wayned Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Question: Isn't Safe-T-Cut a brand name the same as "Square D"? Don't Safe-T-Cut make standard circuit breakers with the name printed on them and they are not RCBOs? Just because the breaker has Safe-T- Cut printed on it doesn't mean it is an RCBO. IMHO use of the name "Safe-T-Cut" in place of RCBO or GFI(American) is actually misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Isn't Safe-T-Cut a brand name the same as "Square D"? Don't Safe-T-Cut make standard circuit breakers with the name printed on them and they are not RCBOs? Just because the breaker has Safe-T- Cut printed on it doesn't mean it is an RCBO. IMHO use of the name "Safe-T-Cut" in place of RCBO or GFI(American) is actually misleading. Yes and yes. Safe-T-Cut actually appear to be the only supplier of dedicated front-end RCBOs in Thailand. The name Safe-T-Cut has become synonymous in Thailand with front-end RCBO units, like hoover in the UK invariably means 'vacuum cleaner' even though Hoover themselves make many types of domestic appliance. Ask a Thai domestic electrician to install a Safe-T-Cut and he will likely understand what you want, ask him to install an RCBO and you will likely get a blank look. Not an ideal situation but when needs must.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The only reason that I brought it up is that there are many who read this forum and don't really know much about electrics. If they open their CU and see a bank of breakers with "Safe-T-cut" printed on them it does not mean that they are RCBOs, they could just be standard breakers and they really don't have the protection that they should have. As far as PEA and inspections, where I live, it's a joke. When I built my house, before construction started, they came an installed a 15/45 meter on the last pole on my road and from that point on it was "up to me"! I set two more poles installed a temp CU during construction and connected everything myself after the house was finished. There were never any inspections and the only time I've seen anybody from PEA during the past 15 years was the numerous times that the sugar cane trucks have broken the line that crosses the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurnell Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Where do we find a farang electrician? I'd like to install a Safe-T-Cut as we just had some exterior lights installed that keep burning out + a water feature with pumps, which make me a little nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Telling us where you live would be a nice start! You don't need a Farang electrician, just a Thai sparky that knows what he is doing or is that an oxymoron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Wayned, you do indeed have a very good point, I think we should start referring to "Safe-T-Cut RCBO". Waddaya reckon Forky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Indeed! Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I like RCBO. Easier to type on my smartphone... But isn't the front end safe t cut actually an RCD? Or do some safe t cuts come with the over current protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Talking about RCD and RCBO. I checked RS Online as per recommended above. I couldn't find any dedicated RCD or RCCD similar to safe t cut has, but several rail mounted ones. A 63A 30mA rail mounted RCD is half the price if a safety cut. What is safe t cut offering extra? Also looked into individual RCBO's, but there is a choice of hundreds, so will have read up on the choices there. Do only square D brand fit my square D panel? Or others as well? And what type of protection do I need (type A, B or C)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 OK, the front end units from Safe-T-Cut are RCBOs earth leakage and overload. You can go to HomePro and get an ABB RCD (overload is provided by your existing incoming MCB) and a little plastic DIN rail box for it for much less than a Safe-T-Cut, an easy install on a TT system. Like this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693636-are-there-compulsory-rules-for-grounding-electrical-devices/?p=7246403 I think Haco do plug-in devices that fit in the Square-D boards, but RCD / RCBO are dashed expensive I would be replacing that 100A incomer with a 63A too as you're only on a 15/45 meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 OK, the front end units from Safe-T-Cut are RCBOs earth leakage and overload. You can go to HomePro and get an ABB RCD (overload is provided by your existing incoming MCB) and a little plastic DIN rail box for it for much less than a Safe-T-Cut, an easy install on a TT system. Like this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693636-are-there-compulsory-rules-for-grounding-electrical-devices/?p=7246403 I think Haco do plug-in devices that fit in the Square-D boards, but RCD / RCBO are dashed expensive I would be replacing that 100A incomer with a 63A too as you're only on a 15/45 meter. Ok thanks! Last question. If I can use a front end RCD together with a standard existing MCB (although changed to lighter), why do I still need the MCB if I install a front end RCBO? Isn't an RCBO basically an RCD and MCB in one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ok thanks! Last question. If I can use a front end RCD together with a standard existing MCB (although changed to lighter), why do I still need the MCB if I install a front end RCBO? Isn't an RCBO basically an RCD and MCB in one? You are correct that if you install a Safe-T-Cut RCBO you don't NEED the existing incoming MCB, but replacing it isn't worth the hassle. If you go the cheap route and use an RCD you DO need to retain the incoming MCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ok. Local sparky just made a housecall. Nice funny guy. He had heard of RCBO's but never installed one. When I explained the need he just giggled and explained no need on Samui. Now my gf thinks it is a waist of money, as we never had a problem before. I convinced her its like a helmet for a motorbike. You don't need it until something goes wrong. Anyway he noticed that the house has no cut out switch. So meter is directly connected to MCB. Will have that installed as well. Sparky thought he could do that first without PEA cutting electric to the house, but will ask PEA to cut it anyway. Sparky is husband of girfriend's friend, so having this guy die on this will spoil the next get together somewhat... Anyway now looking for a square D 63A RCBO to replace current 100A MCB on the board. Online I can so far only find RCCD of 63A. Thanks again for all the input guys! I will keep you updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I just found this online; http://www.ebigthailand.com/detail.php?id=474&goto=/search.php Should fit as replacement of my MCB right? Actually pretty cheap there! Other stuff also much cheaper than at HomePro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I just found this online; http://www.ebigthailand.com/detail.php?id=474&goto=/search.php Should fit as replacement of my MCB right? Actually pretty cheap there! Other stuff also much cheaper than at HomePro. Hmmm. They also sell 63A safe t cut for a mere THB 2600. Now I am tempted to just install that in stead of changing MCB inside box. It's a rental house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Your meter should be connected directly to the MCB in your present installation, there is no need for an in line cutoff/knife switch! What is the guy suggesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Whilst wayne is correct there is no reason not to have a master switch that will isolate the incoming supply, makes it easier to work on your installation safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Your meter should be connected directly to the MCB in your present installation, there is no need for an in line cutoff/knife switch! What is the guy suggesting? Oh. Ok. But then how can one safely replace an MCB? Rubber sandals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The thais take the tails out of the meter to isolate. Not recommended. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Your meter should be connected directly to the MCB in your present installation, there is no need for an in line cutoff/knife switch! What is the guy suggesting? Oh. Ok. But then how can one safely replace an MCB? Rubber sandals? It's only the main MCB that needs the rubber sandals, the others you can turn off the incomer and be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Whilst wayne is correct there is no reason not to have a master switch that will isolate the incoming supply, makes it easier to work on your installation safely. I'll wait and see what sparky quotes to put in a master switch. But now knowing that a safe t cut is same price as RCBO to replace MCB, I will install safe t cut. Can I change setting on that, so I put it on 30mA now, but later to 100mA if I want to add individual RCBO's to some groups at 30mA? And do I have to replace my current too heavy 100A MCB with 63A if I put safe t cut in front, or can I just leave it. That would be the easiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Safe-T-Cut units are adjustable, not sure if you can get them that go to 100mA mind need to check with them. Since it's an RCBO no need to replace that 100A incomer if you install a 63A Safe-T-Cut. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 No need to change if you put 63A in front of the 100A. Strictly not correct, but will be ok. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ordering safe t cut and some new sockets now via Ebig Thailand. Looks to be very cheap, so I will update when (or even if) the stuff arrives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 RS do 100 mA RCBO with time adjustments. You could set up something portable where you go to property to property, with a main 100mA RCD on a din rail with a couple of RCBO 30mA feeding your critical circuits Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 TBH you are fine with 30mA front end in rentals Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 TBH you are fine with 30mA front end in rentalsSent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Ok. Thanks for the continued advice! All safe t cuts I can see online have range max 30mA. The one for sale at Ebig is a CS special version (I guess similar to OEM) and can't find any specs of it anywhere online. But hey at only THB 2600, I can take a gamble and see what's in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The thais take the tails out of the meter to isolate. Not recommended. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app I'm half Welsh and half Swedish and an American citizen but there must have been a Thai in the woodshed as that's how I do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Well quite simply there is no other means (swiches) available to isolate. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 My Safe-T-Cut arrived today, along with a whole bunch of grounded outlets. I promised Crossy the manual. So her you go! Just one sheet with very tiny installation diagram. All in Thai though. What I don't get is that it connects the N and E. Should I omit that connection. But then the RCBO itself is not grounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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