Thaksin To Revitalise War On Drugs

[jdinasia]

nah .... won't happen again ... it was a Thaksin thing.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin said that he will renew efforts to eradicate drugs and called an urgent meeting with the Office of the Narcotics Control Board (ONCB).

Ignoring questions about whether he has returned to work, Thaksin told the group that he will personally take charge of the anti-drugs campaign.

...he went on to elaborate that it was unfair his death squads have all the fun and wanted to get in on some of the broad daylight shootings himself for the sheer fun of it all.

Acting PM Chitchai Wannasathit acknowledged government awareness of the increasing drug menace and said further meetings with related agencies will be scheduled to determine the scale of the problem. “There have been ongoing political problems for the past three to four months that played a factor in the return of drug problems,” he said.

...he went on to elaborate that the entire political quagmire now embroiling Thailand is directly due to three Klong Toey slum residents smoking yaba...

Chitchai dismissed suggestions that the caretaker government was trying to raise the drugs issue ahead of the upcoming election to gain political mileage.

uhmm... right... if you say so, Chitchai...

When Thaksin launched the controversial ‘war on drugs’ in 2003, he said its objective was the complete eradication of drugs within three months.

...with apologies for my earlier reference to this as occuring in 2004... it IS a bit confusing keeping track of timelines with all the promises he makes... I believe the 2004 promise was made during Drug War III or was it Drug War II?... anyway, I see he hasn't made any promises for Drug War V... yet, anyway...

- TD

[tettyan]

nah .... won't happen again ... it was a Thaksin thing.

The problem with Thai politics is that everyone thinks that the problem is about PEOPLE. Such as, "if we only had good people... then things will be good" of "things will be better w/o Thaksin in the picture". This is absolutely the wrong way to look at Thai politics. Unless the nature of the Thai political establishment and the underlying socio-economic structure changes, the problems will continue. Thaksin will either make a comeback (later if not sooner, even Argentina's Juan Peron managed to stage TWO comebacks after being forced from office the first time) or someone like him, but with a different name, will arise if there are no changes to the system.

I learned this the hard way. I remember cheering when Banharn's coaltion fell in 1996. But there was a part of me that felt "this was way too easy". And I soon had second thoughts, because in place of Banharn, we ended up with that clown Chavalit. Well, happily, we were rid of Chavilit after only one year. But again, I felt something amiss with the way in which he was so easily deposed and replaced with Chuan. Sure enough, three years later, out of nowhere, the idiot who promised to solve BKK's traffic problems in 6 months under Banharn stages a comeback.

People who answer opinion pollsters are afraid to "disapprove" of the war on drugs? Hardly. In the same polls at the time, voters rated Thaksin's economic policies, his stance on corruption, and his other policies far below their approval of the war on drugs. Go back and listen to the PAD rallies.

When the speakers talk about violence in the South or human rights violations during the war on drugs, you hear silence or only tepid clapping from the audience. But when they say "khai chart" or "selling the nation", the reaction is thuderous cheers and applause. Then I recall there was also an article on "ThaiDay" that appeared late February after the first few rallies saying that the PAD speakers would avoid discussing subjects like human rights violations in the south and during the war on drugs because the PAD's supporters were divided on these issues. I'm not defending the war on drugs, I despise as much as anyone here, nor am I trying to downplay Thaksin's responsibility, but like it or not, the war on drugs is the most popular Thaksin policy to date.

Again, I can't emphasize enough that the problems with the war on drugs are structural and has more to do with Thai people's attitudes toward the rule of law rather than Thaksin the man himself. Ironically, the topic of his doctoral dissertation was about "attitudes toward the rule of law"! If I were his professor, I would revoke his degree. Or should I grant him "honorary high distinction" for understanding the subject too well? Understanding that he could get away with extra-judicial killings while the overwhelming majority of the Thai population couldn't give a rat's a$$?

Edited May 21, 2006 by tettyan

[ovenman]

This war on drugs would be a lot more credible if even one big fish had been netted during its existence. The fact that not even a single, token puuyai has been rounded up (or taken out) leads one to conclude that this whole exercise is nothing more than smoke and mirrors, albeit a charade in which thousands have paid with their lives.

[jdinasia]

Tetty .... sorry ... just don't see it that way ... no one else would have had the hubris to order the kind of stuff that happened on the scale that it did on Thaksin's watch.

He still thinks he is bulletproof/teflon coated whatever and that he can get away with most anything ....

I do agree that not muchh will change until something happens like the Courts take on a topic like this ... penalize the bastards that did it ... and make it stick.

[tettyan]

Tetty .... sorry ... just don't see it that way ... no one else would have had the hubris to order the kind of stuff that happened on the scale that it did on Thaksin's watch.

He still thinks he is bulletproof/teflon coated whatever and that he can get away with most anything ....

Thaksin's hubris and arrogance, while something I can't stand at all, is not why he got away with the drug war and extra-judicial killings. He got away with it precisely because the campaign was very popular with the general Thai citizenry (up there with Purachai's "social order" campaign, something I know the posters here just love). The question we need to be asking is not why Thaksin is so evil, but why don't the overwhemling majority of the Thai people (including many who profess to hate Thaksin) see anything wrong with the war on drugs.

[ColPyat]

Tetty .... sorry ... just don't see it that way ... no one else would have had the hubris to order the kind of stuff that happened on the scale that it did on Thaksin's watch.

Black list killings such as these happened already in Thailand, during the communist insurgency in the '70s and 80's. Many members of the deathsquads during the drugwar were veterans of the deathsquads during the communist insurgency - some law inforcement officers (especially Border Police, some members of the right wing militias such as the Krating Daeng and the Look Suah Chao Ban.

It happened before, it can happen again. Thaksin got away with it not because he is evil personified, but because he had the approval of the vast majority of the Thai population. Go and discuss the drugwar - most Thais still today, even Thaksin opponents, will find nothing wrong with the killings.

[meadish_sweetball]

Tetty .... sorry ... just don't see it that way ... no one else would have had the hubris to order the kind of stuff that happened on the scale that it did on Thaksin's watch.

He still thinks he is bulletproof/teflon coated whatever and that he can get away with most anything ....

Thaksin's hubris and arrogance, while something I can't stand at all, is not why he got away with the drug war and extra-judicial killings. He got away with it precisely because the campaign was very popular with the general Thai citizenry (up there with Purachai's "social order" campaign, something I know the posters here just love). The question we need to be asking is not why Thaksin is so evil, but why don't the overwhemling majority of the Thai people (including many who profess to hate Thaksin) see anything wrong with the war on drugs.

May I venture to state what I think is part of the answer:

1. 'As long as it does not harm me or my family directly, I don't care if they shoot a few dealers and junkies.'

In fact, lots of people all over the world have this attitude... but obviously there is a stronger civil society of intellectuals in many Western countries, and the systems more transparent. Thus journalists and NGOs have an easier time monitoring such events than here in Thailand.

2. The greater good of the collective takes precendence over the rights of the individual.

Ultimately, Rousseau, Locke and their ideas never had much influence in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

Couple that with "I am NOT going to speak out against those that have control over the squads that did this just to protect ...."

[ColPyat]

May I venture to state what I think is part of the answer:

1. 'As long as it does not harm me or my family directly, I don't care if they shoot a few dealers and junkies.'

In fact, lots of people all over the world have this attitude... but obviously there is a stronger civil society of intellectuals in many Western countries, and the systems more transparent. Thus journalists and NGOs have an easier time monitoring such events than here in Thailand.

2. The greater good of the collective takes precendence over the rights of the individual.

Ultimately, Rousseau, Locke and their ideas never had much influence in Thailand.

As a sidenote, surprisingly, monitoring the drugwar was not very difficult, once the systhem was understood - murder scenes were open to the public, and police officers involved were amazingly open, knowing that their actions had the support of not only the government, but also the support of almost all sectors of society here. They have been able to do the killings with impunity, and knew that.

They only went through the face motions of hiding and faking evidence and making things appear conforming with the explanation of the government that these killings being drug gang related rivalry killings (which more than a few were, only problem was that those were gangs with law enforcement officers at the top of the food chain). Even the blacklists were publically displayed, and victims were openly deleted from those lists.

Until today none of the drugwar killings have been properly investigated. Even with the new openess forced through the demonstrations, strangely the opposition forces do not appear to speak much about this topic, nor do they appear to attempt forcing the government or the courts to re-open the drugwar cases. As if it did not happen.

What does that say about the intend and convictions of those vocal opposition forces?

[ColPyat]

Couple that with "I am NOT going to speak out against those that have control over the squads that did this just to protect ...."

That theory might be valid if the opposition, that now speaks out against Thaksin in very unusual strong words, would speak out against the drugwar. Fact though is that the drugwar killings are hardly mentioned by the opposition forces. They still to a large part agree with the necessity of the killings.

The drugwar was not just Thaksin's doing - it was with the complicity of the vast majority of the Thai population. And if those issues, the rule of law and the upholding of human rights, are not dealt with, there will be no further democratic development in Thailand.

What the oppositions demands now is nothing but another superficial face motion such as removing Thaksin, but not the necessary fundamental changes in Thai society that allowed someone like Thaksin to come up in the first place. Nothing will change.

And chances are, that a few years down the line, another round of drugwar killings might very possibly happen. Because the drugproblem is just a side-effect of Thai society's inability to introduce fundamental changes, will not go away, and will most definately return with a vengeance.

[jdinasia]

unless of course you consider that the guy that was in charge of the folks that did the dirty work .... is still in charge ... then maybe folks would basically remain silent until it has changed

[ColPyat]

unless of course you consider that the guy that was in charge of the folks that did the dirty work .... is still in charge ... then maybe folks would basically remain silent until it has changed

How the do you explain then that his opponents are outspoken about every other issue, such as corruption or the "sale of the country" ?

Sorry, but there is no logic to this argumentation.

[jdinasia]

ummmm duh .... over one topic they are using guns ... killing people and disappearing people. <pardon ... make that WERE ... but Thaksin says it may be happening again>

If you can't see that speaking out against one thing is different than the other then you just need to quit thinking "it is all about those anti Thaksin bastards" and start just thinking

[English Noodles]

Good on Mr Thaksin for having the guts to grab the problem by the balls, If Tony Blair did the same then the UK would be a better place to live.

[penzman]

First known casualty of latest drug war?

Taiwanese tourist found shot dead on bypass

Police suspect dispute over illegal business

By Jerdsak Saengthongcharoen

A Taiwanese tourist was shot dead outside the Chon Buri Flying Club on the Chon Buri-Pattaya bypass route in Si Racha district early yesterday. The body of Kung Tzu Wei, 43, was found under the pedestrian overpass opposite the bypass in Ban Huay Kum, tambon Bang Phra, around 7.30am. He had two fatal gunshot wounds to his right temple.

He was found with his passport, a mobile phone, 4,000 baht and NT$8,100 in cash.

A flying club guard told police he heard a car pull over near the pedestrian overpass around 3am yesterday. Some people left the car and talked before two gunshots were heard.

Pol Lt-Col Somsak Wamuk of the Si Racha police station said the tourist had called his sister, who was on holiday in Chiang Mai.

The sister, whose name was not given, told police that she and Kung arrived in Thailand together on April 24.

Halfway through the trip, Kung ran out of cash and asked his sister to lend him 100,000 baht before travelling to Pattaya with two Thai friends on May 7.

She said they were northeasterners who had worked in Taiwan.

Kung was heading back to Bangkok to catch a return flight to Taipei yesterday morning, before he was found dead.

Pol Lt-Gen Jongrak Chuthanont, Provincial Police Bureau 2 commissioner, said the Thai friends are the prime suspects and police are searching for them.

The killing was probably motivated by conflict over an illegal business.

Some of the statements given by Kung's relatives did not add up.

His trip may not have been entirely for pleasure as he went to various locations in Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai and the border area.

Bangkok Post

We may never know the real story behind this one, like many other cases that made the headlines but were never followed up.

[Guest endure]

Good on Mr Thaksin for having the guts to grab the problem by the balls, If Tony Blair did the same then the UK would be a better place to live.

I suspect that there'd be uproar if Princess Tony's war on drugs generated 2,500 unexplained murders.

Here's a little story for you:

Before 1971 when the Misuse of Drugs Act criminalised the possession of heroin, there were approximately 12,000 registered heroin addicts in the UK. These people could go to their Doctor and be prescribed heroin of known quality and live a (relatively) normal life. Because H was easily officially available there was very little drug related crime. Under pressure from the US we kicked off the 'War on Drugs' with the MDA 1971 which, amongst other things, proscribed the supply of H by ordinary GPs. Today there are reckoned to be approximately 500,000 heroin addicts in the UK and, because the only method of obtaining H is illegal, a large gang culture around the supply of drugs and a very high proportion of drug related crime. The MDA was the UK's Volstead Act and had the same effect. It created a new criminal culture and made the original problem 100 times worse.

[penzman]

Good on Mr Thaksin for having the guts to grab the problem by the balls, If Tony Blair did the same then the UK would be a better place to live.

I suspect that there'd be uproar if Princess Tony's war on drugs generated 2,500 unexplained murders.

Here's a little story for you:

Before 1971 when the Misuse of Drugs Act criminalised the possession of heroin, there were approximately 12,000 registered heroin addicts in the UK. These people could go to their Doctor and be prescribed heroin of known quality and live a (relatively) normal life. Because H was easily officially available there was very little drug related crime. Under pressure from the US we kicked off the 'War on Drugs' with the MDA 1971 which, amongst other things, proscribed the supply of H by ordinary GPs. Today there are reckoned to be approximately 500,000 heroin addicts in the UK and, because the only method of obtaining H is illegal, a large gang culture around the supply of drugs and a very high proportion of drug related crime. The MDA was the UK's Volstead Act and had the same effect. It created a new criminal culture and made the original problem 100 times worse.

I remember hearing or reading somewhere that pressure from other countries has made the "traditional" drugs scarce in Thailand, hence the mess we're seeing now with ya ba's popularity, apparently very available.

[ColPyat]

I remember hearing or reading somewhere that pressure from other countries has made the "traditional" drugs scarce in Thailand, hence the mess we're seeing now with ya ba's popularity, apparently very available.

Yes, there is a direct relation between Ganja, Opium and Bai Kratom having been made illegal after the US government's pressure, and the rise of the far more dangerous heroin and later on Yaa Maa, which is far easier to smuggle.

When my wife was a child in the 70's up north, every household had a small ganja field, without any problems.

The latest result of those pressures was Cambodia, where in the mid '90's Ganja was made illegal due to mainly American pressure. When i was first in Cambodia Ganja was still openly sold in the markets per kilo.

[English Noodles]

when i was first in Cambodia Ganja was still openly sold in the markets per kilo.

It still is

[Guest endure]

Yes, there is a direct relation between Ganja, Opium and Bai Kratom

What's Bai Kratom?

[ColPyat]

when i was first in Cambodia Ganja was still openly sold in the markets per kilo.

It still is

No, it is not. You can still easily get Ganja, but is has been taken away from the open market stalls, where it was sold like any other vegetable.

[ColPyat]

Yes, there is a direct relation between Ganja, Opium and Bai Kratom

What's Bai Kratom?

Bai Kratom is a leaf of the size of a palm from a bush/tree that has traditionally been used as a stimulant to support people during hard work. Usually Bai Kratom is chewed, and on rare occasions smoked as well.

[sriracha john]

Yes, there is a direct relation between Ganja, Opium and Bai Kratom

What's Bai Kratom?

Scientific name: Mitragyna speciosa

Most use is oral, in the form of teas or swallowed extracts. Doses reported depend on the quality of kratom used (which seems to have considerable variability) and tolerance of the user, but range from 5 or less grams to 20 grams. Effects reported are often compared to opioids, although there are subjective differences. Effects come on within 10 to 20 minutes and continue to build for up to an hour after consumption. The primary effects generally seem to last for 3 to 6 hours, although some users report lingering stimulant or sedative effects for a few hours more.

Leaf

Flower

Grove of trees in Thailand

[Thaising]

when i was first in Cambodia Ganja was still openly sold in the markets per kilo.

It still is

No, it is not. You can still easily get Ganja, but is has been taken away from the open market stalls, where it was sold like any other vegetable.

I was told cambodian used the ganja as cooking ingredient to make it tasty. After the meal, it makes them feel like moonwalking.

[sriracha john]

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[ColPyat]

I was told cambodian used the ganja as cooking ingredient to make it tasty. After the meal, it makes them feel like moonwalking.

The Thais did that as well (still sometimes do).

Ganja was more a herb than an intoxicant here.

Still, in my wife's village, most of the old people do enjoy their bongs, it helps them against many of the usual ailments, from pains to old age depressions.

[Plus]

The problem with Thai politics is that everyone thinks that the problem is about PEOPLE.

Isn't it, ultimately, always? The laws, the culture, it's all about people.

Unless the nature of the Thai political establishment and the underlying socio-economic structure changes, the problems will continue.

This change is very very slow. We need a cleaner governement now, not ten years in the future, so make do with what you have now, including Chamlong as voice of Buddhism (he never was a liberal democrat, btw).

Most people see Thaksin as the reason for the current mess, surely if you dig further you'll see it's far more complex than that. But should you, really? Ultimately you'll HAVE TO stop at PEOPLE, because you can't touch religion or monarchy.

Yes, Thailand, with its overwhelming support for drug war killings, will never be a truly democratic society, but that's the one we have.

There are short term and long term objectives. Getting rid of Thaksin is a short-term goal, reforming the Constitution is a medium term goal. Establishing roots of a society with respect for human life and the rule of law is a long term goal.

Thaksin's turn to drugs is a clever ploy to appeal to broader masses. Will they buy it? Do they really worry about drugs now? I don't know, it seems that economy is the main problem, not drugs.

[ColPyat]

Thaksin's turn to drugs is a clever ploy to appeal to broader masses. Will they buy it? Do they really worry about drugs now? I don't know, it seems that economy is the main problem, not drugs.

Yes, they do worry about drugs very much, especially because the economy is getting into problems.

The huge rise of the drugs happend after the '97 crises, and people are scared that it will go back to the extremes which we have seen before the drugwar. Drugs are on the way back, in Bangkok Yaa Maa is again easily available. Not yet as it was before in the heyday where it was sold in every soi and street corner, but one does not need to look far.

[sriracha john]

as per usual... excellent and valid points, Plus