Thailand must be careful what it wishes for

[awakewarrior]

What pandora box? The world knows and see how Thailand really is already.

Perhaps Thailand needs the pandora box opended a little

further by the UN so they can start to have open and free discussions about

matters that need to be freely talked about. How about to finally join the modern world

& rid itself of old baggage and draconian laws used

to silence hundreds of people a year here?

[Thai at Heart]

PREM-R, on 03 Mar 2014 - 10:27, said:

Really rather scary for for Suthep if the UN get involved, imagine the situation when Ban asks Suthep, "Well what is it that you actually want from all this?" I suspect the usual reply from Suthep, "Reform" would be met with " What reforms do you have in mind, Mr. Suthep?". To which the reply is silence.

I doubt about the silence.

Anyway you can read Sutherp's answer as to what reforms he wants:

Point 1: An electoral system free from vote buying

Point 2: Effective measures to end corruption

Point 3: People should have the power to remove politicians and administrative power should be decentralised by electing provincial governors

Point 4: A police reform, so that the police force would "truly belong to the people" and perform their duties under the command of the elected governor of their respective province

Point 5: A bureaucracy reform

Point 6: Solving the problems inherent in education, social affairs, public health and transport, an economic system free of monopoly. Investment in transport infrastructure as answer to the country’s needs, not to politicians’.

a. There are already draconian rules to sanction vote buying

b. There are already laws and rules to sanction corruption. Beyond jail, what othe threat can they come up with

c. Can be done, why can't this be achieved through the parliament. Why haven't the democrats as a party ever raised this issue? What will the democrats do if PTP win a governors election in the South one day?

d. Can be done through parliament.

e. Fluff. Achieve what, Massive ongoing process that can't be achieved in a couple of years

f. Massive ongoing process that can't be achieved in a couple of year.s

All these issues need long term steel for the fight. And when someone like Suthep moans about corruption, well, hypocrisy comes first to mind.

Why does it need to dissolve the democratic parliamentary system to reform the police? The issue is not the reform, it is that the Thai system continues to SELECTIVELY ENFORCE the laws and regulations, and no amount of rejoiggin the system will solve that problem as long as the legal justice system is made independent.

[drand11]

Yingluk is smart. She knows the UN will never side w/ the Suthep concept of reform since it has alterior motives. UN is very experienced w/ organizing for reform while maintaining the Democratic process. Smart move Ms Yingluk!

[Thai at Heart]

Yingluk is smart. She knows the UN will never side w/ the Suthep concept of reform since it has alterior motives. UN is very experienced w/ organizing for reform while maintaining the Democratic process. Smart move Ms Yingluk!

Of course it is. The UN knows that planning to remove democracy temporarily is always tied closely to the chance that it will be removed indefinitely. Why anyone would trust Suthep about this, god knows.

[Benmart]

Unfortunately, for Thailand, you open a "Pandora's Box" when you try to get involved in world affairs. If your economy relies on foreign trade and investment, like it or not, "The World" is involved.

"Pandora's Box" "world affairs" So many comments could be made on these four words. I don't think it really matters in the end. It's the people that will be screwed.

Nothing as refreshing as a large bottle of optimism.

[Benmart]

This Thai opinion piece is poorly written tripe.

Tripe is relished by some groups. I won't partake at this sitting, and i won't deny the dish to be consumed by others.

[rubl]

That'll be the day the UN assists an old guard elite of a country in chaos to reinforce feudal institutions and systems after the feudalists used violence to interfere in a legitimate election in order to stop parliamentary democracy. The UN would need to enter Thailand with the agreement of all parties who would need to agree in advance to accept mediation or the presence of the UN in the country, which would never happen even if one assumes the UN were interested or prepared to enter the conflict, which it positively is not prepared or willing to do.

The seminal aspect of Surapong's contact with the UN is that he wants to speak with the five governments that comprise the Security Council to apprise them of the current trends in Thailand and to seek their understanding. The UNSC however is a bit busy at the moment. The OP might do better to ask Asean why they remain silent and in hiding.

You assume too much, my dear chap. Even if 'old guard elite', 'feudal institutions' and whatever confusing terms, the involvement of the UN could and should start with a few rules for the process, like 'binding advises and recommendations'. Take it or leave it and no going back on it. I'm afraid that would mean an end to the UN involvement whether requested by Surapong or Suthep initially.

As for ASEAN, well there seems to be a rather strict non-interference policy. Maybe because a few of them might have even more to hide

I'm well aware of Asean's self-described policy of "non-interference" in the affairs of other member states, which the OP should also know is one central factor that caused Surapong to approach the UN. Further, if the UN could impose or extract from conflicting sides "binding advises [sic] and recommendations" it would be a supranational world government, which it certainly and thankfully isn't.

Surapong wants to present his case to the five governments that comprise the permanent members of the Security Council. He knows he's likely to find somewhat sympathetic ears there, which is what the OP fears most. The P-5 want a stable SE Asia which presently means a settled down and stable Thailand. Trouble is, the P-5 may have to wait a while for that to occur.

Unfortunately those '5' at times care more about stability than how that stability is achieved. Poor Thailand.

[ppmacready]

PREM-R, on 03 Mar 2014 - 10:27, said:

Really rather scary for for Suthep if the UN get involved, imagine the situation when Ban asks Suthep, "Well what is it that you actually want from all this?" I suspect the usual reply from Suthep, "Reform" would be met with " What reforms do you have in mind, Mr. Suthep?". To which the reply is silence.

I doubt about the silence.

Anyway you can read Sutherp's answer as to what reforms he wants:

Point 1: An electoral system free from vote buying

Point 2: Effective measures to end corruption

Point 3: People should have the power to remove politicians and administrative power should be decentralised by electing provincial governors

Point 4: A police reform, so that the police force would "truly belong to the people" and perform their duties under the command of the elected governor of their respective province

Point 5: A bureaucracy reform

Point 6: Solving the problems inherent in education, social affairs, public health and transport, an economic system free of monopoly. Investment in transport infrastructure as answer to the country’s needs, not to politicians’.

They can't even get the kids to wear crash helmets!

[maggiemae]

This Thai opinion piece is poorly written tripe.

It is an opinion and the writer is entitled to it. You may consider it tripe. but again, that is your opinion and you are also entitled to it. However, only the Thaksinistas on this forum would agree with you. Most of us wouldn't. My opinion of course, but again, I am entitled to it just as you are to yours.

[maggiemae]

Yingluk is smart. She knows the UN will never side w/ the Suthep concept of reform since it has alterior motives. UN is very experienced w/ organizing for reform while maintaining the Democratic process. Smart move Ms Yingluk!

If you think Yingluk is smart, then you do not know what stupidity is. I feel sorry for you.

[visionchaser45]

I would hardly call being on the verge of civil war a "low intensity dispute." Inviting the UN is a smart move on the part of the government, which is probably why an article like this is printed by The Nation.

[visionchaser45]

Yingluk is smart. She knows the UN will never side w/ the Suthep concept of reform since it has alterior motives. UN is very experienced w/ organizing for reform while maintaining the Democratic process. Smart move Ms Yingluk!

If you think Yingluk is smart, then you do not know what stupidity is. I feel sorry for you.

And if you think Suthep is intelligent, you have obviously confused the terms intelligent and moronic.

[Thai at Heart]

Yingluk is smart. She knows the UN will never side w/ the Suthep concept of reform since it has alterior motives. UN is very experienced w/ organizing for reform while maintaining the Democratic process. Smart move Ms Yingluk!

If you think Yingluk is smart, then you do not know what stupidity is. I feel sorry for you.

When it comes to this sort of down and dirty corrupt stuff, experience counts for a lot.

Throw on a lot of thai female intuition, and I wouldn't fancy outsmarting her when it came to pocket money let alone this type of stuff.

[Publicus]

Yingluk is smart. She knows the UN will never side w/ the Suthep concept of reform since it has alterior motives. UN is very experienced w/ organizing for reform while maintaining the Democratic process. Smart move Ms Yingluk!

If you think Yingluk is smart, then you do not know what stupidity is. I feel sorry for you.

Suthep and his bosses are shutdown and on their <deleted> because they underestimated YS and her team from the outset and still don't know what happened to their stillborn insurrection that the masses were supposed to have flocked to by the millions and millions and which was supposed to have precipitated a military coup.

The yellows here who miss the fact a gang of bumblers such as Suthep and his backers have made Chalerm and Surapong look like strategic and tactical geniuses will inevitably continue to fumble along on their long march of mistakes.

The feudalists continue to write the constitutions, to make the laws and the rules but YS has the better team of advisors and the popular support the Thai old guard oligarchs and autocrats cannot possibly muster.

You who underestimate PTP and the lessons its principals have learned over the past 8 years will continue to miss the obvious reality that this is a long and tough unfolding struggle. Being oblivious means you exacerbate it. .

Edited March 3, 2014 by Publicus

[Thai at Heart]

Yingluk is smart. She knows the UN will never side w/ the Suthep concept of reform since it has alterior motives. UN is very experienced w/ organizing for reform while maintaining the Democratic process. Smart move Ms Yingluk!

If you think Yingluk is smart, then you do not know what stupidity is. I feel sorry for you.

Suthep and his bosses are shutdown and on their <deleted> because they underestimated YS and her team from the outset and still don't know what happened to their stillborn insurrection that the masses were supposed to have flocked to by the millions and millions and which was supposed to have precipitated a military coup.

The yellows here who miss the fact a gang of bumblers such as Suthep and his backers have made Chalerm and Surapong look like strategic and tactical geniuses will inevitably continue to fumble along on their long march of mistakes.

The feudalists continue to write the constitutions, to make the laws and the rules but YS has the better team of advisors and the popular support the Thai old guard oligarchs and autocrats cannot possibly muster.

You who underestimate PTP and the lessons its principals have learned over the past 8 years will continue to miss the obvious reality that this is a long and tough unfolding struggle. Being oblivious means you exacerbate it. .

This is why they mustn't let this separatist nonsense get a life if its own. Yingluck is very close to seeing these guys off.

Its neck and neck

[willyumiii]

I don't think Farang understand Thai's problem, let alone the Korean.

And most Thais do not understand the problems of Thailand.

If they had a clue as to what is going on, they would stop it.

"Mai pen rai"

"don't think about it"

"where is my money?""

Edited March 4, 2014 by willyumiii

[arthurboy]

PREM-R, on 03 Mar 2014 - 10:27, said:

Really rather scary for for Suthep if the UN get involved, imagine the situation when Ban asks Suthep, "Well what is it that you actually want from all this?" I suspect the usual reply from Suthep, "Reform" would be met with " What reforms do you have in mind, Mr. Suthep?". To which the reply is silence.

I doubt about the silence.

Anyway you can read Sutherp's answer as to what reforms he wants:

Point 1: An electoral system free from vote buying

Point 2: Effective measures to end corruption

Point 3: People should have the power to remove politicians and administrative power should be decentralised by electing provincial governors

Point 4: A police reform, so that the police force would "truly belong to the people" and perform their duties under the command of the elected governor of their respective province

Point 5: A bureaucracy reform

Point 6: Solving the problems inherent in education, social affairs, public health and transport, an economic system free of monopoly. Investment in transport infrastructure as answer to the country’s needs, not to politicians’.

The point by point reform plan you lay out is laudable and should be the goal of any government.

Over many years, successive governments have promised reform - in some form or another - as urgent or necessary if Thailand and her people are to move forward and develop.

Multiple government agencies have existed for decades to manage all that you cite above; however, little - if any - real progress has been made over this time due to the pervasive spectre of corruption and the self-serving morality - if you can call it morality - of those in control.

I am not just talking about government and their ministers here but also pointing to the civil servants and authorities whose job it is to ensure that the country progresses and that fairness and opportunity are available for all, irrespective of their socio-economic status.

And therein lies the problem.

Reform is very possible, but only if those with power and influence are willing to give up their corrupt practices and forsake their under the table income for the future of the country.

As corruption is institutionalized and operates at every level in Thai society, I'd be very interested to know how Suthep intends to change the collective mind set that has defined - sadly - Thailand for many years.