Bangkok Ratchaprasong: M79 'launched from Pratunam'

[Artisi]

Just coincidental that this over the top violence starts after ;

The police are told by courts that they can't use force to disperse protesters.

The Red Shirts UDD are having War Drums rallies.

There is a concerted effort to hobble Shinawatra clan financial interests.

The election is not happening and all threats at the EC are ineffectual.

Yingluck is getting charged for criminal negligence in office

The farmers are up in arms and riding thousands of tractors to Bangkok.

The government has emptied the coffers and is hanging on by toenails.

I thought the protesters have been complaining for months now about these attacks?

Sorry to bust your theory.

You are right. Its been 3 & half months now and no scoundrel has been caught. But miracles of all miracles, a Red Shirt gets shot and the police catches the shooters within days.

any surprise there?

[JRSoul]

Everyone seems to overlook this statement: "The NSC chief responded by saying certain people were 'using violence to justify the existence of the anti-government protesters' and that these people were also behind the attack in Trat, because they had a 'similar purpose'."

He gives no evidence behind this stunning allegation, but then no one else has been giving evidence of cupability for violence but many ThaiVisa readers seem perfectly happy to assign blame for all violence on the PTP. From a modis operandi viewpoint, an anti-government protest led by the former democrat deputy prime minister Suthep accused of killing PTP protesters in 2010 would seem more than reasonable to kill his own protesters for political power than what the PTP would gain.

The reason he gives no evidence is that he has none. It is typical PTP self-serving BS that only their more moronic supporters would give any credibility to, somehow completely ignoring the intimidatory effects of these attacks on anti-government protesters.

ANYBODY that criticises Thaksin or his puppets gets attacked, and the blame is always laid on anybody but his supporters by his mercenary propagandists.

[Minnehaha]

The BBC World News' footage of the area showed more military than BIB in attendance and that included Military Police who appeared to be doing Scene of Crime work. So just who was the lead agency ?

I'm sure the investigation will not be enhanced by too many cooks and probably not working in tandem since they come from vastly different organisations not noted for mutual respect and co-operation.

Is this another sleeping dog best left lying ?

Considering that the RTP have about as much credibility as the 'real' Rolex watches on sale at Patpong night market, it might mean that the attack is actually being investigated for a change.

You are correct about the BIB but military involvement doesn't mean the investigation will be any better especially if two sets of investigators work against each other rather than with.

Is the purpose of any investigation here to identify those responsible and let justice take its course or identify those involved and cover it up ?

Considering that till now no one seems to have been charged for any of the attacks on protesters, not even the man with a car full of weapons at Rangsit or the woman driving the car used to shoot at people at Democracy Monument, it would be appear that someone in the RTP/CMPO is doing as little as possible to bring culprits to justice. Hopefully the military are less subservient to this, but there's only so much that can be traced from grenade fragments and the wounds of the dead and injured. Although it will be interesting to see if the tendentious claims by the police and Chalerm are contradicted by the military later today.

Whatever happened to the 10,000 CCTV cameras that were set up across Bangkok? Originally it was discovered they had nothing inside, but then the BKK municipal govt said they would fix them.

[diehard60]

What about the weapons that the suthep's thugs have? Anyone going to stop them????

[casualbiker]

What about the weapons that the suthep's thugs have? Anyone going to stop them????

What weapons? Which thugs?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Basil B]

He added that police will man checkpoints around the clock to ensure no weapons are taken into rally sites and will check vantage points in the three protest areas to cut down on the chance of them being used for future attacks.

Just making sure they can not fight back...

[Centrum]

Permit me to correct this inadvertent bit of historical revisionism.

The UDD/RS were gathering at the said stadium as a show of force - in large numbers - to counter what was then growing coup-monger stuff in the streets.

They never ventured out of that facility.

The coup-mongers needed confrontation however, and it wasn't coming to them.....They were the only ones in whose interest it was for that.....The UDD/RS were not about to accommodate them. The stadium was in part selected far away from coupist activities to insure there was no accidental encounters that would serve the coup-monger interests.

In order to instigate the desired confrontation, the coupists mobilized students from a nearby University to create confrontation around the stadium.

It was at that point that the UDD/RS cancelled the gathering, not wanting to be a target to serve the interests of others, and not to give the voter-selected Govt. a problem, beyond dealing with the coupists.

Historical revisionism only works with those who are ill-informed...That is mostly not the case on TV.

"...attacks on the anti government protest sites/groups have been carried out with no reguard"

In keeping with above rationale, there are many convinced that what appear to be attacks, are in fact not attacks...One needs to constantly be mindful of whose interests are served, through havoc, mayhem and what are characterized as 'attacks'. The coup-mongers need attacks, confrontation, bombs, firecrackers and what-have-you, or they are 'dead in the water'.

Given those motives, it is not a reach to conclude who originates this stuff. Certainly Yingluck and her elected administration do not need it, and their constituencies are fully aware of it...They are not about to undermine the Govt. they elected.

So this is how things are on Planet Red Shirt, located a million miles from reality.

As a propagandist, you fail! As a TVRS, you're a star.

The facts should read that the protesters have been attacked nightly with bombs and gunfire, and during daylight, by as yet unknown people. People who are able to evade police capture because...well we don't know.

But it is in the interests of the Red Shirts, who know that their hold onto power is fast slipping away, to create havoc and threaten the people of Bangkok, just as they did in 2010.

Obviously the Boppe household doesn't have Red Shirt TV, where one is daily exposed to the rantings of Ko Tee et al,

"This is already a war, but so far it is an unarmed war," "If there is a coup, or the election doesn't happen, then it definitely becomes an armed war."

"I want there to be lots of violence to put an end to all this," he said. "I'm bored by speeches. It's time to clean the country, to get rid of the elite, all of them."

Ko Tee and others who cheer when their henchmen kill children, are the true face of the Red Shirt movement.

[Scamper]

" The NSC chief responded by saying certain people were "using violence to justify the existence of the anti-government protesters" and that these people were also behind the attack in Trat, because they had a "similar purpose". "

The NSC chief has disgraced himself and his office with this utterly unbelievable and utterly incredulous statement, and he has brought shame to the nation and has dishonoured the Thai men, women, and children who have been the victims of these crimes against humanity. Why in the world would protesters launch a massacre against themselves in order to justify their own existence? By what absurd logic does this stem from ? Chalerm - of all people - is the last person to back up any of these monstrous claims. We have had just about enough of his " I know all about it, but I'm staying mute " routine. He and his absurd police spokesmen have brought nothing but shame and disgrace to themselves. The Thai people should apply a little media censorship of their own, and immediately switch off the channel at the mere sight of them, and rely on their own better judgement.

[smutcakes]

Surely if it was launched from there, there must have been thousands of people around and seen it. I am no ballistics expert but surely it is not easy to covertly launch a grenade in a busy intersection without someone seeing it? but i stand to be corrected.

I am also not sure how they know its an expert and they were aiming for Big C, rather than just brainless firing into a group of people.

Either way its a terrible act and the perpetrators need to be brought to justice asap.

[ShannonT]

Just coincidental that this over the top violence starts after ;

The police are told by courts that they can't use force to disperse protesters.

The Red Shirts UDD are having War Drums rallies.

There is a concerted effort to hobble Shinawatra clan financial interests.

The election is not happening and all threats at the EC are ineffectual.

Yingluck is getting charged for criminal negligence in office

The farmers are up in arms and riding thousands of tractors to Bangkok.

The government has emptied the coffers and is hanging on by toenails.

I thought the protesters have been complaining for months now about these attacks?

Sorry to bust your theory.

You are right. Its been 3 & half months now and no scoundrel has been caught. But miracles of all miracles, a Red Shirt gets shot and the police catches the shooters within days.

You realize that shooting was not politically motivated, right? It was a local dispute and the police was already aware of it.

If you know so much, perhaps you should share with us the identity of the bombers?

That way police can go arrest them, you know? Otherwise, why are you blaming police if you know just as much or less?

[Trembly]

Wow. Just ... Wow.

What an incredibly shameless, barefaced lie.

Big C is nowhere near the stage!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited February 25, 2014 by Trembly

[rubl]

Everyone seems to overlook this statement: "The NSC chief responded by saying certain people were 'using violence to justify the existence of the anti-government protesters' and that these people were also behind the attack in Trat, because they had a 'similar purpose'."

He gives no evidence behind this stunning allegation, but then no one else has been giving evidence of cupability for violence but many ThaiVisa readers seem perfectly happy to assign blame for all violence on the PTP. From a modis operandi viewpoint, an anti-government protest led by the former democrat deputy prime minister Suthep accused of killing PTP protesters in 2010 would seem more than reasonable to kill his own protesters for political power than what the PTP would gain.

Accused of pre-meditated murder as private person while part of the CRES which ordered the Army to remove protesters.

Anyway, of course it must be Suthep c.s. who do all this indiscriminate killing of innocents and fellow protesters only to provoke armed suppression by police, get sympathy from foreign powers and to annoy certain TVposters in particular.

In a simply word such suggestions are just "disgusting" !

[rubl]

Surely if it was launched from there, there must have been thousands of people around and seen it. I am no ballistics expert but surely it is not easy to covertly launch a grenade in a busy intersection without someone seeing it? but i stand to be corrected.

I am also not sure how they know its an expert and they were aiming for Big C, rather than just brainless firing into a group of people.

Either way its a terrible act and the perpetrators need to be brought to justice asap.

There might have been thousands around but it would be coincidence if someone just happened to look at a certain spot even assuming that spot would be easy visible. As no one has come forward to tell the police that they saw someone, it would seem covertly launching a grenade into a busy crowded area is easy.

As for expert or not, most likely an on purpose, deliberate firing into a group of people.

With the results the police how shown till now on all nightly shootings and grenade launches I'm afraid the ASAP may be as close as the 29th of February this year. What I find the most disgusting part of this all is that some still continue suggesting that the protesters or Suthep himself must have done this.

Edited February 25, 2014 by rubl

[smutcakes]

Surely if it was launched from there, there must have been thousands of people around and seen it. I am no ballistics expert but surely it is not easy to covertly launch a grenade in a busy intersection without someone seeing it? but i stand to be corrected.

I am also not sure how they know its an expert and they were aiming for Big C, rather than just brainless firing into a group of people.

Either way its a terrible act and the perpetrators need to be brought to justice asap.

There might have been thousands around but it would be coincidence if someone just happened to look at a certain spot even assuming that spot would be easy visible. As no one has come forward to tell the police that they saw someone, it would seem covertly launching a grenade into a busy crowded area is easy.

As for expert or not, most likely a on purpose, deliberate firing into a group of people.

With the results the police how shown till now on all nightly shootings and grenade launches I'm afraid the ASAP may be as close as the 29th of February this year. What I find the most disgusting part of this all is that some still continue suggesting that the protesters or Suthep himself must have done this.

Well i did say i could be corrected. I am not sure on the current situation, but previously the police have not even been allowed into some incident areas to investigate. Its all a bit strange, you have a situation where the police are targeted as bad and pro TS, and shot at by people whoever they are, and then they are criticized for not carrying out investigation. On the one hand they are widely distrusted, whilst on the other hand they are criticized for not doing their job among the very people who are shooting at them and criticizing them.

Whilst i expect the bombings and shootings are the work of groups aligned to the Government, i don't rule out the possibility they could be of alternative factions who have other things in mind, such is the fractious nature of Thai politics.

[rubl]

Surely if it was launched from there, there must have been thousands of people around and seen it. I am no ballistics expert but surely it is not easy to covertly launch a grenade in a busy intersection without someone seeing it? but i stand to be corrected.

I am also not sure how they know its an expert and they were aiming for Big C, rather than just brainless firing into a group of people.

Either way its a terrible act and the perpetrators need to be brought to justice asap.

There might have been thousands around but it would be coincidence if someone just happened to look at a certain spot even assuming that spot would be easy visible. As no one has come forward to tell the police that they saw someone, it would seem covertly launching a grenade into a busy crowded area is easy.

As for expert or not, most likely a on purpose, deliberate firing into a group of people.

With the results the police how shown till now on all nightly shootings and grenade launches I'm afraid the ASAP may be as close as the 29th of February this year. What I find the most disgusting part of this all is that some still continue suggesting that the protesters or Suthep himself must have done this.

Well i did say i could be corrected. I am not sure on the current situation, but previously the police have not even been allowed into some incident areas to investigate. Its all a bit strange, you have a situation where the police are targeted as bad and pro TS, and shot at by people whoever they are, and then they are criticized for not carrying out investigation. On the one hand they are widely distrusted, whilst on the other hand they are criticized for not doing their job among the very people who are shooting at them and criticizing them.

Whilst i expect the bombings and shootings are the work of groups aligned to the Government, i don't rule out the possibility they could be of alternative factions who have other things in mind, such is the fractious nature of Thai politics.

PS all attacks seem to come from OUTSIDE protest areas targetting people inside protest areas. Surely the police wasn't being obstructed in searching where shots or grenades came from

[smutcakes]

Surely if it was launched from there, there must have been thousands of people around and seen it. I am no ballistics expert but surely it is not easy to covertly launch a grenade in a busy intersection without someone seeing it? but i stand to be corrected.

I am also not sure how they know its an expert and they were aiming for Big C, rather than just brainless firing into a group of people.

Either way its a terrible act and the perpetrators need to be brought to justice asap.

There might have been thousands around but it would be coincidence if someone just happened to look at a certain spot even assuming that spot would be easy visible. As no one has come forward to tell the police that they saw someone, it would seem covertly launching a grenade into a busy crowded area is easy.

As for expert or not, most likely a on purpose, deliberate firing into a group of people.

With the results the police how shown till now on all nightly shootings and grenade launches I'm afraid the ASAP may be as close as the 29th of February this year. What I find the most disgusting part of this all is that some still continue suggesting that the protesters or Suthep himself must have done this.

Well i did say i could be corrected. I am not sure on the current situation, but previously the police have not even been allowed into some incident areas to investigate. Its all a bit strange, you have a situation where the police are targeted as bad and pro TS, and shot at by people whoever they are, and then they are criticized for not carrying out investigation. On the one hand they are widely distrusted, whilst on the other hand they are criticized for not doing their job among the very people who are shooting at them and criticizing them.

Whilst i expect the bombings and shootings are the work of groups aligned to the Government, i don't rule out the possibility they could be of alternative factions who have other things in mind, such is the fractious nature of Thai politics.

PS all attacks seem to come from OUTSIDE protest areas targetting people inside protest areas. Surely the police wasn't being obstructed in searching where shots or grenades came from

Well as you said, its possible to fire a grenade and be undetected, so how do they know where it came from?...........

[khunken]

Meanwhile, National Security Council (NSC) chief Paradorn Pattanatabut yesterday dismissed a Navy commander's claim that foreign forces were involved in fatal attacks against anti-government protesters in Bangkok and Trat over the weekend.

Instead, Paradorn put the attacks down to extremists who had joined the rally under the guise of being protesters.

Well the Thaksin lackey Paradorn would say that, wouldn't he? Not that the Navy commander's claim is any more credible.

Of course some posters actually believe the crap that government lackeys (including Chalerm) put out.

Interesting that the army seems to be assisting with some of the investigations as there has been very little effort from the BIB to bring any of the culprits to justice. Even when such obvious red shirt mobs - such as Ko Tee's - attack the protestors there are no arrests.

[smutcakes]

Meanwhile, National Security Council (NSC) chief Paradorn Pattanatabut yesterday dismissed a Navy commander's claim that foreign forces were involved in fatal attacks against anti-government protesters in Bangkok and Trat over the weekend.

Instead, Paradorn put the attacks down to extremists who had joined the rally under the guise of being protesters.

Well the Thaksin lackey Paradorn would say that, wouldn't he? Not that the Navy commander's claim is any more credible.

Of course some posters actually believe the crap that government lackeys (including Chalerm) put out.

Interesting that the army seems to be assisting with some of the investigations as there has been very little effort from the BIB to bring any of the culprits to justice. Even when such obvious red shirt mobs - such as Ko Tee's - attack the protestors there are no arrests.

How many of them have the Navy brought to justice despite poling the boarder and 'knowing' these people came across 'multiple times'???

[Old Man River]

Everyone seems to overlook this statement: "The NSC chief responded by saying certain people were 'using violence to justify the existence of the anti-government protesters' and that these people were also behind the attack in Trat, because they had a 'similar purpose'."

He gives no evidence behind this stunning allegation, but then no one else has been giving evidence of cupability for violence but many ThaiVisa readers seem perfectly happy to assign blame for all violence on the PTP. From a modis operandi viewpoint, an anti-government protest led by the former democrat deputy prime minister Suthep accused of killing PTP protesters in 2010 would seem more than reasonable to kill his own protesters for political power than what the PTP would gain.

Then again maybe this has nothing to do with politics.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[khunken]

Meanwhile, National Security Council (NSC) chief Paradorn Pattanatabut yesterday dismissed a Navy commander's claim that foreign forces were involved in fatal attacks against anti-government protesters in Bangkok and Trat over the weekend.

Instead, Paradorn put the attacks down to extremists who had joined the rally under the guise of being protesters.

Well the Thaksin lackey Paradorn would say that, wouldn't he? Not that the Navy commander's claim is any more credible.

Of course some posters actually believe the crap that government lackeys (including Chalerm) put out.

Interesting that the army seems to be assisting with some of the investigations as there has been very little effort from the BIB to bring any of the culprits to justice. Even when such obvious red shirt mobs - such as Ko Tee's - attack the protestors there are no arrests.

How many of them have the Navy brought to justice despite poling the boarder and 'knowing' these people came across 'multiple times'???

None. Read my post above - I didn't give the navy commander any credibility.

The attack in Trat is but one of the scores of attacks on protestors, none of which have been resolved by the police. One shooting of a red leader - Kwanchai - in Udon had the police doing their utmost to find the culprits and even providing Kwanchai with an escort to vote.

At least 2 attacks - probably 3 - were by red shirt mobs from Pathum Thani (Ko Tee) and Samut Prakarn (protest leader shot dead). No arrests.

Putting the police under the control of CMPO with looney Chalerm and 2 other stooges was a typical Thaksin ploy to use them for his own ends - not in any way to uphold the law which they only do when it suits them anyway.

Will Chalerm again defend BIB extortion by implying it is 'asking for a donation' this Songkran?

[fleeing]

There might have been thousands around but it would be coincidence if someone just happened to look at a certain spot even assuming that spot would be easy visible. As no one has come forward to tell the police that they saw someone, it would seem covertly launching a grenade into a busy crowded area is easy.

As for expert or not, most likely a on purpose, deliberate firing into a group of people.

With the results the police how shown till now on all nightly shootings and grenade launches I'm afraid the ASAP may be as close as the 29th of February this year. What I find the most disgusting part of this all is that some still continue suggesting that the protesters or Suthep himself must have done this.

Well i did say i could be corrected. I am not sure on the current situation, but previously the police have not even been allowed into some incident areas to investigate. Its all a bit strange, you have a situation where the police are targeted as bad and pro TS, and shot at by people whoever they are, and then they are criticized for not carrying out investigation. On the one hand they are widely distrusted, whilst on the other hand they are criticized for not doing their job among the very people who are shooting at them and criticizing them.

Whilst i expect the bombings and shootings are the work of groups aligned to the Government, i don't rule out the possibility they could be of alternative factions who have other things in mind, such is the fractious nature of Thai politics.

PS all attacks seem to come from OUTSIDE protest areas targetting people inside protest areas. Surely the police wasn't being obstructed in searching where shots or grenades came from

Well as you said, its possible to fire a grenade and be undetected, so how do they know where it came from?...........

I'm no 'hard-man' ex-military munitions expert, but it would appear that the M79 used in this attack has an optimum range of 200 to 350 metres. Simply looking at where it landed would suggest that, unless it was launched from the relatively crowded protest-stage at Ratchaprasong, it was fired from the entrance to the car-park at Central World (unlikely) or Pratunam junction, possibly the car-park attached to Platinum Mall (very likely).

Pure speculation on my part, but a lot more realistic than the assertions coming from the police, Chalerm and some posters here.

[Trembly]

We have some incredibly spatially-challenged Police Generals here.

"The shooter is likely an expert in using M79 launchers judging

from the accuracy of the round [landing inside the rally stage area]," he said.

Utter rubbish. Police Major-General Ronnakorn has either never been to the area, never seen a map of the area, or he is trying to fool people with this outrageously stupid lie. How big does this ordinance expert think that the blast radius of an M79 grenade is?

Paradorn put the attacks down to extremists who had joined the rally under the guise of being protesters

That would put the firing location approximately 500 meters from the blast area, in the opposite direction from the place where his ordinance expert colleague said that the grenade was launched.

[Trembly]

We have some incredibly spatially-challenged Police Generals here.

"The shooter is likely an expert in using M79 launchers judging

from the accuracy of the round [landing inside the rally stage area]," he said.

Utter rubbish. Police Major-General Ronnakorn has either never been to the area, never seen a map of the area, or he is trying to fool people with this outrageously stupid lie. How big does this ordinance expert think that the blast radius of an M79 grenade is?

Paradorn put the attacks down to extremists who had joined the rally under the guise of being protesters

That would put the firing location approximately 500 meters from the blast area, in the opposite direction from the place where his ordinance expert colleague said that the grenade was launched.

*ordnance

[ShannonT]

Has anyone considered this scenario ..

According to Suthep, BigC is owned or backed by Thaksin. He may be right, because in almost every BigC there is a UDD / red shirt office.

The M79 was launched towards the front entrance of the BigC.

Why would Thaksin or the red shirts bomb their own BigC?

[fleeing]

I'm going to take the liberty of updating this thread with a new article from The Nation, presuming that is OK with the moderators.

Parking garage opposite Big C thought to be spot from where grenade fired

The M-79 grenade that hit an area in front of Big C Ratchdamri and killed three people on Sunday is believed to have been fired from the multi-storey car park of a department store across the street, a leading forensic expert said on Wednesday.

Dr Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunan said a spot on the ninth floor of the parking building of the Palladium Department Store was the most suspicious spot as the shooter could clearly see the area below. The department store is opposite and slightly to the right of the supermarket.

"The spot in question is in the open air and about 400 metres from the spot where the grenade landed. Moreover fresh cigarette butts were found there," she said.

The bomb attack on Sunday killed three people, two of them children and injured many others. None was taking part in the protest.

Pornthip, who is the Inspector General for Justice Ministry, inspected the area with Senator Paiboon Nitiwan, the chairman of Senate sub-committee on corruption prevention and examination monitoring use of authority's power and police. They inspected the areas from the seventh to tenth floors of the car park.

Forensic police were asked to examine the spot and collect the evidence to check whether the DNA matched that found on the lever of the grenade. It would be compared to other evidence collected in previous attacks including those that occurred during the 2010 political evidence.

Meanwhile Paiboon said the building appeared to be spot from which the grenade was fired as it matched the earlier police calculation that the grenade was fired from a building of no more than 10 storeys.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Parking-garage-opposite-Big-C-thought-to-be-spot-f-30227872.html

Edited February 26, 2014 by fleeing

[Trembly]

Has anyone considered this scenario ..

According to Suthep, BigC is owned or backed by Thaksin. He may be right, because in almost every BigC there is a UDD / red shirt office.

The M79 was launched towards the front entrance of the BigC.

Why would Thaksin or the red shirts bomb their own BigC?

Can you provide the link to Suthep saying that Big C is owned by / associated with Thaksin please?