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PM urged to set up royal panel for reforms


Lite Beer

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Reforming the mostly post 2006 coup, military hand picked Constitutional Court and the EC should be first on the list... two of the most rotten, bias groups, they are meant to serve the law and the people, instead they serve only powerful interests.

Unlike the DSI for example.

The DSI cannot bring about the downfall of governments, so in the grand scheme of things they are fairly insignificant.

In the over all scheme of things they are nothing but tools to bring trumped up charges against the PTP opposition. What have they charged Thaksin and the other backers of the 2010 attempted coup with. Answer nothing.

But they have charged the two people who stopped it with murder. Now they are after the backers of the pro Thailand anti Shinawatra's .

Tools just another corrupt extension of the corrupt PTP party. Now the PTP has them for their political non violent arm and the red shirts for their violent arm with a bunch of crooks and their backers in between.

The DSI operates on the whats good for the goose is not good for the gander. Hence trumped up charges.

Just to let you know I to once stood where you stand. But when they started pouring blood that could have been HIV positive all over things and brought out guns in their supposedly peaceful demonstration I had to swallow my pride and admit that they had nothing to offer Thailand other than hot air. They then became the government and proved my decision to be the correct one. So you see others have been down that humiliating trail you are on. It is possible to admit the truth and walk tall and be able to liook others in the eye.

While we are talking I asked you a question on another thread and yiou were probably to busy to answer it so I will post it once more for you.

  • Posted Yesterday, 17:05

  • fab4, on 08 Feb 2014 - 13:02, said:snapback.png

    And the government sells the stockpiled rice at a price undercutting the international rice prices, and 10 - 1 on, the dems would complain and file a court case for malfeasance or similar............

    simple question

    Would they be right or wrong.

    Yes or No.

Edited by northernjohn
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"However, he did not say how the royal committee's members would be selected."

Well that's sorta the nub of the matter isn't it Mr. Pointy Headed Academic! Thanks for your useless advice...now go back to de-educating your students.

As opposed to flat headed farang who seems content to allow a Shin dictatorship to run the country as the family business,

What's your proposal then?

Exactly.

Red shirt & PTP supporters seem to be happy to accept YL's inane comment that the election will solve everything and everyone is reconciled.

Others with more open minds feel that there is something amiss with Thai politics & governance & widespread changes & improvements are rather urgently required. Of course the devil is in the details and anyone suggesting a Royal Commission, Council or whatever must spell out in great detail how it would work, who should be on it and what the agenda should be.

The first action is surely to agree that change is needed. PTP cannot even accept that. So it is rather hypocritical to criticise any one suggesting a method without spelling out the details.

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Pointless topic that cant be even really be properly discussed because of the restrictions about mentioning the Royals.

IMO this is always the elephant in the room in any serious discussions about solutions and without discussing it there will be no long term improvement or peace, to pretend otherwise is to only ignore the obvious.

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Pointless topic that cant be even really be properly discussed because of the restrictions about mentioning the Royals.

IMO this is always the elephant in the room in any serious discussions about solutions and without discussing it there will be no long term improvement or peace, to pretend otherwise is to only ignore the obvious.

Total crap. Many decent & prominent Thais have suggested various ways that a commission or council could be set up which doesn't require any discussion about the royal family. None have been taken up by PTP.

The lack of acceptance of its urgent need is what's holding it up from progressing.

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Pointless topic that cant be even really be properly discussed because of the restrictions about mentioning the Royals.

IMO this is always the elephant in the room in any serious discussions about solutions and without discussing it there will be no long term improvement or peace, to pretend otherwise is to only ignore the obvious.

Read the posts before you respond. I mentioned the King.

Not sure what you hope to gain with an inane post such as that. The royals have nothing to do with it.

Not sure if this is allowed if not please remove it Moderator.

But I wish people would stop trying to cover up for this bunch of clowns by saying they can't mention the royals. These problems have been brought about by ineptly managed idiotic populace policies designed for one reason and one reason only. To get elected and that is what they have done. The results as we all know have been disastrous. Farmers selling their land and equipment some even suiciding as a direct result of the PTP policy.

Please try to be honest and remember the rice payments were due two months before the dissolution of the house. I have no proof but I believe that is why the house was dissolved because they could not pay them and figured if they dissolved the house they could blame the anti government protestors. Ask your self why would a government spend so much of their time trying to white wash one man. Then when it finally got through to them that the public did not want that they changed their mind over night. Two and a half years of governing wasted for one useless man. What wrong thing has this government one that they said we were wrong. It has always been some one else at fault.

Money where has it gone. They are looking to borrow 2.2 trillion baht. They have the biggest cash flow in years now that they discharged the 1997 debt to the BOT to pay. Yet nothing to show for it and no money to show either other than enough for their paychecks.

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I have a suggestion.

For FAR TOO long the academics and intellectuals and business leaders have written the laws and the constitution and it appears they do a terrible job. Its full of holes they can skip through.

So, this time, lets have a committee of non academic people, non business leaders and let them write it, perhaps it might be better, much better - but of course, if would have no loopholes deliberately put in, so would never have a chance of ever being accepted by the Elite..................

Reform ?? Don't make me laugh.

If any party puts up reform without reform of the Constitution Court and the Military - then you know for sure they are not serious about reform - and you can expect the PDRC to never have these two parties under review in their reform proposals................... guess why ?

All in my opinion of course smile.png

And finally you post something I can partially agree with. So get out there and get your local non-academics and non-business people discussing what kinds of reforms Thailand needs. If they feel they come up with something worthwhile, they are more than welcome to post it on http://www.reformthai.com/home.php Just be careful of hard-core PTP supporters' reactions. This is obviously not the kind of democracy they support.

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There is nothing to gain and more to lose for the government to agree to such a panel. Suthep will require Yingluck to step down anyways as a precursor to formation of such a panel. It seems like everytime suggestions or solutions are made to the government, they require the government to give up political control while there is never anything required of Suthep. He is not held accountable for not keeping his word (repeatedly proven to be tenuous at best) and has no qualms in disregarding the law and constitution. In response to some past proposals the government has simply asked Suthep to stop the protests for consideration and he refuses.

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The intial attempt for forming a reform council, (which the Pm was Chaiperson, seems to have hit a brick wall) This government has no interest, intention, nor plan to have any sensible reform program, as demanded by the general public.

They want to stay in power, cover the tracks of corruption they are leaving with every day they extend their tenure, as insurance against the time they have the gravy train taken away from them. The antics of placing the 'Labor and Foreign Ministers' in charge of what amounts to as intimidation agencies, refusing to cooperate with the Election groups, the anti government groups, the courts, etc would seem to confirm that this is PTP's final attempt at "save their arse".

On the contrary slapout. The present Government had already started a reform program before Abhisit and Suthep hatched their plan for another coup de terre. Everyone that cares about Thailand knows that the institutional Judiciary branches are heavily contaminated with Elite interests, black hearts and even blacker money.

It is also known that the 2007 Constitutional Charter is an apology of a vehicle under which to regulate the behaviour of the servants of government or indeed the government itself.

The Constitution Charter that proceeded it was and remains a respected instrument for the regulation of the governance of a democratic society.

Had the agents of the then opposition been able to Impeach Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra none of today's problems would exist. However the plain fact is that those who wished to dispose of him then had no tangible evidence to present to an impeachment court. That is why they engineered a coup de terre to bring down his government and subsequently and still without tangible evidence defeated Thaksin in court with a dossier full of flim-flam.

The person to lead Thailand away from all of these problems is the Present Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra who is likely the least corrupt of the entire field of contenders and who has the respect of the international community.

Edited by indyuk
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There is nothing to gain and more to lose for the government to agree to such a panel. Suthep will require Yingluck to step down anyways as a precursor to formation of such a panel. It seems like everytime suggestions or solutions are made to the government, they require the government to give up political control while there is never anything required of Suthep. He is not held accountable for not keeping his word (repeatedly proven to be tenuous at best) and has no qualms in disregarding the law and constitution. In response to some past proposals the government has simply asked Suthep to stop the protests for consideration and he refuses.

In your mind things should be required of Suthep or don't bother reforming the government just let them carry on with their raping of the countries treasury and lack of concern for the people in the nation.

You PTP red shirts are getting more and more desperate to hold on to your power. Any more dumb excuses for not doing any thing just letting the nation slide down hill?sad.png

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The intial attempt for forming a reform council, (which the Pm was Chaiperson, seems to have hit a brick wall) This government has no interest, intention, nor plan to have any sensible reform program, as demanded by the general public.

They want to stay in power, cover the tracks of corruption they are leaving with every day they extend their tenure, as insurance against the time they have the gravy train taken away from them. The antics of placing the 'Labor and Foreign Ministers' in charge of what amounts to as intimidation agencies, refusing to cooperate with the Election groups, the anti government groups, the courts, etc would seem to confirm that this is PTP's final attempt at "save their arse".

On the contrary slapout. The present Government had already started a reform program before Abhisit and Suthep hatched their plan for another coup de terre. Everyone that cares about Thailand knows that the institutional Judiciary branches are heavily contaminated with Elite interests, black hearts and even blacker money.

It is also known that the 2007 Constitutional Charter is an apology of a vehicle under which to regulate the behaviour of the servants of government or indeed the government itself.

The Constitution Charter that proceeded it was and remains a respected instrument for the regulation of the governance of a democratic society.

Had the agents of the then opposition been able to Impeach Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra none of today's problems would exist. However the plain fact is that those who wished to dispose of him then had no tangible evidence to present to an impeachment court. That is why they engineered a coup de terre to bring down his government and subsequently and still without tangible evidence defeated Thaksin in court with a dossier full of flim-flam.

The person to lead Thailand away from all of these problems is the Present Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra who is likely the least corrupt of the entire field of contenders and who has the respect of the international community.

Funny all those wondrous things the PTP want to do. Just after two and a half years of filling their pockets they all of a sudden want to reform the government. I am quite sure they do . They want to eliminate all opposition to their corruption.

It is common knowledge that the current government has an air head in the P M office she takes her orders from the higher ups. She can't even cast a valid vote.

Now I ask you what kind of a person would think an air head like that could lead a country into reform for the benefit of the nation? If so why has she not done so in two and a half years?

Word on the street is the PTP is going to take up a rallying cry. Air heads unite. clap2.gif Some thing about free ear medicine sorry didn't quite catch that part.giggle.gif

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Reform will never happen as long as Thaksin still wants to control the politics. It is too lucrative for Thaksin to give up the position.

It seems like he does not care if the farmers have no money and Thai people are killing each other.

He has one thing in his mind. He wants to control the country.

I don't think it will be be resolved quickly and completely as long as Thai people are involved.

The corruption will continue no matter what, but perhaps the new government will not as evil and greedy as the Thaksin clan.

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The intial attempt for forming a reform council, (which the Pm was Chaiperson, seems to have hit a brick wall) This government has no interest, intention, nor plan to have any sensible reform program, as demanded by the general public.

They want to stay in power, cover the tracks of corruption they are leaving with every day they extend their tenure, as insurance against the time they have the gravy train taken away from them. The antics of placing the 'Labor and Foreign Ministers' in charge of what amounts to as intimidation agencies, refusing to cooperate with the Election groups, the anti government groups, the courts, etc would seem to confirm that this is PTP's final attempt at "save their arse".

On the contrary slapout. The present Government had already started a reform program before Abhisit and Suthep hatched their plan for another coup de terre. Everyone that cares about Thailand knows that the institutional Judiciary branches are heavily contaminated with Elite interests, black hearts and even blacker money.

It is also known that the 2007 Constitutional Charter is an apology of a vehicle under which to regulate the behaviour of the servants of government or indeed the government itself.

The Constitution Charter that proceeded it was and remains a respected instrument for the regulation of the governance of a democratic society.

Had the agents of the then opposition been able to Impeach Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra none of today's problems would exist. However the plain fact is that those who wished to dispose of him then had no tangible evidence to present to an impeachment court. That is why they engineered a coup de terre to bring down his government and subsequently and still without tangible evidence defeated Thaksin in court with a dossier full of flim-flam.

The person to lead Thailand away from all of these problems is the Present Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra who is likely the least corrupt of the entire field of contenders and who has the respect of the international community.

So nice that you put your trust in Yingluck. So rich she doesn't need to be corrupt eh? Wasn't that said about someone else to?

Can you give us examples of her wonderful leadership qualities to date please ?

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BlueNoseCodger post # 31

Dear yellows, Thaksin broke your heart SEVEN years ago! Get over it!

Why is it that people like you come up with the hackneyed inane comment above?

I detest corruption no matter where it comes from,

I like a good many others over the years prior to the internet and this particular forum often had letters published in the two leading English language newspapers attacking corrupt practices irrespective of whatever political parties were involved.

The current family whose name is in the frame have indeed surpassed any others in their corrupt self serving practices over their time in office let alone prior to that as well..

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Pointless topic that cant be even really be properly discussed because of the restrictions about mentioning the Royals.

IMO this is always the elephant in the room in any serious discussions about solutions and without discussing it there will be no long term improvement or peace, to pretend otherwise is to only ignore the obvious.

Total crap. Many decent & prominent Thais have suggested various ways that a commission or council could be set up which doesn't require any discussion about the royal family. None have been taken up by PTP.

The lack of acceptance of its urgent need is what's holding it up from progressing.

"decent & prominent Thais" so the other Thai's are not decent or prominent enough? The only way for reform is elections from everyone.

PTP answer to Thailand's people, not the "decent & prominent Thais" subset of those people!

Edited by BlueNoseCodger
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Reform will never happen as long as Thaksin still wants to control the politics. It is too lucrative for Thaksin to give up the position.

It seems like he does not care if the farmers have no money and Thai people are killing each other.

He has one thing in his mind. He wants to control the country.

I don't think it will be be resolved quickly and completely as long as Thai people are involved.

The corruption will continue no matter what, but perhaps the new government will not as evil and greedy as the Thaksin clan.

Dear yellows, Thaksin broke your heart SEVEN years ago! Get over it!

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I have a suggestion.

For FAR TOO long the academics and intellectuals and business leaders have written the laws and the constitution and it appears they do a terrible job. Its full of holes they can skip through.

So, this time, lets have a committee of non academic people, non business leaders and let them write it, perhaps it might be better, much better - but of course, if would have no loopholes deliberately put in, so would never have a chance of ever being accepted by the Elite..................

Reform ?? Don't make me laugh.

If any party puts up reform without reform of the Constitution Court and the Military - then you know for sure they are not serious about reform - and you can expect the PDRC to never have these two parties under review in their reform proposals................... guess why ?

All in my opinion of course smile.png

First of all.....most PTP also bought some academic titles, even Chalerm.

Second what good would it be if not educated people write a constitution? It would worse. You need to find academics and intellectuals which are dedicated to write a good constitution.

And actually what is the point of writing a constitution....copy/paste the best from proofed good constitutions, from Switzerland, some parts from USA, some parts from Austria, etc etc.

And adjust for the Thai needs.

Don't need to start from zero.

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BlueNoseCodger post # 47

"decent & prominent Thais" so the other Thai's are not decent or prominent enough? The only way for reform is elections from everyone.

PTP answer to Thailand's people, not the "decent & prominent Thais" subset of those people!

What is interesting about the so in love with demonocracy democracy loving Shinwatra's at the behest of Thaksin their puppet master are their policies which are akin to those of both Mussolini and Hitler (to name just two examples.) Those policies in attempting to outlaw opposition parties, demonstrations, being declared illegal and the threat of arrest and subsequent imprisonment and deportation of the leaders and prominent supporters of any opposition to the Shinwatra's and their puppet troupe P.T.P. membership

Going by the standards followed by the Shinwatra's and their puppet P.T.P. members one could hardly describe them as decent prominent people more like indecent dishonest people whose idea of reform is to enhance their own self interests politically and financially and to hell with Thailand and its peoples.

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Pointless topic that cant be even really be properly discussed because of the restrictions about mentioning the Royals.

IMO this is always the elephant in the room in any serious discussions about solutions and without discussing it there will be no long term improvement or peace, to pretend otherwise is to only ignore the obvious.

Total crap. Many decent & prominent Thais have suggested various ways that a commission or council could be set up which doesn't require any discussion about the royal family. None have been taken up by PTP.

The lack of acceptance of its urgent need is what's holding it up from progressing.

The issue is of course what is the definition of a decent and prominent Thai ?

Someone not (yet) been caught doing bad things ?

Someone clever enough to play both sides and keep them both happy with gifts to prevent them being caught doing wrong things ?

I have yet to see an reform proposal by genuine Thai people, I mean people who work everyday 9 to 5 for their wages. People who go to local markets to buy their food. People who catch the bus and train to work.

Yes, lots of proposals from people who think they are intelligent, who have played the system to get themselves into positions of power - and these people have been involved in every constitution so far and now they are saying it needs reform (eg they did a bad job last time).

The reform committee should have :

Nobody who is affiliated to any university.

Nobody who is affiliated with any politician or senator.

Nobody who has been convicted of any crime.

No direct relatives of any politician or senator - children and spouses of children and spouses of children's kin all not allowed.

Nobody who is affiliated with any protest in 2006, 2008, 2010, 2013, 2014 - anyone pictures supporting or attending any protest in the past 10 years in any way is banned from the committee.

The reform committee members must declare their and their families personal assets before the meeting and be required to report their assets annually for the next 15 years.

The reform committee member and their children and relatives cannot be involved with any political party for the next 15 years after the meeting ends.

Lots more could be added, but if you start to do this and make the reform committee and real reform committee suddenly all those wanting reform will not longer support real reform............ not in their interest anymore.

in my opinion of course........

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Pointless topic that cant be even really be properly discussed because of the restrictions about mentioning the Royals.

IMO this is always the elephant in the room in any serious discussions about solutions and without discussing it there will be no long term improvement or peace, to pretend otherwise is to only ignore the obvious.

Total crap. Many decent & prominent Thais have suggested various ways that a commission or council could be set up which doesn't require any discussion about the royal family. None have been taken up by PTP.

The lack of acceptance of its urgent need is what's holding it up from progressing.

The issue is of course what is the definition of a decent and prominent Thai ?

Someone not (yet) been caught doing bad things ?

Someone clever enough to play both sides and keep them both happy with gifts to prevent them being caught doing wrong things ?

I have yet to see an reform proposal by genuine Thai people, I mean people who work everyday 9 to 5 for their wages. People who go to local markets to buy their food. People who catch the bus and train to work.

Yes, lots of proposals from people who think they are intelligent, who have played the system to get themselves into positions of power - and these people have been involved in every constitution so far and now they are saying it needs reform (eg they did a bad job last time).

The reform committee should have :

Nobody who is affiliated to any university.

Nobody who is affiliated with any politician or senator.

Nobody who has been convicted of any crime.

No direct relatives of any politician or senator - children and spouses of children and spouses of children's kin all not allowed.

Nobody who is affiliated with any protest in 2006, 2008, 2010, 2013, 2014 - anyone pictures supporting or attending any protest in the past 10 years in any way is banned from the committee.

The reform committee members must declare their and their families personal assets before the meeting and be required to report their assets annually for the next 15 years.

The reform committee member and their children and relatives cannot be involved with any political party for the next 15 years after the meeting ends.

Lots more could be added, but if you start to do this and make the reform committee and real reform committee suddenly all those wanting reform will not longer support real reform............ not in their interest anymore.

in my opinion of course........

Why exclude people? Why not everyone can submit ideas, and everyone can vote on the ideas?

The problem Thailand faces are the endless coups from elite groups who think they know how to run a country better than anyone else, yet can't convince the Thai people of this. Every single coup has claimed 'reform' and every single coup has left a mess.

Edited by BlueNoseCodger
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BlueNoseCodger post # 31

Dear yellows, Thaksin broke your heart SEVEN years ago! Get over it!

Why is it that people like you come up with the hackneyed inane comment above?

I detest corruption no matter where it comes from,

I like a good many others over the years prior to the internet and this particular forum often had letters published in the two leading English language newspapers attacking corrupt practices irrespective of whatever political parties were involved.

The current family whose name is in the frame have indeed surpassed any others in their corrupt self serving practices over their time in office let alone prior to that as well..

Ignore him he is out of touch with the conditions here in Thailand. He thinks an election will solve all the problems. In the last four years we have had two of them and now the unity is wider than ever. Why he thinks an election will solve Thailand's problems is beyond me.

I will agree an election could go along way towards solving some of the problems. Unfortunately for Thailand it is the most corrupt who seem to win. An honest man would never make it against the outlandish promises the Thaksinite's put out. (Give me 6 months and I will make you all rich) Or the current one we will clear up rice payment situation. Oops forgot we dissolved the house two months after the money was due because we couldn't pay it now we have some one else to blame it on.

Thaksin is hurting people today that is the root of all of Thailand's problems today. Of course they will have problems internationally that Thaksin is not involved in. Or is he not involved? I wonder if he had any thing to do with Thailand denying the use of the airport in Pattaya for weather purposes. Went to his good buddy in Cambodia I think.

Also I think he is involved up to his ears in the fall of rice exports in the international community from Number one to third. In the process bankrupting small farmers.

Every day it would seem the split in the political scene seems to get wider. Yet people like him want to keep following the leaders in this downward spiral.

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Total crap. Many decent & prominent Thais have suggested various ways that a commission or council could be set up which doesn't require any discussion about the royal family. None have been taken up by PTP.

The lack of acceptance of its urgent need is what's holding it up from progressing.

"decent & prominent Thais" so the other Thai's are not decent or prominent enough? The only way for reform is elections from everyone.

PTP answer to Thailand's people, not the "decent & prominent Thais" subset of those people!

In your dream world if an election was held tomorrow and Thaksin won. You propose that Thailand would have no more problems it would be a country full of peace and harmony.

Could I vote in this dream world of yours. Explain why Thailand is so divided after two elections.

Why don't other countries have elections and solve all their problems.

In fact why don't you give this joyous news to Somalia. North Korea and Afghanistan. I am quite sure they would all make you a national hero.whistling.gif

Reform will never happen as long as Thaksin still wants to control the politics. It is too lucrative for Thaksin to give up the position.

It seems like he does not care if the farmers have no money and Thai people are killing each other.

He has one thing in his mind. He wants to control the country.

I don't think it will be be resolved quickly and completely as long as Thai people are involved.

The corruption will continue no matter what, but perhaps the new government will not as evil and greedy as the Thaksin clan.

Dear yellows, Thaksin broke your heart SEVEN years ago! Get over it!

Severn years ago. Sounds about rite. I didn't know how long you had been out of touch with Thailand but 7 years fits right in with the rest of your posts.

Wake up a lot has changed in Thailand since you went to sleep 7 years ago. Thaksin is no longer breaking hearts he is emptying wallets that don't belong to him now.wai.gif

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Reform will never happen as long as Thaksin still wants to control the politics. It is too lucrative for Thaksin to give up the position.

It seems like he does not care if the farmers have no money and Thai people are killing each other.

He has one thing in his mind. He wants to control the country.

I don't think it will be be resolved quickly and completely as long as Thai people are involved.

The corruption will continue no matter what, but perhaps the new government will not as evil and greedy as the Thaksin clan.

Dear yellows, Thaksin broke your heart SEVEN years ago! Get over it!

Severn years ago. Sounds about rite. I didn't know how long you had been out of touch with Thailand but 7 years fits right in with the rest of your posts.

Wake up a lot has changed in Thailand since you went to sleep 7 years ago. Thaksin is no longer breaking hearts he is emptying wallets that don't belong to him now.wai.gif

And for 7 years since you kicked him out, all you ever do is read his facebook page and tell us all about him like a love sick schoolgirl. As if we care!

He's gone 7 Years ago, get over it.

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The DSI cannot bring about the downfall of governments, so in the grand scheme of things they are fairly insignificant.

They could start by charging the PM with perjury rather than changing the definition of the crime (temporarily).

They could investigate government corruption when it is either blatant or reported by the opposition or other government critics. For example, why is a fugitive criminal allowed access to cabinet meetings? Why was his passport renewed? Why are government members and high ranking public servants consorting with criminals and allegedly taking orders from them?

They could investigate cases and forward to the courts cases that merit such action, instead of allowing themselves to be used as a government tool to harass the opposition and other critics.

Edited by JRSoul
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