northernjohn Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I was told that it's your own bank which determines the exchange rate and not the bank used for the withdrawal. Another 'expert'got it wrong! We always used to use Aeon when there was no ATM charge but now we withdraw with the cashier at Bangkok bank and there's no fee. Sent from my GT-I8552 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app What 'expert' told you this? I used a debit card for the same US bank on all three ATM's and got three different exchange rates. The difference was the bank of the ATM's, not the bank the withdrawal came from. Better find a new expert. Also, you should check the rate you are getting from Bangkok Bank cashier, it could be costing you more than the ATM fee you are avoiding. I used the same visa card it is a Canadian Visa card at the AEON and the Kasikorn? bank. The difference was about 23 cents more for the Kasikorn bank. On my bank statement it showed no charge for the Kasikorn? withdrawl but on the AEON it showed a $5 charge. I might add the actions were about 5 minutes apart. Using a Visa card I get there rate and they are probably current with the rate at all times. Using the 'ATM card I have to pay the banks rate. One of these day's I will do two transactions at the same bank one in the machine with my ATM and the other inside the bank with my Visa. I know it will cost me money on the ATM but I will be able to see if there is a difference in the exchange rate. I went into the bank of Siam the other day and got a large sum of money out of them with my Visa card. When I got the statement on my computer it showed a $5 service fee. I put most of the money in my bank account there and have an ATM card from them that does not charge me as long as I am at one of their machines. I also have an ATM card with the same bank and if I use it the service charge for it is $16.50. even if I only get 1,000 baht out of the machine. Needless to say I don't use it except in emergency. I doubt I could get the money out of a machine in one withdrawal but inside the bank it is just one withdrawal. A friend of mine tells me he can get 50,000 out of the Bank of Bangkok machine as he has an account there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchogra Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 We have an account in the US which we sometimes withdrew via the ATM in Thailand. Our daughter had just recently told us that each B20,000 we withdrew, we were charged about USD18. On the several occasions we used Aeon which the B150 was waived has also ceased since a couple of weeks ago. We also did use BBL, SCB, KBANK to withdraw where we were charged B150 a time, but I don't know if the USD18 was charged each time. I don't normally care about this kind of thing, but USD18 charge is almost equivalent to 2.5% when B20,000 (about USD700) is withdrawn....Thief they are! We'll not use the card to withdraw from out US account anymore, that's for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I was told that it's your own bank which determines the exchange rate and not the bank used for the withdrawal. Another 'expert'got it wrong! We always used to use Aeon when there was no ATM charge but now we withdraw with the cashier at Bangkok bank and there's no fee. Sent from my GT-I8552 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app What 'expert' told you this? I used a debit card for the same US bank on all three ATM's and got three different exchange rates. The difference was the bank of the ATM's, not the bank the withdrawal came from. Better find a new expert. Also, you should check the rate you are getting from Bangkok Bank cashier, it could be costing you more than the ATM fee you are avoiding. Actually none of the banks set the exchange rate. It is set by VISA and Mastercard themselves, and this has been well established on another TV forum also (the Jobs, economy, banking, business, investmentsforum). The reason the exchange you were offered were different at the different ATMs, was, as another posted explained, because the banks offered you their own exchange rate, in lieu of the de facto more preferable VISA or Mastercard (depending on what card you used) rate. This is the same scam many shops try to pull, offering you to "pay in your own currency" with your credit card. Always cancel that, and insist on paying in the local currency, so that you get the VISA/MC rate, rather that whatever rate the shop wants to use, obviously for their own benefit. Whenever you see anything about exchange rate or anything about non-local currency when paying with credit card, you are usually being ripped of. AEON did not offer you any exchange rate to use, so instead you got the VISA/MC rate. And this was preferable as you also found out. The OP has been told this before by referring hem to the ongoing topic about the various ATM /Bank fees which he obviously has not read, instead he presents himself as a mathematical genius and carries on without even taking the simple basics into consideration. Not a genius, but competent at basic math. If you want to double check the figures and math in my original post you'll find them correct, and I consider them easier to follow than an earlier 21 page post that diverged into numerous topics beyond simple ATM withdrawals. I also gave specific quantities, dates and times, which are in short supply in the 21 pages. The math jab was directed at people who fixated on ATM fees with no regard to exchange rates; in my examples the cost of the bad exchange rate was twice the cost of the ATM fee. These are clearly people disregarding simple basics. I haven't tried withdrawing money by taking an ATM card to the bank cashier as mizztraveler described in post 13, but I suspect she's getting an unfavorable exchange rate that more than exceeds the ATM fee she is avoiding. I admit I was unaware the bank ATM exchange rate was an option that can be declined without canceling the transaction. I've been using Aeon since shortly after the 150 baht ATM fee was introduced and this was the first time I've seen the exchange rate offer. I still haven't verified that this is an option I can decline and continue with the transaction, but I have no reason to doubt the posters who wrote it can be done. So at worst I have identified the fact that Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial have higher ATM fees than Aeon and will give customers painfully bad exchange rates if allowed to do so, and supported the information with specific examples and quantities. By the way, you wrote: " I am more or less `used to` the idea that I am the product, and that there are only a few small ways in which one can play the system just to keep the `damage` to a minimum." I disagree, I think being informed can lead to significant savings. As explained, there is a factor of three difference in ATM costs between making withdrawals the smart way and doing it less smart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernjohn Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 We have an account in the US which we sometimes withdrew via the ATM in Thailand. Our daughter had just recently told us that each B20,000 we withdrew, we were charged about USD18. On the several occasions we used Aeon which the B150 was waived has also ceased since a couple of weeks ago. We also did use BBL, SCB, KBANK to withdraw where we were charged B150 a time, but I don't know if the USD18 was charged each time. I don't normally care about this kind of thing, but USD18 charge is almost equivalent to 2.5% when B20,000 (about USD700) is withdrawn....Thief they are! We'll not use the card to withdraw from out US account anymore, that's for sure! What kind of card. I have a Visa and a ATM card with the same bank CIBC in Canada. It is a $16.50 service charge on the ATM card and a $5 service charge on the visa card. Plus the Visa card I can get a heck of a lot more. The ATM card has a $2,000 Canadian a day limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/index.html Those are handy. I can get the same info from Yahoo, but it takes more clicks. Also, as indicated, exchange rates will eventually scroll by on Bloomberg if you have the time to wait. Calculating the true cost of an ATM withdrawal without exchange rate information is impossible. A lot of banks and money exchange places will prominently advertise that they have low fees or no fees and then gouge the customer with an unfavorable exchange rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolgeoff Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 use a thai bank acc and it only cost 20 baht or 10 I think.a foreign acc cost loads simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 We have an account in the US which we sometimes withdrew via the ATM in Thailand. Our daughter had just recently told us that each B20,000 we withdrew, we were charged about USD18. On the several occasions we used Aeon which the B150 was waived has also ceased since a couple of weeks ago. We also did use BBL, SCB, KBANK to withdraw where we were charged B150 a time, but I don't know if the USD18 was charged each time. I don't normally care about this kind of thing, but USD18 charge is almost equivalent to 2.5% when B20,000 (about USD700) is withdrawn....Thief they are! We'll not use the card to withdraw from out US account anymore, that's for sure! Are you sure of this? There are fees for transferring money between international bank accounts that make the transfer uneconomical unless you are transferring large sums, much more than ATM withdrawals. However I've never been hit with an $18 fee for an international ATM withdrawal. If your bank is really doing this you need to find a new bank. As I indicated in the original post, the total cost for my 15000 baht withdrawal using Aeon was $6.80, most of which came from the 150 baht ATM fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchogra Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 We have an account in the US which we sometimes withdrew via the ATM in Thailand. Our daughter had just recently told us that each B20,000 we withdrew, we were charged about USD18. On the several occasions we used Aeon which the B150 was waived has also ceased since a couple of weeks ago. We also did use BBL, SCB, KBANK to withdraw where we were charged B150 a time, but I don't know if the USD18 was charged each time. I don't normally care about this kind of thing, but USD18 charge is almost equivalent to 2.5% when B20,000 (about USD700) is withdrawn....Thief they are! We'll not use the card to withdraw from out US account anymore, that's for sure! What kind of card. I have a Visa and a ATM card with the same bank CIBC in Canada. It is a $16.50 service charge on the ATM card and a $5 service charge on the visa card. Plus the Visa card I can get a heck of a lot more. The ATM card has a $2,000 Canadian a day limit. It's a Visa card from Morgan Chase. Seems you are charged about the same rate! Our other accounts, we don't touch. This particular one we sometimes use are petty cash our kids give to their mother....filial obligations, just like their parents who did the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchogra Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 We have an account in the US which we sometimes withdrew via the ATM in Thailand. Our daughter had just recently told us that each B20,000 we withdrew, we were charged about USD18. On the several occasions we used Aeon which the B150 was waived has also ceased since a couple of weeks ago. We also did use BBL, SCB, KBANK to withdraw where we were charged B150 a time, but I don't know if the USD18 was charged each time. I don't normally care about this kind of thing, but USD18 charge is almost equivalent to 2.5% when B20,000 (about USD700) is withdrawn....Thief they are! We'll not use the card to withdraw from out US account anymore, that's for sure! Are you sure of this? There are fees for transferring money between international bank accounts that make the transfer uneconomical unless you are transferring large sums, much more than ATM withdrawals. However I've never been hit with an $18 fee for an international ATM withdrawal. If your bank is really doing this you need to find a new bank. As I indicated in the original post, the total cost for my 15000 baht withdrawal using Aeon was $6.80, most of which came from the 150 baht ATM fee. Yes, I'm sure. Our daughter just checked online a couple of weeks ago. I have yet to hear people stating Aeon is charging the B150 fee like the other banks do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 We have an account in the US which we sometimes withdrew via the ATM in Thailand. Our daughter had just recently told us that each B20,000 we withdrew, we were charged about USD18. On the several occasions we used Aeon which the B150 was waived has also ceased since a couple of weeks ago. We also did use BBL, SCB, KBANK to withdraw where we were charged B150 a time, but I don't know if the USD18 was charged each time. I don't normally care about this kind of thing, but USD18 charge is almost equivalent to 2.5% when B20,000 (about USD700) is withdrawn....Thief they are! We'll not use the card to withdraw from out US account anymore, that's for sure! Are you sure of this? There are fees for transferring money between international bank accounts that make the transfer uneconomical unless you are transferring large sums, much more than ATM withdrawals. However I've never been hit with an $18 fee for an international ATM withdrawal. If your bank is really doing this you need to find a new bank. As I indicated in the original post, the total cost for my 15000 baht withdrawal using Aeon was $6.80, most of which came from the 150 baht ATM fee. Yes, I'm sure. Our daughter just checked online a couple of weeks ago. I have yet to hear people stating Aeon is charging the B150 fee like the other banks do! Is your $18 fee for an ATM card or a credit card? I don't use credit cards because I've heard too many warnings about about the cost, which is usually considered a credit card advance. But since I don't use them, I don't know the details. If the charge is for an ATM card which takes money from an adequately funded account, I advise contacting your bank to learn why they charge so much, or shopping around for a new bank. Aeon charged me 150 baht on Sunday, and from what I've read in this forum it's charging everyone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/index.html Those are handy. I can get the same info from Yahoo, but it takes more clicks. Also, as indicated, exchange rates will eventually scroll by on Bloomberg if you have the time to wait. Calculating the true cost of an ATM withdrawal without exchange rate information is impossible. A lot of banks and money exchange places will prominently advertise that they have low fees or no fees and then gouge the customer with an unfavorable exchange rate. I don't know about Mastercard, but Visa imposed a mandatory exchange rate for its members because they were holding on to the paper waiting for the most advantageous rate to them before submitting it to Visa's Settlement and Clearing system. Customers were spending money at one rate and then found themselves being charged at a much higher one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchogra Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 We have an account in the US which we sometimes withdrew via the ATM in Thailand. Our daughter had just recently told us that each B20,000 we withdrew, we were charged about USD18. On the several occasions we used Aeon which the B150 was waived has also ceased since a couple of weeks ago. We also did use BBL, SCB, KBANK to withdraw where we were charged B150 a time, but I don't know if the USD18 was charged each time. I don't normally care about this kind of thing, but USD18 charge is almost equivalent to 2.5% when B20,000 (about USD700) is withdrawn....Thief they are! We'll not use the card to withdraw from out US account anymore, that's for sure! Are you sure of this? There are fees for transferring money between international bank accounts that make the transfer uneconomical unless you are transferring large sums, much more than ATM withdrawals. However I've never been hit with an $18 fee for an international ATM withdrawal. If your bank is really doing this you need to find a new bank. As I indicated in the original post, the total cost for my 15000 baht withdrawal using Aeon was $6.80, most of which came from the 150 baht ATM fee. Yes, I'm sure. Our daughter just checked online a couple of weeks ago. I have yet to hear people stating Aeon is charging the B150 fee like the other banks do! Is your $18 fee for an ATM card or a credit card? I don't use credit cards because I've heard too many warnings about about the cost, which is usually considered a credit card advance. But since I don't use them, I don't know the details. If the charge is for an ATM card which takes money from an adequately funded account, I advise contacting your bank to learn why they charge so much, or shopping around for a new bank. Aeon charged me 150 baht on Sunday, and from what I've read in this forum it's charging everyone now. heybruce, it's a Visa card that you can use the ATM to withdraw money! My wife has possesion of it and all other cards. I get an "allowance" ever since I committed the cardinal sin. But, since we've been married so long, big expenditures like buying a house or a car, I buy and 'we' pay! Yes, indeed, our daughter is looking into ING in the US for an alternative! If you ask me, our daughter being a VP at the bank is overpaid comparing to what I did for the corp that I worked in. The trouble then was all my PhD bosses were playing more politics than using what they were trained for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) On Monday the 3rd I withdrew 10,000 baht from a Kasikorn Bank ATM using my US Fidelity ATM Debit/Visa... My Fidelity brokerage history shows a debit of $313.30 and a credit of $5.54 (Fidelity refunded the 180B ATM fees).. So 10K baht cost me $307.76 - That converts to an exchange rate of ~ 32.49 B/$ Here are screen shots of that days Kasikorn Bank exchange and Yahoo - Seems the rate I got was good and is set in the US somewhere not by Kasikorn... Edited March 4, 2014 by sfokevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernjohn Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 does any one know for sure if the bank who's machine you use sets the exchange rate or the bank you are withdrawing it from if you use an ATM card or iv a Visa or Master Charge card do they set the rate. I don't need figures just who sets the rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stament Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 For Brits this might be helpful, a clarity credit card from Halifax doesn't incur any FX transaction fees which are typically c3%. Also Halifax won't charge you any withdrawal fee. Furthermore, if you pre-load it with cash (which again is free unlike some others) then you won't be charged a fee. From what I can gather the only fee you will be charged is a fee by the ATM and only then if they advise you, i.e. withdrawal fee of 150 baht. Not sure I still understand if the mastercard FX % is charged or the 3% I have stated above is waived. I'll leave that to the more informed on the forum to advise. However, looks like a good deal compared to what others are stating. http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-travel-money Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 does any one know for sure if the bank who's machine you use sets the exchange rate or the bank you are withdrawing it from if you use an ATM card or iv a Visa or Master Charge card do they set the rate. I don't need figures just who sets the rate. According to post #27 Visa and Mastercard set their own rate. I don't know if banks use this rate for ATM cards or use some other rate. I read long ago that banks use some end of day global exchange rate to settle international transactions between banks. Apparently banks will use this rate for ATM withdrawals or give you the option of using a less favorable 'bank' rate. When Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial ATM's presented screens offering the bank exchange rate I got the impression this was the only rate I could use at these ATM's, which is why I canceled the transactions. In addition banks can add fees and other charges; the ATM fees in Thailand are well known, you can't know what other charges your home country bank charges unless you read the fine print of your agreement with them. All this is tedious, and you have to rely on banks to fully disclose all pertinent information in comprehensible terms. That's why I initiated then canceled two ATM withdrawals on Feb 1 and a completed ATM withdrawal on Feb 2, all using the same bank ATM debit card, and compared the result. According to information on this and other threads if I had declined the Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial bank rates and proceeded with the transaction I would have received the same rate as I received at Aeon, the only difference would have been a 180 baht ATM charge from Bangkok and Siam vs the 150 baht charge from Aeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcon Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Heybruce Thanks for research and imput re ATM fees, I am in Chaing Mai at the moment And will be heading to Siam TV tomorrow Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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