song sheet and that directors of the consular departments in the 27 Foreign Ministries meet regularly for consultations.

Some good information can be found at following websites :

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/getting-a-visa/article/what-does-my-sticker-visa-mean

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/EinreiseUndAufenthalt/Schengen_node.html

[whybother]

I don't see what the issue would be. She was refused entry because she didn't have a visa. That's stupidity on her part, not criminal.

[7by7]

The refusal itself shouldn't be a problem.

Not declaring it if asked would be.

[alyx]

Hey

To make things quite simple

1) the applicant was denied entry at the Greek border because there was no visa ( at least that is what I guess from the OP): this is not considered as a fraud but, of course could be used to deny a future application with that country if the information was passed onto the different representations of that very state which is definitely not sure: what is quite certain, is that it is on record at the Greek borders, and, although the applicant could present, in a near -or not- future, a valid visa obtained from the Greek consular section in Thailand, the officer in charge might deny entry on that ground.

2) is the information passed onto other representations? The answer is NO ( at least until further notification )

The only way for another Schengen country to be aware of such an event would be to spot the refusal on the passport

3) in any case, until further notification, a visa application (successful or not) is kept on record / paper and computer for two years, time after which the files are deleted ( maybe not every representation )

[BIGJIMMY]

Was the Thai person married to a person from a Schengen state and with them at the time do we know?

[alyx]

Interesting question, but irrelevant, I'm afraid, as, unless the spouse is a resident of one of the Schengen Nations, they have to hold a visa (a 90 day tourist visa or a 90 day spouse visa at the least) whether accompanied or not )

And yes I remover reading that in some cases a spouse had been allowed to cross the border but sincerely, it's hearsay and I have never met anyone with this profile

[7by7]

Sorry, alyx, but you are wrong.

It is, of course, better to obtain the relevant visas in advance; but if travelling with or to join one's EEA national family member, regardless of whether that EEA national is a citizen of a Schengen state or not and of where they live, it is not legally necessary.

Documents you need; non EEA family members

Arriving at the border without an entry visa

It is always best for your non-EU family members to be well informed in advance and have all the necessary documents before starting their journey.

However, if they arrive at the border without an entry visa, the border authorities should give them the opportunity to prove by other means that they are your family members. If they manage to prove it, they should be issued with an entry visa on the spot.

[7by7]

2) is the information passed onto other representations? The answer is NO ( at least until further notification )

The only way for another Schengen country to be aware of such an event would be to spot the refusal on the passport

Sorry, no.

Visa Information system

The Visa Information System (VIS) allows Schengen States to exchange visa data. It consists of a central IT system and of a communication infrastructure that links this central system to national systems. VIS connects consulates in non-EU countries and all external border crossing points of Schengen states. It processes data and decisions relating to applications for short-stay visas to visit, or to transit through, the Schengen Area. The system can perform biometric matching, primarily of fingerprints, for identification and verification purposes.

(My emphasis)

So it is possible that any Schengen state will be able to see that she was refused entry to Greece.

But, as already said, being refused entry simply for not having the correct visa should not be a problem in any future application; provided no attempt is made to hide it!

3) in any case, until further notification, a visa application (successful or not) is kept on record / paper and computer for two years, time after which the files are deleted ( maybe not every representation )

Don't know about Greece or other Schengen states, but I understand the UK keeps such records for 10 years.

[alyx]

This is why I emphasised the " until further notice"

The VIS is aimed at the visa applicants: the OP was not, therefore nothing else's was done apart from informing the OP about the refusal and it's reasons, as well as, certainly computer in her details at the border

Furthermore, it is only this year that some presentations in Thailand started introducing the system. Only the new applicants are going through the process only, started to be used

Well UK is not Schengen and files are kept for a duration of two years ( of course I am not talking about the "undesirable" ) for the simple reason that files take up too much space ( yes they occupy quite a volume) and all the details of the dossier are not recorded ( only the status and the possible reason for the refusal)

[bobrussell]

The truth is all the EU countries don't sing from from the same songsheet.

That is true ...not all 28 EU member states are members of the Schengen Agreement.. (also not all EU members have adopted the Euro)

The Schengen agreeement has been ratified by 27 states including 4 non EU states ( Iceland, Norway, Lichtenstein and Switzerland)

I can assure you that the 27 states of the Schengen area singing from the same song sheet and that directors of the consular departments in the 27 Foreign Ministries meet regularly for consultations.

Some good information can be found at following websites :

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/getting-a-visa/article/what-does-my-sticker-visa-mean

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/EinreiseUndAufenthalt/Schengen_node.html

It may be correct that all theoretically sing from the same hymn sheet. The reality seems to be that at embassy level staff are not equally well trained nor interpret the rules in the same way!

One set of rules being interpreted a number of ways by fairly low level staff!

[7by7]

This is why I emphasised the " until further notice"

With respect, the phrase "until further notice" means that this is the current situation until it changes.

The situation is not currently as you described but as the EU commission website says.

It may seem a minor point, but I believe that in a forum such as this, which offers immigration and visa advice, it is vital that the information given is as up to date as possible.

I take your point that the UK is not in Schengen and so the UK's practices are not the same as the Schengen states'.

However, reading further down the VIS page linked to above shows that they are kept for at least 5 years.

[alyx]

Agreed about the VIS , which is not, unless I am mistaken, the case of the OP

[7by7]

As the quote in my earlier post shows, the VIS does collect and record information from entry points to the Schengen area; therefore it is possible that the lady in the OP did have her attempt to enter without a visa and her refusal of entry recorded.

But even if it were, as has been said this should not be a problem in any future visa application; unless she attempts to hide it.

[BIGJIMMY]

Interesting question, but irrelevant, I'm afraid, as, unless the spouse is a resident of one of the Schengen Nations, they have to hold a visa (a 90 day tourist visa or a 90 day spouse visa at the least) whether accompanied or not )

And yes I remover reading that in some cases a spouse had been allowed to cross the border but sincerely, it's hearsay and I have never met anyone with this profile

Thats the reason I asked as a friend of mine in the UK - married and his wife only on a 6 month family visit visa went to Holland via the ferry to France from Dover went through without any problems, they took the wedding certificate - both original and translated and she was admitted without issue.

It does happen.

Jimmy