Meet halfway before country ends in utter failure: Thai politics

[pipkins]

If one knew who Suthep's backers are then name them for they are the ones who are pushing Thailand into being a failed state

Chalerm knows and has written to them.

I think the Government do not want to realease the names as if it is really CP group etc. (only Rumours) it would be very hard to protect all of them from the Red Shirts.

Any action on this level would lead to crys for Coup... again so they are playing a good hand with it this time.

For sure the names will come out and many of the bands and minor celebs there are really asking for trouble. But, they believe that the Army can come in and keep them safe and Uncle Suthep's friends in the Courts are not interested in prosecuting them anyway.

These weasel words are all over the media today from various groups so even this is co-ordinated. What they amount to basically, is Suthep Coup Supportes with cold feet. They openly supported him at the first but are now not so sure (or their family businessess are being hit) so now they bleat for middle ground.

Middle ground I might add, that none from their side was talking about at xmas!!

Sad times, but I think it is the Elites who have the wrong idea here that they are safe from any backlash. This reform and change is heading in directions they do not like already!!!

Edited January 30, 2014 by pipkins

[edwardandtubs]

Seriously investigating corruption ... naming and shaming and throwing the book at ALL of the guilty ones past and present, no matter what political group, and making them serve their time and punishment and barring them from politics for life.

Then an election will probably be successful.

What fantasy world do you live in? All Thai politicians - PTP, Democrat and the others have their snouts in the trough. And who is going to do this investigation? The police? Corrupt. The army? Corrupt. The traditional elite? Corrupt. The protests are just a power grab by people who feel they're not getting a big enough slice of the pie.

Edited January 30, 2014 by edwardandtubs

[SaamBaht]

Some good comments here. It appears the government has been the only group in this impasse to offer any concessions, and as others have already pointed out, is an elected government. Suthep and his elite backers hold all the cards because the military would never touch them, nor will the courts. If the government sends in the police, the Thais system will hold them liable for any damage, death, or carnage.

Suthep realizes it's not how many people you know but who those few people are.

When the corrupt ones are rooted out of the Govt and the criminal in Dubai either returns to serve his time or gets out of politics .... this Govt can be taken seriously.

When you say corrupt ones you mean EVERYBODY, right, including that jackass Suthep.

He is corrupt yes, most probably. Not on the scale as PTP (go speak to business owners who have had dealings with both and see which side always insists on a "cut"), but corrupt yes I expect.

Not just Suthep or PTP, the Governors, the police - it's deep rooted.

The problem here is PTP just have gone a little too far the last couple of years, some of the stories you hear, where they have completely shafted their own red shirt support for their own greed, is sickening. Anyone notice that the Amnesty Bill also covered from 2011 to now? Hmmm, what do they want to hide, I wonder.

You make a good point about the scale of corruption. That infrastructure bill would have been a massive opportunity to steal. Still, as others have said, elections are closer to democracy than obstruction. Scale just doesn't make the case. If one guy murders one person and the other guy murders three, doesn't give the single murderer any more cred.

[tezzainoz]

This is fair comment. The government has of course, already offered to cancel the election as long as the Democrats agree to participate in the re-scheduled one and the PDRC agree not to disrupt it. The government has in fact, offered a number of compromises, none of which have been accepted by the PDRC.

Ha Ha Yingluck said she was ready to postpone the election one day

the next took the offer back says she was only signalling

She is nothing but a pawn in a higher games of chess

[tonyPhuket]

The root of the problem is probably caused by the long evolution of the Thai politic system. If both sides are unable to reach the agreements, then it must be due to that system failure. Honestly, I regret very much that most Thai people will face their most tough decision this Sunday. I know one thing for sure, they want peace, enjoying Thai food, supporting one another but not by means of through corruption. Hope the top-level people will respect that and not overlook people's essential basic living routines. Bless them.

Are you kidding? I think you speak for yourself and not the Thais. Thais are completely comfortable with corruption. As far as they are concerned it is part of Thai culture.

I just happen to see many Thais are injured and some are killed and it is very sad. Is that what you call "comfortable with corruption"?

[bigbamboo]

If one knew who Suthep's backers are then name them for they are the ones who are pushing Thailand into being a failed state

Chalerm knows and has written to them.

I think the Government do not want to realease the names as if it is really CP group etc. (only Rumours) it would be very hard to protect all of them from the Red Shirts.

Any action on this level would lead to crys for Coup... again so they are playing a good hand with it this time.

For sure the names will come out and many of the bands and minor celebs there are really asking for trouble. But, they believe that the Army can come in and keep them safe and Uncle Suthep's friends in the Courts are not interested in prosecuting them anyway.

These weasel words are all over the media today from various groups so even this is co-ordinated. What they amount to basically, is Suthep Coup Supportes with cold feet. They openly supported him at the first but are now not so sure (or their family businessess are being hit) so now they bleat for middle ground.

Middle ground I might add, that none from their side was talking about at xmas!!

Sad times, but I think it is the Elites who have the wrong idea here that they are safe from any backlash. This reform and change is heading in directions they do not like already!!!

Chalerm knows who they are and has written to them..........

And where ARE all the redshirts this time around? Certainly in CM you don't see the kind of support that they used to have. Maybe it's same all over the country now.

You can fool all the redshirts some of the time............

[edwardandtubs]

The root of the problem is probably caused by the long evolution of the Thai politic system. If both sides are unable to reach the agreements, then it must be due to that system failure. Honestly, I regret very much that most Thai people will face their most tough decision this Sunday. I know one thing for sure, they want peace, enjoying Thai food, supporting one another but not by means of through corruption. Hope the top-level people will respect that and not overlook people's essential basic living routines. Bless them.

Are you kidding? I think you speak for yourself and not the Thais. Thais are completely comfortable with corruption. As far as they are concerned it is part of Thai culture.

I just happen to see many Thais are injured and some are killed and it is very sad. Is that what you call "comfortable with corruption"?

What a deep understanding of Thai society you have.

[tonyPhuket]

The root of the problem is probably caused by the long evolution of the Thai politic system. If both sides are unable to reach the agreements, then it must be due to that system failure. Honestly, I regret very much that most Thai people will face their most tough decision this Sunday. I know one thing for sure, they want peace, enjoying Thai food, supporting one another but not by means of through corruption. Hope the top-level people will respect that and not overlook people's essential basic living routines. Bless them.

Are you kidding? I think you speak for yourself and not the Thais. Thais are completely comfortable with corruption. As far as they are concerned it is part of Thai culture.

I just happen to see many Thais are injured and some are killed and it is very sad. Is that what you call "comfortable with corruption"?

What a deep understanding of Thai society you have.

Not Thai society but global society.

[Siripon]

This is fair comment. The government has of course, already offered to cancel the election as long as the Democrats agree to participate in the re-scheduled one and the PDRC agree not to disrupt it. The government has in fact, offered a number of compromises, none of which have been accepted by the PDRC.

Ha Ha Yingluck said she was ready to postpone the election one day

the next took the offer back says she was only signalling

She is nothing but a pawn in a higher games of chess

Remember her words when she won the election in 2011?-' We want to reconcile not take revenge'- then she introduced the amnesty bill to whitewash her brother's crimes. 5555

And now Pheua Thai are advertising on Thai visa for theelection claiming they want to get rid of corruption lol

Talk about bare faced lies.

[gemini81]

The root of the problem is probably caused by the long evolution of the Thai politic system. If both sides are unable to reach the agreements, then it must be due to that system failure. Honestly, I regret very much that most Thai people will face their most tough decision this Sunday. I know one thing for sure, they want peace, enjoying Thai food, supporting one another but not by means of through corruption. Hope the top-level people will respect that and not overlook people's essential basic living routines. Bless them.

Are you kidding? I think you speak for yourself and not the Thais. Thais are completely comfortable with corruption. As far as they are concerned it is part of Thai culture.

I just happen to see many Thais are injured and some are killed and it is very sad. Is that what you call "comfortable with corruption"?

That is your insightful observation, or your 11 year old watching channel 3?

[Throatwobbler]

If one knew who Suthep's backers are then name them for they are the ones who are pushing Thailand into being a failed state

Chalerm knows and has written to them.

I think the Government do not want to realease the names as if it is really CP group etc. (only Rumours) it would be very hard to protect all of them from the Red Shirts.

Any action on this level would lead to crys for Coup... again so they are playing a good hand with it this time.

For sure the names will come out and many of the bands and minor celebs there are really asking for trouble. But, they believe that the Army can come in and keep them safe and Uncle Suthep's friends in the Courts are not interested in prosecuting them anyway.

These weasel words are all over the media today from various groups so even this is co-ordinated. What they amount to basically, is Suthep Coup Supportes with cold feet. They openly supported him at the first but are now not so sure (or their family businessess are being hit) so now they bleat for middle ground.

Middle ground I might add, that none from their side was talking about at xmas!!

Sad times, but I think it is the Elites who have the wrong idea here that they are safe from any backlash. This reform and change is heading in directions they do not like already!!!

Yet another post of yours where you talk about violence and people needing to be protected from the red shirts. You continually hanker for violence in your posts. You truly are a disturbed individual.

[spirit47]

Quote: THOUGH PEOPLE are hoping there is no bloodshed when voters step out to cast their ballots on Sunday, clashes are bound to erupt judging from the rising tensions and the loss of lives in the run-up to the election.

Mostly PTP and company voters have a reason to cast their ballots, the protestors are allready there, so you think what happen?

Irresponsible that this elections not be delayed, they responsible are the Government, the constitiutional court offers the way.

No, the Government and the PTP want bloodshed. For what? The election failed allready, Most of them have to expect banning from politics or criminal judgements. There is nothing to deal with these thugs...

[Roadman]

If the two sides do not agree to meet halfway, then the February 2 elections will only go down in history as one that led the country toward total failure.

And for Thailand to save itself democratically from itself that it is where it politically needs to go. Total failure politically is a far better result that total failure across all sectors where it is currently headed at a rapidly increasing rate under its current political regime. The quicker it fails politically the sooner a platform will be found to rebuild from.

Thailand the laughing stock of Myanmar.

Thailand - at the bottom of the dung heap in South East Asia in education. Says it all that in the 2 1/2 years that this current government has been in power there have been 4, count them four, 4 Thaksin elected trough pig feeders in charge of the education portfolio.

Don't even get started on the financial scams, the lack of law and order, the incompetence, the corruption..jeez the list is never ending. Thailand heading towards failure...jeez...reevaluate...Thailand is already a failure.

[Roadman]

Meet halfway before country ends in utter failure

Too LATE

Even when I posted above I knew someone would have posted that..correct

[Thai at Heart]

If one knew who Suthep's backers are then name them for they are the ones who are pushing Thailand into being a failed state

Chalerm knows and has written to them.

I think the Government do not want to realease the names as if it is really CP group etc. (only Rumours) it would be very hard to protect all of them from the Red Shirts.

Any action on this level would lead to crys for Coup... again so they are playing a good hand with it this time.

For sure the names will come out and many of the bands and minor celebs there are really asking for trouble. But, they believe that the Army can come in and keep them safe and Uncle Suthep's friends in the Courts are not interested in prosecuting them anyway.

These weasel words are all over the media today from various groups so even this is co-ordinated. What they amount to basically, is Suthep Coup Supportes with cold feet. They openly supported him at the first but are now not so sure (or their family businessess are being hit) so now they bleat for middle ground.

Middle ground I might add, that none from their side was talking about at xmas!!

Sad times, but I think it is the Elites who have the wrong idea here that they are safe from any backlash. This reform and change is heading in directions they do not like already!!!

Where are the people discussing which companies are backing Suthep?

[SaamBaht]

Quote: THOUGH PEOPLE are hoping there is no bloodshed when voters step out to cast their ballots on Sunday, clashes are bound to erupt judging from the rising tensions and the loss of lives in the run-up to the election.

Mostly PTP and company voters have a reason to cast their ballots, the protestors are allready there, so you think what happen?

Irresponsible that this elections not be delayed, they responsible are the Government, the constitiutional court offers the way.

No, the Government and the PTP want bloodshed. For what? The election failed allready, Most of them have to expect banning from politics or criminal judgements. There is nothing to deal with these thugs...

The protesters want violence so the military will step in. There is nothing the government wants less. Violence only plays into the hands of the madman Suthep and his anti-democratic forces.

[bkksteviejai]

The root of the problem is probably caused by the long evolution of the Thai politic system. If both sides are unable to reach the agreements, then it must be due to that system failure. Honestly, I regret very much that most Thai people will face their most tough decision this Sunday. I know one thing for sure, they want peace, enjoying Thai food, supporting one another but not by means of through corruption. Hope the top-level people will respect that and not overlook people's essential basic living routines. Bless them.

Are you kidding? I think you speak for yourself and not the Thais. Thais are completely comfortable with corruption. As far as they are concerned it is part of Thai culture.

Not sure the Thai people I know are "comfortable with corruption"..........more like "resigned to corruption".

[bkksteviejai]

If the two sides do not agree to meet halfway, then the February 2 elections will only go down in history as one that led the country toward total failure.

And for Thailand to save itself democratically from itself that it is where it politically needs to go. Total failure politically is a far better result that total failure across all sectors where it is currently headed at a rapidly increasing rate under its current political regime. The quicker it fails politically the sooner a platform will be found to rebuild from.

Thailand the laughing stock of Myanmar.

Thailand - at the bottom of the dung heap in South East Asia in education. Says it all that in the 2 1/2 years that this current government has been in power there have been 4, count them four, 4 Thaksin elected trough pig feeders in charge of the education portfolio.

Don't even get started on the financial scams, the lack of law and order, the incompetence, the corruption..jeez the list is never ending. Thailand heading towards failure...jeez...reevaluate...Thailand is already a failure.

Ever thought of running for Minister for Tourism Roadman?.

[pipkins]

If one knew who Suthep's backers are then name them for they are the ones who are pushing Thailand into being a failed state

Chalerm knows and has written to them.

I think the Government do not want to realease the names as if it is really CP group etc. (only Rumours) it would be very hard to protect all of them from the Red Shirts.

Any action on this level would lead to crys for Coup... again so they are playing a good hand with it this time.

For sure the names will come out and many of the bands and minor celebs there are really asking for trouble. But, they believe that the Army can come in and keep them safe and Uncle Suthep's friends in the Courts are not interested in prosecuting them anyway.

These weasel words are all over the media today from various groups so even this is co-ordinated. What they amount to basically, is Suthep Coup Supportes with cold feet. They openly supported him at the first but are now not so sure (or their family businessess are being hit) so now they bleat for middle ground.

Middle ground I might add, that none from their side was talking about at xmas!!

Sad times, but I think it is the Elites who have the wrong idea here that they are safe from any backlash. This reform and change is heading in directions they do not like already!!!

Yet another post of yours where you talk about violence and people needing to be protected from the red shirts. You continually hanker for violence in your posts. You truly are a disturbed individual.

And... when the argument is lost... you flame, and try and get posts removed on idiotic grounds.

Only Suthep not talking. Gov reached out again yesterday and he sent them packing. I'm hoping desperatly for no violence as it is a peaceful resolution that will rob Suthep of his Coup.

Good luck with the bleating.

[pipkins]

Quote: THOUGH PEOPLE are hoping there is no bloodshed when voters step out to cast their ballots on Sunday, clashes are bound to erupt judging from the rising tensions and the loss of lives in the run-up to the election.

Mostly PTP and company voters have a reason to cast their ballots, the protestors are allready there, so you think what happen?

Irresponsible that this elections not be delayed, they responsible are the Government, the constitiutional court offers the way.

No, the Government and the PTP want bloodshed. For what? The election failed allready, Most of them have to expect banning from politics or criminal judgements. There is nothing to deal with these thugs...

The protesters want violence so the military will step in. There is nothing the government wants less. Violence only plays into the hands of the madman Suthep and his anti-democratic forces.

You highlighted only half of his stupid post here.

The protesters are already there. They are not. They are not there, they are planning to go there to cause trouble.

As you rightly say, no violence is no coup so it's obvious what we want. Maybe if the Government can get a real mandate again, she will have this constitusion torn up and its upholders jailed for the way they have tried it on in the courts.

It just adds more legitimacy to their fight to change the system and laws.

[Scamper]

Boycotting the vote was the only tool the Democratic party had, and they have used it to maximum effect. When they announced their decision, Pheu Thai didn't take the slightest notice of what turned out to be an action of great import, because they were so smitten by the prospect of snatching up every constituency in the country. Intervening weeks have given more weight to the actual effect of the boycott, as Pheu Thai struggles by every means possible to bring the Democratic party back into the game. The irony is that Pheu Thai really doesn't give a hoot about them, but they need them to achieve a parliamentary quorum. But the decision to boycott was doubtless a very difficult one nonetheless. It was not easy. But it was the right decision. The election has been essentially been on a failure path ever since the boycott came into effect. The question is - will Pheu Thai drop Thaksin ? That is really what it comes down to, because no consensus of reform will ever be reached without that. Pheu Thai has made it clear it will never consider that. But that is the glimmer of hope for the basis of a compromise. If Pheu Thai can drop Thaksin, and the Democratic party can accept the reality of the electoral map, we have a path forward. If both sides can agree to this, it could be the most unifying development in Thailand's political history in decades.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Scamper

[Mudcrab]

Boycotting the vote was the only tool the Democratic party had, and they have used it to maximum effect. When they announced their decision, Pheu Thai didn't take the slightest notice of what turned out to be an action of great import, because they were so smitten by the prospect of snatching up every constituency in the country. Intervening weeks have given more weight to the actual effect of the boycott, as Pheu Thai struggles by every means possible to bring the Democratic party back into the game. The irony is that Pheu Thai really doesn't give a hoot about them, but they need them to achieve a parliamentary quorum. But the decision to boycott was doubtless a very difficult one nonetheless. It was not easy. But it was the right decision. The election has been essentially been on a failure path ever since the boycott came into effect. The question is - will Pheu Thai drop Thaksin ? That is really what it comes down to, because no consensus of reform will ever be reached without that. Pheu Thai has made it clear it will never consider that. But that is the glimmer of hope for the basis of a compromise. If Pheu Thai can drop Thaksin, and the Democratic party can accept the reality of the electoral map, we have a path forward. If both sides can agree to this, it could be the most unifying development in Thailand's political history in decades.

Wasn't that one of the first, and non negotiable, claims that Suthep made? To rid Thailand of the Shinawatra clan? If that happened then there may be a chance of negotiation to an acceptable outcome.

[sawadee1947]

fair enough. But this would implement that both parties would lose their face.......must be a terrible feeling, isn't it????

[SaamBaht]

Quote: THOUGH PEOPLE are hoping there is no bloodshed when voters step out to cast their ballots on Sunday, clashes are bound to erupt judging from the rising tensions and the loss of lives in the run-up to the election.

Mostly PTP and company voters have a reason to cast their ballots, the protestors are allready there, so you think what happen?

Irresponsible that this elections not be delayed, they responsible are the Government, the constitiutional court offers the way.

No, the Government and the PTP want bloodshed. For what? The election failed allready, Most of them have to expect banning from politics or criminal judgements. There is nothing to deal with these thugs...

The protesters want violence so the military will step in. There is nothing the government wants less. Violence only plays into the hands of the madman Suthep and his anti-democratic forces.

You highlighted only half of his stupid post here.

The protesters are already there. They are not. They are not there, they are planning to go there to cause trouble.

As you rightly say, no violence is no coup so it's obvious what we want. Maybe if the Government can get a real mandate again, she will have this constitusion torn up and its upholders jailed for the way they have tried it on in the courts.

It just adds more legitimacy to their fight to change the system and laws.

Suthep is doing what the eighteen coup makers did before him. He's trying to keep the old guard status quo. He's not interested in reform. He's interested in ousting a rightly describe corrupt family. All very well and good, but like after all the other coups before him, nothing will change. Nothing did the last eighteen times so why would things change now? Oh, because Thaksin is gone??? What about all the other corrupt individuals, which is one hundred percent of the rest?

No, Thailand should live with it's bad democratic choices until it can choose another way. Eventually the electorate would see the light. It might take some years, but it didn't take the farmers long. The farmers are a huge block of voters that just might change their vote. Let Thailand vote and stick with who they choose. Then one day they might learn to make the right choice.

[Hugh Geen]

Will somebody explain this to me please? "....will the government continue using elections as a rubber stamp to endorse their return to power?"

[Old Man River]

I hate all this mealy mouthed 'meet half way', 'one side is as bad as the other' talk. There's no half way on democracy, in the same way that you can't be half pregnant. You either have an election or you don't. You either respect the will of the majority or you don't.

It's already clear what will happen after the election. The tiny but wealthy anti democratic minority will use their corrupt control of the courts and the election commission to try to invalidate the election. They don't respect the will of the majority and will leave Thailand without a government before they accept democracy. When that happens, the occupation of Bangkok that follows will show up Sutheps efforts for the pathetic little sideshow that they were.

Democracy isn't just elections. If it was, everyone would be praising Zimbabwe.

True. Yet elections are always what democracy in its normative form, i.e. idealized liberal democracy, is built on. You can't have a democracy that doesn't have some form of elections. Universal enfranchisement is generally taken to be the first step, the point of departure, for a transition to a democratic form of government. You can, though, in theory at least, have a liberal form of government that isn't democratic. Because democracy doesn't necessarily = liberalism. Sadly people often vote for autocratic leaders and for laws that affect minority rights.

Yet taking away the majority's right to vote obviously doesn't necessarily protect minority rights. Look at Egypt. Morsi was authoritarian and led an elected government of religious reactionaries. Did removing him equate to greater tolerance and respect for human rights? Actually, the opposite. The new government just ended up oppressing a larger group of people than the old government had, and the level of brutality increased significantly too.

Actually, I think Sunai made a similar comment, but added that nobody's talking. Now, with the Police nowhere to be found while protestors are being killed, and the Army backing up the disappearing police, we get articles like this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/10606562/Thai-red-shirts-leader-says-Its-time-to-get-rid-of-the-elite.html

If the elite are so rich, are we now going to see private protection police forces? Is this what YL wants?

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