Street food/food poisoning/sanitation

[jaideeguy]

Yeah, I know that there was just a thread on street food, but mostly dedicated to the chemicals and additives, but barely mentioning the sanitation issue.

Last night I had to rush my wife and daughter to the hospital to get 1st aid for food poisoning and while this is fresh in my mind, I thought that I would warn all who think that their stomachs are made of cast iron and can digest all the street food available here, there is a terrible risk of food poisoning especially in this hot weather.

I know exactly what the culprit was in our last episode......................BBQ Issan sausage, which used to be one of my favorites. Three nights ago the wife bought some and I was the only one who declined eating them, as I had just made some salmon steaks and didn't want to chance it on 'OPF' [other peoples food] when I had some properly prepared food.

After a couple of decades, I now know the conditions of the making and the total disrespect of the rules of sanitation that OPF is.

a few common examples that I've witnessed are..........

using the same cutting surface between meats without washing

using older meats that are bought a discount from meat vendors at the end of the day.

not observing the correct temps that foods should be kept at.............not room temperature.

not washing hands while handling foods

using the same filthy water in a bowl to wash all utensils and dishes

and I'm sure there are more rules that they break.

Meanwhile, especially during the hot season, I'm boycotting OPF!!

[worgeordie]

Sausages, Thai or otherwise, full of mystery meats, yes everyone should be very careful

especially as the weather is warming up,best just to eat freshly made food if eating on

the street, saying that all my time here i have only had food poisoning once, and that was

when i first arrived here, fried rice with seafood !, knew at the time maybe i should not eat

it,but hunger took over,and will never forget the results the next morning.

Just use common sense, buy only freshly cooked food,and does the vendor and equipment

look clean,don't take chances as you could end up VERY ill.

regards Worgeordie

[Gsxrnz]

It doesn't matter where you eat in Thailand - The biggest restaurant or the smallest street stall, the hygiene conditions the food is prepared in and the supply chain of the food from farm to restaurant is abysmal (sorry for the understatement).

But, you have to eat, so take the usual precautions and at least try and buy/eat at the cleanest "looking" places. It doesn't really help, but you will feel as though you're at least trying.

Um....was at a big mall recently considering a big brand burger. Was inspecting the menu and salivating over a whopper burger (that's a giveaway) when I noticed Somchai in the food assembly area with his thumb up his nose. He then promptly gathered a bun, slapped on a pattie etc. and then the top bun. All with no gloves.

Even training provided by the big brands didn't stop his thumb getting up his nose, so I would second guess that the priority at his last toilet visit was popping a pimple and greasing his hair - as opposed to washing his hands.

[eyecatcher]

Another rule of thumb I have.

Never buy grilled chicken from the street stalls after 3pm.

If its not a high turnover cart then you may be choosing chicken that has been in the sun and swarming with flies since 8am.

Since I got f.p from roadside chicken years ago I am quite choosy about where I buy from and the time of day.

[watcharacters]

Another rule of thumb I have.

Never buy grilled chicken from the street stalls after 3pm.

If its not a high turnover cart then you may be choosing chicken that has been in the sun and swarming with flies since 8am.

Since I got f.p from roadside chicken years ago I am quite choosy about where I buy from and the time of day.

Or get there early and get yesterday's fresh food today...

[mania]

Sorry to hear about your wife & daughter & hope they recover quickly.

I never knew it could take 3 days for symptoms to show. I always assumed it would be

the same night. But looking online I see it can actually take even longer.

Hope they get well soon

[northernjohn]

It doesn't matter where you eat in Thailand - The biggest restaurant or the smallest street stall, the hygiene conditions the food is prepared in and the supply chain of the food from farm to restaurant is abysmal (sorry for the understatement).

But, you have to eat, so take the usual precautions and at least try and buy/eat at the cleanest "looking" places. It doesn't really help, but you will feel as though you're at least trying.

Um....was at a big mall recently considering a big brand burger. Was inspecting the menu and salivating over a whopper burger (that's a giveaway) when I noticed Somchai in the food assembly area with his thumb up his nose. He then promptly gathered a bun, slapped on a pattie etc. and then the top bun. All with no gloves.

Even training provided by the big brands didn't stop his thumb getting up his nose, so I would second guess that the priority at his last toilet visit was popping a pimple and greasing his hair - as opposed to washing his hands.

Agreed it doesn't make a lot of difference. The thing is with a food cart you can see what is happening where as in a restaurant how many people inspect the kitchen. Even in a clean kitchen their is no guarantee of personal hygiene being enforced.

One other thing to look at is we are foreigners from supposedly locations with better hygiene in the restaurants. The Thai people have been eating this stuff for centuries and probably have a better tolerance to some of the things that we get sick on.

I say supposedly cleaner. I was involved in the states with the remodeling of several kitchens in well known restaurants. The hygiene level was poor and that is being generous. How ever the dining rooms were very nice.

[mania]

I say supposedly cleaner. I was involved in the states with the remodeling of several kitchens in well known restaurants. The hygiene level was poor and that is being generous. How ever the dining rooms were very nice.

I think it was Chris Rock who use to joke that he never eats at any Chinese restaurants in the States because he notes Chinese restaurants never have any slop to throw away

[alfalfa19]

I agree with what you say about street food. Yet, I have eaten at street vendors' establishments countless times, and never been taken ill. The two times I did get violently ill from a food borne illness were both at hotel buffets, one was the Diana Inn in Pattaya, and I can't remember the other. First time, I just suffered for 24 hours, but the second time I knew about ciprot, I took one, and was pretty much functional within 2 hours.

[kizz06]

This is my favorite food in Thailand.

[kizz06]

And probably the safest food in Thailand.

[mizztraveller]

I've never had food poisoning (touch wood!) but my husband and daughter did, at my niece's wedding at a very expensive 5*, well known and expensive hotel in the UK. In fact more than half the guests suffered. It seems that that nowhere can be trusted!

Sent from my GT-I8552 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cnxforever]

3 days is long time to come down with "food poisoning".

And one can never be sure what it was that caused the illness unless the items in question are analyzed. - A fly sitting down laying eggs on a food item "ready to eat" (cooked or uncooked) can cause severe illness.

So can food items "ready to eat" touched with contaminated bare hands - or covered with water / ice contaminated with E.coli - the most common contamination when it comes to water / ice for human consumtion.

As a rule of thumb - if one is not sure of the source - cook it again - most bacteria is killed by exposing the food in question to a temperature of above 65 C. If it's raw food - wash it.

Any food exposed to the so called "Danger zone" between 5-65 C for too long is dangerous - and one usually does not know for how long the items in question have been in this danger zone if from a food stall or from a market.

Bacteria grows rapidly when exposed to the danger zone. Cold food should be cold (1-5 C) and hot food hot (above 65 C).

Most Asians are used to "lukewarm food" often exposed for hours to the danger zone - in the worst temperatures possible where bacteria thrives.

Anything exposed to the "danger zone" for more than 4 hours is extremely dangerous and should be discarded.

But the number one rule is - if you are not sure that food items have been stored at proper temperatures and might have been exposed to the "danger zone" for too long - do not eat it!

If the food still looks good - either heat it up which will kill the bacteria - or check - meat for example - for strange color, smell - and dispose if not sure!

[Chiengmaijoe]

This is my favorite food in Thailand.

Don't throw the box away, there's more nutrition in that than the contents.

[junglechef]

The buffets can be the worst as they don't keep the food at proper temps but often the heating element underneath is not even on. If one eats cooked to order food (stir-fry is a good example) that you can see them cooking and see how the food is stored it a better bet. I often pretend I don't fully understand what they have and ask threw sign language, as not to cause them to lose face, to see my choices and hence can determine if the meats precooked and on ice etc. Sorry to hear of the unfortunate illness in your family jaideeguy but I also love but avoid all sausage and UFOs (unidentifiable fried objects) here.

[belg]

just think like this: street food = animals that died at farm/factory, normally should be destroyed, but someone is selling them on the cheap and ending up in your bowl of whatever... never tought about those 5-10 baht meat sticks or lunches of 30 baht ?

roadkill also comes to mind...anything that can make a buck

they do not care if you do not come back, plenty of other hungry sheep

some people go to small restaurant, see rats flee out of the place, cockroaches on the walls, and still enter....

[jaideeguy]

I include the public markets with my boycott of OPF, as their foods are prepared at home [who knows how or when] and delivered to the market to sit at room temperatures until it is sold [or saved for the next day]...............probably the worse scenario for foods.

[mmh8]

I'll add to your list op, what about han gking uncooked meat over the cooked meats and fish. yep I see it and I stopped eating there. it was lovly food to, I think the reheating of the meat to make a nam dog moo may kill off most backteria, as will chucking the fish on the grill, but its ain';t worth the risk of food poising and worse. this is a very popular little place but no idea how one goes about getting them to understand basic food hygiene practise

[jaideeguy]

A short 1 day course on basic safe food handling should be a requirement for anyone selling food and certificate posted in view of the public.

I know of a large food processing factory that ran for many years without a sanitation inspection..............won't mention any names.

[PostmanPat]

It amazes me that people are amazed about getting food poisoning or upset stomachs from street food in Chiang Mai. In ten years here I ve never had a problem with generic stomach food related disorders.

Why? because although I regularly eat Thai food in restaurants, noodle bars, chicken & rice joints, I never, ever eat "street food" which has been happily poisoning itself in the hot sun all afternoon. I live at Nongkwai (Hangdong end of town) and within five minutes of my place there are two "evening markets". Problem is, said markets begin setting up at lunchtime, at the hottest time of the day, and lots of stuff, especially those tempting Northern Sausages sit inside a glass case right in the heat of the day for several hours at a time!

In my ten years, my Thai partner, who is theoretically genetically built to consume the very spicy Thai snacks has had food poisoning or upset stomach on average at least once per annum. Me? Never (touch wood!) so far ! I wonder why?!

[NCFC]

At street food stalls check if you can see an ice box around where they are storing their uncooked products. If they do that then fine, if you don't see one then buyer beware.

[monkey4u]

After 10 years in Thailand, the only places I have been sick from the food is 1 large hotel in Sukhumvit 11 and my neighbor.

Street food sells quick so no long term storing.

Unless you eat at some out of the way food stall

[4u2mad]

I agree with what you say about street food. Yet, I have eaten at street vendors' establishments countless times, and never been taken ill. The two times I did get violently ill from a food borne illness were both at hotel buffets, one was the Diana Inn in Pattaya, and I can't remember the other. First time, I just suffered for 24 hours, but the second time I knew about ciprot, I took one, and was pretty much functional within 2 hours.

Could it have been the buffet at Lek hotel Beach Road? Spent two days with my head in a bucket sitting on the throne. Certainly an efficient weight loss program.

[PostmanPat]

After 10 years in Thailand, the only places I have been sick from the food is 1 large hotel in Sukhumvit 11 and my neighbor.

Street food sells quick so no long term storing.

Unless you eat at some out of the way food stall

Yeh. Right. Sure.......You have more faith than me Mr. Monkey! Good luck !

[techboy]

People also get food poisoning from restaurant food- anywhere in the world. Your unfortunate experience does not define a "terrible risk." For fifteen years I have been eating street cart food here and it is as a rule fresh and delicious. I have never become ill.

And:

"using the same cutting surface between meats without washing"

- Does not mean that the surface is contaminated with a dangerous level of infectious bacteria? No.

"using older meats that are bought a discount from meat vendors at the end of the day."

You have "witnessed" this? I have "witnessed" vendors that I know purchasing fresh food at the market shortly before opening- have even accompanied them to the market.

"not observing the correct temps that foods should be kept at.............not room temperature." You see them where they are selling food from the carts. How many have you "witnessed" incorrectly storing food when they get home? Saving too old food for subsequent sale?

"not washing hands while handling foods"

I "witness" many vendors using plastic bags to cover their hands. Also simply because you do not see the food preparer wash his hands before preparing your food does not mean that he has not cleaned his hands.

"using the same filthy water in a bowl to wash all utensils and dishes"

Is the water "filthy?" They use the same water to wash lots of dishes but it is from a public water source. Certainly running water is rarely available but I have seen some add soap to the cleaning basin. They make due with what they have and many supply plastic utensils and disposable chopsticks.

"and I'm sure there are more rules that they break."

I am sure there are many laws regarding serving food- some of them prudent and some of them frivolous- Same with restaurants.

The bottom line is that food poisoning from street carts is not a "terrible risk." Furthermore you have cited items which you could not possibly have "witnessed" unless you followed the vendors to their residences and the markets and took copious notes on their activities and food purchasing schedules per item. You're family suffered an unfortunate incident but this is not justification for your attack on a community of people who typically provide fresh and delicious food at a good price.

[Sheryl]

There is a huge difference between street vendor food cooked to order for you (like many noodle stalls) and the food that is already prepared and sitting out. The former is as safe as restaurant food (maybe more so since you can see what they are doing....) while the latter does carry a risk especially in the hot season. If you must buy food that was already prepared, try to do so when the stall first sets up, before it has been sitting out for long.

[FolkGuitar]

First, let me say that I'm sorry to hear about your family, and I hope they recover quickly and well.

Second, food poisoning isn't confined to street food. A person can contract it virtually anywhere. The only time I had an actual case of food poisoning (rather than the occasional case of G.I. Blues,) was when I ate the Sunday Buffet at the Oriental in Bangkok many years ago, at the time, the ONLY 5-star rated hotel in Thailand.

I eat street food every day. I have for the past 55 years (since I was old enough to carry money and walk the streets alone.) I've gotten a case of the Trots now and then, when I didn't know which end of me to point towards the toilet first, but after 25 different countries I couldn't say it was worse or happens more often in Thailand than in the US. We do need to be a bit rational about which vendor we purchase from, but it's certainly not going to put me off eating street foods. They add to life's rich pageant.

[jaideeguy]

FYI techboy...................I have witnessed all of the above as my wife has been involved in the food vendor business for generations and is currently involved, but she knows the rules. The basic rules apply everywhere in the world and especially here in the tropics. Not bashing Thais, but bashing dangerous ignorance...............

[Evolare]

food poisoning from streetfood in 8 years have not happend to me once but two times at nice resturants Wildfire in Phulket was knocked out for 4days and then sushi from fuji at MBK.

And i eat street food several times per week but have my places and always order without additives like MSG and crap.

[mania]

If I didn't have street food I would have no food at all

I mean even the sit down restaurants I frequent are "open air" types

with the cook plainly in sight.

I agree with others though that all the food I eat is cooked then & there.

Not sitting in a pile. Except for deserts once in awhile

That said I may be lucky but in the couple of years we have lived here

I have never been sick after eating . Yet I come from the Food Safety capital of the world with so many

regs it is hard to open a restaurant there unless it is first a certified kitchen

Yet I was sick there after eating more times than I can remember

I think it had to do with food storage since there they buy in bulk food that has been dead for

who knows how long & stored supposedly safely.

At least here your starting from a better/fresher point I think.

Edited March 10, 2014 by mania