Earthships ! in Thailand?

[bermondburi]

Wondering how well these things would go down in Thailand. Anyone done anything like this or made their gaff from scratch with these kinds of materials. A lot of tires around in Thailand and a lot of bottles too.

http://www.realfarmacy.com/10-reasons-why-earthships-are-freakin-awesome/#cdRmGEB03VOMeVFO.01

[bunta71]

can do the same thing using empty rice bags doing it earth bag style

[wym]

This isn't any kind of new category of home/landscape design, Permaculture's been refining these ideas for decades and they weren't anything "new" then either, started with adaptations of traditional localized indigenous designs evolved over many centuries.

Just call it sustainable housing design.

Built a mud-brick passive solar place off the grid in the outback like this, 30+ years has held up very nicely, family there's constantly expressing how beautiful, cheap and functional it is to run.

Each site should have its own design to take advantage of the local conditions and of course the desires of the owner.

Best for the owner to live on site for a few years in temporary shelter before starting actual construction, letting the design evolve over time.

Of course your long-term perrenials, e.g. trees getting planted is the very first thing if you're not in a forest location.

Man was meant to live in a garden.

Edited March 12, 2014 by wym

[Seastallion]

I wonder if the majority of earthship designs are drawn with heat conservation in mind. If so, new designs with heat dissipation are called for.

[Naam]

I wonder if the majority of earthship designs are drawn with heat conservation in mind. If so, new designs with heat dissipation are called for.

you hit the nail on the head! the "earthship" as shown would be a stillborn baby in a tropical country.

[canopy]

Right, earthen walls are poorly suited to tropical climates because their great thermal mass absorbs heat by day and reflects this stored heat into the house by night. That doesn't stop people from making them and such people will play down the climate disadvantage and say to plant trees around them to keep these ovens from heating up too much. Earthen walls such as earthship, adobe, rammed earth, and cob are well suited for climates with hot days and cold nights like the SW United States. They are not the best choice for the tropics where you want to minimize the thermal mass / flywheel effect. Modern builds typically use AAC blocks to this end.

[Seastallion]

I saw an Australian Grand Designs episode where the design incorporated a huge tower-like galvanised steel (with food grade plastic lining) water tank. The tank was the central column of the house and clever ducting and design meant that during the heat of the day, air was drawn down the sides of the tank to circulate around the house, cooling it significantly, all by passive airflow by heat exchange and draft forcing.. If the earthship had something like this, it may be ok.

Come to that, what if one exterior wall (north facing) was a concrete (or stainless steel) water tank? Perhaps also with forced draft airflow?

The thing is, if you are going to go for an earthship, I think you need to not be precious about being 100% eco-friendly and adjust your design for maximum cooling which may entail a bit of steel or concrete.

[wym]

dense shade, multiple layers with lots of natural ventilation between, no direct sun striking structures; of course ideally plant-based to the outside, tall trees, then pergolas, then outside walls

well-ventilated, screened semi-outdoor living zones of lightweight materials, sited to catch prevailing breezes, most likely elevated

cooking, laundry, bathing & other zones with heat producing tech separate from main living areas

maybe (parts of) dwelling underground

artificially cooled - maybe even limited A/C - living zones very well insulated and ventilation well-controlled

otherwise heat-driven ventilation, source air cooled deep enough underground

if plenty of water, misting/evaporative cooling for inbound ventilation, but only on dry heat days

[seajae]

big problem in Thailand would be white ants, you would have to avoid certain soils and wood entirely in it. On top of this is the heat factor we have here, the days and nights are both hot so any insulation qualities in the design could cause it to be simply too hot to live in, you would need to have a heat dissipation set up rather than one to trap it. Double wall mud brick with a cavity or even a "bale" house would work but again the white ant problem would be pretty bad in a "bale" house(straw bales blocked up with metal rods holding them together then a coating all over to stop moisture etc from penetrating).

[bermondburi]

I wonder if the majority of earthship designs are drawn with heat conservation in mind. If so, new designs with heat dissipation are called for.

you hit the nail on the head! the "earthship" as shown would be a stillborn baby in a tropical country.

Actually a quick search last night and I came across different plans for different climates. Tropical was one of them.

http://earthship.com/a-look-at-the-models-of-earthships

[OxfordWill]

Not sure if this counts?

[canopy]

Actually a quick search last night and I came across different plans for different climates. Tropical was one of them.

It sounds like your mind is made up already but consider this. Someone could add a paragraph of how to make an igloo work in the tropics if they tried hard enough. The key point is to start by selecting the most appropriate material for your environment. Many modern builders have already wisened up to this and are shifting from heavy blocks and bricks to featherweight AAC which can perform even better than a cavity wall. Green builders need to catch up and also start selecting more appropriate materials for the tropics of which there are many options, but let there be no mistake lots of dirt is probably not going to be one of them. I am not saying you can't make it work as people have done it, just saying to work with the climate instead of against it. Then let things like ventilation and shading enhance the good qualities of your material instead of just making it more bearable.

[bermondburi]

Actually a quick search last night and I came across different plans for different climates. Tropical was one of them.

It sounds like your mind is made up already but consider this. Someone could add a paragraph of how to make an igloo work in the tropics if they tried hard enough. The key point is to start by selecting the most appropriate material for your environment. Many modern builders have already wisened up to this and are shifting from heavy blocks and bricks to featherweight AAC which can perform even better than a cavity wall. Green builders need to catch up and also start selecting more appropriate materials for the tropics of which there are many options, but let there be no mistake lots of dirt is probably not going to be one of them. I am not saying you can't make it work as people have done it, just saying to work with the climate instead of against it. Then let things like ventilation and shading enhance the good qualities of your material instead of just making it more bearable.

not really, I don't live in Thailand any more and we have a house there already, but I just thought it might make a good project as something to do on a spare rai. So, I was just curious really. It would be good to be totally power and water sufficient though. I'm sure there are many ways of doing it and this is just one of them.

[Naam]

I wonder if the majority of earthship designs are drawn with heat conservation in mind. If so, new designs with heat dissipation are called for.

you hit the nail on the head! the "earthship" as shown would be a stillborn baby in a tropical country.

Actually a quick search last night and I came across different plans for different climates. Tropical was one of them.

http://earthship.com/a-look-at-the-models-of-earthships

Customization of any kind on these models quickly brings the cost right back up. The following is a floor plan of the tropical model with outdoor spaces and the generic four seasons model with a double greenhouse. Both with bucket shower and bucket flush toilet.

brilliant! i like tropics with four seasons and my wife has asked the gardener whether he has a spare bucket.

[jacnl2000]

Not sure if this counts?

Isn't it more save to let the wind make a song than to let a song make more wind?

[CNXBKKMAN]

If your home is made with 1-2 foot of rammed earth tyre walls how hot are they going to heat up? The heat may never get through?

I have no experience of these buildings but isn't one of the benefits that the temperature stays uniform 24 hours a day due to thermal mass?

If you built one in Thailand I think you would minimize the greenhouse type huge windows that you see on the ones built in Europe or North America.

[wym]

You could have a full battleship's worth of thermal mass around your home and all that would do is ensure that once it did heat up - which of course it would - then the interior temperature would never go down when it got cooler outdoors.

Trick in a tropical climate is either ensuring your huge thermal mass is as cool as possible - deep underground?

Or constructing from light enough materials and insulating, combined with opening everything up at night and shutting it down in the daytime.

Preventing heat gain in the first place is critical in any case.

And if A/C is used, maximising its efficiency through the above.

Otherwise dependent on ventilation, and evaporative cooling - in dry heat only - if you can afford the water.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Do you have to go deep underground to find cool earth? If you rolled your lawn up and maybe it pulled up an inch of dirt with it would the soil underneath be hot? Dogs sometimes dig a shallow hole and lie in it to cool down. They don't dig very deep. I am still not convinced the sun during the day could heat a 2 foot thick rammed earth wall. The heat might not penetrate far enough before the days over and whatever did heat up cools during the night. . I have no experience of earth homes perhaps someone who has could answer.

[Morakot]

I wonder if the majority of earthship designs are drawn with heat conservation in mind. If so, new designs with heat dissipation are called for.

you hit the nail on the head! the "earthship" as shown would be a stillborn baby in a tropical country.

I agree -- these designs would create a nice furnace.

However, more conventional designs adapted for tropical climate would surely work. Here an example of a low cost earthbag round house, built in Thailand.

http://earthbagbuilding.com/projects/Oround.htm

Here a temple in Koh Phangan, Thailand. Apparently, the catenary dome is one of the largest of its kind in the world.

http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/projects/omdome.htm

Edited March 16, 2014 by Morakot

[Showbags]

We built a house from stone mostly...stone floors with ventilation underneath were incredibly cool.

Key is to keep the walls shaded also with large roof overhangs or even better, verandahs all around.....it will remain very very cool.

[wym]

Do you have to go deep underground to find cool earth? If you rolled your lawn up and maybe it pulled up an inch of dirt with it would the soil underneath be hot? Dogs sometimes dig a shallow hole and lie in it to cool down. They don't dig very deep. I am still not convinced the sun during the day could heat a 2 foot thick rammed earth wall. The heat might not penetrate far enough before the days over and whatever did heat up cools during the night. . I have no experience of earth homes perhaps someone who has could answer.

I have designed many and built several abobe houses, certified as a Permaculture Design Consultant.

Earth does have some insulation benefits, for example with sod-roof structures, these aren't actually dense or massive.

Dense massive earth just takes longer to heat up, and just as long to cool down, it evens out the temperatures but most importantly in cold climates, retains the heat generated from wood stoves etc and passive solar designs overnight.

Yes in a pretty-much perpetually hot climate you do need to get pretty deep under ground to avoid the heat gain problems of being at or near the surface with massive walls. Coober Pedy is a great example, if you go there you can rent underground hotel rooms, and fossicking for opals is a lot of fun.

[Seastallion]

Not sure if this counts?

Looks like a beheaded Teletubby