Another Black Day In Burma's History...

[LaoPo]

Everybody is entitled to his own opninion.

I am a great admirer of Mrs. Aung San Kuu Kyi; that admiration however doesn't include you or 'flint', on the contrary.

I suggest you have another look at the title of the topic and what this is all about

And...if you want to discuss your anti-boycott-point of view, why don't you write to Mrs. Kuu Kyi or the Burmacampaign people in London ?

This topic is to support her view and the majority of the Burmese who -democratically- voted for her, remember?

If you disagree, start your own topic.

LaoPo

[thankuverybig]

you have to feel for the lady.maybe she has more power & exposure whilst being under house arrest though.

i think its fair to say that the burmese goverment are a little afraid of tourists in burma ,because they have voice & a goverment behind them to speak up about whats going on there.

where as the locals are just treated like dogs.

ive heard of westerners who have been jailed after entering burma illegally,& ive heard they were treated pretty well,& released shortly after.

[LaoPo]

Aung San Suu Kyi’s 61st Birthday – Global Protests 16 Jun 2006

Excerpt:

"On Monday 19th June Aung San Suu Kyi will spend her 61st birthday in detention. On that day she will have spent a total of 10 years and 238 days (3888 days) in detention. She is isolated, allowed no visitors, her phone line has been cut, and her post is intercepted. She is being denied access to regular medical care."

Continues here:

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/pm/weblog.php?id=P217

LaoPo

[Shaolin Bushido]

Burma, Myanmar, should be put on the UN "human rights commision" with Cuba and Suadi.

Cuba should be taken off.

[LaoPo]

About Tourism

Excerpt:

"""Some people argue that increased tourism in Burma will open the country to liberalizing influences. But most visitors have scant opportunity to discover the realities of everyday life in Burma. Traveling between first-class hotels and tourist sights in air-conditioned comfort, they meet few ordinary Burmese. Even chance encounters are constrained by the people's fear of military intelligence agents, whose pervasive presence is a principal tool of the junta's harsh rule. The army's tight control keeps genuine interaction between Burmese and visitors to a minimum. Tourism profits rarely reach ordinary people. The army itself is a partner in many tourist ventures, and some hotel projects are suspected to be fronts for laundering profits from Burma's burgeoning heroin trade."""

Link:

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/aboutburma/tourism.html

LaoPo

[qualtrough]

LaoPo, Fair enough. However, as I was contemplating creating a new topic about Aung San Su Kyi and the tourism boycott it occured to me that it would not really be related to Thailand, which is what this forum is supposed to be about. Or am I mistaken?

[qualtrough]

LaoPo, you asked me to start my own topic as the thread was about Aung San Suu Kyi and her plight, and then in one of your subsequent posts you continue on about the wisdom of the tourism boycott! Since you brought it up again, let me address one of the issues you raised:

"The army's tight control keeps genuine interaction between Burmese and visitors to a minimum. Tourism profits rarely reach ordinary people. The army itself is a partner in many tourist ventures, and some hotel projects are suspected to be fronts for laundering profits from Burma's burgeoning heroin trade."

Sorry, but in my experience total poppycock. Perhaps true if you are on a first class package tour, but totally untrue if you are travelling on your own. I found no difficulty, none whatsoever, in communicating with ordinary Burmese people--language obstacles excepted of course. Maybe I was just lucky in my five or six visits. Also, how can it be true that profits rarely reach ordinary people? All large hotels require hundreds of employees. Presumably even in Burma these people are paid wages. If the hotels close, they lose their jobs. And for each large government backed hotel venture there are probably hundreds of small hotels and guest houses that are not military owned. Seems to me boycott backers want to throw the baby out with the bathwater! Why don't you narrow your boycott to those ventures that are military backed instead of condeming all businesses, and by extension their employees?

I agree that a new topic might be appropriate, but will not start it until hearing from a moderator about whether or not it is appropriate to this forum.

Edited June 21, 2006 by qualtrough

[LaoPo]

Why don't you narrow your boycott to those ventures that are military backed instead of condeming all businesses, and by extension their employees?

If only someone would really know what's military (regime) backed or not. I suppose only the regime will know.

There is a shocking report* about the regime and the brainwashing of the Burmese, which starts already in the schools, small villages, communities, playing grounds etc.

How does anyone know he/she is talking to somone who's hired by the regime or not? Every single village or community is 'infected' by the regime.

Read and look here (have a look on page 38 and 80-90....)

* http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/reports/USDA.pdf

LaoPo

[Rinrada]

Just got a email from some of our readers in the US who have said how much they appreciate the posting ....plus bit more info about Aung San.......(i didnt know about) over the last few years...

Makes you realise that there are a lot of people out there who................

http://www.uscampaignforburma.org/assk/awards.html

Semi-Complete List of Awards Won by Aung San Suu Kyi

1990 .

Honorary Fellow. St. Hugh's College Oxford, UK

Thorolf Rafto Award for Human Rights -Norway

1991.

Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought -European Parliament

Nobel Peace Prize,Oslo, Norway

Honorary Member, International PEN -Norwegian Center

Humanities Human Rights Award -USA

Honorary Member. International PEN -Canadian Center

1992.

Marisa Bellisario Prize -Italy

Annual Award of the International,Human Rights Law Group -USA

Honorary President, Students' Union London-School of Economics and Political Science -UK

Honorary Member, International PEN -English Centre

Honorary Life Member,-University of London Union-UK

Honorary Professional Fellowship,Law and Society Trust -Sri Lanka

Honorary Doctorate in Political Science,

Thammasat University

Thai

International Simòn Bolívar Prize -UNESCO

Prix Litteraire des Droits de l'Homme -Nouveaux Droits de l'Homme

Honorary Member, World Commission on Culture and Development -UNESCO

1993.

Member, Académie Universelle des Cultures -Paris

Rose Prize -Arbejderbevaegelsens Internationale Forum / International Forum of the Danish Labour Movement, Copenhagen

Premio Mujer Progresista Federacion Mujeres Progresistas / Spanish Federation of Progressive Women, Madrid-Spain.

Victor Jara International Human Rights Award Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law,-Los Angeles,- USA

Member of the Advisory Board, François-Xavier Bagnoud Center for Health and Human Rights, Havard University-USA

Honorary Doctorate of Law, University of Toronto -Canada

The Freedom of the City, Commune of Giugliano-Italy

Bremen Solidarity Prize -City of Bremen, Germany

1994.

Honorary Doctorate of Philosophy and Letters,-Free University of Brussels-Belgium

Honorary Adviser, Forum of Democratic Leaders in the Asia-Pacific Seoul,

Republic of Korea

1995.

The Freedom of the City, Aversa-Italy

Liberal International Prize for Freedom-UK

Honorary Doctorate of Laws, Queen's University-Canada

Jawaharlal Nehru Award for International Understanding -India (for 1993)

Gandhi Award, Simon Fraser University-Canada (October)

Honorary Doctorate of Civil Law, University of Oxford-UK

Freedom Award of the International Rescue Committee-USA (November 21)

1996.

Rajiv Smriti Puraskar (Rajiv Gandhi Memorial Award) —-Art & Culture Foundation of India

NGO (August)

Honorary Companion of the Order of Australia Award-Australia (May)

W. Averell Harriman Democracy Award -National Democratic Institute (August)

Empty Chair Award, Women of the Year Lunch, London-UK

1997.

Honorary Doctorate, Charles University Faculty of Law -Prague (January)

Honorary Doctorate of Laws, American University-Washington, DC. (January)

Distinguished Alumni Award, -Central University / Delhi University-India

Honorary Doctorate, University of Natal-South Africa (April)

Honorary Doctorate, Chapman University-Orange County, CA (May)

Honorary Citizenship of Rome -Italy (May 23)

Honorary Doctorate of Letters, Glasgow University - UK

Honorary Doctorate of Letters, -University of Technology, Sydney -Australia

Pearl S. Buck Woman's Award, Pearl S. Buck Foundation -USA

International Award, St. Angela's Peace and Justice Group, Waterford -Eire

Profiles in Courage Award, Kennedy Society of Denmark-Denmark

1998.

Honorary Doctorate, Cambridge University -UK (June)

Honorary Doctorate of Laws, University of Wales, Cardiff-Wales

Honorary Doctorate of Laws, University of Bristol -UK

Honorary Doctorate of Laws, University of Melbourne -Australia

Honorary Degree, University of Bath -UK (December)

1999

Honorary Degree, Bucknell University -USA (May)

Freedom Award, International Republican Institute-Washington, D.C. (October)

2000

Dublin Freedom Award -Dublin (March)

United States Presidential Medal of Freedom-USA

2003

Free Spirit Award, Freedom Forum-USA......and many more.....

and with her simple philosophy she has called on people around the world to join the struggle for freedom in Burma, saying ...

"Please use your liberty to promote ours"

[LaoPo]

"Rangoon Residents Told to Show Photos"

By The Irrawaddy

June 05, 2006"

Excerpt:

"""Burma’s military government has told residents in some townships in Rangoon to hang their family photos in their homes and to send copies to local authorities for security checks, according to residents in the capital."""

Link:

http://www.irrawaddy.org/aviewer.asp?a=5844&z=154

LaoPo

[qualtrough]

LaoPo, I assume you want to continue the debate.

"How does anyone know he/she is talking to somone who's hired by the regime or not? Every single village or community is 'infected' by the regime."

Presumably those who speak out unfavorably about the government would not fall under the infected class and one could safely assume they are not speaking with someone 'hired' by the regime. How does it matter anyway if you are speaking to someone 'hired' by the regime? Do you really think that tourists are going to visit, speak with these hirelings, and come back with praise for the government? That's a pretty patronizing attitude.

Further to the above, should I assume that the pair of young Burmese men my friend and I hired to drive us around in their car on one trip were Burmese government agents, and that the stories they told us about Burmese government atrocities and cruelty were just some clever ruse? If so, what was the point? Reverse psychology of some sort??

I think you attribute far to much cleverness to the military. I remember a train ride in which we shared a room with two well-dressed Burmese men. During a brief chat they alleged that they were students. Their nice shiny black shoes gave them away, as well as the fact that they were met at the Rangoon station by some uniformed officers.

LaoPo, I have to ask, have you even been to Burma?

[tayto]

Everybody is entitled to his own opninion.

I am a great admirer of Mrs. Aung San Kuu Kyi; that admiration however doesn't include you or 'flint', on the contrary.

I suggest you have another look at the title of the topic and what this is all about

And...if you want to discuss your anti-boycott-point of view, why don't you write to Mrs. Kuu Kyi or the Burmacampaign people in London ?

This topic is to support her view and the majority of the Burmese who -democratically- voted for her, remember?

If you disagree, start your own topic.

LaoPo

Well said LaoPo.

qualtrough, I don't believe you have been to Burma 5 or 6 times and if you have, then you have been a very gullible guest of the junta.

All tourists without exception, are the guests of the junta. Burmeese people and indeed tourists cannot travel everywhere in Burma.

Your ''guides'' were licenced by the junta and could not travel without permission.

If you care anything about Burma and its people then help, by giving donations and support.

to http://www.uscampaignforburma.org/assk/awards.html and organizations like them, not to the junta and businesses that support and pay taxes to them.

Next time , do something useful, stay at home.

[qualtrough]

Tayto, not only have I been to Burma 5 or 6 times but I have also:

• Studied Buddhism under U Nu.
  
• Studied Burmese history under Dr. Than Tun.
  
• Studied the Burmese language for three years at the graduate level (I know only the most rudimentary Burmese and have forgotten much of what I ever learned).
  
• Attained a Ph.D. in Political Science, focus on SEA, specifically Burma and Thailand.
  
• Attended meetings and parties held by the Burmese opposition in the USA.
  
• Met and chatted with members of the Burmese government in exile in the USA, including Prime Minister Sein Win and Finance Minister U Win Ko Met, who was unfortunately and mysteriously murdered not too long after that in Kunming.
  
• Met and socialized with a number of Burmese in exile in the USA.
  

Ad nauseum...(BTW-if you doubt this PM me with a fax number and I will be happy to send you some corroborating evidence in the form of photos, diplomas, etc.)

OK, does that make me an important person? No. But I think that it does establish that I most likely know as much or more than you do about Burma and Burmese politics.

I was no more a guest of the Burmese government than I was a guest of the government of any country I visited. I have never traveled with guides. The drivers owned the car and that is how they made their living. Even if they were licensed by the government, what difference does that make? Once they trusted my friend and I they told us some very unflattering stories about the government. We met their families and took letters out of the country for them as they did not trust postal authorities. Now tell me, how much sense does it make for them to do that if they are pro-government? None. I never said I travelled all over the country so I am not sure why you need to mention that travel is restricted in some areas. I never raised that topic.

I am no fan at all of the military government, but the tourism boycott is not going to make things better for the Burmese--just the opposite. Backpackers and modest travellers can make a difference in ordinary Burmese lives through the effect of their spending and the interchange of ideas and information if/when the people they meet choose to share what they think. If you don't want to go, fine, but do not tell me where I can and cannot go. I encourage anyone thinking about visiting Burma to do so and to see the situation there for themselves.

Here is the way I see it in a nutshell. Does Burma have a horrible government. Yes. Will not visiting the country change things for the better? Absolutely not.

[farangsay]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5102304.stm

Just saw this on the beeb news site , interesting article.

à plus

[ColPyat]

I am no fan at all of the military government, but the tourism boycott is not going to make things better for the Burmese--just the opposite. Backpackers and modest travellers can make a difference in ordinary Burmese lives through the effect of their spending and the interchange of ideas and information if/when the people they meet choose to share what they think. If you don't want to go, fine, but do not tell me where I can and cannot go. I encourage anyone thinking about visiting Burma to do so and to see the situation there for themselves.

Here is the way I see it in a nutshell. Does Burma have a horrible government. Yes. Will not visiting the country change things for the better? Absolutely not.

Nice to read a realistic opinion on Burma in this thread at last.

Nobody in his right mind would support the junta.

Nevertheless, the boycott is indeed detrimental. Reality unfortunately is that the Burmese resistence is completely fractured, and has no hope whatsoever to reach their goals. Presently i see only one faint hope for change in Burma, and this is tourism and economical opening.

The boycott only plays into the hands of the fractions of the junta that would prefer to isolate Burma and return to days even more brutal than we have now.

I am sure that i will get flamed to pieces for the following statement, but there are voices that do not see the lady anymore as angelic as a decade ago. One persistent criticism is that she has been too uncompromising in the question of the future role of the military during the very important negotiations after her first release from house arrest, and has therefore hindered progress in Burma. The Military will simply not give up all power for the foreseeable future, and the best that could have been reached would have been some sort of compromise.

The next question is, if the military should even be completely sidelined. The issue of Burma is extremely complex (and i do not claim to have a deep understanding of it). Nobody knows exactly the decision making process within the highly secretive junta, that itself is split in many fractions. Burma is by all means more comparable to a mediaeval nightmare than to anything resembling modernity. Therefore we should completely forget any modern standards when looking at Burma, as this will not improve the situation. Unfortunately the only thing that helps is pragmatism, and realising that it will take several generalisations before things will have noticably improved. Improvement in Burma happens in tiny steps.

I believe one has to separate the issues of democracy, and the issues of the minorities.

It is rather clear that the ideas of federation are a bit too idealistic at the present moment. The minorities have not given up the ideas of independence, even though the ones who are still in open opposition to the junta play lipsercice to the lady. Any weakening of Rangoon, as a theoretical overthrow of the junta would be, could easily result in a renewed civil war at the borders with the minorities. Even the ones who are presently a peace with the junta could go back to war.

The majority Shan do still have a huge army, the Wa have an army that is considered to be unbeatable. None of those are too friendly with any possible Rangoon government, even though they are at peace with the junta, presently. In Wa state, for example, every Burmese has to apply for permission from the Wa government before entering their territory.

No, i am not a great fan of the Lady.

Edited June 21, 2006 by ColPyat

[jdinasia]

anyone else seeing a pattern here?

[ourmanflint]

I see is a few people thinking for themselves.... and some "old guard" non-thinkers going round in circles..

I guess that's a pattern!

[LaoPo]

I see is a few people thinking for themselves.... and some "old guard" non-thinkers going round in circles..

I guess that's a pattern!

"Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue."

Confucius,

Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC)

LaoPo

[qualtrough]

jdinasia: Would you mind sharing the pattern you detect with the rest of those following this thread?

LaoPo: "Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue." Very subtle ad hominem attack. Usual refuge of those who cannot or will not address the issues at hand.

[elkangorito]

Tayto, not only have I been to Burma 5 or 6 times but I have also:

• Studied Buddhism under U Nu.
  
• Studied Burmese history under Dr. Than Tun.
  
• Studied the Burmese language for three years at the graduate level (I know only the most rudimentary Burmese and have forgotten much of what I ever learned).
  
• Attained a Ph.D. in Political Science, focus on SEA, specifically Burma and Thailand.
  
• Attended meetings and parties held by the Burmese opposition in the USA.
  
• Met and chatted with members of the Burmese government in exile in the USA, including Prime Minister Sein Win and Finance Minister U Win Ko Met, who was unfortunately and mysteriously murdered not too long after that in Kunming.
  
• Met and socialized with a number of Burmese in exile in the USA.
  

Ad nauseum...(BTW-if you doubt this PM me with a fax number and I will be happy to send you some corroborating evidence in the form of photos, diplomas, etc.)

OK, does that make me an important person? No. But I think that it does establish that I most likely know as much or more than you do about Burma and Burmese politics.

I was no more a guest of the Burmese government than I was a guest of the government of any country I visited. I have never traveled with guides. The drivers owned the car and that is how they made their living. Even if they were licensed by the government, what difference does that make? Once they trusted my friend and I they told us some very unflattering stories about the government. We met their families and took letters out of the country for them as they did not trust postal authorities. Now tell me, how much sense does it make for them to do that if they are pro-government? None. I never said I travelled all over the country so I am not sure why you need to mention that travel is restricted in some areas. I never raised that topic.

I am no fan at all of the military government, but the tourism boycott is not going to make things better for the Burmese--just the opposite. Backpackers and modest travellers can make a difference in ordinary Burmese lives through the effect of their spending and the interchange of ideas and information if/when the people they meet choose to share what they think. If you don't want to go, fine, but do not tell me where I can and cannot go. I encourage anyone thinking about visiting Burma to do so and to see the situation there for themselves.

Here is the way I see it in a nutshell. Does Burma have a horrible government. Yes. Will not visiting the country change things for the better? Absolutely not.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

If 'long term gain' is more significant than 'short term band-aids', then it makes sense that the more the world 'experiences' Myanmar FIRST HAND, the more the world will be CORRECTLY informed about it's troubles. What media coverage gets out of Myanmar? Answer: bugger all.

Suppose a flood (tens of thousands) of tourists from all countries entered Myanmar within 1 year...then a significant portion of these tourists will be exposed to certain 'undeniable' realities of Myanmar. They, in turn, will pass on their info to others. This process will definitely help to undermine the Junta.

It's too easy to starve a nation into subservience (like western governments do)...it's more difficult to expose the 'reality' of a 'peoples plight' via direct awareness. Remember the Germans & the Jews in WW2?

Don't punish the Burmese...help them by enlightening the world about their plight. Visit Myanmar & 'get the gossip'...lip service will do them no good.

BTW, I don't think that this topic be restricted to 'supporters' of the topics Heading. This would be limiting the minds of all. I'm sure Myanmar could benefit from some healthy 'discussion'.

[LaoPo]

I'm 'happy' to learn that everyone agrees that Burma is suffering from a dictatorial regime.

The controversial matter of 'tourism to Burma' remains and it's sad to learn that a few individuals think they have the wisdom, knowledge and intelligence to know better and go beyond the strong advises of Mrs. Kuu Kiy (and the controversial 'advise' of the government in exile) as well as the far majority of the democratic Governments in the world, NOT to visit Burma.

Tourism is an industry to make money, simple as that and from every dollar that lands in Burma a certain percentage will end into the hands of the generals, one way or another.

Think of drinking water, cola, beer, using transport (gasoline), eating food (rice), hotels, using trains (tickets)....

It would be naiv to think it would not bring money into the hand of the generals.

But, I'm afraid a few people can't be convinced.

So be it.

LaoPo

[ColPyat]

Tourism is an industry to make money, simple as that and from every dollar that lands in Burma a certain percentage will end into the hands of the generals, one way or another.

And a certain percentage of the money goes to the people as well. A percentage that otherwise would not go to them at all.

It is naiv to think that Aung San Suu Kyi is the only answer for Burma's very complex problems, it is naiv to hero worship her. Her very uncompromising stand has in fact alienated many of the more pragmatic people of the resistance who have realised a long time already that there simply is no solution without compromise with the military.

Activism towards a complete boycott may play to the PC brigade, but it only strenghtens the radical isolationists in the Burmese military. If the Burmese resistence would be a strong and unified block, this might be different. Fact though is that the resistence is fractionalised along political and ethnical lines, and is riddled with spies.

Yes, some people will not be convinced by simplistic activism, because some people have been in Burma many times, legal and illegal, looked at the complex problem from many angles, and because of that have understood that the Burma tragedy is far more complex than a simple fight between "good" and "evil" - personified by the junta on the one hand, and the Lady on the other.

As much as everybody would like to, but there is no easy quick fix for Burma.

Try to listen to the many agencies who work inside Burma under extremely difficult circumstances, trying to improve the situation by practical work, who have to collaborate with the military to some extend in order to decrease the suffering of the people, and you will find hardly anyone who advocates a complete boycott. Most believe in some form of constructive engagement (obviously not the ASEAN model, where constructive engagement only means that everything is in order as long as one is able to make money).

[qualtrough]

LaoPo, do some thinking for yourself for a moment without referencing what Aung San Suu Kyi has to say. She is not a god, she is a human being. Do you automatically follow everything she says blindly without examining any of it? Please tell me why/how you think that ordinary Burmese will not suffer from a tourism boycott:

1. If the boycott is successful it means that thousands of ordinary Burmese that work in hotels, travel agencies, tour companies, drive buses and taxis, sell trinkets, sell food and beverages, sell postcards on the street, change money on the black market, etc. will lose their jobs or find their income substantially reduced.

2. These people live in a dirt poor country. When they lose their job it means their kids go hungry, get sick and/or die, and that their lives are even more miserable.

3. For the generals it only means that they will have to adjust their income streams; cut down a few more teak trees, sell some more ya ba, dig some more precious stones, drop a mistress, etc. and etc. They will not suffer one iota.

4. The victims of boycotts are always the average people. Castro and his government have not suffered for 40 years because of the US boycott-the Cuban people have. Saddam Hussein did not suffer during the embargo-the Iraqi people did.

The Burma tourism boycott is no different-You are hurting the very people you want to help. Is that worth it to you? I can only assume that Daw Aung San Suu Kyi feels that the Burmese people will not suffer, or that their suffering is 'worth it.' If the former then she is clearly wrong, if the latter then her position reminds me of former US Secretary of State Madelaine Albright, who infamously said that the deaths of thousands of Iraqi children during the Iraq embargo were 'worth it.'

[jdinasia]

Again ... The Boycott of Myanmar should be as close to absolute as posible ... particularly including boycotting companies that do business there and sending letters to the folks in power in those companies.

One would have to wonder what the business interests are of the folks promoting tourism to support the military junta.

I guess ignoring the only elected government there and listening to folks on TV makes much sense. Skip what a Nobel Laureate has to say and listen to folks that have business interests there instead!

[thankuverybig]

i was drinking with a journalist from a well known publication about burma the other week & he told me that aung sang suu kyi has got diariah at the moment,which i found a little amusing.a special person,but she is human after all,she gets the shits.

does anybody know how financially important tourism is to the burmese goverment?

they have a lot of natural resourses ,gas,timber,gemstones,minerals & i think trade with india & china is pretty good.plus the drug trade.

i know that tourists get charged around 3 times as much as the locals for goods & services,(which i think is right),& i think that the average burmese local welcomes tourism.

i have a burmese/karen freind,& i hear that buying a passport for her is a lot more expensive,than for burmese.which i interpret is because they dont really like them having a voice (power) outside of burma.

Edited June 22, 2006 by thankuverybig

[Octaviousbp]

One would have to wonder what the business interests are of the folks promoting tourism to support the military junta.

I guess ignoring the only elected government there and listening to folks on TV makes much sense. Skip what a Nobel Laureate has to say and listen to folks that have business interests there instead!

Well, my personal business interests are: I work for an NGO (not in any way related to Burmese affairs) and I volunteer for another NGO (directly related to Burmese affairs, though not political).

And to reitirate what I had stated many pages back, and has been echoed by at least one other poster now, the current elected Prime Minister of NCUB (National Council of the Union of Burma) Dr. Sein Win and the other members of the current elected presidium have stated that some travel is not only acceptable but encouraged. What kind of travel can be deemed "acceptable" has already been stated, and this thread is already taking it to the well flogged horse.

Burma Campaign UK is an NGO, from what I can gather, and does a lot of good work, I am sure. However, as also has been stated, even if they do represent the current position of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, it does not mean that it is the current position of the contemporary democratic parliament.

[qualtrough]

I guess ignoring the only elected government there and listening to folks on TV makes much sense. Skip what a Nobel Laureate has to say and listen to folks that have business interests there instead!

What folks with 'business interests' are you referring to? If it is to me, I do not have, and have never had, any business interests in Burma, nor do I have any associates or friends with business interests in Burma. As stated earlier, I am interested in Burma and at one time did a lot or research and studying about it. That is the extent of my interest in Burma. If you have evidence that some of the anti-boycott posters have business interests in Burma please share it with us.

[LaoPo]

Burma democrats urged to protest

Democrats want the government to recognise the 1990 elections

A dissident student group in Burma is launching a campaign to demand the release of its leaders, who were recently detained by the ruling junta.

source and story continues here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6035915.stm

Tuesday, 10 October 2006

LaoPo

[percy2]

I've never really had reason to think about the "situation" in Burma before. It seems universal that the government there does not do its best for the people there. It also seems that most would prefer to see a change in power there. Please don't be upset with what could pass for understatement , I was looking for a way to express myself correctly.

After reading this thread and many of the links I feel more educated about the situation there.

I also feel that the "qualtrough faction" seem to present a much more powerful argument than the "LaoPo faction" regarding tourism / visiting Burma.

[fruittbatt]

Much can be achieved by independent travellers in Burma who want to provide assistance to many of those oppressed by the junta.

During your stay you can speak with people in the privacy of a taxi or hired car or other semi-private places, to find out what you will never hear elsewhere. You can agree to contact people in other countries, carry letters, provide info to Amnesty or other bodies in order to publicise abuses within Burma. With a little initiative and stealth you can photograph corvee labourers and other forms of abuse, and publish the pix in the West later.

You can bring medical supplies to friends, or sporting equipment for children, or English texts.

You can tell people in remote areas about small business opportunities they could create and help them set up simple enterprises (taxi instead of rickshaw, eel farming from rice paddies, tour guide rather than enthusiastic hanger-on, adding something new and delicious to a menu, write a menu in English).

You can volunteer to teach a class at any English learning center and let the class bombard you with questions for hours afterwards.

Sanctions are making the lives of ordinary Burmese even more difficult. The lack of independent travel in Burma simply facilitates the junta's job of keeping the dark secrets and the oppression under wraps, invisible to the rest of the world.