No use of force against protesters: Civil Court

[magnbol]

I don't get any of this. Is this so called "thai logic"?

Edited February 20, 2014 by magnbol

[englishoak]

That's not BS.

http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=52ecda3abe0470cf968b46c9

Six wounded in clash between anti- and pro-government groups

Both sides reportedly exchanged gunfire and sporadic gunshots and gun-like sounds continued.

Oh but you forget, we have video of that, you can see the bombs come from above on the bridge, and there's a man in black with gun raised towards people running in front of IT square.

See those people in front of IT square running? They just wanted to vote in elections!

Thank god popcorn man protects us from these terrible voters!

Why is everyone around the popcorn shooter taking cover? Because they are being shot at by the pro-government protesters.

You mean all the photographers standing the other side of the barrier a couple of feet away that arnt taking cover ? popgun guy was almost posing for the cameras.. thats not proof, people duck and cringe when someone is firing off and if they were so bothered about ducking for cover and being shot at why are they all up popgun mans ass. ? people dont make that great cover much better things to hide behind than people.

[Mackie]

No No No No

Don't think you can shoot the Protestors like the Dems shot the Reds in 2010. We forbid it !

Of course if Unelected Councils are formed and they decide to shoot angry Reds fighting for the government they elected, This will be OK. After all some protestors are more important than other protestors.

Just another court decision speeding along "reconciliation

Don't be ridiculous. You cannot have it both ways.

"There will be blood on the streets if the government does not call off the dispersal operations. Our patience is running out. We will take more serious measures to retaliate. The dark sky will turn red, red like blood. "

Jatuporn Prompan, Red shirt leader, Bangkok, April 10, 2010.

"A foreign photojournalist was behind army lines in Din So

Road when the soldiers were attacked by Black Shirts with

grenades and gunfire. He told Human Rights Watch:

[T]hey [the soldiers] got hit by a grenade. They fell back

and had injured with them, so to give cover to their

wounded they returned fire. The Black Shirts were ahead

of them, attacking…. I could see their fire incoming at

us…. The Black Shirts didn’t come to try and take

territory—they shoot and then they leave; they hit [the

soldiers] and retreat.

A period of relative calm and negotiations between the

government and UDD followed. However, violence continued

to flare. On April 22, for example, five M79-launched

grenades landed in a pro-government Yellow Shirt crowd,

killing a woman and wounding at least 78. On April 24 and

29, UDD security guards and protesters armed with

sharpened bamboo sticks stormed Chulalongkorn Hospital

in a search for soldiers"

Just to refresh your memory. Were you outraged? Or were you celebrating? Hypocrites had better keep quiet instead of feigning outrage with the latest development.

[animatic]

This article is confusing: part says "no force against protestors" and other says same but "peaceful protestors". So which is it? Seems ban was against "peaceful protestors" would still leave government able to enforce laws, if they could talk police and military into believing that might be a good idea.... taking over buildings, trashing them, blocking elections, shooting, killing, throwing grenades, etc don't fall into category of "peaceful protest", at least in my book. Maybe I need a Thai definition of what that means.

Of course if some third party makes them suddenly crazy and so conveniently un-peaceful, then you can shoot them?

[whybother]

You mean all the photographers standing the other side of the barrier a couple of feet away that arnt taking cover ? popgun guy was almost posing for the cameras.. thats not proof, people duck and cringe when someone is firing off and if they were so bothered about ducking for cover and being shot at why are they all up popgun mans ass. ? people dont make that great cover much better things to hide behind than people.

If you look at google maps street view (http://goo.gl/maps/7tqvu), and compare it to the video, the reporters are probably standing behind bridge pylon. Others are ducking down behind the concrete barriers. At the end, the shooters signal to people that it is safe to come out from where they are and cross the intersection.

[englishoak]

You mean all the photographers standing the other side of the barrier a couple of feet away that arnt taking cover ? popgun guy was almost posing for the cameras.. thats not proof, people duck and cringe when someone is firing off and if they were so bothered about ducking for cover and being shot at why are they all up popgun mans ass. ? people dont make that great cover much better things to hide behind than people.

If you look at google maps street view (http://goo.gl/maps/7tqvu), and compare it to the video, the reporters are probably standing behind bridge pylon. Others are ducking down behind the concrete barriers. At the end, the shooters signal to people that it is safe to come out from where they are and cross the intersection.

your assuming as you are about them being signalled i dont see anyone giving the thumbs up or actually a hand signal that means its safe guy in orange is giving little signals but he soon stops when popcorn starts firing... on the contrary at the end they are waving someone back... who they or waving back or why we dont have any idea, for all we know they may be now concerned having drawn attn,popcorn blasting away hasnt been exactly subtle

[whybother]

your assuming as you are about them being signalled i dont see anyone giving the thumbs up or actually a hand signal that means its safe guy in orange is giving little signals but he soon stops when popcorn starts firing... on the contrary at the end they are waving someone back... who they or waving back or why we dont have any idea, for all we know they may be now concerned having drawn attn,popcorn blasting away hasnt been exactly subtle

Then you're not watching the video. Look at 0.36. The guy in the white balaclava is putting his hand up to say stop. Then at 1.00 he is signalling them to go.

[magnbol]

No use of force against protesters: Civil Court

"The court also..... whose demonstrations have so far been conducted peacefully."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-02-19

Oh please, doesn't The Nation feel embarrassed to write such lie?

How can they even begin to call this "peaceful demonstrations"??

Sent from the Appie Tappie

The source is AFP

Ok, that wasn't clear to me.

Sent from the Appie Tappie

[rubl]

"...whose demonstrations have so far been conducted peacefully"

Where has this author been? If these demonstrations are considered "peaceful," then the WW II must have been a love-in. 555

It started peacefully till the government got upset and started talking about rebels, terrorists and police started to 'observe' with undercover armed policemen. Of course some here now have forgotten that, just like why the anti-government protests started. The sneakily modified amnesty bill which became a blanket amnesty bill with extended covering period? Covering the last two years of Thaksin in/out of office AND Yinglucks first two years? The roughly push through in parliament with two readings and two votes in slightly more than 24 hours? The 'please don't protest, go home, it's not done yet' by Yingluck? The "it's not my fault, it's up to the Senate' by Yingluck? Etc., etc.

A lot of protests start off peaceful rubi, they arn't any longer peaceful and havn't been for a while. There is no need for yet another background story etc we all know it, excuses arnt required in a court of law only the facts. are these protests now peaceful or not ? ... don't be selective on days or locations etc is violence a factor at times or not ? Facts thats all the court needs to be looking at and they seemed to have missed out a large chunk of evidence in abundance of the shootings etc for some reason from the protesters.

A ruling is a ruling ( not that anyone ever listens or takes any notice of them ) this is not a good one and its pretty much seen as a joke worldwide.

Simple question you think the ruling is correct in all they have decided to uphold in their decision and that the protests are non violent still ?

There is no need for yet another background story, as some would rather forget about all of that. You keep harassing someone, shoot at him, drop the odd grenade and the moment he retaliates you forget about the past. Just the 'see, he's violent'.

Furthermore the court only ruled the government should not use force. As far as I know they didn't rule on whether or not the protests were violent. Therefore I cannot answer your question as it is. Of course a correct translation of the complete ruling would be welcomed.

[Felipesed]

absolutely disgraceful and completely 'unbiased' of course

Well why don't you write to the Court and tell them upon which points of law they erred?

I am sure your extensive knowledge of Thai law will cause them to reconsider their verdict.

Or you get send in a petition from the "rent a Reds" on this site; that would really impress them!

[englishoak]

There is no need because we all know it on a daily reminded basis thanks. Im well aware of cause and effect ive said it enough times I just asked a simple direct question as they would in court ..... are they using violence madam yes or no ? and you refused to answer it. That wont do in a court of law only the facts are required not a story surrounding it.

You ever been to a real court rubi or heard the questioning methods ? facts... yes or no answers please in court thats it. Not a debate, mind you in a thai court nothing would surprise me.

Edited February 20, 2014 by englishoak

[NCFC]

your assuming as you are about them being signalled i dont see anyone giving the thumbs up or actually a hand signal that means its safe guy in orange is giving little signals but he soon stops when popcorn starts firing... on the contrary at the end they are waving someone back... who they or waving back or why we dont have any idea, for all we know they may be now concerned having drawn attn,popcorn blasting away hasnt been exactly subtle

Then you're not watching the video. Look at 0.36. The guy in the white balaclava is putting his hand up to say stop. Then at 1.00 he is signalling them to go.

I interpret it differently. The guy in the white balaclava is looking to his immediate left and right at the people around him and then puts his hand up as a warning to his own side that popcorn man is shooting.

The hand signal at 1:00, when Thai people move their palm downwards in that motion normally it means come here rather than go. I interpret it as he is wanting someone to join his team, perhaps to join in the firing or to remove popcorn man from the scene, who knows? But they don't seem to be a very benevolent bunch of guys, whatever.

[whybother]

your assuming as you are about them being signalled i dont see anyone giving the thumbs up or actually a hand signal that means its safe guy in orange is giving little signals but he soon stops when popcorn starts firing... on the contrary at the end they are waving someone back... who they or waving back or why we dont have any idea, for all we know they may be now concerned having drawn attn,popcorn blasting away hasnt been exactly subtle

Then you're not watching the video. Look at 0.36. The guy in the white balaclava is putting his hand up to say stop. Then at 1.00 he is signalling them to go.

I interpret it differently. The guy in the white balaclava is looking to his immediate left and right at the people around him and then puts his hand up as a warning to his own side that popcorn man is shooting.

The hand signal at 1:00, when Thai people move their palm downwards in that motion normally it means come here rather than go. I interpret it as he is wanting someone to join his team, perhaps to join in the firing or to remove popcorn man from the scene, who knows? But they don't seem to be a very benevolent bunch of guys, whatever.

Why would he need to signal to his own people that popcorn man is going to shoot? Particularly when he doesn't shoot for another 25 seconds (at least, since there is a gap in the video).

Yes, the the down hand signal is "come here", which is what I meant - "it is now safe to go across the road to come to us". There were no reports of others joining the popcorn shooter.

[NCFC]

your assuming as you are about them being signalled i dont see anyone giving the thumbs up or actually a hand signal that means its safe guy in orange is giving little signals but he soon stops when popcorn starts firing... on the contrary at the end they are waving someone back... who they or waving back or why we dont have any idea, for all we know they may be now concerned having drawn attn,popcorn blasting away hasnt been exactly subtle

Then you're not watching the video. Look at 0.36. The guy in the white balaclava is putting his hand up to say stop. Then at 1.00 he is signalling them to go.

I interpret it differently. The guy in the white balaclava is looking to his immediate left and right at the people around him and then puts his hand up as a warning to his own side that popcorn man is shooting.

The hand signal at 1:00, when Thai people move their palm downwards in that motion normally it means come here rather than go. I interpret it as he is wanting someone to join his team, perhaps to join in the firing or to remove popcorn man from the scene, who knows? But they don't seem to be a very benevolent bunch of guys, whatever.

Why would he need to signal to his own people that popcorn man is going to shoot? Particularly when he doesn't shoot for another 25 seconds (at least, since there is a gap in the video).

Yes, the the down hand signal is "come here", which is what I meant - "it is now safe to go across the road to come to us". There were no reports of others joining the popcorn shooter.

To warn his guys not to move into the line of fire? It's probably a good idea considering the confusion and chaos with bombs going off. Maybe they teach that as part of military training, they certainly seem to be working as an organised team.

[whybother]

To warn his guys not to move into the line of fire? It's probably a good idea considering the confusion and chaos with bombs going off. Maybe they teach that as part of military training, they certainly seem to be working as an organised team.

You mean, into the line of fire from the pro-government protesters? Was the popcorn shooter going to turn 90 degrees and start firing at his own people?

Yeah ... military training ... that's what they were doing.

[jimbeam1]

OK so I take it this protest is now legally peaceful and has the complete backing of the courts?

So now they can really shut Bangkok down. Whooppeee skips.

There is a line in a Chicago song (I forget which one) that goes the whole World is watching. It is a crowd chant during student riots, where I think around 17 of them were shot dead.

jb1

[gerrythepoet]

Surely the court must realise that the elements that are within the ranks of the protestors that are clearly non peaceful cannot be allowed to be shielded behind a curtain of non- force. Force needs to be used to remove the bad apple there is no other way. Otherwise more intimidation, injuries and death awaits the law officers.

[BlueNoseCodger]

In view of the 2010 event would Yingluck and Chalerm not be charged with murder? I agree constitutionally they are on very thin ice. The protestors were not violent and did no harm to people. . That all came about after the Thaksin led government tried to shut them down. They in no way urged violence from their rally platforms such as the red shirts did with there burn Bangkok down. The only harm they did was when the red shirts tried to intimidate them with their typical type of intimidation. It back fired on them and they are now reluctant to try it

In my opinion Thaksin is trying to create a police state with him as the leader dictator. There has been so much corruption and lying brought to light here that if there was a legal way to impeach the Government it should start right now.

The audacity or in this case stupidity to stand in front of a national televised audience and with a straight face say the government can not pay the 130 billion baht owed to the farmers since long before the protestors came on the scene is the fault of the protestors. Alone that should be grounds for impeachment. This is one of the parts of the constitution that needs changing it should not be legal to tell an out and out lie to cover up your ineptness or to make people feel good.

Yingluk was elected by the majority of Thai people, your Warlord Suthep raised a mob and tried to take power.

PDRC guards shot pro-democracy people at Laksi. Your people claimed a shot man was PDRC! But no, he just wanted to vote in elections! The video footage showed you are liars.

PDRC guards threw a handgrenade at police and shot and killed one in the head. Your people claimed the police threw it at themselves! The video footage showed you are liars.

Now you claim the audacious attempt to over throw the elected government and install a dictator is Thaksin? By which you mean elections?

No sir, it is Suthep and his elite. Just as their PR team lie about the killers, so you lie about the dictators!

Edited February 20, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[Pikeybkk]

rubbish.....baton charge the <deleted>

[salapau]

Protesters can and have used violence - the government can't ??

[TechnikaIII]

So the emergency decree remains, but violence to disperse protesters is out. This can only be good news for the people on the streets as well as the country at large, because the underlying principle is that protests are a legal form of dissent in a free society. Chalerm wanted to do away with that. In terms of the emergency decree itself, the administration remains on constitutional thin ice, as an appeal to the Constitutional Court on the legality of its imposition will certainly be forthcoming at some point. For Chalerm, this has been a very bad week. His push yesterday to retake five protest areas ended in none of them being retaken, and with the tragic loss of life - four civilians and one policeman, as well as many dozens of injured. This ruling puts a stop to the carnage. And it places the administration in an ever tighter corner, as impeachment investigations continue, as the rice scandal continues to overwhelm them, and as a parliament sits idle with no quorum. The mechanisms of this administration's defeat are in motion, from a variety of angles, headed towards their day in court.

You are too optimistic....

First of all, there is still the unknown third party....

And if it was a good or bad week for Chalerm depends on his book-bank.....I don't think he cares if the protesters sees him as idiot if the boss transfers some money.

Even if the courts impeach them tomorrow and they have to leave country, they still have enough money to spend more per day than we can do in our life.....

So non of them will loose, they only win more or less.

Scamper describes the situation very well.

As for your: ".... the unknown third party....", see the attached photo.

Charlerm knows very well. He's just a pathetic liar.

[stoli]

Seriously, it's no wonder that there are major protests so often with rulings like this.

If you want to be serious, you should understand that this is the same ruling that would be made in most civilized nations on earth. Are you suggesting that the people do not have a right to protest, and that they should be gun downed, as they were a few days ago? I certainly hope not.

[englishoak]

Seriously, it's no wonder that there are major protests so often with rulings like this.

If you want to be serious, you should understand that this is the same ruling that would be made in most civilized nations on earth. Are you suggesting that the people do not have a right to protest, and that they should be gun downed, as they were a few days ago? I certainly hope not.

The moment a protest starts to use live fire or deadly weapons or armed civilian guards in any civilised country it would have been brought to an abrupt end and that would have happened months ago....

[fab4]

absolutely disgraceful and completely 'unbiased' of course

You question the wisdom of the court's ruling? If so, what makes you describe it as 'disgraceful', what's your reasoning for that.

As for the 'unbiased of course', well, only when it goes against you, but perfectly correct when it goes for you.

Possibly because the courts say these are peaceful rallies. But of course you'll agree with them because people always throw grenades and shoot at policeman during peaceful rallies, don't they rubl.

In fact I bet you were cheering on the MIB back in 2010 for that very reason.

Basicly peaceful at first when immediately found guilty of terrorism, rebellion and what more. At that time only protesting an undemocratic government which tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill which even covered Yingluck's first two years in office.

Apart from the verbal abuse, we also started to get the nightly getting shot at, grenades dropped, police protection totally failing. That's when a few guards started to get 'armed'. I saw k. Chalerm last Thursday smiling broadly (or was that smirking) when shown the enormous amount of WMD his 400 strong police force had captured from lots of dangerous and violent terrorists.

From the beginning police showed a bias against the anti-government protesters. Constant harassment, under cover and armed surveiance. Gunfights between unknowns and/or police and some armed protesters. CAPO, DSI and CMPO joined the fun. Arrest warrents, 'we want to talk', 'we will capture them', 'we talk too much', etc., etc. Will those who donate money to paid bail for 184 arrested 'terrorists' by requested to explain their action before the CMPO/DSI tribunal?

As for 2010, well the similarity seems that again unknowns helped against non-red-shirts/non-Thaksin supporters. Plus of course the grenades started dropping around the time a court ruled to confiscate 43 billion of Thaksin's illgotten gains and only returned about 30 billion to him and his relatives. Poor Shinawatras, lable them farmers and maybe the government will help them.

Glad to see the "we" qualifier there, rubl. You're not in the slightest embarassed by your professed love for all things abhisit or suthep, are you?

I truly hope you get everything you wish for, just don't come whinging on this forum if you do.

[fab4]

To warn his guys not to move into the line of fire? It's probably a good idea considering the confusion and chaos with bombs going off. Maybe they teach that as part of military training, they certainly seem to be working as an organised team.

You mean, into the line of fire from the pro-government protesters? Was the popcorn shooter going to turn 90 degrees and start firing at his own people?

Yeah ... military training ... that's what they were doing.

Into the "line of fire" from the pro government side?

Forensic results - 3 rounds from the pro government "side", the anti's? 29.

[rubl]

Possibly because the courts say these are peaceful rallies. But of course you'll agree with them because people always throw grenades and shoot at policeman during peaceful rallies, don't they rubl.

In fact I bet you were cheering on the MIB back in 2010 for that very reason.

Basicly peaceful at first when immediately found guilty of terrorism, rebellion and what more. At that time only protesting an undemocratic government which tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill which even covered Yingluck's first two years in office.

Apart from the verbal abuse, we also started to get the nightly getting shot at, grenades dropped, police protection totally failing. That's when a few guards started to get 'armed'. I saw k. Chalerm last Thursday smiling broadly (or was that smirking) when shown the enormous amount of WMD his 400 strong police force had captured from lots of dangerous and violent terrorists.

From the beginning police showed a bias against the anti-government protesters. Constant harassment, under cover and armed surveiance. Gunfights between unknowns and/or police and some armed protesters. CAPO, DSI and CMPO joined the fun. Arrest warrents, 'we want to talk', 'we will capture them', 'we talk too much', etc., etc. Will those who donate money to paid bail for 184 arrested 'terrorists' by requested to explain their action before the CMPO/DSI tribunal?

As for 2010, well the similarity seems that again unknowns helped against non-red-shirts/non-Thaksin supporters. Plus of course the grenades started dropping around the time a court ruled to confiscate 43 billion of Thaksin's illgotten gains and only returned about 30 billion to him and his relatives. Poor Shinawatras, lable them farmers and maybe the government will help them.

Glad to see the "we" qualifier there, rubl. You're not in the slightest embarassed by your professed love for all things abhisit or suthep, are you?

I truly hope you get everything you wish for, just don't come whinging on this forum if you do.

Any comment on the actual contents of my post, or just your usual rubbish ?

[rubl]

To warn his guys not to move into the line of fire? It's probably a good idea considering the confusion and chaos with bombs going off. Maybe they teach that as part of military training, they certainly seem to be working as an organised team.

You mean, into the line of fire from the pro-government protesters? Was the popcorn shooter going to turn 90 degrees and start firing at his own people?

Yeah ... military training ... that's what they were doing.

Into the "line of fire" from the pro government side?

Forensic results - 3 rounds from the pro government "side", the anti's? 29.

Only one shot is enough, one would expect

[NCFC]

To warn his guys not to move into the line of fire? It's probably a good idea considering the confusion and chaos with bombs going off. Maybe they teach that as part of military training, they certainly seem to be working as an organised team.

You mean, into the line of fire from the pro-government protesters? Was the popcorn shooter going to turn 90 degrees and start firing at his own people?

Yeah ... military training ... that's what they were doing.

So just literally seconds after popcorn shooter opens fire you claim his wingman is signalling people it's safe to cross the road? Bizarre.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[rabas]

Seriously, it's no wonder that there are major protests so often with rulings like this.

If you want to be serious, you should understand that this is the same ruling that would be made in most civilized nations on earth. Are you suggesting that the people do not have a right to protest, and that they should be gun downed, as they were a few days ago? I certainly hope not.

The moment a protest starts to use live fire or deadly weapons or armed civilian guards in any civilised country it would have been brought to an abrupt end and that would have happened months ago....

yes, .... and in said civilized society the police would have investigated each of the 45 over hand grenades thrown at the protesters since the beginning of the protests.

[whybother]

To warn his guys not to move into the line of fire? It's probably a good idea considering the confusion and chaos with bombs going off. Maybe they teach that as part of military training, they certainly seem to be working as an organised team.

You mean, into the line of fire from the pro-government protesters? Was the popcorn shooter going to turn 90 degrees and start firing at his own people?

Yeah ... military training ... that's what they were doing.

Into the "line of fire" from the pro government side?

Forensic results - 3 rounds from the pro government "side", the anti's? 29.

Thank you for confirming that the pro-government side was shooting too.